[dev] surf-0.4
Good Morning! surf 0.4 is released. Changes in a nutshell - xproperties changed to reduce code complexity - user agent string is rfc compliant - removed user defined context menu - downloading is done by xterm+wget instead of surf itself - various small bug fixes and improvements. There are still some bugs in the queue. But there's no big showstopper atm so I delayed them to 0.5 Download: http://dl.suckless.org/surf/surf-0.4.tar.gz Website: http://surf.suckless.org/ regards Enno
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
[Disclaimer: I love OpenBSD] On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:26:03PM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: > Why is there software being developed for any BSD either? I have a > FreeBSD box, I wonder what the commands are. > > Grep is... Gnu grep! Gnu grep is an abomination! I used it on a big > file last November when I was still using Linux. I noticed it took a > seemingly unreasonable time, decided to try Plan 9's grep. I am not > kidding in the least when I say it was FOUR HUNDRED TIMES faster. To > be fair to Gnu in general it's just grep, Gnu sed was nearly 200 > times faster than grep at the same task, but that bug's only been > open for 5 years. What grep does your BSD use? OpenBSD does not use GNU grep. I'm not sure how it compares speed wise though. > diffutils - no horror stories I know of, but it's the same one linux > uses. OpenBSD has their own diff. > gcc... do I even need to begin? You want to do anything remotely > interesting and it can't generate the code correctly with any set of > options! Well, can't say much here. OpenBSD did just make the switch from GCC3 to GCC4 recently in -current, and I believe the main reason was for C++ support. Also note that OpenBSD is trying to phase out all C++ from the source tree (ex. see mandoc) so they can switch to using pcc. > What about the kernels? NetBSD - XML parser in the kernel! At least > the Linux kernel maintainers keep some of the crap out. FreeBSD... > not really heard much positive about it, and Stealth used to say it > was just "trying to be Linux" anyway. OpenBSD's hardware support > seems to be around the level of Plan 9's, but at least it's got gcc, > eh? Looking around for something to replace Linux at the end of last > year I seriously got a "why bother" feeling about all the BSDs. If hardware doesn't work in openbsd there's usually a good reason, like if a hardware vendor will not release documentation (with or without an NDA). I would rather run something which has a strict no-blob policy and find hardware which works with it then relying on hacks and blobs for bad hardware. > A little careful listening & my feeling became more than just "why > bother". "Cat went to _Berkley_ [not Gnu] and came back waving > flags." It's Berkley that took a good unix and started gluing cruft > to it, and if Gnu has attracted more hackers to glue rubbish onto > their stuff, so what? The attitude is still there, certainly in > FreeBSD and NetBSD, so what reason is there to believe they won't > mess up any future features they take from Plan 9? From what I hear > they already have screwed up union mounts. Union mounts are crucial > to Plan 9's design! >From cat(1): SEE ALSO head(1), less(1), more(1), pr(1), sh(1), tail(1), vis(1), setbuf(3) Rob Pike, UNIX Style, or cat -v Considered Harmful, USENIX Summer Conference Proceedings, 1983. Yeah, they recognize the problem. I think it's more there for historical reasons then because anyone likes it. If this counts as fanboyism I'll gladly take the label. :) OpenBSD sucks considerably less then any other unix I've tried. Josh Rickmar
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
Kurt H Maier dixit (2010-05-30, 19:38): > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 6:45 PM, hiro <23h...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > Ok, may I suggest we all go to bed now? And don't forget to charge > > your wireless devices... > > I refuse to read this message until you assure me it's utf-8 compliant It was, don't you *ever* read the headers :)? -- [a]
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 6:45 PM, hiro <23h...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Ok, may I suggest we all go to bed now? And don't forget to charge > your wireless devices... I refuse to read this message until you assure me it's utf-8 compliant -- # Kurt H Maier
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On 30 May 2010, at 23:45, hiro wrote: Ok, may I suggest we all go to bed now? And don't forget to charge your wireless devices... Aye, aye, I'm on my way there, lol. No wireless here, either. >_> -- Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it. -- Alan Perlis rc-httpd: http://eekee.is-a-geek.org/rc-httpd/
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
Ok, may I suggest we all go to bed now? And don't forget to charge your wireless devices...
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On 30 May 2010, at 23:24, Marvin Vek wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:26:03PM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: Thanks Kris. I was giving myself time to settle down before replying to Marvin, but it's not happening. Oh well, there was a big misunderstanding as i was on a rant not beeing able to make clear what the hell i did mean. I agree with the rest of your email following the above. Okay, that's something of a relief actually, being as I'm new here & all. ^^' Thanks for saying. scream "fanboy"? Or to put it another way, who's the stupid fanboy, the one who wants the original research, or the one who wants the messed up OS with a brain-damaged imitation of the research glued on? Second. With calling "fanboy" i was referring to people who shout something, react to something, or ask people to blindly follow their actions (who then do), without stating (or beeing able to) what they'd like to reach. Beeing annoyed by people doing so just before i replied here, i missed the whole point. -- Marvin Vek - #ifdef STUPIDLY_TRUST_BROKEN_PCMD_ENA_BIT linux-2.4.0-test2/drivers/ide/cmd640.c -- Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it. -- Alan Perlis rc-httpd: http://eekee.is-a-geek.org/rc-httpd/
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:26:03PM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: > Thanks Kris. I was giving myself time to settle down before replying > to Marvin, but it's not happening. Oh well, there was a big misunderstanding as i was on a rant not beeing able to make clear what the hell i did mean. I agree with the rest of your email following the above. > scream "fanboy"? Or to put it another way, who's the stupid fanboy, > the one who wants the original research, or the one who wants the > messed up OS with a brain-damaged imitation of the research glued on? Second. With calling "fanboy" i was referring to people who shout something, react to something, or ask people to blindly follow their actions (who then do), without stating (or beeing able to) what they'd like to reach. Beeing annoyed by people doing so just before i replied here, i missed the whole point. -- Marvin Vek - #ifdef STUPIDLY_TRUST_BROKEN_PCMD_ENA_BIT linux-2.4.0-test2/drivers/ide/cmd640.c
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 09:20:27PM +, hiro wrote: > And your biggest reason of using that linux term is ncurses support, right? > > Oh, I love people most when they talk about ignorance. > > The idea of plan 9 is, that it's not possible to implement the > underlying ideas cleanly on older systems. Oh i love it when people talk crap all the time. Topquoting is a special skill too i guess. "Ignorance is the state in which one lacks knowledge, is unaware of something or chooses to subjectively ignore information." The "chooses to subjectively ignore information" fits well to your response. Somehow, you fail to understand it, or i didn't state what i wanted to state obviously or clearly enough, as i have nothing against Plan9 nor Plan9 from User Space, in fact i love it, and the idea. The reason for my rant, was people shouting "it's not plan9 enough" which doesn't mean anything at all, or telling other people Linux is complete crap (even when they develop applications for the OS). I have the feeling however, that at this point we're all just shouting something, without beeing on the same line what we're talking about. So i suggest we drop it. -- Marvin Vek - printk(CARDNAME": Bad Craziness - sent packet while busy. " ); linux-2.6.6/drivers/net/smc9194.c
