Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On 12/21/2011 10:45 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > On 21.12.2011 18:52, Andrew Haley wrote: >> There really is very little difference between the com.sun.* classes >> in OpenJDK and the proprietary JDK, as far as I know. Of course, I >> haven't really checked, but... ;-) > > So, what is the root cause of (infrequent, but persistent) alarms about > incompatibility between OpenJDK and proprietary JDK? To know for certain I'd have to trawl all the bug reports, but they seem to boil down to web plugin incompatibilities and assuming a particular layout of the installation. With regard to the plugin, it's much more compatible now, but we still have occasional problems with proprietary applications that make incorrect assumptions. It's particularly difficult with banks that have applications we can't even try. Oh, and we do have bugs sometimes. ;-) Andrew. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:17:15 + Andrew Haley wrote: > On 12/21/2011 10:45 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > > On 21.12.2011 18:52, Andrew Haley wrote: > >> There really is very little difference between the com.sun.* > >> classes in OpenJDK and the proprietary JDK, as far as I know. Of > >> course, I haven't really checked, but... ;-) > > > > So, what is the root cause of (infrequent, but persistent) alarms > > about incompatibility between OpenJDK and proprietary JDK? > > To know for certain I'd have to trawl all the bug reports, but they > seem to boil down to web plugin incompatibilities and assuming a > particular layout of the installation. With regard to the plugin, > it's much more compatible now, but we still have occasional problems > with proprietary applications that make incorrect assumptions. It's > particularly difficult with banks that have applications we can't even > try. Oh, and we do have bugs sometimes. ;-) At $WORKPLACE I use a Java app (via javaws) - EMC NetWorker Management Console - that won't work with OpenJDK (it pops up a username/password window as expected but doesn't then pop up the main app window once the username+password have been entered), whilst it does work with Sun/Oracle java 6 and 7. I would much rather use OpenJDK but I haven't a clue how to track down what the problem is, knowing next to nothing about java. Paul. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
File Perl-Critic-1.117.tar.gz uploaded to lookaside cache by pghmcfc
A file has been added to the lookaside cache for perl-Perl-Critic: 85a274c3d08e1c3a5ed9034d5579c0a5 Perl-Critic-1.117.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On 22/12/11 10:41, Paul Howarth wrote: At $WORKPLACE I use a Java app (via javaws) - EMC NetWorker Management Console - that won't work with OpenJDK (it pops up a username/password window as expected but doesn't then pop up the main app window once the username+password have been entered), whilst it does work with Sun/Oracle java 6 and 7. I would much rather use OpenJDK but I haven't a clue how to track down what the problem is, knowing next to nothing about java. Paul. You would need to see what classes are imported. They are probably specific to Oracle JDK. Usually the top lines in a *.java src. In order to get the same functionality, someone would need to implement that in a "lets not get sued class" -- Regards, Frank Murphy UTF_8 Encoded Friend of fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:52:13AM +, Frank Murphy wrote: > On 22/12/11 10:41, Paul Howarth wrote: > > > >At $WORKPLACE I use a Java app (via javaws) - EMC NetWorker Management > >Console - that won't work with OpenJDK (it pops up a username/password > >window as expected but doesn't then pop up the main app window once the > >username+password have been entered), whilst it does work with > >Sun/Oracle java 6 and 7. I would much rather use OpenJDK but I haven't > >a clue how to track down what the problem is, knowing next to nothing > >about java. > > > >Paul. > > You would need to see what classes are imported. > They are probably specific to Oracle JDK. > Usually the top lines in a *.java src. Source is often not available. Is there a website or anything related to getting stuff working with OpenJDK? The software I use works fine with Oracle Java, but fails with http://fpaste.org/Ybkj/ on any OpenJDK. -- Tomasz TorczThere exists no separation between gods and men: xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl one blends softly casual into the other. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On 22/12/11 11:05, Tomasz Torcz wrote: Source is often not available. You *do* have the *.class files, But I wont explain further. -- Regards, Frank Murphy UTF_8 Encoded Friend of fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On 10:41 Thu 22 Dec , Paul Howarth wrote: > On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:17:15 + > Andrew Haley wrote: > > > On 12/21/2011 10:45 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > > > On 21.12.2011 18:52, Andrew Haley wrote: > > >> There really is very little difference between the com.sun.