Re: bottlenecks that case my machine to freeze

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> basically there's no way for the compositor to
> tell the difference between "the key is being pressed for a long time"
> and "the computer is under such heavy load that the keypress end event
> hasn't arrived from the client yet". Of course it's a bit more

event should have a timestamp when they were triggered (not when they were
arrived)
if the trigger is older than X ms then do something special






On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 7:40 PM  wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:50 AM, Nicolas Mailhot
>  wrote:
> > I get the same thing without any special load. System would work fine
> > for hours and then input would start bugging.
> >
> > It translates into floods of keystrokes, or eaten keystrokes, or
> > keystrokes being fed to apps out of order. Requires a system reboot
> > to fix.
> >
> > There is a serious bug somewhere in libinput WRT input queue
> > management (priorization, ordering, and press/release detection).
> >
> > I use Logitech wireless keyboards and mice with the bluetooth usb
> > dongle. Don't know if that's your case too.
> >
> > Regards,
>
> I don't think it's a libinput problem. I was talking with Alex about
> this a while back, and if I remember correctly, he thinks it's a
> Wayland protocol flaw: basically there's no way for the compositor to
> tell the difference between "the key is being pressed for a long time"
> and "the computer is under such heavy load that the keypress end event
> hasn't arrived from the client yet". Of course it's a bit more
> complicated than that, but the end result is too many keystrokes, or
> eaten keystrokes. Something changed in F28 (or was it F27? recently at
> any rate) to make this bug occur way more often than it used to, and
> we're not quite sure what, but anyway, the problem is known to the
> relevant developers so hopefully might get fixed soonish.
>
> Hardware details aren't needed because it occurs for many developers on
> diverse hardware.
>
> Michael
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Re: bottlenecks that case my machine to freeze

[Muayyad AlSadi]

libinput ticket

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1643144

tracker miner ticket

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1643186

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:05 PM Muayyad AlSadi  wrote:

> > This is a very poor bug report because it does not list the hardware
> details of the machine.
>
> yes, it's a discussion. When I get to know more details I'll file a bug
> report. For example is it really "libinput"?
>
> > What is the output from "uname -a"?
>
> [alsadi@laptop ~]$ uname -r
> 4.18.10-200.fc28.x86_64
> [alsadi@laptop ~]$ uname -a
> Linux laptop.local 4.18.10-200.fc28.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Sep 26 09:48:36 UTC
> 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
> > What is one section of "cat /proc/cpuinfo"?
>
> it's 4-th gen i7-4710MQ CPU
>
> processor: 7
> vendor_id: GenuineIntel
> cpu family: 6
> model: 60
> model name: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4710MQ CPU @ 2.50GHz
> stepping: 3
> microcode: 0x25
> cpu MHz: 1339.496
> cache size: 6144 KB
> physical id: 0
> siblings: 8
> core id: 3
> cpu cores: 4
> apicid: 7
> initial apicid: 7
> fpu: yes
> fpu_exception: yes
> cpuid level: 13
> wp: yes
> flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
> cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx
> pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl
> xtopology nonstop_tsc cpuid aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl
> vmx est tm2 ssse3 sdbg fma cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt
> tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm abm cpuid_fault epb
> invpcid_single pti ssbd ibrs ibpb stibp tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept
> vpid fsgsbase tsc_adjust bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 erms invpcid xsaveopt dtherm
> ida arat pln pts flush_l1d
> bugs: cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass l1tf
> bogomips: 4988.65
> clflush size: 64
> cache_alignment: 64
> address sizes: 39 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
> power management:
>
> > How much RAM?  (The first 5 lines of /proc/meminfo .)
>
> I've 16GB of RAM and 8GB of swap on spin disks (no SSDs)
>
> at the moment
> $ head /proc/meminfo
> MemTotal:   16299908 kB
> MemFree: 8227004 kB
> MemAvailable:   11423928 kB
> Buffers:  287440 kB
> Cached:  3541396 kB
>
> but when the problem happens (tracker-miner is running all memory is used
> and swap is utilized)
>
> > The initial cause is a hardware failure [intermittent], but the software
> is not robust enough to recover.
>
> there should be a workaround, maybe rate limiting? a condition to drop
> such signals? what was the workaround before libinput?
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 5:33 PM John Reiser  wrote:
>
>> On 10/25/18 11:27 UTC, Muayyad AlSadi wrote:
>>
>> > There are some things that makes my machine to freeze   [[snip]]
>>
>> This is a very poor bug report because it does not list the hardware
>> details
>> of the machine.
>> What is the output from "uname -a"?  What is one section of "cat
>> /proc/cpuinfo"?
>> How much RAM?  (The first 5 lines of /proc/meminfo .)
>>
>> For instance, the RaspberryPi model 2B is subject to hardware(+software)
>> failures
>> of exactly the ilk mentioned: a USB-connected keyboard decides to send
>> "infinitely many" repetitions of the same character, as fast as it can.
>> The initial cause is a hardware failure [intermittent], but the software
>> is not robust enough to recover.
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Re: bottlenecks that case my machine to freeze

