[Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
I sent this message out to the Click people this weekend to encourage them to discuss possible incubation at the ASF. I offered to be Champion and I'd say that Velocity will be the sponsoring PMC. There is notion that Click will go to top-level but it might as well end up as part of Velocity. This is basically a FYI, until the Click community decided where to go, there is not much to do for us (I think) to encourage them and be helpful if questions arise. Best regards Henning Forwarded Message > From: Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: Malcolm Edgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software > Foundation > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:36:51 +0100 > > Hi, > > this message goes out to the Apache Velocity PMC and the Click > Development list. For those of you who do not know anything about me > (probably most Click developers not directly involved with Velocity), I > am the current chair of the project management committee (PMC) of the > Apache Velocity project. > > End of last year, we discussed with Malcolm Edgar about opportunities to > bring Click to the Apache Software Foundation in general and > specifically to the Velocity project. > > I would like to review this now and if we agree that this is a good > thing, prepare to start the incubation process. > > Personally, I'm very much in favor of doing this. > > What must be understood however, before we kick off the process to bring > Click in, is that the ASF is interested in communities more than code. > > Which means, that the most important thing for us is to get acceptance > and embrace from the people who currently *are* the Click community. The > ASF is not a big vacuum cleaner that sucks in code and slaps an ASF logo > and the feather brand on top of it. > > What we (the "Apache people") request from "you" (the "Click people") > now, is that you form consensus. I reviewed your mailing lists and there > was mixed discussion about this move and I found no consensus. So this > would be needed first before any of the incubation process could start. > > I did read some points about bureaucracy. The following list is a > personal compilation and should not be seen as canonical: > > * Yes, the ASF has some of that. We are not just an open source >project. There is some legalese involved and we do offer a >legal protection umbrella for our projects. This also means, that >there are some rules for dependencies and releases that we are >quite adamant about. > > * No, the foundation does not play into your project. If you run > your project fast and loose, we let you do so most of the time. > > * No, as a developer / committer, the bureaucracy does not touch > you most of the times. It is the job of the people serving on the > entities of the foundation (like the PMC) to provide oversight and > guidance to any project. Joining a PMC is a voluntary act and while > most developers choose to do so at some point, there are some that > say no. > > * Yes, as a developer, there are harder rules to e.g. dependencies > inside the ASF than outside. You do have to play by the rules, there > are no exceptions. The rules sometimes change, though. As a part > of the foundation you *can* influence these changes. > > * Yes, as a developer / committer, you *must* sign a formal CLA before > you can work on a project. Even if you already have commit rights to > the project. This is a formal requirement and part of the incubation > process and also an one-step thing (you fill out a form, fax it in). > > * Yes and no, incubation can be a drag. It is a formal process and it > works as well as the people involved. If a project drags incubation, > this is not the fault of the foundation. We had projects whiz through > it in a few (1-3) months, we have projects in there for years. > If Click joins the ASF, I intend to do the former, not the latter. > Please understand, that every incubation is different. Experiences > from another project are no indication for the next project. YMMV. > > For those of you interested in the incubation process, there is a > summary on > http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html > > There is a lot of boring stuff in there, but then again, this is more a > formal process than anything else and this process is normally done by > the mentors and a few selected members of the project development > community. It does not touch or influence any users and developers that > do not want to be involved in incubation. > > Interesting might be the flow chart of the incubation steps. > Click ATM would be "pre-candidate" state. > > As current PMC chair of Velocity, I'd volunteer as your "Incubation > champion" and the Velocity project would be the sponsoring project for > Click. Whether at the
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