* > > >> classes in OpenJDK and the proprietary JDK, as far as I know. Of > > >> course, I haven't really checked, but... ;-) > > > > > > So, what is the root cause of (infrequent, but persistent) alarms > > > about incompatibility between OpenJDK and proprietary JDK? > > > > To know for certain I'd have to trawl all the bug reports, but they > > seem to boil down to web plugin incompatibilities and assuming a > > particular layout of the installation. With regard to the plugin, > > it's much more compatible now, but we still have occasional problems > > with proprietary applications that make incorrect assumptions. It's > > particularly difficult with banks that have applications we can't even > > try. Oh, and we do have bugs sometimes. ;-) > > At $WORKPLACE I use a Java app (via javaws) - EMC NetWorker Management > Console - that won't work with OpenJDK (it pops up a username/password > window as expected but doesn't then pop up the main app window once the > username+password have been entered), whilst it does work with > Sun/Oracle java 6 and 7. I would much rather use OpenJDK but I haven't > a clue how to track down what the problem is, knowing next to nothing > about java. > While OpenJDK is mostly the same codebase as the proprietary Oracle JDK (and, in fact, is the reference JDK for 7), the plugin and javaws are not part of OpenJDK. Sun never released the source code for these and they aren't part of the compatibility test suite (TCK). The packages in Fedora and other distros are thus an independent implementation developed primarily by developers at Red Hat in a project called IcedTea-Web: http://icedtea.classpath.org/wiki/IcedTea-Web Fixing incompatibilities between this and the proprietary implementation is a matter of finding issues and doing our best to fix them. In this, the help of users is of great importance and we'd appreciate bug reports at http://icedtea.classpath.org/bugzilla, with as many details as possible. As Andrew Haley implies, there are some issues where we can't reproduce the fault. Your case would appear to be one of them, as we would not have a username and password to enter into the app. This is also true of many banking sites. > Paul. > -- > devel mailing list > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- Andrew :) Free Java Software Engineer Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com) PGP Key: 248BDC07 (https://keys.indymedia.org/) Fingerprint = EC5A 1F5E C0AD 1D15 8F1F 8F91 3B96 A578 248B DC07 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
kmod for fedora?
I was reading about kmod on LWN. Sounds like it might be good for a future fedora, to optimize boot time http://www.politreco.com/2011/12/announce-kmod-1/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: kmod for fedora?
On Thu, 22.12.11 07:17, Neal Becker (ndbeck...@gmail.com) wrote: > I was reading about kmod on LWN. Sounds like it might be good for a future > fedora, to optimize boot time > > http://www.politreco.com/2011/12/announce-kmod-1/ https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/12/22/142 Lennart -- Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: kmod for fedora?
On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 13:31 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Thu, 22.12.11 07:17, Neal Becker (ndbeck...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > I was reading about kmod on LWN. Sounds like it might be good for a future > > fedora, to optimize boot time > > > > http://www.politreco.com/2011/12/announce-kmod-1/ > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/12/22/142 Thanks. Yea, it's a first cut. I'll be working with Martin Sivak to get this into good shape. There's a review bug pre-emptively filed on this and a reviewer lined up to start looking at it once we're ready. Jon. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On 12/21/2011 06:52 PM, Andrew Haley wrote: On 12/21/2011 05:09 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: On 20.12.2011 19:30, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote: Probably because OpenJDK and SunJDK aren't really that compatible. Well, hold on. Both the proprietary JDK and OpenJDK meet the specification, and we try very hard to be compatible with all the things that Java programmers assume. And we fix compatibility bugs if we can. I wasn't saying that this was the fault of people involved in OpenJDK. The problem is that the applications rely on behavior that is part of the platform but not mentioned in the specifications. You cannot expect different implementations to behave the same way when it comes to things that weren't specified in the first place. I am afraid that most of these problems are caused by stupid developers who are using (against all advices they were given) com.sun.* classes (which I am said is the most common source of problems). There is no protection against stupid programmers, I am afraid. There really is very little difference between the com.sun.* classes in OpenJDK and the proprietary JDK, as far as I know. Of course, I haven't really checked, but... ;-) The more important question is if Sun didn't want people to use the com.sun.* classes then why did they include them in the platform? In my opinion the root cause for these incompatibilities is that the platform simply isn't defined well. If you want to make good on the claim "write once run anywhere" then you actually have to make an effort to come up with a robust core. Injecting vendor specific stuff in there is pretty much doing the opposite of that. Regards, Dennis -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On 14:12 Thu 22 Dec , Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote: > On 12/21/2011 06:52 PM, Andrew Haley wrote: > > On 12/21/2011 05:09 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > >> On 20.12.2011 19:30, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote: > >>> Probably because OpenJDK and SunJDK aren't really that compatible. > > > > Well, hold on. Both the proprietary JDK and OpenJDK meet the > > specification, and we try very hard to be compatible with all > > the things that Java programmers assume. And we fix compatibility > > bugs if we can. > > I wasn't saying that this was the fault of people involved in OpenJDK. The > problem is that the applications rely on behavior that is part of the > platform but not mentioned in the specifications. You cannot expect > different implementations to behave the same way when it comes to things > that weren't specified in the first place. Yes, we know this from experience working on gcj/GNU Classpath. But OpenJDK and the proprietary Oracle JDK are (according to Sun/Oracle) ~96% the same code. > > >> I am afraid that most of these problems are caused by stupid developers > >> who are using (against all advices they were given) com.sun.