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:26:03PM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: what about the kernels? NetBSD - XML parser in the kernel! At least the Linux kernel maintainers keep some of the crap out. FreeBSD... not really heard much positive about it, and Stealth used to say it was just "trying to be Linux" anyway. OpenBSD's hardware support seems to be around the level of Plan 9's, but at least it's got gcc, eh? Looking around for something to replace Linux at the end of last year I seriously got a "why bother" feeling about all the BSDs. The kernel aside, the BSD userland is actually a lot nicer than the GNU userland. So is the libc, by a wide margin (although I'm sure Ulrich Drepper would throw a shit fit at that pronouncement). There's a lot of GNU cruft thrown in, sadly, but most of it is pure BSD, and is orders of magnitude simpler than the GNU equivalent. None of the standard utilities use or need getopt_long, for one thing. They don't use info pages. The man pages can actually generally be read in one sitting. Then there's the init system, which is simple and clean, and matched by very few linux distros (and even then, they don't do as well). As for hardware support, it varies. OpenBSD, as I understand it, has the best network card support of the lot (which counts for a lot on a server). Linux has the best video card support (because manufacturers happen to care about it for the time being). NetBSD runs on toasters. When it comes to laptops, Linux wins hands down. A little careful listening & my feeling became more than just "why bother". "Cat went to _Berkley_ [not Gnu] and came back waving flags." It's Berkley that took a good unix and started gluing cruft to it, and if Gnu has attracted more hackers to glue rubbish onto their stuff, so what? The attitude is still there, certainly in FreeBSD and NetBSD, so what reason is there to believe they won't mess up any future features they take from Plan 9? From what I hear they already have screwed up union mounts. Union mounts are crucial to Plan 9's design! Even so, GNU is the primary culprit now, not the BSDs. As for union mounts, FreeBSD's union mounts are not the same thing as Plan 9's and they weren't meant to be. There are a few servers on Plan 9 to provide BSD-like deep union mounts, and they're widely used. I'm reminded of Gnome, which takes a few principles from Apple and utterly misapplies them, with a result I found far less usable than Windows 98. Amen. -- Kris Maglione What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist. --Salman Rushdie
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On 30 May 2010, at 18:32, Marvin Vek wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 01:22:01PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 07:01:11PM +0200, Marvin Vek wrote: Iirc: you're not using that ugly, bloated, badly implemented Linux or BSD then, right? Cause that would be weird! Loving good tools and implementations is one thing, coping with problems or improving situations to write decent alternatives is another. Fanboyism and joining mailinglists just to say what they use is shit and you've got it all better is imho uncalled for. I could be wrong, but, isn't that the whole point of this list? Thanks Kris. I was giving myself time to settle down before replying to Marvin, but it's not happening. Not afaik. Why is there software beeing developed for Linux? Why aren't we all on Plan9 and forget about that hideous OS? Again, if i understand it correctly, the idea is to learn from Plan9, implement it's idea's cause they're good, and do have decent alternatives. The fanboyism is getting a bit on my nerves. Why is there software being developed for any BSD either? I have a FreeBSD box, I wonder what the commands are. Grep is... Gnu grep! Gnu grep is an abomination! I used it on a big file last November when I was still using Linux. I noticed it took a seemingly unreasonable time, decided to try Plan 9's grep. I am not kidding in the least when I say it was FOUR HUNDRED TIMES faster. To be fair to Gnu in general it's just grep, Gnu sed was nearly 200 times faster than grep at the same task, but that bug's only been open for 5 years. What grep does your BSD use? diffutils - no horror stories I know of, but it's the same one linux uses. gcc... do I even need to begin? You want to do anything remotely interesting and it can't generate the code correctly with any set of options! What about the kernels? NetBSD - XML parser in the kernel! At least the Linux kernel maintainers keep some of the crap out. FreeBSD... not really heard much positive about it, and Stealth used to say it was just "trying to be Linux" anyway. OpenBSD's hardware support seems to be around the level of Plan 9's, but at least it's got gcc, eh? Looking around for something to replace Linux at the end of last year I seriously got a "why bother" feeling about all the BSDs. A little careful listening & my feeling became more than just "why bother". "Cat went to _Berkley_ [not Gnu] and came back waving flags." It's Berkley that took a good unix and started gluing cruft to it, and if Gnu has attracted more hackers to glue rubbish onto their stuff, so what? The attitude is still there, certainly in FreeBSD and NetBSD, so what reason is there to believe they won't mess up any future features they take from Plan 9? From what I hear they already have screwed up union mounts. Union mounts are crucial to Plan 9's design! I'm reminded of Gnome, which takes a few principles from Apple and utterly misapplies them, with a result I found far less usable than Windows 98. Ugh, I hate typing all this negative stuff but why, when anyone proposes something really worthwhile, does someone always have to scream "fanboy"? Or to put it another way, who's the stupid fanboy, the one who wants the original research, or the one who wants the messed up OS with a brain-damaged imitation of the research glued on? For the sake of drivers we're stuck with messed-up kernels, but what's keeping _almost_ _everyone_ using the rest of the crud? If I myself haven't produced any better solutions yet, it's because I've only just begun. I have a lot to learn, and a lot of years to regret wasting time on rubbish that's only pretending to be clever. That rubbish wasn't BSD, but like I said, I've no reason to believe the BSDs are seriously better. -- Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it. -- Alan Perlis rc-httpd: http://eekee.is-a-geek.org/rc-httpd/
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
And your biggest reason of using that linux term is ncurses support, right? Oh, I love people most when they talk about ignorance. The idea of plan 9 is, that it's not possible to implement the underlying ideas cleanly on older systems. On 5/30/10, Marvin Vek wrote: > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 01:22:01PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote: >> On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 07:01:11PM +0200, Marvin Vek wrote: >> >Iirc: you're not using that ugly, bloated, badly implemented Linux or >> >BSD then, right? Cause that would be weird! >> > >> >Loving good tools and implementations is one thing, coping with problems >> >or improving situations to write decent alternatives is another. >> > >> >Fanboyism and joining mailinglists just to say what they use is shit and >> >you've got it all better is imho uncalled for. >> >> I could be wrong, but, isn't that the whole point of this list? > > Not afaik. Why is there software beeing developed for Linux? Why aren't > we all on Plan9 and forget about that hideous OS? Again, if i understand > it correctly, the idea is to learn from Plan9, implement it's idea's > cause they're good, and do have decent alternatives. The fanboyism is > getting a bit on my nerves. > > -- > Marvin Vek > - > printk(KERN_WARNING MYNAM ": (bad VooDoo) > "); > linux-2.6.6/drivers/message/fusion/mptctl.c > >
Re: [dev] Re: [wmii]clarifications on python script usage
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:01:50PM +0200, pascal wrote:
Le Sun, 30 May 2010 16:12:08 -0400
Kris Maglione a écrit:
Why would you want any kind of locale-specific time? Here's what
I do:
@defmonitor(colors=wmii['focuscolors'], name='time')
def s9time(self):
return time.strftime('%H:%M:%S %Z')
@defmonitor(interval=60)
def s9date(self):
return time.strftime('%a, %d %b')
It's a detail but I prefer to read for example "Dim, 30 Mai"
instead of "Sun, 30 May".
Interesting. I don't especially care what language it's in, so
long as I can read it.
--
Kris Maglione
If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be
the process of putting them in.
--Edsger W. Dijkstra
[dev] Re: [wmii]clarifications on python script usage
Le Sun, 30 May 2010 16:12:08 -0400
Kris Maglione a écrit:
> I'm getting confused trying to read the above, so I'll just
> explain from the begining.
Yes, I was confused myself, hehe.
> You don't want to copy wmiirc.py to wmiirc_local.py. The whole
> point of wmiirc_local.py is that it gets called *in addion to*
> wmiirc.py. So if you copy the former to the latter, you just
> execute it twice (and therefore you execute witray twice, as
> well). The witray error is because, for the moment, witray just
> gives up rathe than taking over for another system tray. It may
> change in the future.
>
> As for copying files from /etc/wmii-hg, you almost certainly
> don't want to do that. Instead, run wmii as ‘wmii -r
> python/wmiirc’ and it will run /etc/wmii-hg/python/wmiirc for
> you. Any customization you want to do, do in
> ~/.wmii-hg/wmiirc_local.py or
> ~/.wmii-hg/plugins/any_filename_you_want.py. Only in the event
> that you can't manage your customizations in wmiirc_local.py
> should you copy /etc/wmii-hg/python/wmiirc.py to
> ~/.wmii-hg/wmiirc.py and edit it. But don't copy *any* other
> files.
>
> I hope the above wasn't too confusing. If you want an example,
> my wmiirc_local.py is attached.
