Re: [dev] [suckless] Migration to git
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 10:36:38PM +0700, Comrade DOS wrote: Hi. Migration on git is a very good idea. Maybe you can move source code on github and/or bitbucket? Do you want ants, Christoph? Because this is how you get ants.
Re: [dev] [suckless] Migration to git
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:25:18AM +0100, Christoph Lohmann wrote: I am proposing a migration of all mercurial to git repositories. Git is mature and used by nearly all major OSS projects. Mercurial has this slow prototyping dependency of Python, which is annoying and could be removed that way. Of course git is still(?) adding a perl dependency. I hope this can be removed from git. Why not just remove python from mercurial instead? Lots of nerds use it is not a compelling argument, unless you are trying to convince us to buy Macs next. Dpb on IRC showed me [0], which seems to do a near to perfect import of the old hg history. Anyone had bad experiences with this? It works fine, but you still haven't made sufficient case for switching. For the web interface on git.suckless.org I am proposing cgit, which is fast and written in C. Also works well. Does not justify a switch. How are your thoughts, comrades? Why bother?
Re: [dev] [suckless] Migration to git
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:55:39AM +0100, Roberto E. Vargas Caballero wrote: Uhmm, I have done it with st repository of course, I work with git against the actual hg repository ^^!!!. Christoph, why can't you just do this instead of shitting all over everything else?
Re: [dev] [suckless] Migration to git
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 04:10:46PM +0100, pancake wrote: On 11/26/12 15:41, Kurt H Maier wrote: everytime i proposed in mercurialchan to rewrite it in C, everybody thought i was trolling or so.. i would also love to have hg in c, but the reactions were pretty rude, so i decided to move to git. and python is not a dependency for mercurial. It is written in it. cinap's been working on hgfs for 9front. if you're really that butthurt about python you could always port it. if we're going to change vcs just to change, why not move back to darcs or something? I'm still waiting for anyone to make any kind of case for changing to git other than lots of people use it.
Re: [dev] [suckless] Migration to git
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:38:17AM -0500, Calvin Morrison wrote: One could argue that hg doesn't fit the suckless philosophy The git source tree is more than four hundred percent bigger than the mercurial source tree. git ships more than 160 *man pages*. It is the emacs of version control. There is no way in hell that hg is not suckless compared to git. The fact that it is written in python is unfortunate, but I am positive that writing a mercurial client in C would be infinitely more beneficial than migrating every suckless repository to fucking git.
Re: [dev] [suckless] Migration to git
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 05:08:56PM +0100, Roberto E. Vargas Caballero wrote: The git source tree is more than four hundred percent bigger than the are you comparing the size of a project in python with the size of a project written in C?. The logical relation should be 2 times the size of hg, and then you could say that they have a similar size. No, if the logical relation is double the size, then git is STILL twice as big as THAT. It is due to git keeps the api in small programs than you could use in your scripts. These small programs are 100% Unix philosophy (do only one thing and do it fine, write an output that can be used as input for other, ...). Work with these low-level progams (plumbling in git vocabulary) is hard, and it is the reason git have a 'user friendly' (porcelain in git vocabulary) programs, which are pretty similar to these you can find in mercurial. If you don't need an advanced use of git then you will read only the pages of porcelain programs, whose number is similar to the programs in mercurial. Maybe you like more have a library and have to link all the others programs with it, and duplicate the work in all the binaries where the library is linked, instead of using small programs. All you've done is convince me that git is its own operating system. It's ludicrously complex and needlessly huge. I don't care that it is trendy or popular with developers; most of the 'benefits' you listed are basically using git as though it were an entire disk filesystem. git-stash is revolting.
Re: [dev] [suckless] Migration to git
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 05:29:23PM +0100, Roberto E. Vargas Caballero wrote: I am going to stop this discussion because I think we will not gain anything with it, but it is very funny that people here use the word 'complex' in some religious way, and the things that they don't like directly are marked as complex, without explaining why. I've explained to you why it's complex. It's a truly massive piece of software, and when I install it on my laptop there are more git-* commands placed in /usr/bin than *all other binaries on my computer*. It's three hundred thousands lines of code spread across eight programming languages, and pretending it's 'simple' because it's broken into a hundred binaries is completely retarded. None of those binaries function independently at all; they all require some subset of the other hundred binaries they ship with. *You* have made the effort to understand all this crap, and I'm sure you consider your life to be improved thereby. But that does not indicate that this arabesque monstrosity deserves pride of place on every other person's computer. Thanks to cinap's hgfs work, I *understand* hg's on-disk format, and I'm not entirely sure there's any one person who understands all of git. It's like c++: everyone agrees it's safe to use, but nobody agrees on which 10% is the safe part.
Re: [dev] [suckless] Migration to git
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 05:55:33PM +0100, pancake wrote: about hgfs... it is using the mercurial python module, right? because the googlecode svn repo is empty.. or am i pointing to the wrong hgfs? cinap's done a lot of work removing dependencies on the python/ape stuff. it's not 100% there yet but it's pretty close to being useful standalone. I think he's committing it straight into the 9front repository.
Re: [dev] Re: [suckless] Migration to git
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 08:46:37PM +0100, Andreas Krennmair wrote: * Christian Neukirchen chneukirc...@gmail.com [2012-11-26 20:30]: Andreas Krennmair a...@synflood.at writes: * pancake panc...@youterm.com [2012-11-26 18:00]: On 11/26/12 17:33, Kurt H Maier wrote: programming languages, and pretending it's 'simple' because it's broken sloccount git = 126.000 C libgit2 = 37.000 mercurial = 34.000 python + 3000 in C if you say that python loc is 2x times the same done in C then we should move to libgit2 with a decent frontend that can be just few lines of code linking to libgit2 statically. 37.000 LOCs is still a lot, so.. i would like to see a mercurial implementation in C If you're arguing on this level, then why not switch to OpenCVS? http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/cvs/ Only 18,133 SLOCs of C code. Why not SCCS? Jörg Schilling's fork of SCCS has 62,917 SLOCs. That's because he's an idiot. I know you're all being funny, but I just checked, and sure enough: the git source tree is bigger than the plan 9 kernel. It's *more* than an operating system.