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> This is a very poor bug report because it does not list the hardware
details of the machine.

yes, it's a discussion. When I get to know more details I'll file a bug
report. For example is it really "libinput"?

> What is the output from "uname -a"?

[alsadi@laptop ~]$ uname -r
4.18.10-200.fc28.x86_64
[alsadi@laptop ~]$ uname -a
Linux laptop.local 4.18.10-200.fc28.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Sep 26 09:48:36 UTC
2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

> What is one section of "cat /proc/cpuinfo"?

it's 4-th gen i7-4710MQ CPU

processor: 7
vendor_id: GenuineIntel
cpu family: 6
model: 60
model name: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4710MQ CPU @ 2.50GHz
stepping: 3
microcode: 0x25
cpu MHz: 1339.496
cache size: 6144 KB
physical id: 0
siblings: 8
core id: 3
cpu cores: 4
apicid: 7
initial apicid: 7
fpu: yes
fpu_exception: yes
cpuid level: 13
wp: yes
flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx
pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl
xtopology nonstop_tsc cpuid aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl
vmx est tm2 ssse3 sdbg fma cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt
tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm abm cpuid_fault epb
invpcid_single pti ssbd ibrs ibpb stibp tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept
vpid fsgsbase tsc_adjust bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 erms invpcid xsaveopt dtherm
ida arat pln pts flush_l1d
bugs: cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass l1tf
bogomips: 4988.65
clflush size: 64
cache_alignment: 64
address sizes: 39 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

> How much RAM?  (The first 5 lines of /proc/meminfo .)

I've 16GB of RAM and 8GB of swap on spin disks (no SSDs)

at the moment
$ head /proc/meminfo
MemTotal:   16299908 kB
MemFree: 8227004 kB
MemAvailable:   11423928 kB
Buffers:  287440 kB
Cached:  3541396 kB

but when the problem happens (tracker-miner is running all memory is used
and swap is utilized)

> The initial cause is a hardware failure [intermittent], but the software
is not robust enough to recover.

there should be a workaround, maybe rate limiting? a condition to drop such
signals? what was the workaround before libinput?




On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 5:33 PM John Reiser  wrote:

> On 10/25/18 11:27 UTC, Muayyad AlSadi wrote:
>
> > There are some things that makes my machine to freeze   [[snip]]
>
> This is a very poor bug report because it does not list the hardware
> details
> of the machine.
> What is the output from "uname -a"?  What is one section of "cat
> /proc/cpuinfo"?
> How much RAM?  (The first 5 lines of /proc/meminfo .)
>
> For instance, the RaspberryPi model 2B is subject to hardware(+software)
> failures
> of exactly the ilk mentioned: a USB-connected keyboard decides to send
> "infinitely many" repetitions of the same character, as fast as it can.
> The initial cause is a hardware failure [intermittent], but the software
> is not robust enough to recover.
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Re: bottlenecks that case my machine to freeze

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> I use Logitech wireless keyboards and mice with the bluetooth usb dongle.
Don't know if that's your case too.

I'm using my laptop keyboard (thinkpad t440p), no external gadgets.