* classes > >> (which I am said is the most common source of problems). There is no > >> protection against stupid programmers, I am afraid. > > > > There really is very little difference between the com.sun.* classes > > in OpenJDK and the proprietary JDK, as far as I know. Of course, I > > haven't really checked, but... ;-) > > The more important question is if Sun didn't want people to use the > com.sun.* classes then why did they include them in the platform? > Assuming you mean 'platform' as in http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/ they didn't. There *has* to be some classes that aren't part of the API to actually make things work (e.g. providing implementation of services provided by the API). You'll find just the same thing in the gnu.* namespace for GNU Classpath & gcj. > In my opinion the root cause for these incompatibilities is that the > platform simply isn't defined well. If you want to make good on the claim > "write once run anywhere" then you actually have to make an effort to come > up with a robust core. Injecting vendor specific stuff in there is pretty > much doing the opposite of that. > Seems pretty well defined to me. > Regards, >Dennis > -- > devel mailing list > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- Andrew :) Free Java Software Engineer Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com) PGP Key: 248BDC07 (https://keys.indymedia.org/) Fingerprint = EC5A 1F5E C0AD 1D15 8F1F 8F91 3B96 A578 248B DC07 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
* Paul Howarth [2011-12-22 05:41]: > On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:17:15 + > Andrew Haley wrote: > > > On 12/21/2011 10:45 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > > > On 21.12.2011 18:52, Andrew Haley wrote: > > >> There really is very little difference between the com.sun.* > > >> classes in OpenJDK and the proprietary JDK, as far as I know. Of > > >> course, I haven't really checked, but... ;-) > > > > > > So, what is the root cause of (infrequent, but persistent) alarms > > > about incompatibility between OpenJDK and proprietary JDK? > > > > To know for certain I'd have to trawl all the bug reports, but they > > seem to boil down to web plugin incompatibilities and assuming a > > particular layout of the installation. With regard to the plugin, > > it's much more compatible now, but we still have occasional problems > > with proprietary applications that make incorrect assumptions. It's > > particularly difficult with banks that have applications we can't even > > try. Oh, and we do have bugs sometimes. ;-) > > At $WORKPLACE I use a Java app (via javaws) - EMC NetWorker Management > Console - that won't work with OpenJDK (it pops up a username/password > window as expected but doesn't then pop up the main app window once the > username+password have been entered), whilst it does work with > Sun/Oracle java 6 and 7. I would much rather use OpenJDK but I haven't > a clue how to track down what the problem is, knowing next to nothing > about java. > Hi Paul, Is there a bug open for this? Deepak > Paul. > -- > devel mailing list > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On 12/22/2011 10:41 AM, Paul Howarth wrote: > At $WORKPLACE I use a Java app (via javaws) - EMC NetWorker Management > Console - that won't work with OpenJDK (it pops up a username/password > window as expected but doesn't then pop up the main app window once the > username+password have been entered), whilst it does work with > Sun/Oracle java 6 and 7. I would much rather use OpenJDK but I haven't > a clue how to track down what the problem is, knowing next to nothing > about java. We will try to fix this if we can get enough information. FWIW -- and you may be surprised by this -- javaws and the browser plugin aren't part of Java Platform, Standard Edition (Java SE) or of OpenJDK but are a different project (IcedTea-Web) altogether. We have had very few compatibility issues with Java SE itself. Andrew. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Announcing - A new way to make live media with livemedia-creator
livemedia-creator is a new addition to the lorax project. Its goal is to create live images using anaconda so that we have one place to maintain the logic defining what an installed system should look like. lorax-17.1 contains the first release which should be working well enough for people to experiment with. See the README.livemedia-creator for details and examples. The current version can be used to create bootable disk images or to convert those images into a bootable .iso Development disussion will be on the anaconda-devel-list, and bugs can be filed against lorax. I'll either take them or you can assign them to b...@redhat.com -- Brian C. Lane | Anaconda Team | IRC: bcl #anaconda | Port Orchard, WA (PST8PDT) pgpH6VmjqJgGN.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Announcing - A new way to make live media with livemedia-creator