Henning, Let us know what we can do to help out as things develop. WILL On 3/26/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I sent this message out to the Click people this weekend to encourage them to discuss possible incubation at the ASF. I offered to be Champion and I'd say that Velocity will be the sponsoring PMC. There is notion that Click will go to top-level but it might as well end up as part of Velocity. This is basically a FYI, until the Click community decided where to go, there is not much to do for us (I think) to encourage them and be helpful if questions arise. Best regards Henning Forwarded Message > From: Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: Malcolm Edgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software > Foundation > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:36:51 +0100 > > Hi, > > this message goes out to the Apache Velocity PMC and the Click > Development list. For those of you who do not know anything about me > (probably most Click developers not directly involved with Velocity), I > am the current chair of the project management committee (PMC) of the > Apache Velocity project. > > End of last year, we discussed with Malcolm Edgar about opportunities to > bring Click to the Apache Software Foundation in general and > specifically to the Velocity project. > > I would like to review this now and if we agree that this is a good > thing, prepare to start the incubation process. > > Personally, I'm very much in favor of doing this. > > What must be understood however, before we kick off the process to bring > Click in, is that the ASF is interested in communities more than code. > > Which means, that the most important thing for us is to get acceptance > and embrace from the people who currently *are* the Click community. The > ASF is not a big vacuum cleaner that sucks in code and slaps an ASF logo > and the feather brand on top of it. > > What we (the "Apache people") request from "you" (the "Click people") > now, is that you form consensus. I reviewed your mailing lists and there > was mixed discussion about this move and I found no consensus. So this > would be needed first before any of the incubation process could start. > > I did read some points about bureaucracy. The following list is a > personal compilation and should not be seen as canonical: > > * Yes, the ASF has some of that. We are not just an open source >project. There is some legalese involved and we do offer a >legal protection umbrella for our projects. This also means, that >there are some rules for dependencies and releases that we are >quite adamant about. > > * No, the foundation does not play into your project. If you run > your project fast and loose, we let you do so most of the time. > > * No, as a developer / committer, the bureaucracy does not touch > you most of the times. It is the job of the people serving on the > entities of the foundation (like the PMC) to provide oversight and > guidance to any project. Joining a PMC is a voluntary act and while > most developers choose to do so at some point, there are some that > say no. > > * Yes, as a developer, there are harder rules to e.g. dependencies > inside the ASF than outside. You do have to play by the rules, there > are no exceptions. The rules sometimes change, though. As a part > of the foundation you *can* influence these changes. > > * Yes, as a developer / committer, you *must* sign a formal CLA before > you can work on a project. Even if you already have commit rights to > the project. This is a formal requirement and part of the incubation > process and also an one-step thing (you fill out a form, fax it in). > > * Yes and no, incubation can be a drag. It is a formal process and it > works as well as the people involved. If a project drags incubation, > this is not the fault of the foundation. We had projects whiz through > it in a few (1-3) months, we have projects in there for years. > If Click joins the ASF, I intend to do the former, not the latter. > Please understand, that every incubation is different. Experiences > from another project are no indication for the next project. YMMV. > > For those of you interested in the incubation process, there is a > summary on > http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html > > There is a lot of boring stuff in there, but then again, this is more a > formal process than anything else and this process is normally done by > the mentors and a few selected members of the project development > community. It does not touch or influence any users and developers that > do not want to be involved in incubation. > > Interesting might be the flow chart of the incubation steps. > Click ATM would be "pre-candidate" state. > > As current PMC chair of Velocity, I'd volunteer as your
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
Hi, that is really good news. Congratulations to the Click Community to be willing to take this step! Our next step will be now to start drafting up a proposal. I'd suggest that we do so on the Velocity Wiki (unless Click has its own Wiki somewhere). As said before, I'd volunteer as Champion. We also need a number of mentors (as I just got drafted into a proposal on the Incubator, three seems to be a good number), of which one *must* be an ASF member. So we need some volunteers here. More later, I will have to read up on the exact rules myself. :-) Best regards Henning On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 22:12 +1000, Malcolm Edgar wrote: > Hi All, > > The Click move to Apache vote is in. We have a positive vote, with 1 > abstention and 4 positive votes. > > [ 0 ] Ahmed Mohombe > > [+1] Malcolm Edgar > > [+1] Bob Schellink > > [+1] Stephen Haberman > > [+1] Naoki Takezoe > > So I would like to move forward to the Apache incubation process for Click. > > As I imagine the incubation process will take some time, I propose to > have a sourceforge Click 1.3 release, before an Apache Click release. > > If the Apache migration is accepted, I don't think we should fork the > code base maintaining parallel sourceforge and apache branches, as the > overhead would be prohibitive. > > regards Malcolm Edgar > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
