Fedora rawhide compose report: 20230722.n.1 changes

2023-07-22 Thread Fedora Rawhide Report
OLD: Fedora-Rawhide-20230721.n.0
NEW: Fedora-Rawhide-20230722.n.1

= SUMMARY =
Added images:0
Dropped images:  2
Added packages:  4
Dropped packages:2
Upgraded packages:   174
Downgraded packages: 0

Size of added packages:  120.49 KiB
Size of dropped packages:25.32 MiB
Size of upgraded packages:   13.34 GiB
Size of downgraded packages: 0 B

Size change of upgraded packages:   -67.96 MiB
Size change of downgraded packages: 0 B

= ADDED IMAGES =

= DROPPED IMAGES =
Image: i3 live aarch64
Path: Spins/aarch64/iso/Fedora-i3-Live-aarch64-Rawhide-20230721.n.0.iso
Image: Workstation live aarch64
Path: 
Workstation/aarch64/iso/Fedora-Workstation-Live-aarch64-Rawhide-20230721.n.0.iso

= ADDED PACKAGES =
Package: frozen-1.1.1-3.fc39
Summary: A header-only, constexpr alternative to gperf for C++14 users
RPMs:frozen-devel
Size:52.68 KiB

Package: rust-human_format-1.0.3-1.fc39
Summary: Converts a number to/from a human readable string
RPMs:rust-human_format+default-devel rust-human_format-devel
Size:21.04 KiB

Package: rust-md5-asm-0.5.0-1.fc39
Summary: Assembly implementation of MD5 compression function
RPMs:rust-md5-asm+default-devel rust-md5-asm-devel
Size:19.96 KiB

Package: rust-sha2-asm-0.6.2-1.fc39
Summary: Assembly implementation of SHA-2 compression functions
RPMs:rust-sha2-asm+default-devel rust-sha2-asm-devel
Size:26.81 KiB


= DROPPED PACKAGES =
Package: libgweather-40.0-5.fc38
Summary: A library for weather information
RPMs:libgweather libgweather-devel
Size:15.23 MiB

Package: python-django3-3.2.19-1.fc39
Summary: A high-level Python Web framework
RPMs:python-django3-bash-completion python3-django3 python3-django3-doc
Size:10.09 MiB


= UPGRADED PACKAGES =
Package:  MUSIC-1.1.16-13.20201002git8c6b77a.fc39
Old package:  MUSIC-1.1.16-11.20201002git8c6b77a.fc39
Summary:  The MUltiSimulation Coordinator
RPMs: MUSIC-common MUSIC-mpich MUSIC-mpich-devel MUSIC-openmpi 
MUSIC-openmpi-devel python3-MUSIC-mpich python3-MUSIC-openmpi
Size: 7.51 MiB
Size change:  2.79 KiB
Changelog:
  * Wed Jul 19 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.1.16-12.20201002git8c6b77a
  - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

  * Thu Jul 20 2023 Benjamin A. Beasley  - 
1.1.16-13.20201002git8c6b77a
  - Use the Cython compat package for now


Package:  PackageKit-Qt-1.1.1-1.fc39
Old package:  PackageKit-Qt-1.0.2-6.fc38
Summary:  Qt support library for PackageKit
RPMs: PackageKit-Qt5 PackageKit-Qt5-devel
Size: 652.79 KiB
Size change:  40.93 KiB
Changelog:
  * Wed Jul 19 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.0.2-7
  - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

  * Sat Jul 22 2023 Alessandro Astone  - 1.1.1-1
  - Update to 1.1.1


Package:  abootimg-0.6-29.20230721git7e127fe.fc39
Old package:  abootimg-0.6-26.20110830gitff8e759.fc38
Summary:  Tool for manipulating Android boot images
RPMs: abootimg
Size: 116.50 KiB
Size change:  1.31 KiB
Changelog:
  * Wed Jan 18 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
0.6-27
  - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Mass_Rebuild

  * Wed Jul 19 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
0.6-28
  - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

  * Fri Jul 21 2023 Yanko Kaneti  - 
0.6-29.20230721git7e127fe
  - New upstream location. SPDX migration. Modernize. Drop upstreamed patch.


Package:  arbor-0.7-9.fc39
Old package:  arbor-0.7-4.fc38
Summary:  Multi-compartment neural network simulation library
RPMs: arbor arbor-devel arbor-doc arbor-mpich arbor-mpich-devel 
arbor-openmpi arbor-openmpi-devel
Size: 207.28 MiB
Size change:  -67.43 MiB
Changelog:
  * Wed Jun 28 2023 Vitaly Zaitsev  - 0.7-5
  - Rebuilt due to fmt 10 update.

