This is one point of view, Ted, and one that needs to be considered of
course. I think it is not accurate myself.
Another point of view is that Struts needs to come up to snuff in the
arena and is being left behind. Having half the community spend time
on a completely incompatible framework like JSF will ensure that it
won't recover. That is nother point of view.
Having half of the other half chase the patch of a chain-based
architecture launched off a template-method design won't help either.
That also is another point of view.
I suspect the result will be that Craig will get what he was aiming
for, the Struts name for JSF. If so, my hats are off to him for a
remarkable campaign. While, I am always willing to fight the good
fight, I have to admit that this one looks lost and that, since I am
not a JSF guy, my choices have been effectively narrowed to a
non-Struts future in my coding. This does not mean, of course, that
there is not a long period of weaning off Struts. Business moves
slower than developing ideas.
I am presently switching over to Spring, and will try to develop a
Struts-like architecture there. (I know there is a Struts plugin, but
I would like an up-to-date IoC, AOP, framework under a real Struts.)
I probably will be better off there anyway, since I am philosophically
much closer to what is going on there. As Ted keeps noting, this
community is tied a great deal to the projects they are working on and
really has no time to sit back and think things through before coding.
Code is what is master here, not thought. That is understandable.
I am sure, as people are always saying around here that there is a
niche for JSF. People who need tools will love it. Heck, there was a
niche for Windows, wasn't there? Maybe JSF will finally succeed.
Maybe not. But, it sure doesn't do what I want done. This sort of
solution works against what I think is the future, which is a smaller
group of highly educated, well-trained and efficient coders as opposed
to a large group of tool jockeys that really don't know what they are
working with when coding.
Good luck to you all. While my feet are going elsewhere, I certainly
will remain interested in the progress of this community.
Cheers, and I hope to have been of some assistance in clarifying
something for someone. Sorry that so many got their knickers in a
twist.
On 8/24/05, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Since the ANNOUNCEMENT thread is veering off-topic
> On 8/24/05, Matthias Wessendorf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ah...
> >
> > were did you read it ?!?
> >
> > > Rod Johnson and many others. But, that should be a start to
> > > think about, Dave.
>
> From the ASF's point of view, the only thing that matters is whether
> there are volunteers who are ready, willing, and able to create and
> maintain the software in the Apache Way. We're not a steering commitee
> trying to decide what's best for everyone. We're a bunch of engineers
> who want to share the software we're using with who other engineers
> who might want to use it.
>
> Since there are volunteers ready, willing, and able to create and
> maintain Shale in the Apache Way, the only question that remains is
> where to find more volunteers. The people actually working on Shale
> now seem to think that the Apache Struts project is a good place to
> find more volunteers. Since Shale is to JSF what Struts Classic is to
> JSP, the Struts PMC agreed the idea had merit, and we made Shale a
> subproject. Meanwhile, other volunteers continue to work on Struts
> Classic, unabated.
>
> Of course, at some point in time, the people actually working on Shale
> may decide that they could find more volunteers as a top-level
> project, or as subproject of another Apache TLP (like, say, Apache
> MyFaces), or somewhere else in cyberspace. The Shale volunteers might
> then choose to continue work in some other repository. Or they might
> decide to continue working here. But, the only people entitled to make
> that decision are the ones creating and maintaining the Shale
> codebase. The most the rest of can do is wish them godspeed.
>
> We're seeing a similar thing happening with Tiles today. Right now,
> volunteers are extracting Tiles into a separate subproject. Once that
> is done, the volunteers might decide to continue work under the Struts
> repository, or somewhere else. But, whatever they decide, the decision
> will be driven by the simple question: Where will we find other
> volunteers to help?
>
> -Ted
>
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--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~
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