Re: [dev] Minimal distributions
On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 08:46:14PM +0100, KarlOskar Rikås wrote: It's always good to have a friendly attitude. On Nov 25, 2012 8:44 PM, hiro 23h...@gmail.com wrote: At least you could try to be respectful. I respect you why not doing the same with me? That's a misuse of the word respect. I have absolutely no respect for you as I don't know anything (positive) about you. Stop top-posting you jerk
Re: [dev] Minimal distributions
On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 09:00:18PM +0100, KarlOskar Rikås wrote: Well I don't know how to change that with the shitty client I'm using. Then stop posting until you get to a real mail client
Re: [dev] Minimal distributions
On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 09:57:53PM +0100, Hugues Moretto-Viry wrote: It doesn't change anything. This mailing is interesting, especially for patches / news , except when you see rude comments. Nearly every rude comment posted to this list is well-deserved. Many of us consider it just as rude to post HTML mail, or top-post, or do any number of things that make it a pain in the ass to read the messages. Get over yourself.
Re: [dev] Minimal distributions
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 10:45:54PM +0100, Hadrian Węgrzynowski wrote: You want our opinion, but there is No need to talk about (...). Maybe there is not a lot more to say then? He's in charge here! Just spit out the required information! Adhere to the parameters set! Why are you arguing? Immediate response is the only thing that suits a man in his position!
Re: [dev] [surf] adblocking
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 06:18:08PM +0100, Adrian Sadłocha wrote: On 2012-11-20 14:07, hiro wrote: I block only in my DNS. I think it's the most important feature of my home network. Not only because it blocks ads, but also because it block fads. What does 'fad' mean? It means person who refuses to consult a dictionary
Re: [dev] [surf] adblocking
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:13:06PM +0100, Yoshi Rokuko wrote: somehow you guys still haven't convinced me of not using a local /etc/hosts with all these 0.0.0.0 goat.cx in it. Thanks for letting us know, Yoshi Rokuko.
Re: [dev] [surf] adblocking
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 02:08:01PM +, Nick wrote: Yeah, I agree with the general feeling that adblocking shouldn't be done in the browser. wtf? the ads are DISPLAYED in the browser. it's stupid to blackhole dns and let requests time out rather than just not making the request in the first place.
Re: [dev] [surf] adblocking
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 03:30:38PM +, Nick wrote: The way I do it with a local proxy means that said requests are stripped out of the HTML before reaching the browser. DNS based things will presumably fail immediately with /etc/hosts, rather than time out. But you're still wasting the bandwidth. It's insane.
Re: [dev] [surf] adblocking
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 04:33:20PM +0100, Troels Henriksen wrote: Kurt H Maier khm-suckl...@intma.in writes: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 03:30:38PM +, Nick wrote: The way I do it with a local proxy means that said requests are stripped out of the HTML before reaching the browser. DNS based things will presumably fail immediately with /etc/hosts, rather than time out. But you're still wasting the bandwidth. It's insane. The bandwidth to the local proxy? How exactly is anything being wasted? Well, he said the requests are stripped out of the HTML which doesn't make a ton of sense. Is it requesting all elements in a page and then stripping them, or what?
Re: [dev] [surf] adblocking
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 03:42:34PM +, Nick wrote: What I meant is that privoxy will strip out e.g. img src=badthing.png from the HTML it delivers to the browser, so the browser will not request it. I think it does the same with scripts etc. So that makes more sense. It seems to have the same effect as urlfilter.ini (that is: do not make requests to the following url patterns...), but why bother generalizing this out from the browser?
Re: [dev] [surf] adblocking
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 05:37:09PM +0100, hiro wrote: so that i don't have to set it up on all my fucking pcs. for me personally it was easier this way since I already have a dns server anyway. sorry I didn't know you lived in a fucking computer lab
Re: [dev] I'm back
On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 07:00:23AM +0100, Jens Staal wrote: For me, this is a nicer solution than for example pacman to keep track on which files that belong to which package (no fragile databases needed). I am also happy to report that dmenu/dwm works nicely on Sabotage (however, it seems like some of the xlibs can not be linked statically). Slackware does this without crapping up the disk: the manifest is in the file /var/log/packages/packagename. If you need to know where a file came from, just grep the path in that directory. What I have noticed lately is however how much of the broken stuff that are expected to build also relatively fundamental technologies. For example, mesa (which is needed if one ever wants to run wayland instead of X) expects libudev to build, and if the version requirements will increase further that will basically force systemd on peopole. When I discovered wayland required mesa, I cited it as the biggest problem wayland had. Now it has other problems, but mesa still really sucks. Not only does it depend on libudev, it has a build-time dep on libxml2 (unsure if that is also runtime). How does it run on FreeBSD? I know it still pulls in XML crap, but surely they're not building a dummy udev in the linux emulation layer? I am starting to think of this as the Fragile X syndrome, which usually refers to a genetic disease causing mental retardation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragile_X_syndrome ). I am starting to feel that Linux is having a serious case of its digital variant. I love this. Fragile X11 Syndrome. The only difference is it's caused *by* mental retardation.