> (priorization, ordering, and press/release detection).

it seems that too frequent "fake" press/release cycles are produced for
some reason (possibly key release signal got delayed for some seconds which
would be translated into holding that key for several seconds)

it's more apparent when tracker-miner-fs is working in the background



On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 2:51 PM Nicolas Mailhot 
wrote:

> Le 2018-10-25 12:27, Muayyad AlSadi a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> > There are some things that makes my machine to freeze
> >
> > 1. I've noticed that if I have some heavy CPU usage (ex. running many
> > VMs or tensorflow training or having tracker-miner-fs working in
> > background)
> >
> > while typing somewhere (firefox, geany, ...etc) a flood of keystrokes
> > is send to the application (I know this because when I restore session
> > after firefox crash I see a million s in location bar, if my last
> > attempt was to type scholar.google.com [1])
>
> I get the same thing without any special load. System would work fine
> for hours and then input would start bugging.
>
> It translates into floods of keystrokes, or eaten keystrokes, or
> keystrokes being fed to apps out of order. Requires a system reboot to
> fix.
>
> There is a serious bug somewhere in libinput WRT input queue management
> (priorization, ordering, and press/release detection).
>
> I use Logitech wireless keyboards and mice with the bluetooth usb
> dongle. Don't know if that's your case too.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Mailhot
>
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bottlenecks that case my machine to freeze

[Muayyad AlSadi]

Hi,

There are some things that makes my machine to freeze

1. I've noticed that if I have some heavy CPU usage (ex. running many VMs
or tensorflow training or having tracker-miner-fs working in background)
while typing somewhere (firefox, geany, ...etc) a flood of keystrokes is
send to the application (I know this because when I restore session after
firefox crash I see a million s in location bar, if my last attempt was to
type scholar.google.com)
it could be related to libinput or something

so I got a crash not because of the heavy cpu but because of the flood of
key strokes passed to applications

2. tracker-miner-fs which can't be turned off and
I've spin disks not SSDs but my friends with SSDs also suffer from same
thing

I've a lot of data in my ~/Downloads (many projects, git repos, ...etc.)
It seems that all options to turn it off are outdated <
https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/9822/how-do-i-disable-tracker-in-gnome/

It seems that tracker-miner does not respect configuration

gsettings set org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files crawling-interval -2

in should_crawl function it checks if interval is -2 it supposed to get
disabled

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/tracker-miners/blob/master/src/miners/fs/tracker-main.c#L199

3. I got a flood of logs in /var/log/messages* and journal here is a summary

https://pastebin.com/u3imFcC4
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Re: firefox with

[Muayyad AlSadi]

this is awesome, this should be default.

does it look cool in KDE/xfce ..etc ?



On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Christian Stadelmann <
genodeft...@fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> After setting "widget.allow-client-side-decoration" to true and
> restarting firefox, I can see those CSDs even with default Fedora 26 and
> Fedora 27 builds. See also: https://lists.fedoraproject.
> org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/
> XXNOQ6GVGGNNTFGSEUIR3IXURMMRMOJK/
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firefox with

[Muayyad AlSadi]

I've tried firefox flatpak with Client Side Decorations (CSD) from here and
it was awesome, can we ship those? what is preventing them upsteam or a
compile-time option?

NOTE: htitle extension is not longer work with fedora 27 version of firefox

https://firefox-flatpak.mojefedora.cz/

> org.mozilla.FirefoxNightlyCSD - Firefox Nighly with Client Side
Decorations patches applied, hosted there
> currently hosted there:
https://github.com/stransky/gecko-dev/tree/titlebar-csd
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color management in chromium is broken

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

kindly look at this ticket

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1507472
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Re: touchpad became funny after last update

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> Switching to 4.11 fixed all issues for me.

me too

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 4:13 PM, František Zatloukal <
frantis...@fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> Just tested the 4.12.9 - Two Finger scrolling is working there just fine.
>
> 2017-08-29 14:22 GMT+02:00 František Zatloukal <
> frantis...@fedoraproject.org>:
>
>> Switching to 4.11 fixed all issues for me.
>>
>> 2017-08-29 12:34 GMT+02:00 Kamil Paral :
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:38 AM, František Zatloukal <
>>> frantis...@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey,
>>>> same issue here, tracking broken update and reporting bug still on
>>>> "todo" :) ; T440s
>>>>
>>>> List of updated packages in dnf update after which I started to
>>>> experience these issues:
>>>> https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/t6MCOw8kld6RaPoxJavsrw
>>>>
>>>> 2017-08-29 10:18 GMT+02:00 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek <
>>>> zbys...@in.waw.pl>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 10:03:34AM +0300, Muayyad AlSadi wrote:
>>>>> > hi,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I have thinkpad t440p
>>>>> > it was working perfectly
>>>>> > now I feel that it randomly pops right click menu  while scrolling
>>>>> with two
>>>>> > fingers
>>>>> > and fast cursor movement is no longer possible, it seems very
>>>>> painful to
>>>>> > move the cursor from edge to edge
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the same issue on Lenovo X1c. For me too is appeared
>>>>> recently, but I haven't tried to narrow it down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Zbyszek
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure it's this bug:
>>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1482640
>>> It talks about spurious middle click events, but I'm also seeing extra
>>> right click events and broken scrolling, I believe it's all tied together.
>>>
>>> Try kernel 4.11 to confirm.
>>>
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>>>
>>
>
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touchpad became funny after last update