  * Wed Jun 28 2023 Python Maint  - 0.7-6
  - Rebuilt for Python 3.12

  * Wed Jul 19 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
0.7-7
  - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

  * Thu Jul 20 2023 Sandro  - 0.7-8
  - Fix use of distutils (RHBZ#2219935)

  * Fri Jul 21 2023 Sandro  - 0.7-9
  - Fix ExcludeArch
  - s/s390/s390x/


Package:  azote-1.12.3-1.fc39
Old package:  azote-1.11.0-2.fc39
Summary:  Wallpaper and color manager for Sway, i3 and some other WMs
RPMs: azote
Size: 7.65 MiB
Size change:  2.71 KiB
Changelog:
  * Wed Jul 19 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.11.0-3
  - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

  * Fri Jul 21 2023 Bob Hepple  - 1.12.3-1
  - new version
  - migrated to SPDX license


Package:  byteman-4.0.16-10.fc39
Old package:  byteman-4.0.16-8.fc38
Summary:  Java agent-based bytecode injection tool
RPMs: byteman byteman-bmunit byteman-dtest byteman-javadoc 
byteman-rulecheck-maven-plugin
Size: 1.59 MiB
Size change:  -194.25 KiB
Changelog:
  * Wed Jul 19 2023 Fedora

[EPEL-devel] Fedora EPEL 9 updates-testing report

2023-07-22 Thread updates
The following Fedora EPEL 9 Security updates need testing:
 Age  URL
   5  https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2023-eaff7ffae1   
kitty-0.26.5-6.el9


The following builds have been pushed to Fedora EPEL 9 updates-testing

netdata-1.41.0-1.el9
partclone-0.3.24-1.el9
python-openslide-1.3.0-2.el9

Details about builds:



 netdata-1.41.0-1.el9 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-a2685c4126)
 Real-time performance monitoring

Update Information:

Update from upstream

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Didier Fabert  1.41.0-1
- Update from upstream
* Thu Jul 20 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.40.1-2
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

References:

  [ 1 ] Bug #2224157 - netdata-1.41.0 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2224157




 partclone-0.3.24-1.el9 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-d2c177fc26)
 Utility to clone and restore a partition

Update Information:

# partclone v0.3.24  - IO stream support for torrent info file - Handle absence
of `mtrace.h` (e.g. uClibc) gracefully - Link with `-lm` for
`isnormal()`/`__fpclassifyf()` as needed - Add Russian language file - Add
missing space before opening parenthesis - Add German language

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Robert Scheck  0.3.24-1
- Upgrade to 0.3.24 (#2224618)
* Thu Jul 20 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
0.3.23-2
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

References:

  [ 1 ] Bug #2224618 - partclone-0.3.24 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2224618




 python-openslide-1.3.0-2.el9 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-67d27307dd)
 Python bindings for the OpenSlide library

Update Information:

OpenSlide Python 1.3.0 exposes color management profiles where available and
adds support for the upcoming OpenSlide 4.0.0.

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Benjamin Gilbert  - 1.3.0-2
- Fix tests on EPEL 9
* Sat Jul 22 2023 Benjamin Gilbert  - 1.3.0-1
- New release
* Fri Jul 21 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.2.0-7
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild
* Tue Jul 11 2023 Benjamin Gilbert  - 1.2.0-6
- Avoid invoking setup.py subcommands directly
* Fri Jun 16 2023 Python Maint  - 1.2.0-5
- Rebuilt for Python 3.12
* Fri Jan 20 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.2.0-4
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Mass_Rebuild


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[EPEL-devel] Fedora EPEL 8 updates-testing report

2023-07-22 Thread updates
The following Fedora EPEL 8 Security updates need testing:
 Age  URL
   6  https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2023-226639904e   
netcdf-4.7.0-3.el8


The following builds have been pushed to Fedora EPEL 8 updates-testing

netdata-1.41.0-1.el8
partclone-0.3.24-1.el8
tsung-1.8.0-1.el8

Details about builds:



 netdata-1.41.0-1.el8 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-00af2c5783)
 Real-time performance monitoring

Update Information:

Update from upstream

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Didier Fabert  1.41.0-1
- Update from upstream
* Thu Jul 20 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.40.1-2
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

References:

  [ 1 ] Bug #2224157 - netdata-1.41.0 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2224157




 partclone-0.3.24-1.el8 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-6f8fa58c2a)
 Utility to clone and restore a partition

Update Information:

# partclone v0.3.24  - IO stream support for torrent info file - Handle absence
of `mtrace.h` (e.g. uClibc) gracefully - Link with `-lm` for
`isnormal()`/`__fpclassifyf()` as needed - Add Russian language file - Add
missing space before opening parenthesis - Add German language

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Robert Scheck  0.3.24-1
- Upgrade to 0.3.24 (#2224618)
* Thu Jul 20 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
0.3.23-2
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

References:

  [ 1 ] Bug #2224618 - partclone-0.3.24 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2224618




 tsung-1.8.0-1.el8 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-9578f4aff7)
 A distributed multi-protocol load testing tool

Update Information:

Update from upstream

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Didier Fabert  - 1.8.0-1
- Update to 1.8.0 (#2174608)
* Sat Jan 21 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-21
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Mass_Rebuild
* Sat Jul 23 2022 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-20
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_37_Mass_Rebuild
* Wed Jun  1 2022 Jitka Plesnikova  - 1.7.0-19
- Perl 5.36 rebuild
* Sat Jan 22 2022 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-18
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_36_Mass_Rebuild
* Fri Jul 23 2021 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-17
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_35_Mass_Rebuild
* Sat May 22 2021 Jitka Plesnikova  - 1.7.0-16
- Perl 5.34 rebuild
* Wed Jan 27 2021 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-15
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_34_Mass_Rebuild
* Wed Jul 29 2020 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-14
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_33_Mass_Rebuild
* Thu Jun 25 2020 Jitka Plesnikova  - 1.7.0-13
- Perl 5.32 rebuild
* Fri Jan 31 2020 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-12
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_32_Mass_Rebuild
* Sat Jul 27 2019 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-11
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_31_Mass_Rebuild
* Thu Jun  6 2019 Didier Fabert  - 1.7.0-10
- Conditionnal patch (not for el7)
* Mon Jun  3 2019 Jitka Plesnikova  - 1.7.0-9
- Perl 5.30 re-rebuild updated packages
* Sun Jun  2 2019 Didier Fabert  - 1.7.0-8
- Patch to support python3 (submit to upstream)
- Create doc subpackage
* Thu May 30 2019 Jitka Plesnikova  - 1.7.0-7
- Perl 5.30 rebuild
* Sun Feb  3 2019 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-6
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_30_Mass_Rebuild
* Sat Jul 14 2018 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-5
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_29_Mass_Rebuild
* Fri Jun 29 2018 Jitka Plesnikova  - 1.7.0-4
- Perl 5.28 rebuild
* Fri Feb  9 2018 Iryna Shcherbina  - 1.7.0-3
- Update Python 2 dependency declarations to new packaging standards
  (See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FinalizingFedoraSwitchtoPython3)
* Fri Feb  9 2018 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-2
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_28_Mass_Rebuild
* Fri Sep  

[EPEL-devel] Fedora EPEL 7 updates-testing report

2023-07-22 Thread updates
The following Fedora EPEL 7 Security updates need testing:
 Age  URL
   6  https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2023-62c97d6572   
zabbix50-5.0.36-1.el7


The following builds have been pushed to Fedora EPEL 7 updates-testing

netdata-1.41.0-1.el7
partclone-0.3.24-1.el7
tsung-1.8.0-1.el7
xxhash-0.8.2-1.el7

Details about builds:



 netdata-1.41.0-1.el7 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-60f026ee37)
 Real-time performance monitoring

Update Information:

Update from upstream

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Didier Fabert  1.41.0-1
- Update from upstream
* Thu Jul 20 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.40.1-2
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

References:

  [ 1 ] Bug #2224157 - netdata-1.41.0 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2224157




 partclone-0.3.24-1.el7 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-f5fa1d2bba)
 Utility to clone and restore a partition

Update Information:

# partclone v0.3.24  - IO stream support for torrent info file - Handle absence
of `mtrace.h` (e.g. uClibc) gracefully - Link with `-lm` for
`isnormal()`/`__fpclassifyf()` as needed - Add Russian language file - Add
missing space before opening parenthesis - Add German language

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Robert Scheck  0.3.24-1
- Upgrade to 0.3.24 (#2224618)
* Thu Jul 20 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
0.3.23-2
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

References:

  [ 1 ] Bug #2224618 - partclone-0.3.24 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2224618




 tsung-1.8.0-1.el7 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-19f73a17ad)
 A distributed multi-protocol load testing tool

Update Information:

Update from upstream

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Didier Fabert  - 1.8.0-1
- Update to 1.8.0 (#2174608)
* Sat Jan 21 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-21
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Mass_Rebuild
* Sat Jul 23 2022 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-20
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_37_Mass_Rebuild
* Wed Jun  1 2022 Jitka Plesnikova  - 1.7.0-19
- Perl 5.36 rebuild
* Sat Jan 22 2022 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-18
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_36_Mass_Rebuild
* Fri Jul 23 2021 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-17
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_35_Mass_Rebuild
* Sat May 22 2021 Jitka Plesnikova  - 1.7.0-16
- Perl 5.34 rebuild
* Wed Jan 27 2021 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-15
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_34_Mass_Rebuild
* Wed Jul 29 2020 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-14
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_33_Mass_Rebuild
* Thu Jun 25 2020 Jitka Plesnikova  - 1.7.0-13
- Perl 5.32 rebuild
* Fri Jan 31 2020 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-12
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_32_Mass_Rebuild
* Sat Jul 27 2019 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
1.7.0-11
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_31_Mass_Rebuild

References:

  [ 1 ] Bug #2174608 - tsung-1.8.0 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2174608




 xxhash-0.8.2-1.el7 (FEDORA-EPEL-2023-6a9bf6b5e2)
 Extremely fast hash algorithm

Update Information:

xxhash 0.8.2

ChangeLog:

* Sat Jul 22 2023 Mattias Ellert  - 0.8.2-1
- Update to version 0.8.2
- Drop patch xxhash-epel7-ppc64le.patch
- Use SPDX license identifiers
* Sat Jul 22 2023 Fedora Release Engineering  - 
0.8.1-6
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild
* Mon Jun 19 2023 Florian Weimer  - 

[Test-Announce] Fedora 39 Rawhide 20230722.n.1 nightly compose nominated for testing

2023-07-22 Thread rawhide
Announcing the creation of a new nightly release validation test event
for Fedora 39 Rawhide 20230722.n.1. Please help run some tests for this
nightly compose if you have time. For more information on nightly
release validation testing, see:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Release_validation_test_plan

Notable package version changes:
pungi - 20230719.n.0: pungi-4.4.0-2.fc39.src, 20230722.n.1: 
pungi-4.4.0-3.fc39.src