Re: [dev] I'm back
On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 06:20:03PM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: sta.li -- To me archlinux was a good distro until a couple of years ago. Nowadays it seems to be very en vogue and thus has degraded quite significantly in terms of simplicity. I'm not aware of any distro that would come close to the radical goals of stali, thus this is the real effort suckless.org must work on. I believe that the Android core as a base system is the best platform to base sta.li on. crux linux might have some useful approaches. I don't understand the decision to use android crap like bionic when musl has come so far so quickly.
Re: [dev] [st] Keyboard patches
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 07:34:00PM +0100, Brandon Invergo wrote: I'm glad that you're thorough and you've put a lot of work into making st robust, but how do these patches help us in 2012-soon-to-be-2013? What?
Re: [dev] Problem with dwm while using locale kn_IN
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 08:30:10PM +0530, Vasudev Kamath wrote: bank account?? You need to have your checking account and routing number on file with the Suckless Support division to enable the Pro Pack on dwm.
Re: [dev] [st] 0.3 release
On Fri, Nov 02, 2012 at 08:12:45PM +0100, Christoph Lohmann wrote: * easy debugging with: st -o - | cat -v cat came back from __20h__ waving flags
Re: [dev] I don't want to live on this planet anymore
On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 12:13:50PM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote: I'd really wish if you'd stop the random banter in all threads. I forget the last time you contributed to a discussion -_- On hiro's behalf, I apologizing for disrupting important discussions regarding I don't want to live on this planet anymore. Sincerely,
Re: [dev] [st] cjk input
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:37:35PM +0800, Kai Hendry wrote: On 29 October 2012 22:27, Petr Šabata con...@redhat.com wrote: Tested with scim; no issues with the input. People still use SCIM? I thought it was unmaintained. I thought RH supported ibus instead or are you just slow to move over ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus RHEL5 is not EOL until 2017.
Re: [dev] Troff for typsetting e-mails
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 05:03:06PM +0400, p37si...@lavabit.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 01:21:40PM +0100, hiro wrote: typesetting? raw text can be typeset just fine with a keyboard. not sure what you're really up to. It is suckless answer to HTML email. It might as well *be* HTML email.
Re: [dev] Troff for typsetting e-mails
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 01:17:27PM -0400, Galos, David wrote: It you really want to typeset your e-mails, why not use markdown? * It is human readable, so no-one needs any fancy frontend * You don't need any annoying multi-part nonsense * After using things like werc, it should already be second nature to many people. * Much non-markdown mail also happens to be valid markdown e-mail. Because markdown is not a typesetting program, it's an HTML macro language. Not all werc users bother with markdown shit.
Re: [dev] Troff for typsetting e-mails
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 09:52:16PM +0100, pancake wrote: Do you know ssg? Its a perl script that converts a markdown file into a postscript slides.. I already have typesetting software. ssg's existence doesn't make markdown more useful, it just makes it slightly less useful than troff. Theres also an awk markdown parser to html and make it work on ansi is just plain simple (or output troff) I already know html. troff can already output html. Markdown is human readable and easy to parse to generate various outputs, it just needs a tool for that. Why do people keep saying something is human-readable as though I give a shit? troff source is human-readable for the set of humans who understand troff. Markdown is a pain in the ass because no two of these tools produce the same output given the same input. It was originally specified as a subset of html, and every time someone extends it they do it in a different way. If I want to have to run programs on a text file to produce another text file, I'll do one where I can predict the outcome.
Re: [dev] uriel is gone
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 09:50:34AM +0200, Hadrian Węgrzynowski wrote: Sorry if I'm ignorant, but what will happen with cat-v.org? it's in good hands, and should remain online for the foreseeable future.
[dev] uriel is gone
Sorry to have to let you guys know, uriel passed away peacefully a couple days ago. We'll miss him. Kurt
Re: [dev] uriel is gone
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:32:23PM +0200, Jakub Lach wrote: Dead as in troll which is not trolling is dead troll, or as a dead troll which is dead? I would miss him in both cases. First one, then the other.
Re: [dev] [st] toggle font
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 09:28:33PM +0100, Nick wrote: Quoth Roberto E. Vargas Caballero: I also need this feature, but maybe could be done in other way. I talked about this with other persons of the list, and we liked let st be configured using the stdin of st, so you can do it something like: configurator | st And, for example, you could use dmenu and select the font you want to use. Eugh. That isn't the way anything else is configured. It's a pretty weird interface. config.h, argv switches and potentially keybindings are reasonable ways to configure programs. stdin is just silly. What's wrong with environment variables?
Re: [dev] antialiased fonts in st
On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 05:06:45PM +0200, Christoph Lohmann wrote: Sadly, I haven’t found a way to to overwrite the global settings in fontconfig for just an application. So the needed antialiasing in Fire‐ fox (The web looks ugly without!) will automatically overwrite the st settings, where using non‐antialiasing will create more readable output with small monospaced text. Maybe that’s a topic which will come up when Wayland is moving things forward. hahaha wayland anyway, you can set specific exclusions to certain fonts at certain sizes. this involves dicking around in xml. I told you so. there should be examples in your /etc/fonts/conf.avail; if not, some minor googling should help. within xft itself, this might be happening because you're using XftFontOpenPattern, which is subject to 'automagic' editing based on global xft config, which in turn is molested by freetype. you might try taking the match, appending your XFT_ANTIALIAS bool, and then using XftFontOpenName instead. Not sure if this works any more, but iirc it did the last time I was under the delusion that xft was worth using. speaking of which, the simplest way to disable antialiasing is to use real fonts.
Re: [dev] [st] [sandy] wierd things happens to the font after sandy use
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 01:05:47AM +0200, Christoph Lohmann wrote: I really tried to find corefonts that would look good and represent nearly all unicode characters - it's impossible. On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 09:26:48AM +0200, Christoph Lohmann wrote: Near to all default xft fonts are missing a wide range of symbols. Hahaha
Re: [dev] Hall of shame of the web
a, did safari crash again?
