Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support
I'm not making any claims other than pointing out that the upgrade is possible for some users, and its a workaround we can give in SUMO. I have no other irons in this fire, just making sure we know the workarounds (and how accessible they are) is an important piece of this decision. As has been stated in this thread already, not all these users can update, not all will, but they likely are some that just haven't gotten around to it where upgrading is a good workaround. On 3/10/16, Trevor Saunders <tbsau...@tbsaunde.org> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 04:01:15PM -0700, Tyler Downer wrote: >> The other thing to note is many of those users can still update to 10.11, >> and I imagine that over the next year that number will continue to go >> down. > > given they haven't upgraded from 10.6 - 10.8 why do you believe they are > likely to in the future? > > Trev > >> This also provides a decent workaround that our support community can >> recommend in documentation and the forums. >> >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Ryan VanderMeulen < >> rvandermeu...@mozilla.com> wrote: >> >> > 25% is pretty close for 10.6-10.8 combined. However, the current >> > proposal >> > includes security patches for nearly a year still (putting them on the >> > ESR45 train), so construing this as abandoning those users seems like >> > it's >> > going a bit far. >> > >> > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Mike Hommey <m...@glandium.org> wrote: >> > >> >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 01:03:43PM -0500, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: >> >> > This is notice of an intent to deprecate support within Firefox for >> >> > the >> >> > following old versions of MacOS: 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8 >> >> > >> >> > The motivation for this change is that we have continued failures >> >> > that >> >> are >> >> > specific to these old operating systems and don't have the resources >> >> > on >> >> > engineering teams to prioritize these bugs. Especially with the >> >> deployment >> >> > of e10s we're seeing intermittent and permanently failures on MacOS >> >> > 10.6 >> >> > that we are not seeing elsewhere. We get very little testing of old >> >> MacOS >> >> > versions from our prerelease testers and cannot dedicate much paid >> >> > staff >> >> > testing support to these platforms. We also have an increasingly >> >> fragile set >> >> > of old hardware that supports automated tests on 10.6 and do not >> >> > intend >> >> to >> >> > replace this. >> >> > >> >> > This will affect approximately 1.2% of our current release >> >> > population. >> >> Here >> >> > are the specific breakdowns by OS version: >> >> > >> >> > 10.6 >> >> > 0.66% >> >> > 10.7 >> >> > 0.38% >> >> > 10.8 >> >> > 0.18% >> >> >> >> It's unfair to mention those populations by percentage of the global >> >> Firefox population. What are those percentages relative to the number >> >> of >> >> OSX users? ISTR 10.6 represented something like 25% of the OSX users, >> >> which is a totally different story (but maybe I'm mixing things with >> >> Windows XP). >> >> >> >> Mike >> >> ___ >> >> firefox-dev mailing list >> >> firefox-...@mozilla.org >> >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev >> >> >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > firefox-dev mailing list >> > firefox-...@mozilla.org >> > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Tyler Downer >> Project Manager, User Advocacy >> ___ >> dev-platform mailing list >> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform > -- Tyler Downer Project Manager, User Advocacy ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support
That brings up a point, if a user is on 10.8, gets moved to ESR 45, and later moves to 10.11, will they be stuck on ESR still? On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Tyler Downer <tdow...@mozilla.com> wrote: > The other thing to note is many of those users can still update to 10.11, > and I imagine that over the next year that number will continue to go down. > This also provides a decent workaround that our support community can > recommend in documentation and the forums. > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Ryan VanderMeulen < > rvandermeu...@mozilla.com> wrote: > >> 25% is pretty close for 10.6-10.8 combined. However, the current proposal >> includes security patches for nearly a year still (putting them on the >> ESR45 train), so construing this as abandoning those users seems like it's >> going a bit far. >> >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Mike Hommey <m...@glandium.org> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 01:03:43PM -0500, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: >>> > This is notice of an intent to deprecate support within Firefox for the >>> > following old versions of MacOS: 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8 >>> > >>> > The motivation for this change is that we have continued failures that >>> are >>> > specific to these old operating systems and don't have the resources on >>> > engineering teams to prioritize these bugs. Especially with the >>> deployment >>> > of e10s we're seeing intermittent and permanently failures on MacOS >>> 10.6 >>> > that we are not seeing elsewhere. We get very little testing of old >>> MacOS >>> > versions from our prerelease testers and cannot dedicate much paid >>> staff >>> > testing support to these platforms. We also have an increasingly >>> fragile set >>> > of old hardware that supports automated tests on 10.6 and do not >>> intend to >>> > replace this. >>> > >>> > This will affect approximately 1.2% of our current release population. >>> Here >>> > are the specific breakdowns by OS version: >>> > >>> > 10.6 >>> > 0.66% >>> > 10.7 >>> > 0.38% >>> > 10.8 >>> > 0.18% >>> >>> It's unfair to mention those populations by percentage of the global >>> Firefox population. What are those percentages relative to the number of >>> OSX users? ISTR 10.6 represented something like 25% of the OSX users, >>> which is a totally different story (but maybe I'm mixing things with >>> Windows XP). >>> >>> Mike >>> ___ >>> firefox-dev mailing list >>> firefox-...@mozilla.org >>> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev >>> >> >> >> ___ >> firefox-dev mailing list >> firefox-...@mozilla.org >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev >> >> > > > -- > Tyler Downer > Project Manager, User Advocacy > -- Tyler Downer Project Manager, User Advocacy ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support
The other thing to note is many of those users can still update to 10.11, and I imagine that over the next year that number will continue to go down. This also provides a decent workaround that our support community can recommend in documentation and the forums. On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Ryan VanderMeulen < rvandermeu...@mozilla.com> wrote: > 25% is pretty close for 10.6-10.8 combined. However, the current proposal > includes security patches for nearly a year still (putting them on the > ESR45 train), so construing this as abandoning those users seems like it's > going a bit far. > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Mike Hommey <m...@glandium.org> wrote: > >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 01:03:43PM -0500, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: >> > This is notice of an intent to deprecate support within Firefox for the >> > following old versions of MacOS: 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8 >> > >> > The motivation for this change is that we have continued failures that >> are >> > specific to these old operating systems and don't have the resources on >> > engineering teams to prioritize these bugs. Especially with the >> deployment >> > of e10s we're seeing intermittent and permanently failures on MacOS 10.6 >> > that we are not seeing elsewhere. We get very little testing of old >> MacOS >> > versions from our prerelease testers and cannot dedicate much paid staff >> > testing support to these platforms. We also have an increasingly >> fragile set >> > of old hardware that supports automated tests on 10.6 and do not intend >> to >> > replace this. >> > >> > This will affect approximately 1.2% of our current release population. >> Here >> > are the specific breakdowns by OS version: >> > >> > 10.6 >> > 0.66% >> > 10.7 >> > 0.38% >> > 10.8 >> > 0.18% >> >> It's unfair to mention those populations by percentage of the global >> Firefox population. What are those percentages relative to the number of >> OSX users? ISTR 10.6 represented something like 25% of the OSX users, >> which is a totally different story (but maybe I'm mixing things with >> Windows XP). >> >> Mike >> ___ >> firefox-dev mailing list >> firefox-...@mozilla.org >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev >> > > > ___ > firefox-dev mailing list > firefox-...@mozilla.org > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev > > -- Tyler Downer Project Manager, User Advocacy ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