Test coverage information for the current release can be seen at:
https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/testcase_stats/39

You can see all results, find testing instructions and image download
locations, and enter results on the Summary page:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_39_Rawhide_20230722.n.1_Summary

The individual test result pages are:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_39_Rawhide_20230722.n.1_Installation
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_39_Rawhide_20230722.n.1_Base
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_39_Rawhide_20230722.n.1_Server
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_39_Rawhide_20230722.n.1_Cloud
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_39_Rawhide_20230722.n.1_Desktop
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_39_Rawhide_20230722.n.1_Security_Lab

Thank you for testing!
-- 
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Re: Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 10:32:01AM +0200, drago01 wrote:

> Which file systems are considered uncommon in that context? And aren't most
> attacks based on file systems used by windows, which makes them "common" ?
> (Extfat, NTFS, VFAT)

Any attack here is going to be OS-specific - a vulnerability in a 
filesystem used by Windows is massively unlikely to be present in Linux. 
If your goal is to compromise a Linux device then the attack surface 
available to you (right now) is everything that's present in Linux. For 
removable devices I'd argue that anything other than exfat and vfat are 
probably uncommon, but could be convinced that ext4 and xfs made sense 
as well (and maybe ntfs since I assume some people do want to transfer 
data on USB hard drives)
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Re: F39 Change Proposal: Enable fwupd-refresh.timer by default on IoT, CoreOS & Server Editions (Self-Contained)

2023-07-22 Thread Neal Gompa
On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 3:32 PM Dan Čermák
 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Aoife Moloney  writes:
>
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/EnableFwupdRefreshByDefault
> >
> *snip*
> >
> > == Detailed Description ==
> >
> > Firmware for hardware devices can have bugs and firmware updates
> > generally help address those. Firmware updates might however need
> > manual interaction, a reboot or device unplug/re-plug so we can not
> > enable firmware update by default.
> >
> > This change thus only enable notifying about new firmware updates, not
> > installing them.
> >
> > With this change, Fedora installations will contact the Linux Vendor
> > Firmware Service CDN (LVFS, https://cdn.fwupd.org/) to get the updated
> > metadata but will not send any information about the hardware without
> > user interaction.
> >
> > See the LVFS privacy policy at
> > https://lvfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/privacy.html.
> >
>
> I like this, it's a very unobtrusive change and will point some admins
> to apply firmware updates. Thanks for this idea!
>

Actually, why wouldn't this be used everywhere? I could see this be
useful when people remote into workstations and apply updates. I know
of plenty of people that split their desktops between local and remote
access/administration.



-- 
真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth!
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Re: Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread Demi Marie Obenour
On 7/22/23 08:57, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> I've been thinking about this for a while. The status quo is really 
> awful.
> 
> On Sat, Jul 22 2023 at 11:31:22 AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek 
>  wrote:
>> A bigger problem I see, is that if a user plugins in a usb stick,
>> expecting to make use of it, and it's not automounted without any
>> explanation, they are most likely to just click for it to be mounted,
>> or to even issue an explicit 'mount', defeating the whole protection.
> 
> Yup, there's the problem. The user will almost always mount it 
> manually, so disabling automount seems pointless.
> 
>> A more reasonable UI would be to display a pop-up that says "Device
>> ASDF uses file system AmigaFS 1982 which is not well supported. See
>> https://some.link/ for details. Do you want to a) mount once, b) not
>> mount, c) mount this fs type always?". This would require some work
>> in DE.
> 
> The UI would have to not mention technical details like the name of the 
> filesystem. Also, warning a user that the filesystem is not 
> "well-supported" is also not likely to accomplish much. The user 
> plugged in the USB stick in order to look at files, and will almost 
> always choose to do so if presented with the option. Even if we warn 
> that the device may be malicious (which we don't actually know), users 
> will still just think about it and decide "probably not, I want to see 
> my files."
> 
> The desktop security model assumes the kernel is robust to malformed 
> filesystems and removing that assumption is just not workable. This 
> development mindset might be prevalent among kernel developers, but 
> it's not acceptable for desktop users.  Filesystems that are not 
> designed to be robust to untrusted input should be disabled outright 
> and not supported at all. I'm not sure how practical this actually is, 
> though, because I think it would probably entail disabling common 
> filesystems (ext4? xfs? btrfs?) in addition to uncommon filesystems. 
> Starting with disabling uncommon filesystems is better than nothing, 
> though.
> 
> Michael

A much better solution is:

1. Do not mount automatically.  The user might have intended to operate
   on the drive at the block level, such as to create or validate boot
   media.  Instead, defer mounting until the user looks at the contents
   of the filesystem.

2. Perform the mount in a **sandboxed** userspace process or even a
   virtual machine.  This is what Chromium OS does and is the only
   solution that is decently secure.

There are all sorts of other problems that need to be addressed as well,
such as ensuring that only fuzzed and hardened USB drivers are used.
But the mounting restrictions are the first step.
-- 
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
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Re: Java-devel list?

2023-07-22 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 01:59:47AM +0200, Peter Boy wrote:
> Is there something wrong with the Java-Devel list? 
> 
> I can send a message to the list and get no reject or error, but is never 
> shows up, at least it looks like that.
> 
> Or did I miss something? 