Re: [dev] [dwm] Why does gimp float by default
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:48:07PM +0100, Nick wrote: In dwm's config.h, gimp is used as an example rule to start floating. This seems like a bad example, as gimp is much less useful when its windows aren't managed. Is there a program that's widely used, that is genuinely better to start floating? If not, perhaps the gimp float rule should be removed (or commented out,) as it makes the default configuration less usable. Nick It's just an example so people can see how to set floating clients. Relax.
Re: [dev] [st] xft: line drawing
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 05:47:07PM +0200, Brandon Invergo wrote: Anyone else have this problem or is it just me? we have to find out if it's working on christophms mac or it won't get fixed
Re: [dev] bspwm 0.1
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 12:28:18PM +0200, Bastien Dejean wrote: Hi, I'm glad to announce the first release of bspwm, a tiling window manager I've been working on for the past two months: https://github.com/baskerville/bspwm Oh, another window manager where you have to manage your own windows.
Re: [dev] [ANN] CGD - Ultra-minimalist HTTP and FastCGI wrapper for CGI programs.
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 09:50:14PM +0200, Džen wrote: What's the reason behind using nginx anyway? I guess it would be simpler to write an own http web server with go's http lib. Or am I wrong? Yes sure it's absolutely simpler to design, write, and test your own public-facing network service from scratch than it would be to deploy a well-tested and well-understood performant, secure server that has already been packaged for several popular operating systems. So much simpler.
Re: [dev] [OT] Setting up a dedicated server
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 05:24:40PM +0200, clamiax wrote: I just trust some people here and I wanted an opinion. I know this is somewhat irritating. Sorry dear. noise goes in irc
Re: [dev] any update on stali?
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:30:32PM +, Bjartur Thorlacius wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Strake strake...@gmail.com wrote: * diversify architecturally, e.g. i686, Loongson Why Loongson? He means MIPS.
Re: [dev] a suckless init system?
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:00:03PM +0100, David Tweed wrote: I'll just note that, regardless of code quality, etc, there's the question of what the end-user usability goals for an init system should be. No. An end user should not even be aware init exists. The people an init system has to impress are systems administrators.
Re: [dev] a suckless init system?
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 02:39:43PM +0100, David Tweed wrote: Well, yes-and-no. The end user (who in the case of many linux desktops and laptops is also the sys admin) may not be aware of how things are structured under the hood, but they can perceive laptop X spends a lot of time doing stuff when I turn it on, while laptop Y is usable almost instantly. The only reason I mentioned it (I otherwise try and stay out of religiously tinted discussions was that there was discussion about how to do it but no mention of what the important externally visible (if you don't like end-user) goals should be. For init systems, speed is a natural consequence of correct design. Only an incompetent would have to explicitly list it as a design goal.
Re: [dev] a suckless init system?
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 01:36:55PM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote: Hey all, Recently on the Arch mailing list there has been much discussion of different init systems. I was just wondering which init system, y'all approve of. SysV or OpenRC pretty suckless and unix-y to me. What do you think? Both are crap. openrc in particular is some serious amateur-hour garbage. Crux's init has good bones, but lacks finishing. More distros should focus on using init to bring up the system and then leave userspace daemons to daemontools or such.
Re: Regarding make-systems [Was: Re: [dev] Build system: redo]
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 10:54:15AM -0400, Andrew Hills wrote: Are you insinuating that Go is the best choice for all projects, regardless of requirements? Or just that C is never the right choice? He is saying the language creators should also create build systems. He does not like flexible build tools.
Re: Regarding make-systems [Was: Re: [dev] Build system: redo]
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 12:48:22PM +0300, Ciprian Dorin Craciun wrote: P.S.: Everytime I hear suckless (or pythonic, or the-java-way, or the-unix-way, or the-favorite tool / language-way), it makes me thing of a dogmatic priest chanting his ritual... And most of the time I have the feeling that people use such a phrase when they can't provide a coherent argument, either for or against something, but they feel in their guts that they are right and thus they must be heard... That's part of the reason I like it. When someone says that's not pythonic they mean you're not adhering to python dogma. When someone says that's not suckless, it literally translates to that sucks more than it should. There's no real dogma, it's just a way to identify shitty solutions to problems.
Re: [dev] unsubscribe
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 03:34:57PM -0800, Jon Bradley wrote: dev+unsubscr...@suckless.org almost there!
Re: [dev] Re: Regarding dogma words
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 04:22:57AM +0200, Harry wrote: Don't be too hard on the posts - at least they contain comments... which is more than can be said about the coding. Not suckless is a double negative - do they write code that way? Someone says they don't have to give a because to call something not suckless (i.e. it sucks). Is this the debut of a new if-less programming language? (GIGO) Btw - another word for elitist is prima donna aka snob, depending on the form in which it expressed. Looking forward to more custurd pies being thrown. Harry where are these idiots coming from? this list didn't used to have the endless self-congratulatory navel-gazing
Re: [dev] New friends
On Sun, Aug 05, 2012 at 10:57:03AM +0200, pancake wrote: Every time I read this subject in my inbox I vomit. X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B176)
Re: [dev] [PATCH] sbase: add cut
On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 07:57:38PM +0100, Connor Lane Smith wrote: On 3 August 2012 19:02, Uriel ur...@berlinblue.org wrote: head(1) is utterly and completely idiotic. sed 11q is superior in every possible way. % head -n -10 % sed -e :a -e '$d;N;2,10ba' -e 'P;D' No thanks. cls $ head -n -10 head: illegal line count -- -10
Re: [dev] [PATCH] sbase: add cut
On Sat, Aug 04, 2012 at 01:51:27AM +0100, Connor Lane Smith wrote: I don't know about you, but I'd rather use an effective unportable tool than an ineffective portable one. I'd rather use an effective portable one, and pretending that doesn't exist doesn't help anything.