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

I have thinkpad t440p
it was working perfectly
now I feel that it randomly pops right click menu  while scrolling with two
fingers
and fast cursor movement is no longer possible, it seems very painful to
move the cursor from edge to edge

here is a list of my last update

ansible.noarch 2.3.2.0-1.fc26
augeas-libs.x86_64 1.8.1-1.fc26
autocorr-en.noarch 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
bijiben.x86_64 3.24.1-1.fc26
bind99-libs.x86_64 9.9.10-2.P3.fc26
bind99-license.noarch 9.9.10-2.P3.fc26
ca-certificates.noarch 2017.2.16-1.0.fc26
coreutils.x86_64 8.27-6.fc26
coreutils-common.x86_64 8.27-6.fc26
distribution-gpg-keys.noarch 1.14-1.fc26
evince.x86_64 3.24.1-1.fc26
evince-browser-plugin.x86_64 3.24.1-1.fc26
evince-djvu.x86_64 3.24.1-1.fc26
evince-libs.x86_64 3.24.1-1.fc26
evince-nautilus.x86_64 3.24.1-1.fc26
expat.x86_64 2.2.4-1.fc26
fedpkg.noarch 1.29-2.fc26
firefox.x86_64 55.0.2-2.fc26
fpaste.noarch 0.3.9.0-1.fc26
gdb.x86_64 8.0-24.fc26
gdb-headless.x86_64 8.0-24.fc26
gdk-pixbuf2.x86_64 2.36.9-1.fc26
gdk-pixbuf2-modules.x86_64 2.36.9-1.fc26
gjs.x86_64 1.48.6-2.fc26
glibc.x86_64 2.25-9.fc26
glibc-all-langpacks.x86_64 2.25-9.fc26
glibc-common.x86_64 2.25-9.fc26
glibc-devel.x86_64 2.25-9.fc26
glibc-headers.x86_64 2.25-9.fc26
glibc-langpack-ar.x86_64 2.25-9.fc26
glibc-langpack-en.x86_64 2.25-9.fc26
glibc-static.x86_64 2.25-9.fc26
google-chrome-stable.x86_64 60.0.3112.113-1
gtk-update-icon-cache.x86_64 3.22.19-1.fc26
gtk3.x86_64 3.22.19-1.fc26
kernel-headers.x86_64 4.12.8-300.fc26
libappstream-glib.x86_64 0.7.2-1.fc26
libcrypt-nss.x86_64 2.25-9.fc26
libfastjson.x86_64 0.99.6-1.fc26
libglvnd.x86_64 1:0.2.999-24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26
libglvnd-core-devel.x86_64 1:0.2.999-24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26
libglvnd-devel.x86_64 1:0.2.999-24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26
libglvnd-egl.i686 1:0.2.999-24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26
libglvnd-egl.x86_64 1:0.2.999-24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26
libglvnd-gles.x86_64 1:0.2.999-24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26
libglvnd-glx.x86_64 1:0.2.999-24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26
libglvnd-opengl.x86_64 1:0.2.999-24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26
libnm-gtk.x86_64 1.8.2-3.fc26
libnma.x86_64 1.8.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-calc.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-core.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-data.noarch 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-draw.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-emailmerge.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-filters.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-graphicfilter.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-gtk2.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-gtk3.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-help-ar.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-impress.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-langpack-ar.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-langpack-en.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-math.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-ogltrans.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-opensymbol-fonts.noarch 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-pdfimport.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-pyuno.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-ure.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-ure-common.noarch 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-writer.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-x11.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreoffice-xsltfilter.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
libreofficekit.x86_64 1:5.3.5.2-3.fc26
librepo.x86_64 1.8.0-1.fc26
libsndfile.x86_64 1.0.28-6.fc26
libvirt-client.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-config-network.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-interface.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-network.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-nodedev.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-nwfilter.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-qemu.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-secret.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-core.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-disk.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-gluster.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-iscsi.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-logical.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-mpath.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-rbd.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-scsi.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-driver-storage-sheepdog.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-daemon-kvm.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
libvirt-libs.x86_64 3.2.1-5.fc26
lz4.x86_64 1.8.0-1.fc26
lz4-libs.x86_64 1.8.0-1.fc26
mcelog.x86_64 3:153-1.fc26
mesa-dri-drivers.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-filesystem.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libEGL.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libEGL-devel.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libGL.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libGL-devel.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libGLES.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libOpenCL.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libOpenCL-devel.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libgbm.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libglapi.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libwayland-egl.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
mesa-libxatracker.x86_64 17.1.7-1.fc26
nginx.x86_64 1:1.12.1-1.fc26
nginx-filesystem.noarch 1:1.12.1-1.fc26
nm-connection-editor.x86_64 1.8.2-3.fc26
nspr.x86_64 4.16.0-1.fc26
nss.x86_64 3.32.0-1.1.fc26
nss-softok

