Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Tue, 6 May 2014, Robert O'Callahan wrote: On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: Just so we're clear, I really don't care what the name is, nor do I have any objection to people having private conversations or whatnot. My point is just that there has not been a conversation in the WHATWG list about this which has resulted in the name being changed. So you're saying that discussions on any forum other than the WHATWG list are ignored for the purposes of you making changes to WHATWG specs? They're not ignored, but I am unlikely to hear about them, and if I don't hear about them, or if they aren't convincing, then they're not likely to result in changes to the spec. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Mon, 5 May 2014, Robert O'Callahan wrote: drawSystemFocusRing is a rather bad name since most calls to it will draw nothing. drawCustomFocusRing is an even worse name since it will draw nothing approximately always. drawFocusIfNeeded replaces drawSystemFocusRing, which is the method we expect people to need much more than drawCustomFocusRing. drawCustomFocusRing should change, but I'm not sure what to since its name needs to indicate both that it doesn't usually draw anything and its return value must be checked and properly used. I think it makes sense to use the short name for the method that is both simpler and the API most authors should be using. drawFocusIfNeeded() isn't a particularly good name either, since you're not drawing the focus, you're drawing the focus ring. I suppose if drawFocusIfNeeded() is the best we can come up with for drawSystemFocusRing(), then drawCustomFocusRing() could maybe become shouldDrawFocus(). In any case, the right place for these discussions would be a public standards list, like the WHATWG list, so that all the interested parties (in particular, authors) could have visibility into the discussion. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 8:13 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: drawFocusIfNeeded() isn't a particularly good name either, since you're not drawing the focus, you're drawing the focus ring. In the old email thread, Jatinder Mann objected to using the term ring since the focus drawn might not look like a ring. We could probably come up with a slightly better name, but only very slightly better, so at this point I would rather not reopen the discussion. If someone else wants to, that's up to them. In any case, the right place for these discussions would be a public standards list, like the WHATWG list, so that all the interested parties (in particular, authors) could have visibility into the discussion. I agree. Sorry. Rob -- Jtehsauts tshaei dS,o n Wohfy Mdaon yhoaus eanuttehrotraiitny eovni le atrhtohu gthot sf oirng iyvoeu rs ihnesa.rt sS?o Whhei csha iids teoa stiheer :p atroa lsyazye,d 'mYaonu,r sGients uapr,e tfaokreg iyvoeunr, 'm aotr atnod sgaoy ,h o'mGee.t uTph eann dt hwea lmka'n? gBoutt uIp waanndt wyeonut thoo mken.o w ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Tue, 6 May 2014, Robert O'Callahan wrote: We could probably come up with a slightly better name, but only very slightly better, so at this point I would rather not reopen the discussion. If someone else wants to, that's up to them. There hasn't been a discussion at all, so far. Please don't be too pedantic. There has been a discussion between vendors, it just wasn't public. For which I have already apologized. Right now the spec says it's drawSystemFocusRing() and drawCustomFocusRing(), because there hasn't been a request to change it. The WHATWG spec says that. The W3C spec was changed in January as a result of the aforementioned discussion. It's sad that we need to qualify which spec we're talking about, but we do. Rob -- Jtehsauts tshaei dS,o n Wohfy Mdaon yhoaus eanuttehrotraiitny eovni le atrhtohu gthot sf oirng iyvoeu rs ihnesa.rt sS?o Whhei csha iids teoa stiheer :p atroa lsyazye,d 'mYaonu,r sGients uapr,e tfaokreg iyvoeunr, 'm aotr atnod sgaoy ,h o'mGee.t uTph eann dt hwea lmka'n? gBoutt uIp waanndt wyeonut thoo mken.o w ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Tue, 6 May 2014, Robert O'Callahan wrote: We could probably come up with a slightly better name, but only very slightly better, so at this point I would rather not reopen the discussion. If someone else wants to, that's up to them. There hasn't been a discussion at all, so far. Please don't be too pedantic. There has been a discussion between vendors, it just wasn't public. FWIW the discussion was public. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014JanMar/0003.html For which I have already apologized. Right now the spec says it's drawSystemFocusRing() and drawCustomFocusRing(), because there hasn't been a request to change it. The WHATWG spec says that. The W3C spec was changed in January as a result of the aforementioned discussion. It's sad that we need to qualify which spec we're talking about, but we do. Dominic brought up that the name was confusing on WHATWG: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2013-September/252545.html I like the new name better because it describes what the API is doing. 