Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support
On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 8:07:05 PM UTC-7, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 10:58:25PM -0400, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:43 AM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > > > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, May 06, 2016 at 06:01:12PM +1000, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's Firefox 48, three versions after ESR 45, which is roughly halfway > > > > > before the next ESR. > > > > > > > > 48 is the first version that will *not* have 10.6-10.8 support. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Ralph Giles wrote: > > > > The blog post just says "August 2016". Firefox 48 is scheduled for > > > > release August 2. Can you confirm that means we can start removing > > > > 10.6-10.8 support in mozilla-central now, which will be Firefox 49? > > > > > > This post reads to me that we start dropping 10.6~10.8 since Firefox 49, > > > so > > > Firefox 48 should be the last one with that support. Am I missing > > > something > > > here? > > > > > > > The post states "Mozilla will end support for Firefox on OS X 10.6, 10.7, > > and 10.8 in August, 2016." This means that we will end support with the > > Firefox 48 release. i.e. Firefox 48 will not support OS X 10.6-10.8. > > That's why the post should have given a version number instead of an > ambiguous date. > > Mike I couldn't agree more. If you do not believe people can mix up and/or confuse what seems like an obvious statement or instructions, have a room full of college students read and explain it back to you. Any word on the ESR issue? ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support
On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 8:32:26 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > > > >> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > >> > >> > On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 05:18:17PM -0500, Adam Roach wrote: > >> > > On 5/3/16 4:59 PM, Justin Dolske wrote: > >> > > > On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > * The update server has been reconfigured to not serve Nightly > >> > > > > updates to > >> > > > > 10.6-10.8 (bug 1269811) > >> > > > > >> > > > Are we going to be showing some kind of notice to affected users > >> upon > >> > > > Release? That is, if I'm a 10.6 user and I update to Firefox 48, at > >> > some > >> > > > point should I see a message saying I'll no longer receive future > >> > > > updates? > >> > > > >> > > Even better, is there any way to get the update system to > >> automatically > >> > move > >> > > such users over to 45ESR? > >> > > >> > Did we introduce changes to profile data between 45 and 48? Because > >> > that usually breaks downgrade paths. > >> > > >> > >> We discussed this earlier and decided that we were not going to > >> automatically move users from Firefox to ESR. For one thing, the user has > >> not opted to be on this channel. A channel change also involves both > >> engineering and test work. It does seem prudent to test the scenario to > >> know whether users can move from 47 to ESR 45.2.0 without issue. > > > > > > Is it feasible to make 48 an ESR as well so that we don't need to ask > > users to downgrade it to ESR 45? > > > > I don't think so. I also don't know that we're going to recommend that > users migrate to ESR (need to verify that there are no incompatible profile > changes) although that is certainly an option. > > Lawrence (Note: Please see "OSX Support Cycle" below.) These are important decisions. However, expecting all end-users to be able to handle a manual migration to ESR, or understand what is happening or why seems like a bad idea. I believe downgrading should NOT be considered as an option, except for tech savvy users. There are three options that OSX 10.6-10.8 users have with Firefox: 1. Upgrade their OS (not possible for some) 2. Install ESR (temporary fix that could create problems if they can do #1 later) 3. Continue using the unsupported Firefox (and hope they are not hit by a security vulnerability) 4. Stop using Firefox >From my perspective, the best option for those who cannot upgrade their OS, is >to make the final 10.6-10.8 version be (or become) the next ESR. I have found, >repeatedly, that if there is a chance for users to >mis-read/mis-understand/confuse instructions, they will. Don't complicate >their lives any more than they already are. Give them a simple choice. "Click >here to upgrade to ESR". Make sure that adequate startup pages are created to communicate these changes in as concise a manner as possible. Provide links for further detail. Subsequent startups should load follow-up pages with reminders, perhaps reduced to a notice bar (like what Google Chrome did recently). SIDEBAR: "OSX Support Cycle" ... While we are on this subject, what is the plan for Firefox support of 10.9 later this year when Apple pushes out its latest OSX? How about a year from now when 10.10 support ends? Where does the annual Firefox/OSX support depreciation end? Apple has shifted to warp speed with their rapid release cycle. Every version of Windows has a minimum 10 year support lifecycle (security patches, etc.) OSX now has 3. If Mozilla and other developers simply follow Apple's "not supported" timeline, there will be a growing number of end users who will be left out. Where do you think they will go? If they migrate to Windows there is a much greater chance they will stick with Edge or whatever is there and leave Firefox behind. I have been a long-time Firefox advocate. I hope to continue this but am uncertain where the Firefox support path is going... ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: Intent to deprecate: MacOS 10.6-10.8 support
On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 8:32:26 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Mandel wrote: > On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Mandel > > wrote: > > > >> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > >> > >> > On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 05:18:17PM -0500, Adam Roach wrote: > >> > > On 5/3/16 4:59 PM, Justin Dolske wrote: > >> > > > On 5/3/16 12:21 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > * The update server has been reconfigured to not serve Nightly > >> > > > > updates to > >> > > > > 10.6-10.8 (bug 1269811) > >> > > > > >> > > > Are we going to be showing some kind of notice to affected users > >> upon > >> > > > Release? That is, if I'm a 10.6 user and I update to Firefox 48, at > >> > some > >> > > > point should I see a message saying I'll no longer receive future > >> > > > updates? > >> > > > >> > > Even better, is there any way to get the update system to > >> automatically > >> > move > >> > > such users over to 45ESR? > >> > > >> > Did we introduce changes to profile data between 45 and 48? Because > >> > that usually breaks downgrade paths. > >> > > >> > >> We discussed this earlier and decided that we were not going to > >> automatically move users from Firefox to ESR. For one thing, the user has > >> not opted to be on this channel. A channel change also involves both > >> engineering and test work. It does seem prudent to test the scenario to > >> know whether users can move from 47 to ESR 45.2.0 without issue. > > > > > > Is it feasible to make 48 an ESR as well so that we don't need to ask > > users to downgrade it to ESR 45? > > > > I don't think so. I also don't know that we're going to recommend that > users migrate to ESR (need to verify that there are no incompatible profile > changes) although that is certainly an option. > > Lawrence (Note: Please see "OSX Support Cycle" below.) These are important decisions. However, expecting all end-users to be able to handle a manual migration to ESR, or understand what is happening or why is somewhat flawed. I believe downgrading should NOT be considered as an option, except for tech savvy users. The best option, from my perspective (supporting a wide array of users, OS versions, hardware), is to make the final 10.6-10.8 version be (or become) the next ESR with a startup page providing them with the choice and action buttons/links. Subsequent startups would load follow-up startup pages with the appropriate reminders. The pages should explain very simply and succinctly that no new features will be coming and only security updates/patches will be made until "X" date when support ends (but the browser will still be usable). The first page should be VERY overt and obnoxious. The 2nd, 3rd, etc. can be more like what Google Chrome did recently (ie. notice bar at top of the content area). SIDEBAR: "OSX Support Cycle" While we are on this subject, what is the plan for Firefox support of 10.9 later this year when Apple pushes out its latest OSX? How about a year from now when 10.10 support ends? Where does the annual Firefox/OSX support depreciation end? Apple has shifted to warp speed with their rapid release cycle. Every version of Windows has a minimum 10 year support lifecycle (security patches, etc.) OSX now has 3. If Mozilla and other developers simply follow Apple's "not supported" timeline, there will be a growing number of end users who will be left out. Where do you think they will go? If they migrate to Windows there is a much greater chance they will stick with Edge or whatever is there and leave Firefox behind. ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