Where's the project webpage for lorax? Google doesn't seem to find it. Thanks in advance. On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Brian C. Lane wrote: > > livemedia-creator is a new addition to the lorax project. Its goal is to > create live images using anaconda so that we have one place to maintain > the logic defining what an installed system should look like. > > lorax-17.1 contains the first release which should be working well > enough for people to experiment with. See the README.livemedia-creator > for details and examples. The current version can be used to create > bootable disk images or to convert those images into a bootable .iso > > Development disussion will be on the anaconda-devel-list, and bugs can > be filed against lorax. I'll either take them or you can assign them to > b...@redhat.com > > -- > Brian C. Lane | Anaconda Team | IRC: bcl #anaconda | Port Orchard, WA > (PST8PDT) > > -- > devel mailing list > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- Kurt Seifried k...@seifried.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Announcing - A new way to make live media with livemedia-creator
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 08:51:14 -0700, Kurt Seifried wrote: > Where's the project webpage for lorax? Google doesn't seem to find it. > Thanks in advance. rpm -qi lorax says its: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=lorax.git -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Canonical Will Remove Java From Ubuntu
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 06:09:57PM +0100, Matej Cepl wrote: > On 20.12.2011 19:30, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote: > >Probably because OpenJDK and SunJDK aren't really that compatible. > > I am afraid that most of these problems are caused by stupid > developers who are using (against all advices they were given) > com.sun.* classes (which I am said is the most common source of > problems). There is no protection against stupid programmers, I am > afraid. It has *ALWAYS* been the case that you weren't supposed to use anything outside of java[x].* in application code, that it was implementation detail up in thar and subject to change without notice. -- Darryl L. Pierce, Sr. Software Engineer @ Red Hat, Inc. Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/ pgpHkOaYl8Roj.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Announcing - A new way to make live media with livemedia-creator
Hi, anaconda-devel-l...@redhat.com, Discussion list about Kickstart and Discussion of Fedora build system are 3 Mailing List about same thing :), you choose anaconda-devel-l...@redhat.com, but if you post on build...@lists.fedoraproject.org , I would appreciate . any you have a new post there (build...@lists.fedoraproject.org ) with Subject:Fails for build ISO by pungi+lorax on Fedora16 I am also curious about this lorax . Thanks, On Wed, 2011-12-21 at 11:35 -0800, Brian C. Lane wrote: > livemedia-creator is a new addition to the lorax project. Its goal is to > create live images using anaconda so that we have one place to maintain > the logic defining what an installed system should look like. > > lorax-17.1 contains the first release which should be working well > enough for people to experiment with. See the README.livemedia-creator > for details and examples. The current version can be used to create > bootable disk images or to convert those images into a bootable .iso > > Development disussion will be on the anaconda-devel-list, and bugs can > be filed against lorax. I'll either take them or you can assign them to > b...@redhat.com > -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Java Substance Package?!
Hello everybody, I'm currently working on an RPM of TV-Browser, a digital TV guide. It is based on java and needs the substance gui framework. I couldn't find it inside the repositories, so is anyone able to package it? Greetings Sven-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Announcing - A new way to make live media with livemedia-creator
On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 09:58 -0600, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 08:51:14 -0700, > Kurt Seifried wrote: > > Where's the project webpage for lorax? Google doesn't seem to find it. > > Thanks in advance. > > rpm -qi lorax says its: > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=lorax.git https://fedorahosted.org/lorax/wiki sounds better -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
gsmartcontrol, gparted problems with userhelper and X credentials?
Recently my package for gsmartcontrol was approved, and it is now in Fedora 16. I was using Fedora 14 on my desktop system when I did the packaging work. I did test it on a Fedora 16 system before submission. Since then I've done a fresh install of Fedora 16 on my desktop. Now if I try to launch gsmartcontrol from the Gnome Shell, I get the prompt from userhelper for my password, but it fails to run. From the command line, the same thing happens, but at least it shows the error message "Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0". Doesn't userhelper pass the X credentials? I'm sure this was working for me on Fedora 14, and I don't remember configuring anything special. I thought I'd see how gparted deals with the same issue, and find that on my system gparted gives exactly the same behavior. Is there something else I need to put into the gsmartcontrol spec to make this work properly in F16? Thanks! Eric -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