How does fedora handle enabled gtk modules

[Muayyad AlSadi]

Hi,

If we want to pack this in fedora we need to answer this question

https://github.com/p-e-w/plotinus/issues/20
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Would somebody do this package review

[Muayyad AlSadi]

Hi,

rpmlint is clear, upstream is involved, build is simple one linear, tested
on copr.

Thanks in advance.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1367033
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

Should we split the discussion about socket activation in another thread.

And discuss zookeeper service specifically here.
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

>
> Please don't top-post [1]
>

Sorry I was on mobile gmail client.
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

Will I do agree it's a hack.
But it's better than forking in bash.

And usually I don't care about the exact time socket/port is active because
zookeeper is supposed to handle fail over.
On Jan 12, 2016 7:54 PM, "Reindl Harald"  wrote:

>
>
> Am 12.01.2016 um 17:41 schrieb Lennart Poettering:
>
>> On Tue, 12.01.16 17:16, Muayyad AlSadi (als...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>
>> well. But if you can double fork() in Java you should be fine and can
>>>>
>>>
>>> it seems that zookeeper is doing the fork in the bash script using nohub
>>> not in java
>>>
>>> when it finished setting up its listening socket. You cannot script
>>>>
>>>
>>> typically I loop using "lsof" or "nc"
>>>
>>
>> Such sleep loops are ugly and a hack. It would be much better to fix
>> this properly with a clean notification.
>>
>> Doing such sleep loops will just help keeping up java's bad rep for
>> being slow...
>>
>> Also, what happens if the daemon is configured to listen on some
>> different port? Or on multiple ports? Are you parsing the daemon's
>> config file too to figure out what to watch for? YUCK!
>>
>
> the Fedora myqld unit does, mine is simplified
>
> the systemd-behavior that manual "systemctl stop whatever.service" don't
> prevent socket activation and fireup again the service is a systemd problem
> *you* have to solve if you want widely adopted usage of socket activation
>
>
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> Polling around a 1s sleep loop. That's a gross hack

that's 0.1s

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Reindl Harald 
wrote:

>
>
> Am 12.01.2016 um 16:09 schrieb Lennart Poettering:
>
>> On Tue, 12.01.16 15:57, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Am 12.01.2016 um 15:45 schrieb Lennart Poettering:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 12.01.16 10:22, Muayyad AlSadi (als...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> @Lennart Poettering is there a way to use something like
>>>>> "ExecStartPost="
>>>>> do the the notify with type=simple?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When would you even call that? Somehow your Java app needs to report
>>>> when it finished setting up its listening socket. You cannot script
>>>> around that fact
>>>>
>>>
>>> at the same point as for mariadb /  mysql
>>>
>>
>> ...
>>
>>>   usleep 10
>>>
>> ...
>>
>> Polling around a 1s sleep loop. That's a gross hack
>>
>
> besides that 10 us are hardly a second (the fedora build afaik is
> using a sleep 1) it works the last 5 years perfectly and "You cannot script
> around that fact" is wrong if you like it or not
>
>
>
>
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> well. But if you can double fork() in Java you should be fine and can

it seems that zookeeper is doing the fork in the bash script using nohub
not in java

> when it finished setting up its listening socket. You cannot script

typically I loop using "lsof" or "nc"