>
Thanks for the explanations, it's much clearer now.
> Why would you want any kind of locale-specific time? Here's what
> I do:
>
> @defmonitoR(colors=wmii['focuscolors'], name='time')
> def s9time(self):
> return time.strftime('%H:%M:%S %Z')
> @defmonitor(interval=60)
> def s9date(self):
> return time.strftime('%a, %d %b')
>
It's a detail but I prefer to read for example "Dim, 30 Mai"
instead of "Sun, 30 May".
Pascal
Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On 30 May 2010 20:01, Antoni Grzymala wrote: > Anselm R Garbe dixit (2010-05-30, 19:29): > >> On 30 May 2010 00:58, Ilya Ilembitov wrote: >> >> well I'm on openbsd. ifconfig is used for everything. >> > >> > Well, that changes pretty much everything. OpenBSD's ifconfig is probably >> > a unique thing among other BSDs (AFAIK) and is nothing like Linux's >> > ifconfig. And it's much simpler to use than iwconfig+wpa_supplicant in >> > Linux. However, there are some types of encryption OpenBSD can't handle >> > yet (although they are not as widespread as WPA/WPA2+TKIP/PSK). >> > >> > Honestly, because of things like that I would gladly switch to OpenBSD >> > (since it supports all of my laptop's hardware and has all the software I >> > need). But the fact that currently it doesn't have UTF-8 is really >> > stopping me from doing so. >> >> OpenBSD has excellent support of the 7bit ascii subset of UTF-8. What >> else would you *really* need? >> >> For my German conversations I'm in favor to rewrite German umlauts >> like so: ae/Ae oe/Oe ue/Ue and sz and be still UTF8 compliant, >> regardless the platform in use. >> >> I understand that for cyrillic this would be a problem though. >> Nevertheless you could live with KOI8 and use icu's uconv for >> converting that stuff to UTF8 if you need to interchange with UTF8 >> world. > > And, скажы меня, what if I need to mix cyryllic, some unusual character > or two like »λ«, call upon Janáček's surname, mention a band called > Sigur Rós, their track „Suð Í Eyrum” and such? I was referring to mixing KOI8 which supports mixing latin and cyrillic glyphs already as is. If you want to mix cyrillic, greek and chinese I agree, you got a problem there. But I doubt this would be such a usual use case, certainly not for a geek using openbsd for fun I'd say ;) Otherwise install p9p or Linux or FreeBSD... --Anselm
Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 09:59:02PM +0200, Antoni Grzymala wrote: > May I suggest, that it would much simpler for the world to actually fix > a few libs in a few conservative OS'es? > > There's nothing that makes the notion of one-byte-per-character somewhat > universal. Just an arbitrary desision Absolutely. > Why not two characters or four? character == byte, one entity less.
Re: [dev] [wmii]clarifications on python script usage
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 09:52:35PM +0200, pascal wrote:
Hi again
I'm using the python script and I wonder if I do it correctly. I copied the
content of /etc/wmii-hg/python into ~/.wmii-hg and moved wmiirc.py to
wmiirc_local.py. The thing is it seems the script in /etc/wmii-hg is read first
because wmii is starting with the default appearance (for less than one second),
and I get the message "witray: fatal: another system tray is already running",
probably due to the fact that it's also called from the wmiirc_local.py.
So I tried to only leave my modifications in the wmiirc_local.py along with the
import statements, but then some of my modifications aren't effective, for
example it keeps using xterm in place of urxvtc, and my theme is not applied
all at once.
I'm getting confused trying to read the above, so I'll just
explain from the begining.
You don't want to copy wmiirc.py to wmiirc_local.py. The whole
point of wmiirc_local.py is that it gets called *in addion to*
wmiirc.py. So if you copy the former to the latter, you just
execute it twice (and therefore you execute witray twice, as
well). The witray error is because, for the moment, witray just
gives up rathe than taking over for another system tray. It may
change in the future.
As for copying files from /etc/wmii-hg, you almost certainly
don't want to do that. Instead, run wmii as ‘wmii -r
python/wmiirc’ and it will run /etc/wmii-hg/python/wmiirc for
you. Any customization you want to do, do in
~/.wmii-hg/wmiirc_local.py or
~/.wmii-hg/plugins/any_filename_you_want.py. Only in the event
that you can't manage your customizations in wmiirc_local.py
should you copy /etc/wmii-hg/python/wmiirc.py to
~/.wmii-hg/wmiirc.py and edit it. But don't copy *any* other
files.
I hope the above wasn't too confusing. If you want an example,
my wmiirc_local.py is attached.
And then a detail, to get the time displayed in my locale I add these two lines
in ~/.wmii-hg/wmiirc :
import locale
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")
I wonder if that's the right place to put it, and if it could be included in
the default configuration?
Why would you want any kind of locale-specific time? Here's what
I do:
@defmonitoR(colors=wmii['focuscolors'], name='time')
def s9time(self):
return time.strftime('%H:%M:%S %Z')
@defmonitor(interval=60)
def s9date(self):
return time.strftime('%a, %d %b')
--
Kris Maglione
Oh, come *on*. Revelation was a mushroom dream that belonged in the
Apocrypha. The New Testament is basically about what happened when
God got religion.
--Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett
# coding=UTF-8
import operator
import os
import re
import signal
import subprocess
import sys
from threading import Thread
import time
import traceback
sys.path.append(os.environ['HOME'] + '/lib/python')
import alsaaudio
import pygmi
from pygmi import *
import wmiirc
from wmiirc import notice, tags
time.tzset()
zip = '17402'
zip = '34450'
temp_min = 69
temp_max = 91
wmiirc.terminal = 'wmiir', 'setsid', 'term'
wmii['font'] = 'xft:drift:pixelsize=12'
from wmiirc import Actions
events.bind({
'Eval': lambda args: Actions.eval_(args)
});
wmii.tagrules = (
(r'^::.*VLC','sel+~'),
(r'^huludesktop:','tv'),
(r'^::', 'orphans'),
(r'^quodlibet:', 'music'),
(r'^transmission:', 'bt'),
(r'^amarok:', 'music'),
(r'^Transmission:', 'torrent'),
(r'^[Gg]imp','gimp'),
(r'^[Ii]nkscape','inkscape'),
(r'XMMS','~'), # No, I don't use this, but I do test it. :(
(r'VLC|MPlayer', '~'),
(r'^pinentry', '~'),
(r'^xmag', '~'),
(r'^claws-mail:', 'mail'),
(r'^[^:]+:(Minefield|Namoroka):(Page Info|Firefox Preferences|Tab Mix Plus Options|Add-ons)$', '~+www'),
(r'^[^:]+:(Minefield|Namoroka):', 'www'),
(r'^[^:]*:OpenOffice.org', 'OOo'),
(r'^vinagre:Vinagre:', 'vnc'),
)
def toggle_mute():
mixer = alsaaudio.Mixer()
if mixer.getmute()[0]:
mixer.setmute(0)
notice.write('Unmute')
else:
mixer.setmute(1)
notice.write('Mute')
if False:
cmd = 'unmute'
if '[on]' in call('amixer', 'get', 'Master'):
cmd = 'mute'
call('amixer', 'set', 'Master', cmd)
notice.write(cmd.capitalize())
def adj_mixer(delta, mod=None):
import mixer
if mod is not None:
mixer.mod += 1
if mixer.mod % mod:
return
vol = mixer.getlevel('vol')
vol = vol - vol % abs(delta) + delta
vol = min(100, max(0, vol))
mixer.setlevel('vol', vol)
alsaaudio.Mixer('PCM').setvolume(100)
nbar = 20
bar = '-' * (nbar - 1) + '|'
notice.write('[% -*s] %3d%%' % (nbar, bar[nbar-nbar*vol/100:], vol))
keys.bind('main', {
'dead_horn': lambda k: call('sudo', 'hibernate', '--force'),
'XF86AudioMute': lambda k: toggle_mute(),
'%(mod)s-F6': lambda k: call('stfo', background=True),
'%(mod)s-KP_Add': lambda k: adj_mixer(+5),
'%(mod)s-KP_Subtract
Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