If you are subscribed it should go through. 

Can you file a infra ticket and include the messageid of the message(s)
you sent? we can then look at logs and see where it went...

kevin


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Re: F39 Change Proposal: LibreOffice 7.6 (Self-Contained)

2023-07-22 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 04:31:01PM +0100, Aoife Moloney wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibreOffice_7.6
> 
> This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
> process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
> community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
> by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
> 
> == Summary ==
> Update LibreOffice suite to 7.6
> 
> 
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:mattia| Mattia Verga]]
> * Name: [[User:limb| Gwyn Ciesla ]]
> * libreoffice-SIG
> * Email: mattia.ve...@protonmail.com, gw...@protonmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> LibreOffice 7.6 is currently in Beta and the first stable release is
> currently scheduled during F39 development. We aim to bring the latest
> LibreOffice stable release in F39.

When is the stable release scheduled for? ie, how does it align with
fedora release milestones ? Perhaps add that here?

> At the same time we plan to stop building LibreOffice for i686 architecture.

Good plan.

kevin


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Re: Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 10:12:33AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:

> Several years ago, SUSE distributions moved to disabling the modules
> by default for a number of filesystems, but making it pretty easy to
> turn them back on:
> https://github.com/openSUSE/suse-module-tools/pull/5

The problem there is that if you install a module you need for a static 
mount, you open yourself up to attack via automounts.
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Re: F39 Change Proposal: Enable fwupd-refresh.timer by default on IoT, CoreOS & Server Editions (Self-Contained)

2023-07-22 Thread Dan Čermák
Hi,

Aoife Moloney  writes:

> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/EnableFwupdRefreshByDefault
>
*snip*
>
> == Detailed Description ==
>
> Firmware for hardware devices can have bugs and firmware updates
> generally help address those. Firmware updates might however need
> manual interaction, a reboot or device unplug/re-plug so we can not
> enable firmware update by default.
>
> This change thus only enable notifying about new firmware updates, not
> installing them.
>
> With this change, Fedora installations will contact the Linux Vendor
> Firmware Service CDN (LVFS, https://cdn.fwupd.org/) to get the updated
> metadata but will not send any information about the hardware without
> user interaction.
>
> See the LVFS privacy policy at
> https://lvfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/privacy.html.
>

I like this, it's a very unobtrusive change and will point some admins
to apply firmware updates. Thanks for this idea!


Cheers,

Dan
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Re: Fedora 39 Mass Rebuild started

2023-07-22 Thread Ankur Sinha
On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 09:35:26 -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 11:04:19AM +0100, Ankur Sinha wrote:
> 
> > The wiki page also looks out of date (still refers f38):
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild
> > 
> > I had the usual question---should I be making new builds for updates and
> > fixes into the mass rebuild side tag, or is rawhide OK?
> 
> Rawhide as normal is fine. 
> 
> When the tag is merged it will look and see if there is a newer build in
> rawhide already. If so, it won't take the mass rebuild one in. 

Cool! Thanks very much.

-- 
Thanks,
Regards,
Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
Time zone: Europe/London


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Re: Fedora 39 Mass Rebuild started

2023-07-22 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 11:04:19AM +0100, Ankur Sinha wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 13:31:57 +0200, Tomas Hrcka wrote:
> > Oh, that thing again.
> > Let me update the template so sed works correctly.
> > 
> 
> The wiki page also looks out of date (still refers f38):
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild
> 
> I had the usual question---should I be making new builds for updates and
> fixes into the mass rebuild side tag, or is rawhide OK?

Rawhide as normal is fine. 

When the tag is merged it will look and see if there is a newer build in
rawhide already. If so, it won't take the mass rebuild one in. 

kevin


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Re: Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread Neal Gompa
On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 9:53 AM Florian Weimer  wrote:
>
> * Matthew Garrett:
>
> > a) Does this seem like a good idea?
> > b) If so, is dealing with it via udev rules the right approach? This way
> > seems desktop-agnostic
> > c) Where should it ship, and what should the process be for disabling it
> > for people who need this functionality?
>
> Maybe a first step would be to disable automounting while the screen is
> locked.
>
> > Long-term I'd love to see more work put into having FUSE support for
> > these and leaving the in-kernel fs to stuff we know is trustworthy, but
> > that's rather more work.
>
> Fedora moved in the opposite direction (from gvfs to unprivileged
> mounting via udisks2 IIRC).
>

Several years ago, SUSE distributions moved to disabling the modules
by default for a number of filesystems, but making it pretty easy to
turn them back on:
https://github.com/openSUSE/suse-module-tools/pull/5

We could take a similar approach, maybe...?

openSUSE discussed this back in 2019:
https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/fact...@lists.opensuse.org/thread/NCNVFI53B4OSD3E2BVW5QY5MYKMYLH7G/#NCNVFI53B4OSD3E2BVW5QY5MYKMYLH7G




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Re: Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread Florian Weimer
* Matthew Garrett:

> a) Does this seem like a good idea?
> b) If so, is dealing with it via udev rules the right approach? This way 
> seems desktop-agnostic
> c) Where should it ship, and what should the process be for disabling it 
> for people who need this functionality?

Maybe a first step would be to disable automounting while the screen is
locked.