> Polling around a 1s sleep loop. That's a gross hack.

usually I use loop i over `seq XYZ` and sleep increasing amount (I start
sleep with 0.1s then 0.2s then 0.3 ...) then give up
and there is no initial wait

bash -c "for i in `seq 1000 10 1000`; do echo '' | nc localhost $PORT
1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null && echo $PORT is up && break; usleep $i; done"

> at the same point as for mariadb /  mysql

thank you this is what I'm talking about





On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Lennart Poettering 
wrote:

> On Tue, 12.01.16 10:22, Muayyad AlSadi (als...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> >
> > @Lennart Poettering is there a way to use something like "ExecStartPost="
> > do the the notify with type=simple?
>
> When would you even call that? Somehow your Java app needs to report
> when it finished setting up its listening socket. You cannot script
> around that fact.
>
> Lennart
>
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

upstream issue < https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ZOOKEEPER-2095

suggests the following

ExecStart=/usr/bin/java \
  -Dzookeeper.log.dir=/var/log/zookeeper \
  -Dzookeeper.root.logger=INFO,ROLLINGFILE \
  -cp /usr/share/java/zookeeper/* \
  -Dlog4j.configuration=file:/etc/zookeeper/log4j.properties \
  -Dcom.sun.management.jmxremote \
  -Dcom.sun.management.jmxremote.local.only=false \
  org.apache.zookeeper.server.quorum.QuorumPeerMain \
   /etc/zookeeper/zoo.cfg

and it's seems that this is accepted in their SVN (against trunk revision
1685685)




On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Muayyad AlSadi  wrote:

> >  - If the socket availability doesn't matter, remove the nohup,
> redirection, fork stuff and use a "Type = simple" service. Presuming that
> the java process runs in foreground this should be fine.
>
> passing -f to solr or start-foreground to zookeeper would short-circuit
> the "nohup" as it would use "exec java blah blah" like this
>
> start-foreground)
> ZOO_CMD=(exec "$JAVA")
> "${ZOO_CMD[@]}" "-Dzookeeper.log.dir=${ZOO_LOG_DIR}"
> "-Dzookeeper.root.logger=${ZOO_LOG4J_PROP}" \
>
> which is my preferred way
>
> > - If the java process runs in background anyway,
>
> no it's not. ZK's java process is a foreground process
>
> > - If you need to socket(s) to be available and type = forking doesn't
> make it (exits parent to early, doesn't fork) the code should be fixed by
> teaching it to issue a sd_notify (-> Type = notify).
>
> can we do this using some "side" command like "ExecStartPost="
>
>
>
>
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

>  - If the socket availability doesn't matter, remove the nohup,
redirection, fork stuff and use a "Type = simple" service. Presuming that
the java process runs in foreground this should be fine.

passing -f to solr or start-foreground to zookeeper would short-circuit the
"nohup" as it would use "exec java blah blah" like this

start-foreground)
ZOO_CMD=(exec "$JAVA")
"${ZOO_CMD[@]}" "-Dzookeeper.log.dir=${ZOO_LOG_DIR}"
"-Dzookeeper.root.logger=${ZOO_LOG4J_PROP}" \

which is my preferred way

> - If the java process runs in background anyway,

no it's not. ZK's java process is a foreground process

> - If you need to socket(s) to be available and type = forking doesn't
make it (exits parent to early, doesn't fork) the code should be fixed by
teaching it to issue a sd_notify (-> Type = notify).

can we do this using some "side" command like "ExecStartPost="
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> the problem here is the bash script wrapped around

in the good old days of solr there used a param passed to solr.jar to make
the fork magic in java (maybe it was --daemon)
but now it's done in bash with "nohup" followed by "while true  lsof
-PniTCP:$SOLR_PORT -sTCP:LISTEN" to detect if it's up before exit

the zookeeper bash script does not have such lsof check and I tried to make
it print usage

Usage: ZooKeeperServerMain configfile | port datadir [ticktime] [maxcnxns]

no daemon-related option

so the best choice IMHO is to short-circuit all the bash forking




On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Muayyad AlSadi  wrote:

> > the problem here is the bash script wrapped around
>
> just pass "start-foreground" and it will be short-circuit
>
>
>
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> the problem here is the bash script wrapped around

just pass "start-foreground" and it will be short-circuit
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

>> my point is that having a child double forked does not mean Zookeeper TCP
>> port is ready which is as bad as simple which is also does not indicate
>> when it's ready

> Well, then Zookeeper is simply broken.

sorry it's just me. I forget that the classic UNIX double fork do listen
before the double fork not after it.
I'm sorry again it would be for sure ready when the inner child is forked
if it was done the classical UNIX way (but it seems not, it's done by bash
see below)

but anyway. let's discuss how it should be done properly.