Dmitry Maluka dixit (2010-05-30, 22:30): > That's gone. We (IT people) surrendered the initiative to the world > around, though we could push that technical limitation through to force > the world to switch to a simple small unified alphabet. May I suggest, that it would much simpler for the world to actually fix a few libs in a few conservative OS'es? There's nothing that makes the notion of one-byte-per-character somewhat universal. Just an arbitrary desision that you want to stick to because of the way computing history has developed. Why not two characters or four? Regards, -- [a]
[dev] [wmii]clarifications on python script usage
Hi again I'm using the python script and I wonder if I do it correctly. I copied the content of /etc/wmii-hg/python into ~/.wmii-hg and moved wmiirc.py to wmiirc_local.py. The thing is it seems the script in /etc/wmii-hg is read first because wmii is starting with the default appearance (for less than one second), and I get the message "witray: fatal: another system tray is already running", probably due to the fact that it's also called from the wmiirc_local.py. So I tried to only leave my modifications in the wmiirc_local.py along with the import statements, but then some of my modifications aren't effective, for example it keeps using xterm in place of urxvtc, and my theme is not applied all at once. And then a detail, to get the time displayed in my locale I add these two lines in ~/.wmii-hg/wmiirc : import locale locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "") I wonder if that's the right place to put it, and if it could be included in the default configuration? Regards, pascal
Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
Kurt H Maier dixit (2010-05-30, 15:27): > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Antoni Grzymala wrote: > > And, скажы меня, what if I need to mix cyryllic, some unusual character > > or two like »λ«, > > you never "need" to do this > > > call upon Janáček's surname, mention a band called > > Sigur Rós, their track „Suð Í Eyrum” and such? > > Everyone will know what you mean when you type "Janacek", "Sigur Ros", > and "Suo I Eyrum". > > I can *almost* understand wanting to switch between cyrillic and > ascii, but bringing sigur ros into it is just stupid. They invented a > language. If they want my computer to support the idiocy they pass > off as 'art,' they can damn well update my console drivers. > > > Not seeing further than the tip of one's nose and *bending reality* to > > the limitations of some dinosaur era string processing crap library is > > so pathetic... > > Not using ASCII places you firmly in the 'dinosaur era.' You can > advocate interoperability with your niche shit all you want, but don't > start assaulting other people for not wanting to waste time decoding > it. My system supports UTF-8, but honestly it gains me nothing. If it does, then what's the noise about? OK, forget the accents for a moment, and enjoy the *primitive* misspellings of various non-pure-ascii (ie. most European) languages and by the shape of this conversation I'm pretty sure you'll be immune to the notion that some words change or lose (yes, up to practical undecipherability) their meaning having been dumbed down to ASCII. I'm quite curious too what's *almost* in understanding the switching between latin cyryllic (or other scripts for that matter)? I don't advocate interoperability (on the contrary, I feel the 7-bitters do), I advocate proper ortographic use of human languages for precise communicating between people, especially that there are technical means available. Guess why was the UTF-8 patch to line editing in dmenu so welcome yesterday? Best, -- [a]
Re: [dev] dwm-5.8.1 / dmenu-4.1.1
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 09:05:13PM +0200, ilf wrote: > On 05-30 11:12, David DEMELIER wrote: > >>Please test hg tip and let me know any issues. > >Do you remember the mplayer scaling issue that we talked about on > >IRC? The issue is still here even in hg tip. > > I don't know which issue you were talking about, but for me mplayer > now *always* is fulscreen. I cannot resize it via 'f' or with the > mouse. > > But flash fullscreen works. :) Problem I noticed in tip with mplayer: if I have a window full screen and switch tags (MOD-Tab twice) or switch on and off the tag, if the video is a different aspect ratio then my monitor, then the video is still in "fullscreen mode" but is shoved over to the left side of the screen.
Re: [dev] dwm-5.8.1 / dmenu-4.1.1
Hi... my mplayer (SVN-r31147-4.5.0) works fine and so does flash in fullscreen mode. cengiz On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 9:05 PM, ilf wrote: > On 05-30 11:12, David DEMELIER wrote: > >> Please test hg tip and let me know any issues. >>> >> Do you remember the mplayer scaling issue that we talked about on IRC? The >> issue is still here even in hg tip. >> > > I don't know which issue you were talking about, but for me mplayer now > *always* is fulscreen. I cannot resize it via 'f' or with the mouse. > > But flash fullscreen works. :) > > -- > ilf@jabber.berlin.ccc.de > > Über 80 Millionen Deutsche benutzen keine Konsole. Klick dich nicht weg! >-- Eine Initiative des Bundesamtes für Tastaturbenutzung > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > iEYEARECAAYFAkwCtugACgkQGf7coofArsxx9gCfX88sFU7j6sjkz+w5a2yeKAjP > CBIAniKZdS8kzqWqxa0y+W012xAFay8a > =LuXY > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > >
Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 07:29:34PM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: > For my German conversations I'm in favor to rewrite German umlauts > like so: ae/Ae oe/Oe ue/Ue and sz and be still UTF8 compliant, > regardless the platform in use. > > I understand that for cyrillic this would be a problem though. > Nevertheless you could live with KOI8 and use icu's uconv for > converting that stuff to UTF8 if you need to interchange with UTF8 > world. No problem :) http://centrolit.kulichki.com/centrolit/rl/ http://lj.rossia.org/users/tiphareth/1271530.html?thread=36759274#t36759274 http://lj.rossia.org/users/tiphareth/786569.html?thread=37375369#t37375369 Before KOI8 invention, we used transliteration a lot. Generally, ASCII is totally enough for communications between people. I would be happy with good ol' "1 character == 1 byte" principle. Simplicity, small charset, many problems are solved automatically... That's gone. We (IT people) surrendered the initiative to the world around, though we could push that technical limitation through to force the world to switch to a simple small unified alphabet.
Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Antoni Grzymala wrote: > And, скажы меня, what if I need to mix cyryllic, some unusual character > or two like »λ«, you never "need" to do this > call upon Janáček's surname, mention a band called > Sigur Rós, their track „Suð Í Eyrum” and such? Everyone will know what you mean when you type "Janacek", "Sigur Ros", and "Suo I Eyrum". I can *almost* understand wanting to switch between cyrillic and ascii, but bringing sigur ros into it is just stupid. They invented a language. If they want my computer to support the idiocy they pass off as 'art,' they can damn well update my console drivers. > Not seeing further than the tip of one's nose and *bending reality* to > the limitations of some dinosaur era string processing crap library is > so pathetic... Not using ASCII places you firmly in the 'dinosaur era.' You can advocate interoperability with your niche shit all you want, but don't start assaulting other people for not wanting to waste time decoding it. My system supports UTF-8, but honestly it gains me nothing. -- # Kurt H Maier
Re: [dev] fixed width css
* pancake [2010-05-30 19:00]:
> It's great for reading text without getting affected by zoom. the
> lines get wrapped.