Re: [dev] [PATCH] sbase: add cut
On Thu, Aug 02, 2012 at 10:33:19AM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote: I think cut is exactly the kind of job that awk (or sed) can be good for. It seems crazy not to use an existing tool that implements all the functionality, that can be nicely bundled in a a script. To be honest, I feel the same way about head(1) -- why bother maintaining C when the tool is obviously a subset of another tool?
Re: [dev] [PATCH] sbase: add cut
On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 08:58:00AM -0400, Niki Yoshiuchi wrote: Why would you use awk or Perl when you have the best programming language available: Ruby? On Aug 1, 2012 8:55 AM, Martin Kopta mar...@kopta.eu wrote: On 08/01/2012 02:36 PM, Uriel wrote: Use awk. Use Perl. I hereby declare this mail thread a disaster area of top-posting and language fanboyism and request immediate dispatch of the vans. Also, I'm really curious why people use cut when awk exists.
Re: [dev] [PATCH] sbase: add cut
On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 07:13:57PM -0400, Steven Blatchford wrote: Give this[0] a read and see what you think. [0] http://awk.freeshell.org/RangeOfFields I think their suggestions are based on 1) deciding to use a shitty version of awk, and 2) the idea that you should give a shit if someone who doesn't know awk is reading your script. I don't understand why sbase should care about either of these things.
Re: [dev] [PATCH] sbase: add cut
On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 07:28:57PM -0400, Steven Blatchford wrote: What is your awk to print fields three and four with this input: 'foo bar baz quz' Depends on what output format I want. Get to the point instead of trying to set me up for failure; I don't have time for this shit
Re: [dev] [PATCH] sbase: add cut
On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 08:33:14PM -0400, Andrew Hills wrote: On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Kurt H Maier khm-suckl...@intma.in wrote: The question is: since cut can be implemented IN awk, why should it get a separate C binary? Anyone nattering about performance in a shell script is barking up the wrong tree. Should sed be excluded? What can you do with sed that you can't do in awk? For that matter, since Perl can do just about everything, if not as quickly or easily, why not support just Perl, and no other tools? --Andrew Hills relax, genius. I'm not proposing that we drop cut. I'm asking why it has to be written in C instead of a higher-level language. sed is not trivial to write in awk. there is nothing you can't do, obviously, because awk is turing-complete. I realize that you're just being a shit, but sed is a text editor, and cut is a thing written for people who couldn't be bothered to learn things. In fact, I'm fairly certain I could implement cut in sed. I'm going to ignore your take the concept to the extreme straw man because it isn't interesting. I'm asking for clear cases where binary cut is obviously superior, and not a bunch of whining because you're used to it being an individual binary. If you can't deliver, maybe Steven Blatchford can?
Re: [dev] New friends
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:10:21PM +0200, hiro wrote: Yay. In the meantime OSS4 is quite usable. No it isn't. ALSA sucks and every step away from it is a good step. Agreed.
Re: [dev] Re: Binary Space Partitioning Window Manager
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 04:26:38PM +0200, Christoph Lohmann wrote: Greetings. On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:26:38 +0200 Christian Neukirchen chneukirc...@gmail.com wrote: Christoph Lohmann 2...@r-36.net writes: On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 13:54:07 +0200 Bastien Dejean nihilh...@gmail.com wrote: Hyphenated plain text is... a catastrophe. No. What are the practical and productivity gains you expect from such features? Easier readability and more pleasing aesthetics. A device that will is‐ sue electric shocks on top posting is just in the legislation process. What is your reallife example where such features would be needed? When communicating with every person I know. Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann what just happened here
Re: [dev] Re: Digest of dev@suckless.org issue 186 (12070-12119)
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 07:52:06PM +0100, Deric Bytes wrote: Unsubscribe No.
Re: [dev] Build system: redo
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 06:53:38PM -0400, Prakhar Goel wrote: Redo will do the same things that make did but better. I think make does the not be written in fucking python thing better. Do you have a patch that addresses this? Thanks, Kurt
Re: [dev] Build system: redo
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 07:42:06PM -0400, Prakhar Goel wrote: So? So mk is a cleaned up make and redo isn't? Not buying it.
Re: [dev] Build system: redo
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 08:14:12PM -0400, Andreas Wagner wrote: The design, not the code. Make refers to the default make on a system which could be GNU Make, BSD Make or whatever. Typically make does not refer to a codebase except maybe the make from UNIX which few have actually used. none of which indicates mk is any more similar to make than redo
Re: [dev] github mirror
On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 12:54:50PM +0200, Kai Hendry wrote: https://github.com/scklss/dwm/graphs/ haha what the hell value is this exactly
Re: [dev] Systems Software Research is Irrelevant
On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 05:39:40PM +0200, Kai Hendry wrote: On the topic of odd finds, anyone heard of http://code.google.com/p/es-operating-system/ ? As we realize ECMAScript/Web based applications are becoming very important and useful, ES operating system has been designed to make the Web Apps APIs as the primary operating system interfaces, hands up who thinks this is anything but completely idiotic The included browser evidently has Acid2 support https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/es-operating-system/8oWtRZnDK_w which is a feat of engineering. acid2 is an arbitrary test case to determine if your browser is capable of doing things that are better done outside a web browser. feat of engineering or no, the founding principles of this operating system are terrifyingly misguided.