> Long-term I'd love to see more work put into having FUSE support for 
> these and leaving the in-kernel fs to stuff we know is trustworthy, but 
> that's rather more work.

Fedora moved in the opposite direction (from gvfs to unprivileged
mounting via udisks2 IIRC).

Thanks,
Florian
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Re: Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread Michael Catanzaro
I've been thinking about this for a while. The status quo is really 
awful.


On Sat, Jul 22 2023 at 11:31:22 AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek 
 wrote:

A bigger problem I see, is that if a user plugins in a usb stick,
expecting to make use of it, and it's not automounted without any
explanation, they are most likely to just click for it to be mounted,
or to even issue an explicit 'mount', defeating the whole protection.


Yup, there's the problem. The user will almost always mount it 
manually, so disabling automount seems pointless.



A more reasonable UI would be to display a pop-up that says "Device
ASDF uses file system AmigaFS 1982 which is not well supported. See
https://some.link/ for details. Do you want to a) mount once, b) not
mount, c) mount this fs type always?". This would require some work
in DE.


The UI would have to not mention technical details like the name of the 
filesystem. Also, warning a user that the filesystem is not 
"well-supported" is also not likely to accomplish much. The user 
plugged in the USB stick in order to look at files, and will almost 
always choose to do so if presented with the option. Even if we warn 
that the device may be malicious (which we don't actually know), users 
will still just think about it and decide "probably not, I want to see 
my files."


The desktop security model assumes the kernel is robust to malformed 
filesystems and removing that assumption is just not workable. This 
development mindset might be prevalent among kernel developers, but 
it's not acceptable for desktop users.  Filesystems that are not 
designed to be robust to untrusted input should be disabled outright 
and not supported at all. I'm not sure how practical this actually is, 
though, because I think it would probably entail disabling common 
filesystems (ext4? xfs? btrfs?) in addition to uncommon filesystems. 
Starting with disabling uncommon filesystems is better than nothing, 
though.


Michael

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Re: F40 Change: Privacy-preserving Telemetry for Fedora Workstation (System-Wide)

2023-07-22 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Sat, Jul 22 2023 at 02:44:30 AM +, "Smith, Stewart via devel" 
 wrote:
I’d almost prefer we work out a policy where anything of the sort 
is disabled by default, and with a distro-wide standard bcond to not 
even compile it in as an option. (No, I don’t quite know how that 
could be worded sensibly as a policy…. but it’s where I think 
I’d prefer to start from).


You can just not package the eos- packages (eos-metrics, 
eos-event-recorder-daemon, eos-metrics-instrumentation). 
eos-event-recorder-daemon is the package that actually sends metrics. 
Without that, no metrics. And nothing should have a hard dependency on 
it, so no bconds should be needed. If you have some denylist somewhere 
that throws an error if an unwanted package exists, that should 
robustly ensure it's never enabled.


For everything else, the test for whether to send metrics is "is the 
event recorder bus name owned?" so no conditional compilation or bconds 
is needed.


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Re: Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 07:01:34AM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> A discussion within Debian again brought up the problem that:
> 
> 1) Automounting of removable media exposes the kernel to a lot of 
> untrusted input 
> 2) Kernel upstream are not terribly concerned with ensuring that kernel 
> filesystems are resilient against deliberately malformed filesystems so 
> are mostly not proactively looking for bugs there
> 3) Uncommonly used filesystems are less likely to be tested against 
> adverse input in the real world and so are more likely to contain 
> exploitable bugs
> 
> There are various cases where people do need to make use of uncommon 
> filesystems, but the majority of them aren't related to removable media. 
> udisks2 supports setting the UDISKS_AUTO variable to 0 on devices that
> shouldn't be automounted, which means something like:
> 
> SUBSYSTEM!="block", GOTO="udisks_insecure_fs_end"
> ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="hfs", ENV{UDISKS_AUTO}="0"
> # repeat as necessary for anything else that shouldn't be automounted
> LABEL="udisks_insecure_fs_end"
> 
> ought to be enough. So:
> 
> a) Does this seem like a good idea?

In general, yes. I think the issue can be summed up as:

if you allow an attacker to plug in and automount a USB with an
arbitrary file system, it's almost certain that they will be able to
make the kernel to undefined behaviour. If the list of filesystem
types is limited to the best-supported file system types, there is a
reasonable chance that the attack will fail. By limiting the list
of fs types, we pragmatically make the attack much harder.

FWIW, systemd merged a patch to do something similar in a different
context: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/80ce8580f5.

> b) If so, is dealing with it via udev rules the right approach? This way 
> seems desktop-agnostic

The udev-based approach would work, and is something that could be
used right now. Nevertheless, it's not very user friendly. Some users
will want to override the list, and with the udev-rule-based approach
this is doable but not very convenient.

A bigger problem I see, is that if a user plugins in a usb stick,
expecting to make use of it, and it's not automounted without any
explanation, they are most likely to just click for it to be mounted,
or to even issue an explicit 'mount', defeating the whole protection.

A more reasonable UI would be to display a pop-up that says "Device
ASDF uses file system AmigaFS 1982 which is not well supported. See
https://some.link/ for details. Do you want to a) mount once, b) not
mount, c) mount this fs type always?". This would require some work
in DE.