'drawSystemFocusRing' doesn't always draw and 'drawCustomFocusRing' returns true if the author should draw (unless it draws itself!) ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW the discussion was public. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014JanMar/0003.html Haha, OK, apology withdrawn :-). Thanks, Rob -- Jtehsauts tshaei dS,o n Wohfy Mdaon yhoaus eanuttehrotraiitny eovni le atrhtohu gthot sf oirng iyvoeu rs ihnesa.rt sS?o Whhei csha iids teoa stiheer :p atroa lsyazye,d 'mYaonu,r sGients uapr,e tfaokreg iyvoeunr, 'm aotr atnod sgaoy ,h o'mGee.t uTph eann dt hwea lmka'n? gBoutt uIp waanndt wyeonut thoo mken.o w ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ehsan Akhgari ehsan.akhg...@gmail.comwrote: On 2014-05-01, 2:22 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Ehsan Akhgari ehsan.akhg...@gmail.com mailto:ehsan.akhg...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rik, How extensive is our testing of this feature? I'm very surprised that bug 1004499 was not caught by a test when you landed this. I wrote a number of mochi tests. In addition Dominc (from Google) wrote a more real world example [1] and I checked that the blink test files also work in Firefox. There are also a number of W3C tests that check that the implementation follows the spec. [2] Sounds good! If you think the existing mochitests don't give us enough coverage, we should try to add more tests. Can you give me an example where 1004499 would be triggered? I will update that bug with an extra test. We only draw the focus ring if something is focused by the keyboard. In order to simulate that in a mochitest, you can give your DOM element a @tabindex attribute, and then use syntehsizeKey to generate VK_TAB events to focus that DOM element. In order to test the opposite case, you can use synthesizeMouse to simulate setting the focus using the mouse. Is that always the case? I think so, for content at least. In our tests, we can also use elements that can get the focus by default (such as input and a) and we can focus them by calling 'focus()' on the element. Please check with Neil Deakin, he really knows this stuff the best. I just wanted to make sure we have good test coverage here. Thanks! -- Ehsan http://ehsanakhgari.org/ 1: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/accessible_canvas_clock.html 2: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/ 2dcontext/drawing-paths-to-the-canvas On 2014-04-30, 8:44 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote: Primary eng emails caban...@adobe.com mailto:caban...@adobe.com *Spec* http://www.w3.org/html/wg/__drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_ __CR/#dom-context-2d-__drawfocusifneeded http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_ CR/#dom-context-2d-drawfocusifneeded *Summary* The drawFocusIfNeeded API is a method on the canvas context that allows a user to draw a focus ring when a fallback element is focused. See http://www.w3c-test.org/__2dcontext/drawing-paths-to-__ the-canvas/drawFocusIfNeeded___001.html http://www.w3c-test.org/2dcontext/drawing-paths-to- the-canvas/drawFocusIfNeeded_001.html for an example. *Blink:* This is currently behind a runtime flag but engineers from Samsung is going to send an intent to ship to the blink mailing list. _ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org mailto:dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/__listinfo/dev-platform https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:44 AM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Pointer to the bug? Reason it's not in the WHATWG specification? -- http://annevankesteren.nl/ ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
Hi Rik, How extensive is our testing of this feature? I'm very surprised that bug 1004499 was not caught by a test when you landed this. Cheers, Ehsan On 2014-04-30, 8:44 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote: Primary eng emails caban...@adobe.com *Spec* http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/#dom-context-2d-drawfocusifneeded *Summary* The drawFocusIfNeeded API is a method on the canvas context that allows a user to draw a focus ring when a fallback element is focused. See http://www.w3c-test.org/2dcontext/drawing-paths-to-the-canvas/drawFocusIfNeeded_001.html for an example. *Blink:* This is currently behind a runtime flag but engineers from Samsung is going to send an intent to ship to the blink mailing list. ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