I volunteer. (and as you know, I'm an ASF member). Will On 4/3/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, that is really good news. Congratulations to the Click Community to be willing to take this step! Our next step will be now to start drafting up a proposal. I'd suggest that we do so on the Velocity Wiki (unless Click has its own Wiki somewhere). As said before, I'd volunteer as Champion. We also need a number of mentors (as I just got drafted into a proposal on the Incubator, three seems to be a good number), of which one *must* be an ASF member. So we need some volunteers here. More later, I will have to read up on the exact rules myself. :-) Best regards Henning On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 22:12 +1000, Malcolm Edgar wrote: > Hi All, > > The Click move to Apache vote is in. We have a positive vote, with 1 > abstention and 4 positive votes. > > [ 0 ] Ahmed Mohombe > > [+1] Malcolm Edgar > > [+1] Bob Schellink > > [+1] Stephen Haberman > > [+1] Naoki Takezoe > > So I would like to move forward to the Apache incubation process for Click. > > As I imagine the incubation process will take some time, I propose to > have a sourceforge Click 1.3 release, before an Apache Click release. > > If the Apache migration is accepted, I don't think we should fork the > code base maintaining parallel sourceforge and apache branches, as the > overhead would be prohibitive. > > regards Malcolm Edgar > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Forio Business Simulations Will Glass-Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.forio.com
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
Thanks Henning and Will, I appreciate your support. regards Malcolm Edgar On 4/4/07, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I volunteer. (and as you know, I'm an ASF member). Will On 4/3/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > that is really good news. Congratulations to the Click Community to be > willing to take this step! > > Our next step will be now to start drafting up a proposal. I'd suggest > that we do so on the Velocity Wiki (unless Click has its own Wiki > somewhere). > > As said before, I'd volunteer as Champion. We also need a number of > mentors (as I just got drafted into a proposal on the Incubator, three > seems to be a good number), of which one *must* be an ASF member. So we > need some volunteers here. > > More later, I will have to read up on the exact rules myself. :-) > > Best regards > Henning > > > On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 22:12 +1000, Malcolm Edgar wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > The Click move to Apache vote is in. We have a positive vote, with 1 > > abstention and 4 positive votes. > > > > [ 0 ] Ahmed Mohombe > > > > [+1] Malcolm Edgar > > > > [+1] Bob Schellink > > > > [+1] Stephen Haberman > > > > [+1] Naoki Takezoe > > > > So I would like to move forward to the Apache incubation process for > Click. > > > > As I imagine the incubation process will take some time, I propose to > > have a sourceforge Click 1.3 release, before an Apache Click release. > > > > If the Apache migration is accepted, I don't think we should fork the > > code base maintaining parallel sourceforge and apache branches, as the > > overhead would be prohibitive. > > > > regards Malcolm Edgar > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Forio Business Simulations Will Glass-Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.forio.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
Hi, thanks. According to the current discussion on [EMAIL PROTECTED], it seems that actually all mentors must be members. As Daniel and Geir are currently probably pretty busy, we will have to recruit someone from outside Velocity to help. Best regards Henning On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 15:57 -0700, Will Glass-Husain wrote: > I volunteer. (and as you know, I'm an ASF member). > > Will > > On 4/3/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > that is really good news. Congratulations to the Click Community to be > > willing to take this step! > > > > Our next step will be now to start drafting up a proposal. I'd suggest > > that we do so on the Velocity Wiki (unless Click has its own Wiki > > somewhere). > > > > As said before, I'd volunteer as Champion. We also need a number of > > mentors (as I just got drafted into a proposal on the Incubator, three > > seems to be a good number), of which one *must* be an ASF member. So we > > need some volunteers here. > > > > More later, I will have to read up on the exact rules myself. :-) > > > > Best regards > > Henning > > > > > > On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 22:12 +1000, Malcolm Edgar wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > > > The Click move to Apache vote is in. We have a positive vote, with 1 > > > abstention and 4 positive votes. > > > > > > [ 0 ] Ahmed Mohombe > > > > > > [+1] Malcolm Edgar > > > > > > [+1] Bob Schellink > > > > > > [+1] Stephen Haberman > > > > > > [+1] Naoki Takezoe > > > > > > So I would like to move forward to the Apache incubation process for > > Click. > > > > > > As I imagine the incubation process will take some time, I propose to > > > have a sourceforge Click 1.3 release, before an Apache Click release. > > > > > > If the Apache migration is accepted, I don't think we should fork the > > > code base maintaining parallel sourceforge and apache branches, as the > > > overhead would be prohibitive. > > > > > > regards Malcolm Edgar > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