> c) Where should it ship, and what should the process be for disabling it 
> for people who need this functionality?

> SUBSYSTEM!="block", GOTO="udisks_insecure_fs_end"
> ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="hfs", ENV{UDISKS_AUTO}="0"
> # repeat as necessary for anything else that shouldn't be automounted
> LABEL="udisks_insecure_fs_end"

Since those rules are for udisks, I think they should be part of the
udisks package.

If this is done, it'd be much better to make the rule configurable.
So maybe something like this:
SUBSYSTEM=="block", ACTION!="remove", 
PROGRAM="/usr/libexec/fstype-automount-policy", RESULT=="?*", 
ENV{UDISKS_AUTO}="$result"

And the program /usr/libexec/fstype-automount-handline would
have a built-in list, but also look for /etc/kernel/fstype-automount.conf
that would include lists like AUTOMOUNT_FSTYPE_ALLOW=
and AUTOMOUNT_FSTYPE_DISALLOW=.

We could then reuse this machinery in other places, not just udisks.
Obiously this is a very rought draft, but I think it should be extensible
and configurable.

> Long-term I'd love to see more work put into having FUSE support for 
> these and leaving the in-kernel fs to stuff we know is trustworthy, but 
> that's rather more work.

Yep.

Zbyszek
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Re: Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread Richard W.M. Jones
On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 07:01:34AM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> A discussion within Debian again brought up the problem that:
> 
> 1) Automounting of removable media exposes the kernel to a lot of 
> untrusted input 
> 2) Kernel upstream are not terribly concerned with ensuring that kernel 
> filesystems are resilient against deliberately malformed filesystems so 
> are mostly not proactively looking for bugs there
> 3) Uncommonly used filesystems are less likely to be tested against 
> adverse input in the real world and so are more likely to contain 
> exploitable bugs
> 
> There are various cases where people do need to make use of uncommon 
> filesystems, but the majority of them aren't related to removable media. 
> udisks2 supports setting the UDISKS_AUTO variable to 0 on devices that
> shouldn't be automounted, which means something like:
> 
> SUBSYSTEM!="block", GOTO="udisks_insecure_fs_end"
> ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="hfs", ENV{UDISKS_AUTO}="0"
> # repeat as necessary for anything else that shouldn't be automounted
> LABEL="udisks_insecure_fs_end"
> 
> ought to be enough. So:
> 
> a) Does this seem like a good idea?
> b) If so, is dealing with it via udev rules the right approach? This way 
> seems desktop-agnostic
> c) Where should it ship, and what should the process be for disabling it 
> for people who need this functionality?
> 
> Long-term I'd love to see more work put into having FUSE support for 
> these and leaving the in-kernel fs to stuff we know is trustworthy, but 
> that's rather more work.

Well, libguestfs is a thing.

Are any filesystems really trusted?

I do take your point though that some kernel-supported filesystems are
hardly ever used and you should probably need to take special steps to
expose them to your kernel.  At least Fedora no longer enables the BBC
Micro filesystem, last widely used in the 1980s.

Rich.

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Re: dist-git: Diverging branches can't be fast-forwarded

2023-07-22 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 09:08:37AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote:
> Dne 21. 07. 23 v 10:50 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek napsal(a):
> > > Is this expected? Or is this sign of something malicious happenening?
> > Dunno. Generally the most likely explanation would be that you have local
> > commits. But if that is impossible, then something strange is going on.
> > Can you identify the repos in question?
> 
> It took some time... I found one:
> 
> It is a package xorg-x11-xdm
> 
> Now I see:
> 
> * 1ee5a42 (HEAD -> rawhide, origin/rawhide, origin/main, origin/f38, 
> origin/f37, origin/HEAD)Remove duplicated patch
> * d97e4c6Unretire xorg-x11-xdm package
> * a9058e1Unretirement request: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11456
> * e776f0fOrphaned for 6+ weeks
> * 6f197fa (origin/f36)- Rebuilt for 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_36_Mass_Rebuild
> 
> 
> 
> But the checkout from past I have is:
> 
> * 8a9aff8 (HEAD -> rawhide)Unretirement request: 
> https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11456
> * e776f0fOrphaned for 6+ weeks
> * 6f197fa (origin/f36)- Rebuilt for 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_36_Mass_Rebuild
> 
> So the commit where it diverge is commit:
> 
> commit 8a9aff84896f28b93851579600afdc59b75b7710 (HEAD -> rawhide)
> Author: Tomas Hrcka 
> Date:   Thu Jun 8 15:06:43 2023 +0200
> 
>    Unretirement request: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11456
> 
> That has been replaced by:
> 
> commit a9058e1cce504e6b354b59d6711d76aeb0a8418c
> Author: Tomas Hrcka 
> Date:   Wed Jun 14 14:35:41 2023 +0200
> 
>    Unretirement request: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11456
> 
> I repeat myself: this my local checkout that was done by "fedpkg clone" and
> I never changed anything in this git repo. I have never made a commit there.
> I just read the data. And every two weeks I am doing git-pull there.

Tomáš,
do you know what's going on here?