>
> textarea,body,td,tr,p,select,option,font,pre {
> width:99% !important;
> }
>
With the latter, don't you run into more problems (e.g. neighbouring TDs of
size 99% sound strange to me) than you would with just using the
only-text-zoom? It does provide the same behaviour by saving some css
headacke.
cheers,
--
stanio_
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
* Anselm R Garbe [2010-05-30 20:29]: > For my German conversations I'm in favor to rewrite German umlauts > like so: ae/Ae oe/Oe ue/Ue and sz and be still UTF8 compliant, > regardless the platform in use. I understand if someone hates me for burning their eyes with that, but I must admit I switched to the same behaviour years ago when I decided all that is not worth using 3 keyboard layouts all the time. > I understand that for cyrillic this would be a problem though. > Nevertheless you could live with KOI8 and use icu's uconv for > converting that stuff to UTF8 if you need to interchange with UTF8 > world. You "only" need to come up with a way to split your writings in disjoint chunks to feed into iconv. In other words: your suggestion won't work as long as you need to use more than one encoding at a time (e.g. in one conversation). And this is pretty common. cheers, -- stanio_
Re: [dev] dwm-5.8.1 / dmenu-4.1.1
On 05-30 11:12, David DEMELIER wrote: Please test hg tip and let me know any issues. Do you remember the mplayer scaling issue that we talked about on IRC? The issue is still here even in hg tip. I don't know which issue you were talking about, but for me mplayer now *always* is fulscreen. I cannot resize it via 'f' or with the mouse. But flash fullscreen works. :) -- ilf@jabber.berlin.ccc.de Über 80 Millionen Deutsche benutzen keine Konsole. Klick dich nicht weg! -- Eine Initiative des Bundesamtes für Tastaturbenutzung signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
Anselm R Garbe dixit (2010-05-30, 19:29): > On 30 May 2010 00:58, Ilya Ilembitov wrote: > >> well I'm on openbsd. ifconfig is used for everything. > > > > Well, that changes pretty much everything. OpenBSD's ifconfig is probably a > > unique thing among other BSDs (AFAIK) and is nothing like Linux's ifconfig. > > And it's much simpler to use than iwconfig+wpa_supplicant in Linux. > > However, there are some types of encryption OpenBSD can't handle yet > > (although they are not as widespread as WPA/WPA2+TKIP/PSK). > > > > Honestly, because of things like that I would gladly switch to OpenBSD > > (since it supports all of my laptop's hardware and has all the software I > > need). But the fact that currently it doesn't have UTF-8 is really stopping > > me from doing so. > > OpenBSD has excellent support of the 7bit ascii subset of UTF-8. What > else would you *really* need? > > For my German conversations I'm in favor to rewrite German umlauts > like so: ae/Ae oe/Oe ue/Ue and sz and be still UTF8 compliant, > regardless the platform in use. > > I understand that for cyrillic this would be a problem though. > Nevertheless you could live with KOI8 and use icu's uconv for > converting that stuff to UTF8 if you need to interchange with UTF8 > world. And, скажы меня, what if I need to mix cyryllic, some unusual character or two like »λ«, call upon Janáček's surname, mention a band called Sigur Rós, their track „Suð Í Eyrum” and such? Not seeing further than the tip of one's nose and *bending reality* to the limitations of some dinosaur era string processing crap library is so pathetic... -- [a]
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
[2010-05-30 19:29] Anselm R Garbe > On 30 May 2010 00:58, Ilya Ilembitov wrote: > > > > Honestly, because of things like that I would gladly switch to > > OpenBSD (since it supports all of my laptop's hardware and has all > > the software I need). But the fact that currently it doesn't have > > UTF-8 is really stopping mefrom doing so. > > OpenBSD has excellent support of the 7bit ascii subset of UTF-8. What > else would you *really* need? Well said. :-) meillo
Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On 30 May 2010 00:58, Ilya Ilembitov wrote: >> well I'm on openbsd. ifconfig is used for everything. > > Well, that changes pretty much everything. OpenBSD's ifconfig is probably a > unique thing among other BSDs (AFAIK) and is nothing like Linux's ifconfig. > And it's much simpler to use than iwconfig+wpa_supplicant in Linux. However, > there are some types of encryption OpenBSD can't handle yet (although they > are not as widespread as WPA/WPA2+TKIP/PSK). > > Honestly, because of things like that I would gladly switch to OpenBSD (since > it supports all of my laptop's hardware and has all the software I need). But > the fact that currently it doesn't have UTF-8 is really stopping me from > doing so. OpenBSD has excellent support of the 7bit ascii subset of UTF-8. What else would you *really* need? For my German conversations I'm in favor to rewrite German umlauts like so: ae/Ae oe/Oe ue/Ue and sz and be still UTF8 compliant, regardless the platform in use. I understand that for cyrillic this would be a problem though. Nevertheless you could live with KOI8 and use icu's uconv for converting that stuff to UTF8 if you need to interchange with UTF8 world. Cheers, Anselm
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 07:37:47PM +0200, Uriel wrote: > Your blatant ignorance is getting a bi ton my nerves. Do you even know > what Plan 9 from User Space is and for what systems it is available? Which is one of the things i'm talking about, how's that ignorance. -- Marvin Vek - if (user_specified) /* Didn't work, but the user is convinced this is the * place. */ linux-2.4.0-test2/drivers/parport/parport_pc.c
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Marvin Vek wrote: > Not afaik. Why is there software beeing developed for Linux? Why aren't > we all on Plan9 and forget about that hideous OS? Again, if i understand > it correctly, the idea is to learn from Plan9, implement it's idea's > cause they're good, and do have decent alternatives. The fanboyism is > getting a bit on my nerves. Your blatant ignorance is getting a bi ton my nerves. Do you even know what Plan 9 from User Space is and for what systems it is available? uriel
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 01:22:01PM -0400, Kris Maglione wrote: > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 07:01:11PM +0200, Marvin Vek wrote: > >Iirc: you're not using that ugly, bloated, badly implemented Linux or > >BSD then, right? Cause that would be weird! > > > >Loving good tools and implementations is one thing, coping with problems > >or improving situations to write decent alternatives is another. > > > >Fanboyism and joining mailinglists just to say what they use is shit and > >you've got it all better is imho uncalled for. > > I could be wrong, but, isn't that the whole point of this list? Not afaik. Why is there software beeing developed for Linux? Why aren't we all on Plan9 and forget about that hideous OS? Again, if i understand it correctly, the idea is to learn from Plan9, implement it's idea's cause they're good, and do have decent alternatives. The fanboyism is getting a bit on my nerves. -- Marvin Vek - printk(KERN_WARNING MYNAM ": (bad VooDoo) "); linux-2.6.6/drivers/message/fusion/mptctl.c
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 07:01:11PM +0200, Marvin Vek wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 05:47:45PM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: Granted, none of that's any help when you just want the tools you're familiar with, but I've got to the stage where I'll throw away any software that gets in my way, no matter how 'standard' it is. Iirc: you're not using that ugly, bloated, badly implemented Linux or BSD then, right? Cause that would be weird! Loving good tools and implementations is one thing, coping with problems or improving situations to write decent alternatives is another. Fanboyism and joining mailinglists just to say what they use is shit and you've got it all better is imho uncalled for. I could be wrong, but, isn't that the whole point of this list? -- Kris Maglione He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. --Albert Einstein
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 05:47:45PM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
> Granted, none of that's any help when you just want the tools you're
> familiar with, but I've got to the stage where I'll throw away any
> software that gets in my way, no matter how 'standard' it is.
Iirc: you're not using that ugly, bloated, badly implemented Linux or
BSD then, right? Cause that would be weird!
Loving good tools and implementations is one thing, coping with problems
or improving situations to write decent alternatives is another.
Fanboyism and joining mailinglists just to say what they use is shit and
you've got it all better is imho uncalled for.