Re: [dev] [dmenu] doesn't appear with 2 monitors and no application opened
On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 03:14:40PM -0400, Andrew Hills wrote: On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Uli Armbruster uli.armbrus...@googlemail.com wrote: After booting my laptop with an external monitor connected, I cannot run dmenu_run, it simply doesn't show up. I don't know how to give you more specific informations like terminal output, because as soon as I open a terminal, it works. Usually the output for your window manager (which is where errors will end up) ends up in Xorg.log, or ~/.vnc/[host:port].log if you're running a VNC server. If your window manager is running on a different machine than your X server, though... I have no idea. --Andrew Hills could be ~/.xsession-errors, if you used a login manager. client data isn't recorded in /var/log/Xorg.0.log. if you used startx you can use ctrl+alt+f1 or whatever to switch back to the tty you launched from and get the client output there.
Re: [dev] [surf] port for gtk3
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:54:51AM -0400, Andrew Hills wrote: You must be very proud of yourself? Yes, it is very difficult to use a computer without bloat. It is like a chair without a cushion. No. It is like a chair without a mass spectrometer.
Re: [dev] [ii] exposed password on process monitoring
On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 05:27:00PM +0200, markus schnalke wrote: [2012-06-16 17:00] Nico Golde n...@ngolde.de Thanks for reminding me. ii tip contains a change now so that -k specifies an environment variable containing the password and not the password directly. AFAIR the environment can be displayed, too. I think it was `ps e'. Hence the fix is no fix. A process environment is not necessarily public. Most systems nowadays do not expose process environments by default.
Re: [dev] [ii] exposed password on process monitoring
On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 05:28:14PM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote: Why not just pass the argument from a file? Exec --flag `cat password-file` hahahah
Re: [dev] [ii] exposed password on process monitoring
On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 07:14:06PM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote: On Jun 15, 2012 6:13 PM, Kurt H Maier khm-suckl...@intma.in wrote: On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 05:28:14PM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote: Why not just pass the argument from a file? Exec --flag `cat password-file` hahahah What is so funny? hahahahahah
Re: [dev] unsubscribe
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 04:02:42PM +0200, hiro wrote: Everyone who participates in unsubscribe gets the chance to win 10 Bitcoins. I won't *not* unsuccessfully unsubscribe.
Re: [dev] dwm: XKeycodeToKeysym deprecated patch
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 01:12:58PM +0100, Rob wrote: You were arguing that it's bad because it's the latest mandate. No, I'm arguing that it's bad because it introduces more shit, and nobody has yet been able to explain what benefit that cost brings. I call subtle trolling I call terrible reading comprehension
Re: [dev] dwm: XKeycodeToKeysym deprecated patch
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 09:41:46PM -0400, James Turner wrote: XKeycodeToKeysym was deprecated on 2011-10-10 [0]. The included patch updates dwm.c to use XkbKeycodeToKeysym instead. Is there any benefit to this other than introducing xkb as a dependency? We don't all run dwm on the latest freedesktop mandate.
Re: [dev] dwm: XKeycodeToKeysym deprecated patch
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 09:52:10PM -0400, James Turner wrote: XKBlib.h has been around since 1993 is an extra header file really that bad? Are you arguing that it's good code because it's old code?
Re: [dev] recommend suckless mail server
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 12:18:41PM +0200, sta...@cs.tu-berlin.de wrote: Hi, Can anyone suggest a suckless mail server? We need encrypted IMAP and SMTP. Or a suckless tool chain which achieves the above (e.g. instead SSL aware IMAP server, rsync a maildir from server machine to local machine) Thanks for any suggestions where to look into or if you share your experience.. qmail is what I use. I know plenty of people who have magical recipes involving that, dovecot, and tons of other tools. There is no good answer. Maybe Christoph will release rohrpost, if that's an actual thing, and not just a header modification in his copy of Applemail. I recommend you start by reading lifewithqmail or such, so you can understand the scope of the pain in the ass you're in for. The advantage to qmail is you can tar the whole thing up and drop it on another machine if you need to; other MTAs tend to scatter shit all over the filesystem. If you can get away with it, absolutely avoid IMAP and running an SMTP service. That will get you involved with the nightmare of extortion and shitty programming that comprises current SSL implementations. I recommend people just get shell access to the mailhost. The sysadmin should just install all the MUAs supported by your operating system and let the users use whatever the hell they're comfortable with; there are no good MUAs. People who insist on using phones or desktop mail clients can use things like maildirsync to bring their mail to the local system, or else forward their mail to whatever garbage they currently use. You can investigate opensmtpd, which the openbsd people are developing. It's supposedly nearing a stable release. I don't use it because there are some missing pieces I rely on; however, it may suit your needs.
Re: [dev] [ii] exposed password on process monitoring
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 02:52:17AM +0300, Ivan Kanakarakis wrote: dah $ ps e -C ii | grep -o IIPASS=[^ ]* IIPASS=foobar I am mildly convinced that other users cannot see env data with ps -e. I am also vaguely determined that on linux this information comes from /proc/$PID/environ and is thus controlled by that file's mode. If not, we should write a better ps.
Re: [dev] [ii] exposed password on process monitoring
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 09:05:07PM +0300, Ivan Kanakarakis wrote: what's the difference between PASS and identify ? both are used to register the user to the server. afaict PASS is sent by the client before the nick/user is set so when the user connects he's already registered. afaik irssi doesnt do that, but provides -autosendcmd you can't t f enough. pass use used as a connection password, and has no username associated with it, and is not necessarily unique per-user.