Another question: Trevor had some concerns over this API in bug 958241. Were those concerns sufficiently addressed? Thanks! Ehsan On 2014-04-30, 8:44 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote: Primary eng emails caban...@adobe.com *Spec* http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/#dom-context-2d-drawfocusifneeded *Summary* The drawFocusIfNeeded API is a method on the canvas context that allows a user to draw a focus ring when a fallback element is focused. See http://www.w3c-test.org/2dcontext/drawing-paths-to-the-canvas/drawFocusIfNeeded_001.html for an example. *Blink:* This is currently behind a runtime flag but engineers from Samsung is going to send an intent to ship to the blink mailing list. ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Thu, 1 May 2014, Rik Cabanier wrote: No particular reason. The spec text is identical; just the name of the method changed. Roc suggested the new name and people liked it better. I believe Ian stated that he would update the WHATWG version when there are 2 implementations. There's two methods in the HTML spec, drawSystemFocusRing(element) and drawCustomFocusRing(element). It's not clear to me that the name drawFocusIfNeeded() is an improvement on either. In particular, I can't tell which it's replacing, nor what the other would be called if we followed the same naming scheme. The WHATWG spec is going to follow browsers, but that doesn't mean that the new name is necessarily better. If it was, I would have updated the spec already instead of waiting for multiple UAs to do something else. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On 2014-05-01, 3:12 PM, Ian Hickson wrote: On Thu, 1 May 2014, Rik Cabanier wrote: No particular reason. The spec text is identical; just the name of the method changed. Roc suggested the new name and people liked it better. I believe Ian stated that he would update the WHATWG version when there are 2 implementations. There's two methods in the HTML spec, drawSystemFocusRing(element) and drawCustomFocusRing(element). It's not clear to me that the name drawFocusIfNeeded() is an improvement on either. In particular, I can't tell which it's replacing, nor what the other would be called if we followed the same naming scheme. The WHATWG spec is going to follow browsers, but that doesn't mean that the new name is necessarily better. If it was, I would have updated the spec already instead of waiting for multiple UAs to do something else. So, which other UAs have so far agreed on which names? I don't think we should ship the API unless there is a name for it that everyone agrees on. Cheers, Ehsan ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Re: intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ehsan Akhgari ehsan.akhg...@gmail.comwrote: On 2014-05-01, 2:22 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Ehsan Akhgari ehsan.akhg...@gmail.com mailto:ehsan.akhg...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rik, How extensive is our testing of this feature? I'm very surprised that bug 1004499 was not caught by a test when you landed this. I wrote a number of mochi tests. In addition Dominc (from Google) wrote a more real world example [1] and I checked that the blink test files also work in Firefox. There are also a number of W3C tests that check that the implementation follows the spec. [2] Sounds good! If you think the existing mochitests don't give us enough coverage, we should try to add more tests. Can you give me an example where 1004499 would be triggered? I will update that bug with an extra test. We only draw the focus ring if something is focused by the keyboard. In order to simulate that in a mochitest, you can give your DOM element a @tabindex attribute, and then use syntehsizeKey to generate VK_TAB events to focus that DOM element. In order to test the opposite case, you can use synthesizeMouse to simulate setting the focus using the mouse. Is that always the case? In our tests, we can also use elements that can get the focus by default (such as input and a) and we can focus them by calling 'focus()' on the element. 1: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/accessible_canvas_clock.html 2: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/ 2dcontext/drawing-paths-to-the-canvas On 2014-04-30, 8:44 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote: Primary eng emails caban...@adobe.com mailto:caban...@adobe.com *Spec* http://www.w3.org/html/wg/__drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_ __CR/#dom-context-2d-__drawfocusifneeded http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_ CR/#dom-context-2d-drawfocusifneeded *Summary* The drawFocusIfNeeded API is a method on the canvas context that allows a user to draw a focus ring when a fallback element is focused. See http://www.w3c-test.org/__2dcontext/drawing-paths-to-__ the-canvas/drawFocusIfNeeded___001.html http://www.w3c-test.org/2dcontext/drawing-paths-to- the-canvas/drawFocusIfNeeded_001.html for an example. *Blink:* This is currently behind a runtime flag but engineers from Samsung is going to send an intent to ship to the blink mailing list. _ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org mailto:dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/__listinfo/dev-platform https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
intent to ship: drawFocusIfNeeded
Primary eng emails caban...@adobe.com *Spec* http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/#dom-context-2d-drawfocusifneeded *Summary* The drawFocusIfNeeded API is a method on the canvas context that allows a user to draw a focus ring when a fallback element is focused. See http://www.w3c-test.org/2dcontext/drawing-paths-to-the-canvas/drawFocusIfNeeded_001.html for an example. *Blink:* This is currently behind a runtime flag but engineers from Samsung is going to send an intent to ship to the blink mailing list. ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