--
Marvin Vek
-
panic("mother...");
linux-2.2.16/drivers/block/cpqarray.c
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 05:47:45PM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: On 30 May 2010, at 17:16, Kris Maglione wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 06:09:02PM +0200, Uriel wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Kris Maglione wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:36:44AM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote: FreeBSD doesn't support UTF-8 in the console. It only does UTF-8 in X11. Well, the point is that it does UTF-8 in libc, which is always the real issue. Uh! No, libc has the wchar abomination, which should *never* be used. The issue is having decent tools to work with text that support UTF-8 clearly and efficiently, and Plan 9 from User Space provides by far the best solution for this, even on Linux. You're funny. The existence and prevalent use of an interface does not necessarily indicate that interface is a good one. wchar() is made to graft utf8 onto systems which have their roots in the 1970s. Some operating system research has been done since, not much, but some, and Plan 9 is the product of some of that research. Well, that's a very specific response to a very general "You're funny". All that was meant was, well, he's funny. But if you want to get into that, first of all, wchar_t is almost identical in purpose and implementation to Plan 9's Rune. It doesn't even have any appreciable relation to the locale charset. It's always a 16-32 bit unicode codepoint, regardless of the locale encoding. As for the rest of the encoding issues, they're tied to an encoding-agnostic ctype, string, and stdio library. Those bits of the library handle conversion to wchars, just like Plan 9's utf and fmt libraries handle conversion to Runes. The only difference is that you need to treat char* strings as having an opaque encoding with arbitrary character boundaries. Yes, it's more complicated than Plan 9, along with slower and less convenient. The only thing it really has going for it is that it allows certain nationalities to, by and large, use more compact encodings for their languages, which probably causes more trouble than it's worth when it comes to text interchange. None of which has anything to do with the fact that uriel is funny. -- Kris Maglione Insane people are always sure that they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy. --Nora Ephron
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 06:34:45PM +0200, Marvin Vek wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:19:09AM -0600, anthony wrote: Setting "XTerm*locale: utf8" has worked well enough for me, though it's no help for console support. I find that OpenBSD has adequate (though imperfect) Unicode support; the major problem I have with it is that the compose key only supports ISO8859 characters... Now we're on the BSD subject, any knowledge on how well it's implemented in FreeBSD in comparison to OpenBSD? I can't speak for OpenBSD, but FreeBSD's unicode support is very good. It was a major effort for RELENG_5, and it's gotten better since. I'm surprised that the compose key would only support 8859-1 characters, though. As I understand it, Xorg's locale information is independent from system locale info. -- Kris Maglione If you want to go somewhere, goto is the best way to get there. --Ken Thompson
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On 30 May 2010, at 17:16, Kris Maglione wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 06:09:02PM +0200, Uriel wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Kris Maglione wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:36:44AM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote: FreeBSD doesn't support UTF-8 in the console. It only does UTF-8 in X11. Well, the point is that it does UTF-8 in libc, which is always the real issue. Uh! No, libc has the wchar abomination, which should *never* be used. The issue is having decent tools to work with text that support UTF-8 clearly and efficiently, and Plan 9 from User Space provides by far the best solution for this, even on Linux. You're funny. The existence and prevalent use of an interface does not necessarily indicate that interface is a good one. wchar() is made to graft utf8 onto systems which have their roots in the 1970s. Some operating system research has been done since, not much, but some, and Plan 9 is the product of some of that research. Granted, none of that's any help when you just want the tools you're familiar with, but I've got to the stage where I'll throw away any software that gets in my way, no matter how 'standard' it is. To give a bit more props to the research that went into Plan 9 and say a bit about the poorness of widely-accepted stuff, you see that link in my signature? For years I used and helped dev a Linux distro with a package manager written in bash script. I got started to get sorts- kinda-maybe-ish slightly better than average with bash scripting. I started to get an idea maybe Plan's shell, rc, was a bit better in a few ways, so I started working with it. Rc and Plan 9's awk together were so easy to learn, In a few weeks I'd come up with a whole fragging web server serving CGI, static files, vhosts... it's a fairly full-featured piece of kit, and I started with next to no knowlege of rc and none at all of awk! Working with bourne shell I was just barely getting to the point where I wasn't struggling to write simple housekeeping scripts for myself. The difference between properly designed tools and.. the mountain of shit that makes up standard software (I'm sorry, I can't use a nicer word) is blowing my mind. -- Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it. -- Alan Perlis rc-httpd: http://eekee.is-a-geek.org/rc-httpd/
Re: [dev] Re: [wmii] problems with glibc-2.12
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 06:19:50PM +0200, pascal wrote: Le Sun, 30 May 2010 11:25:28 -0400 Kris Maglione a écrit: Do a full sysupgrade and a clean build and the wmii abort issue will go away. As for wmiir, you'll have to build with 'STATIC=' because glibc seems to have broken nss for statically linked applications. Thanks. How many times am I gonna raise issues that can be solved by a clean build ? ;-) Eh, it happens. Anyway, for me it required a full sysupgrade as well as a clean build, so you really can't be blamed. Also, if you hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't have noticed wmiir was broken since I rarely bother to rebuild it. -- Kris Maglione For the time being, programming is a consumer job, assembly line coding is the norm, and what little exciting stuff is being performed is not going to make it compared to the mass-marketed crap sold by those who think they can surf on the previous half-century's worth of inventions forever. --Eric Naggum
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:19:09AM -0600, anthony wrote:
> Setting "XTerm*locale: utf8" has worked well enough for me, though it's no
> help for console support. I find that OpenBSD has adequate (though imperfect)
> Unicode support; the major problem I have with it is that the compose key
> only supports ISO8859 characters...
Now we're on the BSD subject, any knowledge on how well it's implemented
in FreeBSD in comparison to OpenBSD?
--
Marvin Vek
-
panic("aha1740.c"); /* Goodbye */
linux-2.2.16/drivers/scsi/aha1740.c
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
> > You can use Plan 9 from User Space in OpenBSD which provides probably > > the best UTF-8 support of any tool set. > > uriel > > > Whoa. That kinda blew my mind away for a while. But then again, it's not gonn > a help me get UTF-8 in console, ncurses apps and xterm (I had UTF-8 issues in > Xterm the last time I tried OpenBSD), is it? > Setting "XTerm*locale: utf8" has worked well enough for me, though it's no help for console support. I find that OpenBSD has adequate (though imperfect) Unicode support; the major problem I have with it is that the compose key only supports ISO8859 characters... --Anthony J. Bentley
[dev] Re: [wmii] problems with glibc-2.12
Le Sun, 30 May 2010 11:25:28 -0400 Kris Maglione a écrit: > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 04:32:02PM +0200, pascal wrote: > >glibc has been updated to 2.12 in archlinux and now wmii (both > >release and -hg) despite building without errors will abort at > >the beginning of the process. On the tty it simply states > >"aborted" , and on the DISPLAY the screen is black and the bar > >empty, in a frozen state. Reverting to glibc-2.11 fixes the > >issue. > > Do a full sysupgrade and a clean build and the wmii abort issue > will go away. As for wmiir, you'll have to build with 'STATIC=' > because glibc seems to have broken nss for statically linked > applications. > Thanks. How many times am I gonna raise issues that can be solved by a clean build ? ;-) Pascal
Re: Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 06:09:02PM +0200, Uriel wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Kris Maglione wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:36:44AM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote: FreeBSD doesn't support UTF-8 in the console. It only does UTF-8 in X11. Well, the point is that it does UTF-8 in libc, which is always the real issue. Uh! No, libc has the wchar abomination, which should *never* be used. The issue is having decent tools to work with text that support UTF-8 clearly and efficiently, and Plan 9 from User Space provides by far the best solution for this, even on Linux. You're funny. -- Kris Maglione Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --Edsger W. Dijkstra