yeah, sorry - I have zero time right now... On Apr 6, 2007, at 11:20 AM, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: Hi, thanks. According to the current discussion on [EMAIL PROTECTED], it seems that actually all mentors must be members. As Daniel and Geir are currently probably pretty busy, we will have to recruit someone from outside Velocity to help. Best regards Henning On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 15:57 -0700, Will Glass-Husain wrote: I volunteer. (and as you know, I'm an ASF member). Will On 4/3/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, that is really good news. Congratulations to the Click Community to be willing to take this step! Our next step will be now to start drafting up a proposal. I'd suggest that we do so on the Velocity Wiki (unless Click has its own Wiki somewhere). As said before, I'd volunteer as Champion. We also need a number of mentors (as I just got drafted into a proposal on the Incubator, three seems to be a good number), of which one *must* be an ASF member. So we need some volunteers here. More later, I will have to read up on the exact rules myself. :-) Best regards Henning On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 22:12 +1000, Malcolm Edgar wrote: Hi All, The Click move to Apache vote is in. We have a positive vote, with 1 abstention and 4 positive votes. [ 0 ] Ahmed Mohombe [+1] Malcolm Edgar [+1] Bob Schellink [+1] Stephen Haberman [+1] Naoki Takezoe So I would like to move forward to the Apache incubation process for Click. As I imagine the incubation process will take some time, I propose to have a sourceforge Click 1.3 release, before an Apache Click release. If the Apache migration is accepted, I don't think we should fork the code base maintaining parallel sourceforge and apache branches, as the overhead would be prohibitive. regards Malcolm Edgar --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
I'd like to volunteer as a Mentor for for Click. -Ted. On 4/6/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, thanks. According to the current discussion on [EMAIL PROTECTED], it seems that actually all mentors must be members. As Daniel and Geir are currently probably pretty busy, we will have to recruit someone from outside Velocity to help. Best regards Henning - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
Thank you, Ted! Happy Easter! Henning On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 17:00 -0400, Ted Husted wrote: > I'd like to volunteer as a Mentor for for Click. > > -Ted. > > On 4/6/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > thanks. According to the current discussion on [EMAIL PROTECTED], it > > seems that actually all mentors must be members. As Daniel and Geir are > > currently probably pretty busy, we will have to recruit someone from > > outside Velocity to help. > > > > Best regards > > Henning - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
Hi Ted, thanks for your support. regards Malcolm Edgar On 4/8/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thank you, Ted! Happy Easter! Henning On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 17:00 -0400, Ted Husted wrote: > I'd like to volunteer as a Mentor for for Click. > > -Ted. > > On 4/6/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > thanks. According to the current discussion on [EMAIL PROTECTED], it > > seems that actually all mentors must be members. As Daniel and Geir are > > currently probably pretty busy, we will have to recruit someone from > > outside Velocity to help. > > > > Best regards > > Henning - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Incubation of the Click Project at the Apache Software Foundation]
If we would like to move the discussion back to the Click list, there are some things that we could do in preparation for the proposal. This will be my fourth trip through the Incubator, and I'd like to see if we can set a record. :) -Ted. On 4/9/07, Malcolm Edgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Ted, thanks for your support. regards Malcolm Edgar On 4/8/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thank you, Ted! > >Happy Easter! >Henning > > On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 17:00 -0400, Ted Husted wrote: > > I'd like to volunteer as a Mentor for for Click. > > > > -Ted. > > > > On 4/6/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > thanks. According to the current discussion on [EMAIL PROTECTED], it > > > seems that actually all mentors must be members. As Daniel and Geir are > > > currently probably pretty busy, we will have to recruit someone from > > > outside Velocity to help. > > > > > > Best regards > > > Henning - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