Re: [dev] [ii] exposed password on process monitoring
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:27:04PM +0200, Truls Becken wrote: So for the user they seem to have the same effect. Perhaps 2) is partly the reason they do 1), by the way. Let's not make the fantastically naive mistake of assuming this userbase is sufficiently large to comprise a statistical universe, much less begin throwing pompous shit about the user into this discussion. You have absolutely no proof that such servers are the most popular and no reason to claim shitty server-specific behavior is any reason to start crapping all over things defined in an actual RFC. Finally, ii is not necessarily even something the user would ever actually see, since there are tons of front-ends to this. This is connection software. Let it manager connections. Nickserv is post-connection spam involving PRIVMSG. Make no mistake.
Re: [dev] simple dhcp client
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 09:59:05AM +0800, Kai Hendry wrote: I know this is very lazy of me, though it would be good if you could have hints how to integrate it say with a typical Archlinux system and its /etc/network.d https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netcfg for the love of christ, don't turn this into a 'how do I arch linux' thread. learn how your distribution works or use a different distribution. the generic answer is you replace dhcpcd with this. if you don't know what dhcpcd is then please ask somewhere else.
Re: [dev] simple dhcp client
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 05:40:31PM -0500, Galos, David wrote: I've written a simple (~500 lines) dhcp client, using the plan9 client as reference. It compiles statically to between 8 and 30K depending on libc, and gets me onto all the networks I've thrown at it, but that's a terribly small list. I thought it might be of use to the people here. The source is at galos.no-ip.org/sdhcp.tar.gz or galos.no-ip.org/sdhcp-helper.tar.gz depending on whether you think a pipe-fed helper-script is a good idea. The manpage, and galos.no-ip.org/sdhcp both have more information. This is good work. I've tested it on about six networks so far and nothing blew up. I'll test it on the enterprisey ridiculous network at the office tomorrow. Two things: 1) do you have a public repository? If not, I'm sure we can get you on hg.suckless, or if you prefer git I can set you up on my server. 2) how do you feel about bringing this back to the c89 standard? I realize this isn't a trivial process, but you should join #suckless on oftc if you're interested in discussing it. ping kfx or cls about this topic, please. Thanks again, this is good!
Re: [dev] sbase - seq.c: help wanted
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 05:30:05PM -0500, Galos, David wrote: I'm confused about why we need to use a regular expression here. We can do this with a few loops and some ifs. Using regexes in seq(1) really, really concerns me. It was really me being lazy-- my evil plan was to pretend that everyone was cool with them unless someone spoke up. Curses! I'm fine with regular expressions. In sed. And awk. And perl. Even grep! Not in C.
Re: [dev] st utf8 printing
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 03:12:26PM +0100, Connor Lane Smith wrote: vim *is* a GUI. It's not a line editor, is it? libcurses is a GUI toolkit too, it just happens to abstract over the hack that is ANSI escapes. libcurses is a hack that abstracts over every single character-addressing hack ever devised.
Re: [dev] Twinview
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 08:59:48AM -0400, Bryan Bennett wrote: I find that NVidia's blob driver supports twinview MUCH better than it does vanilla xinerama. My recommendation if you're using the blob is Twinview. Obviously, if using Nouveau Xinerama is the only option. You can't have monitors with different aspect ratios with twinview; therefore, I run with xinerama. I have one screen in portrait mode. I have used dwm in this configuration for at least five years.
Re: [dev] [slock] Issue with shadow passwords and NIS
On Sun, Apr 08, 2012 at 11:56:01PM +, Bjartur Thorlacius wrote: Slock should use a high-level authentication interface that will perform whatever authentication the site administrator requires. How much does this list hate or love PAM? PAM can get stuffed, but there's no reason slock can't have a patch on the wiki.
Re: [dev] [dwm] drop the bars (was: systray in upstream dwm?)
On Fri, Apr 06, 2012 at 07:41:56AM +0200, Jan Christoph Ebersbach wrote: Why don't we drop the bars and keybindings and let separate programs handle it. Because then dwm would have to have a custom protocol to describe tag state to panels, which would then presumably have to poll an interface to keep up to date. It makes more sense for the tag list and the title area to be built into dwm. There are also other patches like Xft that show that there is a need for choice and extension. Building everything into dwm is not a good idea, agreed. There is already 'choice and extension.' If there weren't, bad ideas like the xft patch would not exist. So let's create a proper interface for dwm that other programs can use. This was called wmii -- the Rasputin of window managers. It took forever to die. Better to drop the status area from dwm and resurrect some early version of dzen; I recall when that started it was a status area program and not a full gui toolkit.
[dev] [patch] sbase - test.c
This just fixes a trivial compiler warning.
diff -r 02cb0c700e64 test.c
--- a/test.c Sat Feb 04 01:16:18 2012 +
+++ b/test.c Fri Apr 06 21:43:48 2012 -0400
@@ -16,7 +16,7 @@
int
main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
- bool ret, not = false;
+ bool ret = false, not = false;
progname = argv[0];
Re: [dev] [dwm] systray in upstream dwm?
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 02:24:20AM -0600, Jeremy Jackins wrote: On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 2:12 AM, KIMURA Masaru hiyuh.r...@gmail.com wrote: however in my opinion a system tray is not necessary and should not be added to mainline. if you don't mind my asking, explain why? just curious. Necessity needs justification, not the other way around. This is correct, but in this case there's a simple answer anyway. System trays are a bandaid meant to address flaws in a faulty interface metaphorr: you don't need a quick-access tool if you're not using a stacked/floating window layout.
Re: [dev] [dwm] systray in upstream dwm?
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Manolo Martínez wrote: (I don't use systrays, but still:) How so? If you have, say, six windows per tag quick access might be useful. One can have a use policy that avoids this, but such use policies are not enforced by a tiling interface. If you need quick access to a specific window, you give it its own tag. Or you tag all the windows you'd normally cram into a system tray. Then you have the full power of the window manager to access them, instead of having to mouse into some ridiculously tiny picture on the corner of the screen. Tags are not workspaces. They can be dynamically assigned. I suspect there are two reasons people use system tray garbage with dwm: 1) They are not using dwm properly. These are the sorts of people who think pertag patches are a good idea. 2) They are using some piece of software designed with only that bad workflow in mind, and don't realize they don't need one. Skype, for instance, works fine without a system tray icon.