Re: Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Kris Maglione wrote: > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:36:44AM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote: >> >> On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Kris Maglione >> wrote: >>> >>> You could always try FreeBSD. They've had UTF-8 support since version 5. >>> The >>> ifconfig isn't quite as good as OpenBSD's, though. It doesn't handle WPA >>> internally (but, then, given OpenBSD's focus on crypto, it's not >>> surprising >>> that its does where others' don't). >> >> FreeBSD doesn't support UTF-8 in the console. It only does UTF-8 in X11. > > Well, the point is that it does UTF-8 in libc, which is always the real > issue. Uh! No, libc has the wchar abomination, which should *never* be used. The issue is having decent tools to work with text that support UTF-8 clearly and efficiently, and Plan 9 from User Space provides by far the best solution for this, even on Linux. uriel > X11 really has nothing to do with it. Frankly, the syscons has always > been a bit crufty. I've never even been able to get it to do any mode other > than 24x80. On the other hand, it has better mouse support than most > consoles, so... > > -- > Kris Maglione > > Nations have recently been led to borrow billions for war; no nation > has ever borrowed largely for education. Probably, no nation is rich > enough to pay for both war and civilization. We must make our choice; > we cannot have both. > --Abraham Flexner > > >
Re: Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:36:44AM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Kris Maglione wrote: You could always try FreeBSD. They've had UTF-8 support since version 5. The ifconfig isn't quite as good as OpenBSD's, though. It doesn't handle WPA internally (but, then, given OpenBSD's focus on crypto, it's not surprising that its does where others' don't). FreeBSD doesn't support UTF-8 in the console. It only does UTF-8 in X11. Well, the point is that it does UTF-8 in libc, which is always the real issue. X11 really has nothing to do with it. Frankly, the syscons has always been a bit crufty. I've never even been able to get it to do any mode other than 24x80. On the other hand, it has better mouse support than most consoles, so... -- Kris Maglione Nations have recently been led to borrow billions for war; no nation has ever borrowed largely for education. Probably, no nation is rich enough to pay for both war and civilization. We must make our choice; we cannot have both. --Abraham Flexner
Re: Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Kris Maglione wrote: > You could always try FreeBSD. They've had UTF-8 support since version 5. The > ifconfig isn't quite as good as OpenBSD's, though. It doesn't handle WPA > internally (but, then, given OpenBSD's focus on crypto, it's not surprising > that its does where others' don't). FreeBSD doesn't support UTF-8 in the console. It only does UTF-8 in X11. On the wireless management side, FreeBSD comes with wifimgr[1], which is pretty nice, even if it's just a GUI wrapper around editing wpa_supplicant.conf. [1] http://opal.com/freebsd/ports/net-mgmt/wifimgr/ -- # Kurt H Maier
Re: [dev] [wmii] problems with glibc-2.12
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 04:32:02PM +0200, pascal wrote: glibc has been updated to 2.12 in archlinux and now wmii (both release and -hg) despite building without errors will abort at the beginning of the process. On the tty it simply states "aborted" , and on the DISPLAY the screen is black and the bar empty, in a frozen state. Reverting to glibc-2.11 fixes the issue. Do a full sysupgrade and a clean build and the wmii abort issue will go away. As for wmiir, you'll have to build with 'STATIC=' because glibc seems to have broken nss for statically linked applications. -- Kris Maglione A program is portable to the extent that it can be easily moved to a new computing environment with much less effort than would be required to write it afresh. --W. Stan Brown
Re: Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 04:09:01PM +0400, Ilya Ilembitov wrote: You can use Plan 9 from User Space in OpenBSD which provides probably the best UTF-8 support of any tool set. uriel Whoa. That kinda blew my mind away for a while. But then again, it's not gonna help me get UTF-8 in console, ncurses apps and xterm (I had UTF-8 issues in Xterm the last time I tried OpenBSD), is it? You could always try FreeBSD. They've had UTF-8 support since version 5. The ifconfig isn't quite as good as OpenBSD's, though. It doesn't handle WPA internally (but, then, given OpenBSD's focus on crypto, it's not surprising that its does where others' don't). -- Kris Maglione Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I assure you that mine are greater. --Albert Einstein
Re: [dev] dwm-5.8.1 / dmenu-4.1.1
Works fine but an option to disable automatic resize while handling EWMH would allow to do things like this => http://imgur.com/LGNIx.png and would permit to play with floating/monocle/tiles mode. Regards, -- Sylvain `Magicking` Laurent sylvain.laur...@epita.fr
[dev] [wmii] problems with glibc-2.12
Hi glibc has been updated to 2.12 in archlinux and now wmii (both release and -hg) despite building without errors will abort at the beginning of the process. On the tty it simply states "aborted" , and on the DISPLAY the screen is black and the bar empty, in a frozen state. Reverting to glibc-2.11 fixes the issue.
Re: Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Ilya Ilembitov wrote: > Whoa. That kinda blew my mind away for a while. But then again, it's not > gonna help me get UTF-8 in console, ncurses apps and xterm (I had UTF-8 > issues in Xterm the last time I tried OpenBSD), is it? No. But you're not supposed to use them if you install Plan 9 from User Space.
Re: [dev] dwm-5.8.1 / dmenu-4.1.1
No issues here; it works perfectly. Thanks! Regards, Claudio M. Alessi -- JID: smoppy AT gmail.com WWW: http://clamiax.selfip.org
Re: Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
> You can use Plan 9 from User Space in OpenBSD which provides probably > the best UTF-8 support of any tool set. > uriel Whoa. That kinda blew my mind away for a while. But then again, it's not gonna help me get UTF-8 in console, ncurses apps and xterm (I had UTF-8 issues in Xterm the last time I tried OpenBSD), is it?
Re: Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:58 AM, Ilya Ilembitov wrote: > Honestly, because of things like that I would gladly switch to OpenBSD (since > it supports all of my laptop's hardware and has all the software I need). But > the fact that currently it doesn't have UTF-8 is really stopping me from > doing so. You can use Plan 9 from User Space in OpenBSD which provides probably the best UTF-8 support of any tool set. uriel
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
In Linux I use two scripts. I store the passwords in two plain files: wep: #! /bin/sh key="`grep $1 /home/pmarin/wep | cut -d' ' -f2`" sudo ifconfig wlan0 up sudo iwconfig wlan0 essid $1 sudo iwconfig wlan0 key $key sudo dhclient wlan0 wpa: #! /bin/sh sudo ifconfig wlan0 up sudo iwconfig wlan0 essid $1 sudo wpa_supplicant -iwlan0 -c/home/pmarin/wpa -B sudo dhclient wlan0 On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Ilya Ilembitov wrote: > Hi, all.I wanted to ask for an advice. > > Being a laptop user, I have to swtich between wireless networks quite > frequently, and often I have to connect to the new networks. So, I am in need > of a tool that would allow me to automatize the whole routine: provide me > with a list of networks, allow me to select the one to connect, find out the > type of encryption and actually connect to it (prompting me for the > encryption key, if needed) - since I don't think that I'll be able to > memorize all the wpa_supplicant options to use it fluently (i.e. without > having to read the manpage each time I want to connect to a new network). > > The current options that I am aware of: > > 1. Networkmanager - ties a lot of dependencies and is not quite stable > > 2. wicd - has a ncurses flavour, I'll probably give it a try. > > 3. connman (that thing that is used in Moblin/Meego) - quite young and I > haven't heard much of it, and whether it could be used outside of its > original environment. Although I believe I have read somewhere that E17 > people were trying to make a EFL GUi to it, so probably it's rather flexible. > > Any other options? I was hoping that someone has already come up with a > custom solution that would integrate into dwm/dmenu environment nicely. > > > -- > wbr, Ilembitov > >
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sun, 30 May 2010 04:57:42 + bjartur wrote: > iw has a scan subcommand > which lists the type of encryption as well as the SSID and connection > strength but it's quite verbose (by default at least). This isn't > perfect so I'm open to suggestions as well. I use a little perl script (20 LOC) I wrote some time ago using iwconfig as backend. It outputs a human readable list of the available networks sorted by signal quality. With the flag -d you can specify an BSSID (or part of) to get detailed info about that network. If somebody wants to give it a shot, is in my toys repository: http://nibble.develsec.org/hg/toys/file/4bd5f258b429/wifiscan I personally use this script + iwconfig + ifconfig/dhclient. And some sh scripts to connect to my usual networks. Kind regards, -- nibble
Re: [dev] Is there a reason to use install(1)?
On 30 May 2010, at 10:49, markus schnalke wrote: [2010-05-29 23:37] Ethan Grammatikidis This didn't seem to reach the list the first time, resending to check if it's a glitch. The mail already reached the list the first time. See: http://lists.suckless.org/dev/1005/4394.html Strange. Sorry for the noise. meillo -- Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it. -- Alan Perlis rc-httpd: http://eekee.is-a-geek.org/rc-httpd/
Re: [dev] Is there a reason to use install(1)?