Zbyszek
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Re: Fedora 39 Mass Rebuild started

2023-07-22 Thread Ankur Sinha
On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 13:31:57 +0200, Tomas Hrcka wrote:
> Oh, that thing again.
> Let me update the template so sed works correctly.
> 

The wiki page also looks out of date (still refers f38):
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

I had the usual question---should I be making new builds for updates and
fixes into the mass rebuild side tag, or is rawhide OK?

-- 
Thanks,
Regards,
Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
Time zone: Europe/London


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Re: Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread drago01
On Saturday, July 22, 2023, Matthew Garrett  wrote:

> A discussion within Debian again brought up the problem that:
>
> 1) Automounting of removable media exposes the kernel to a lot of
> untrusted input
> 2) Kernel upstream are not terribly concerned with ensuring that kernel
> filesystems are resilient against deliberately malformed filesystems so
> are mostly not proactively looking for bugs there
> 3) Uncommonly used filesystems are less likely to be tested against
> adverse input in the real world and so are more likely to contain
> exploitable bugs
>
> There are various cases where people do need to make use of uncommon
> filesystems, but the majority of them aren't related to removable media.
> udisks2 supports setting the UDISKS_AUTO variable to 0 on devices that
> shouldn't be automounted, which means something like:
>
> SUBSYSTEM!="block", GOTO="udisks_insecure_fs_end"
> ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="hfs", ENV{UDISKS_AUTO}="0"
> # repeat as necessary for anything else that shouldn't be automounted
> LABEL="udisks_insecure_fs_end"
>
> ought to be enough. So:
>
> a) Does this seem like a good idea?
> b) If so, is dealing with it via udev rules the right approach? This way
> seems desktop-agnostic
> c) Where should it ship, and what should the process be for disabling it
> for people who need this functionality?
>
> Long-term I'd love to see more work put into having FUSE support for
> these and leaving the in-kernel fs to stuff we know is trustworthy, but
> that's rather more work.


Which file systems are considered uncommon in that context? And aren't most
attacks based on file systems used by windows, which makes them "common" ?
(Extfat, NTFS, VFAT)


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Re: dist-git: Diverging branches can't be fast-forwarded

2023-07-22 Thread Miroslav Suchý

Dne 21. 07. 23 v 10:50 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek napsal(a):

Is this expected? Or is this sign of something malicious happenening?

Dunno. Generally the most likely explanation would be that you have local
commits. But if that is impossible, then something strange is going on.
Can you identify the repos in question?


It took some time... I found one:

It is a package xorg-x11-xdm

Now I see:

* 1ee5a42 (HEAD -> rawhide, origin/rawhide, origin/main, origin/f38, 
origin/f37, origin/HEAD)Remove duplicated patch
* d97e4c6Unretire xorg-x11-xdm package
* a9058e1Unretirement request: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11456
* e776f0fOrphaned for 6+ weeks
* 6f197fa (origin/f36)- Rebuilt for 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_36_Mass_Rebuild



But the checkout from past I have is:

* 8a9aff8 (HEAD -> rawhide)Unretirement request: 
https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11456
* e776f0fOrphaned for 6+ weeks
* 6f197fa (origin/f36)- Rebuilt for 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_36_Mass_Rebuild

So the commit where it diverge is commit:

commit 8a9aff84896f28b93851579600afdc59b75b7710 (HEAD -> rawhide)
Author: Tomas Hrcka 
Date:   Thu Jun 8 15:06:43 2023 +0200

   Unretirement request: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11456

That has been replaced by:

commit a9058e1cce504e6b354b59d6711d76aeb0a8418c
Author: Tomas Hrcka 
Date:   Wed Jun 14 14:35:41 2023 +0200

   Unretirement request: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11456

I repeat myself: this my local checkout that was done by "fedpkg clone" and I never changed anything in this git repo. I 
have never made a commit there. I just read the data. And every two weeks I am doing git-pull there.


--
Miroslav Suchy, RHCA
Red Hat, Manager, Packit and CPT, #brno, #fedora-buildsys
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Restricting automounting of uncommon filesystems?

2023-07-22 Thread Matthew Garrett
A discussion within Debian again brought up the problem that:

1) Automounting of removable media exposes the kernel to a lot of 
untrusted input 
2) Kernel upstream are not terribly concerned with ensuring that kernel 
filesystems are resilient against deliberately malformed filesystems so 
are mostly not proactively looking for bugs there
3) Uncommonly used filesystems are less likely to be tested against 
adverse input in the real world and so are more likely to contain 
exploitable bugs

There are various cases where people do need to make use of uncommon 
filesystems, but the majority of them aren't related to removable media. 
udisks2 supports setting the UDISKS_AUTO variable to 0 on devices that
shouldn't be automounted, which means something like:

SUBSYSTEM!="block", GOTO="udisks_insecure_fs_end"
ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="hfs", ENV{UDISKS_AUTO}="0"
# repeat as necessary for anything else that shouldn't be automounted
LABEL="udisks_insecure_fs_end"

ought to be enough. So:

a) Does this seem like a good idea?
b) If so, is dealing with it via udev rules the right approach? This way 
seems desktop-agnostic
c) Where should it ship, and what should the process be for disabling it 
for people who need this functionality?

Long-term I'd love to see more work put into having FUSE support for 
these and leaving the in-kernel fs to stuff we know is trustworthy, but 
that's rather more work.
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