Re: [dev] [dwm] systray in upstream dwm?
On Wed, Apr 04, 2012 at 10:29:14PM +0200, Jan Christoph Ebersbach wrote: Hi, What needs to be done to get the systray patch upstream into dwm? Is there any chance of getting it upstream or is it a total no go? The patch proved to be stable and I continued to refine it over last week. Please let me know in case you discover any issues. Jan Christoph This message was sent using Zarafa WebApp. everything about this message is hilarious.
Re: [dev] C talk
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 06:08:03PM -0500, Calvin Morrison wrote: pointers... avoid mentioning pointers at all costs :-) Sure. Also avoid mentioning int, char, float, preprocessing, compiling, and functions.
Re: [dev] Shared resource files
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 01:01:39PM +0100, Christoph Lohmann wrote: with svkbd I'm running into a dilemma. It really sucks to have to compile svkdb with every keymap, which produces too many binaries that are lying around. Throw away all of your keyboards except one.
Re: [dev] regarding surf and cookie handling
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 05:28:34PM +0100, Christoph Lohmann wrote: *BSD has kqueues, but I'm lacking information, if there are any kqueue utils like inotifywait(1). FAM or a FAM-line solution is the only portable solution. gamin, iirc, uses inotify on linux and kqueues on BSD.
Re: [dev] regarding surf and cookie handling
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 01:34:07PM -0500, Calvin Morrison wrote: Because surf is a non-tabbed editor the doesn't seek the same goals as mine? yeah that's probably why. This browser was a weekend project which i spent some time hacking on, not a full browser not intended to be. http://tools.suckless.org/tabbed Thanks for the indentation style input. Luckily I don't have to work with you so i'm not to bothered. As for a surf clone, when did surf become the end all of webkit browsers? my browser is /not/ surf and it's /not/ intended to be. What is your beef? you seem upset. stop it Can we get a on-topic answer that doesn't spew off-topic rants? no
Re: [dev] regarding surf and cookie handling
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 02:07:28PM -0500, Calvin Morrison wrote: I suppose it shows the attitude of the list. what it shows is some self-righteous thin-skinned internet guy I was merely posting here to point out something possibly helpful. I guess that warrants an attack on myself. you were posting here to show the list your browser project. you failed to convince anyone you were posting useful code. did you even search the list archives before you posted? no, of course not. all that matters is whatever the hell you're talking about at the moment. Goodbye, good riddance,
Re: [dev] Wayland
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 04:15:54PM +0100, Bernhard Leiner wrote: I attended the talk and as far as I understood it, the Weston reference compositor will provide some kind of interface that can be used by alternative window managers. There was a question in that direction at the end of the talk. I'm sure there will be shitloads of interfaces that can be used, and once again 90% of software released will require certain parts of wayland and ignore others. As far as I can tell the only positive thing anyone has to say about wayland is it isn't X. I'm not entirely sure it's worth trading network transparency for ground-floor compositing... but hopefully we'll at least get some video drivers out of it that work without x11. Oh, and it only works without x11 on linux. Hooray. (I know someone will say but that's just weston! someone could implement wayland on any platform! but all that means is we have another set of software like gnome and everything poettering ever wrote, where linux usually works and every other posix system is an also-ran.) In short, wayland manages to push everything including rendering onto the client, which means it's just going to get harder to write graphical programs without a toolkit. I regard this as a major flaw; this 'design decision' can only be the product of either laziness or poor judgment. If you're going to write a gui, at least have the sack to write a whole gui.
Re: [dev] Wayland
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 03:52:01PM +, Nick wrote:
I disagree, presuming I understood you correctly. You just
draw stuff straight into an OpenGL buffer. Or get your
toolkit to do that. How is this not a reasonable thing to
do?
Because it's the same attitude that makes X11 and terminal interfaces
suck. Just draw stuff straight into {Xlib, terminal}. Or get
{ncurses, gtk, qt, sdl, fltk, tk, whatever} to do that. What you wind
up with is either lowest-common-denominator shit like ncurses, which
makes everything suck, or you get little qt/gtk circlejerks, which makes
everything suck in different ways, or else you get both, and wxwidgets
is possibly the suckest of them all.
Re: [dev] Adventures with static linking
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 09:55:50PM +, Bjartur Thorlacius wrote: Do you intend to compile all modules you might use into a single perl binary? Or just enough to compile stuff, and then stick to shell scripts and Lisp? Perl has facilities to easily embed modules. In my opinion, the best one is staticperl: http://search.cpan.org/~mlehmann/App-Staticperl-1.4/bin/staticperl
Re: [dev] stest review
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 03:39:35PM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: It's quite consistent in most suckless tools actually. One difference I stumbled upon is exactly stest, because it uses the clunky getopt() approach and I really wonder why it needs so many flags. sbase uses getopt and I suspect will continue to do so. it's all very well to go on about 'too much choice' but it's hard enough to get people to implement fundamental unix utilities without also demanding they jump through option parsing hoops for no technical reason. if you like for() stuff so much, why not put it into a function and stuff that into a library? maybe call it getopt?
Re: [dev] init
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 01:28:21PM +0100, hiro wrote: when I want an init but no busybox, what should I use? daemontools: http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html minit: http://www.fefe.de/minit/ twsinit: http://www.energymech.net/users/proton/ runit: http://smarden.org/runit/ hope this helps. most of these things link to other similar things.