[2010-05-29 23:37] Ethan Grammatikidis > This didn't seem to reach the list the first time, resending to check > if it's a glitch. The mail already reached the list the first time. See: http://lists.suckless.org/dev/1005/4394.html meillo
Re: [dev] dwm-5.8.1 / dmenu-4.1.1
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:07:00AM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: On 29 May 2010 22:18, Sylvain Laurent wrote: Yes, that's what I was thinking about EWMH, there is already monocle mode to set full screen on the user's end, by not maximizing windows when sending hint to the window it allows users to play with monocle/floating/tiles mode. I spend some time on the fullscreen issues and came up with a version that works for all cases I tested so far. It is committed into hg tip. It is a simplification of Kris' patch (basically I got rid of superflous checks that don't seem to be necessary), but with a more complicated clientmessage(). I also extended Client a bit to keep state and changed resize(). The changes I did are backwards compliant for any layout algorithms however. Your version is much cleaner. As for the checks, I went and rechecked the spec, and it is a SHOULD rather than a MUST. It's mainly intended for restarting/changing window managers, so unless something is broken without it, I think it should be left out. -- Kris Maglione The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is duplication. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information. --Alan J. Perlis
Re: [dev] dwm-5.8.1 / dmenu-4.1.1
2010/5/30 Anselm R Garbe : > On 29 May 2010 22:18, Sylvain Laurent wrote: >> 2010/5/29 Kris Maglione : >>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 07:59:39PM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: On 29 May 2010 19:17, Anselm R Garbe wrote: > > On 29 May 2010 18:18, Kris Maglione wrote: >> >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 01:12:15PM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: >> The getfullscreen bit is probably not necessary in most cases. The rest >> of the clientmessage function is a hack, because I don't know the dwm >> sourcecode well enough to do it properly. It's just to show what's >> required. > > I got a similar impression when reverting the changeset that the EWMH > fullscreen handling was incomplete. > > Overall my aim is trying to prevent using too much EWMH magic, though as > things look more clients seem to fully depend on EWMH nowadays for > fullscreen handling, like chromium. >>> >>> I think the intention of the patch wasn't to support EWMH fullscreen so much >>> as to tell apps that they were in fullscreen mode. Without it, chromium went >>> fullscreen fine, but it still showed its tab bar, etc. A lot of apps (when >>> the WM supports EWMH) only show their fullscreen UI when they have the EWMH >>> fullscreen hint set on their window. It's actually a good thing in a lot of >>> cases, because if you manually force the apps to fullscreen from the WM side >>> they tend to hide their decorations properly. >> >> Yes, that's what I was thinking about EWMH, there is already monocle >> mode to set full screen on the user's end, by not maximizing windows >> when sending hint to the window it allows users to play with >> monocle/floating/tiles mode. > > I spend some time on the fullscreen issues and came up with a version > that works for all cases I tested so far. It is committed into hg tip. > It is a simplification of Kris' patch (basically I got rid of > superflous checks that don't seem to be necessary), but with a more > complicated clientmessage(). I also extended Client a bit to keep > state and changed resize(). The changes I did are backwards compliant > for any layout algorithms however. > > Please test hg tip and let me know any issues. > Do you remember the mplayer scaling issue that we talked about on IRC? The issue is still here even in hg tip. Cheers. -- Demelier David
Re: [dev] dwm-5.8.1 / dmenu-4.1.1
On 29 May 2010 22:18, Sylvain Laurent wrote: > 2010/5/29 Kris Maglione : >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 07:59:39PM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: >>> >>> On 29 May 2010 19:17, Anselm R Garbe wrote: On 29 May 2010 18:18, Kris Maglione wrote: > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 01:12:15PM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: > The getfullscreen bit is probably not necessary in most cases. The rest > of the clientmessage function is a hack, because I don't know the dwm > sourcecode well enough to do it properly. It's just to show what's > required. I got a similar impression when reverting the changeset that the EWMH fullscreen handling was incomplete. Overall my aim is trying to prevent using too much EWMH magic, though as things look more clients seem to fully depend on EWMH nowadays for fullscreen handling, like chromium. >> >> I think the intention of the patch wasn't to support EWMH fullscreen so much >> as to tell apps that they were in fullscreen mode. Without it, chromium went >> fullscreen fine, but it still showed its tab bar, etc. A lot of apps (when >> the WM supports EWMH) only show their fullscreen UI when they have the EWMH >> fullscreen hint set on their window. It's actually a good thing in a lot of >> cases, because if you manually force the apps to fullscreen from the WM side >> they tend to hide their decorations properly. > > Yes, that's what I was thinking about EWMH, there is already monocle > mode to set full screen on the user's end, by not maximizing windows > when sending hint to the window it allows users to play with > monocle/floating/tiles mode. I spend some time on the fullscreen issues and came up with a version that works for all cases I tested so far. It is committed into hg tip. It is a simplification of Kris' patch (basically I got rid of superflous checks that don't seem to be necessary), but with a more complicated clientmessage(). I also extended Client a bit to keep state and changed resize(). The changes I did are backwards compliant for any layout algorithms however. Please test hg tip and let me know any issues. Kind regards, Anselm
Re: [dev] Is there a reason to use install(1)?
[2010-05-30 00:29] Moritz Wilhelmy > > You mean, install is just meant as a wrapper around the standard > > tools > > to express the actions in a more compact way. (btw: It's a shame that > > install isn't a shell script then.) > > Well. why isn't man(1) a shell-script? It used to be. (And it should still be.) > And what about the dozens of other > tools which could be trivially implemented in sh? They aren't implemented in sh because many people care about other things. Gancarz probably should have wrote his book earlier. He includes an excellent chapter on writing as much as possible in sh. But, how did you feel when you, for the first time, heard Gancarz advising you to do so? Haven't you wanted to argue on this case first? > some loop over the directories in $MANPATH to look for the manpage, > nroff -man $f | $PAGER > > Even the BSDs have man as a binary program. BSDs tend to optimize for performance. Maybe they even were the first to introduce man as a binary program, but this is just a guess. meillo
Re: [dev] Is there a reason to use install(1)?
[2010-05-29 18:15] Kris Maglione > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 11:56:26PM +0200, markus schnalke wrote: > >[2010-05-29 23:46] Moritz Wilhelmy > >> > Very often I see makefile use install(1) when cp, mkdir, chmod, and > >> > Co. would be equally compact. > >> > >> Consider > >> > >> install -D -m755 -u foo -g bar foo.sh $DESTDIR/usr/bin > >> > >> vs. > >> > >> mkdir -p $DESTDIR/usr/bin > >> cp foo.sh $DESTDIR/usr/bin > >> chmod 755 $DESTDIR/usr/bin/foo.sh > >> chown foo:bar $DESTDIR/usr/bin/foo.sh > >> > >> and tell me about "equally compact" again... > > > >I know about such cases, but this is not the common case, at least as > >far as I've seen it. > > > > > >You mean, install is just meant as a wrapper around the standard tools > >to express the actions in a more compact way. (btw: It's a shame that > >install isn't a shell script then.) > > But it is the common case. At the very least copying and setting > the permissions is the common case, mkdir is very common, and > the chown comes about often enough. When you have to install a > half dozen different files, it adds up. And it's definitely > nearly universally available (except on Plan 9) despite not > being defined by POSIX, but you're right about the > incompatibilities-though they don't really matter if you don't > try anything fancy. Thanks for the explanations. meillo
Re: [dev] Fwd: OT:GUI wireless connections management?
On Sat, 29 May 2010 22:14:45 -0700 Will Light wrote: > arch linux has netcfg, which I use. it, like wicd, can be a little > warty, but the whole thing is written in bash and doesn't require a > UI. adding network profiles is done through editing conf files in > /etc/network.d/ > > http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netcfg > > -w nectg also has a wifi-select utility, which gives you a list of available wifi networks and helps you to configure netcfg profile for them. But I've ended up with networkmanager. -- Alexandr Krylovskiy