> recommended way of launching Java-based applications as system services
in systemd?

usually I love to pass -f to solr and I was considering passing "
start-foreground"  to make it foreground
because I don't have enough knowledge/trust in their bash scripts (and life
is to short to read them and review them)
so I just short-circuit all background and process management and make
systemd care about that.
this is "my way" not "the recommended way".
and of course I would love hear from people like you "the right way".

for example do they have a monitoring sub-process (to do auto restart)? how
do they handle reload or restart ..etc?
if someone run the bash script directly telling it to restart what would
happen ...etc.
all this is eliminated. I don't really care when solr is actually ready
because my web application does not need solr to start (refresh page would
work)

> Or should they all be launched by a shell script which implements the
double-forking paradigm?
> is that just guessing or proven?

I used to believe that the double forking is done by java (after the socket
is listening to requests) not bash.
but the bash script contains lines like this

nohup "$JAVA" "-Dzookeeper.log.dir=${ZOO_LOG_DIR}"
"-Dzookeeper.root.logger=${ZOO_LOG4J_PROP}" \
-cp "$CLASSPATH" $JVMFLAGS $ZOOMAIN "$ZOOCFG" > "$_ZOO_DAEMON_OUT" 2>&1
< /dev/null &
if [ $? -eq 0 ]
...
/bin/echo -n $! > "$ZOOPIDFILE"

so I believe the forking is done by bash without a ready socket.

@Reindl.Harald the above bash is doing the fork, without any listening
socket. so it's not guessing.

if you are like me don't really care about the exact time the socket is
ready just foreground with type=simple
if you do care about that either in the part that need it use nc magic

for i in `seq 9`; do echo "" | nc localhost $PORT 1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null
&& echo "$PORT is up" && break; sleep 0.$i; done
you can wrap it in /bin/bash -c "" if you need an absolute path.


> What about a simple JNI wrapper to sd_notify(3)? Shouldn't be hard, gives
the process a chance to actually signal when its' ready.

you can use "systemd-notify" in the bash script above just before "&& break"

but I would still go with foreground.

@Lennart Poettering is there a way to use something like "ExecStartPost="
do the the notify with type=simple?






On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alec Leamas  wrote:

> On 11/01/16 21:19, Christopher wrote:
>
> I'm a co-maintainer for ZooKeeper, and I'd like to help get this right,
>> if possible. More importantly, I'm interested in setting a precedent for
>> Java system services in systemd. So, forgive my ignorance, but what
>> exactly is the generally recommended way of launching Java-based
>> applications as system services in systemd? Is there a good model to
>> follow? A Java service that gets this right?
>>
>> Also, as I understand it, Java processes don't really fork in any way
>> that's useful here. The JVM has it's own internal threading model. So,
>> what's the best way for them to play nice with systemd? Should they all
>> be simple? Or should they all be launched by a shell script which
>> implements the double-forking paradigm? If the latter, wouldn't that add
>> a lot of complication that systemd is designed to eliminate with the
>> simplicity of writing units?
>>
>>
> What about a simple JNI wrapper to sd_notify(3)? Shouldn't be hard, gives
> the process a chance to actually signal when its' ready.
>
> Cheers!
>
> --alec
>
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

quoted from systemd.serivce manual page

>> it is recommended to also use the PIDFile= option, so that systemd can
identify the main process of the daemon.

my point is that having a child double forked does not mean Zookeeper TCP
port is ready which is as bad as simple which is also does not indicate
when it's ready

I believe zookeeper is designed to fail (join and leave without being
strict at the exact time when it's read)

I guess zookeeper do create a pid file in (/var/lib/zookeeper/data or
/var/lib/zookeeper/log ) I'm not sure.

is there a specific reason related to how zookeeper work for doing so?

is logj configured properly to use jouranld?

because I see in .service

SyslogIdentifier=zookeeper





On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 5:41 PM, Lennart Poettering 
wrote:

> On Mon, 11.01.16 15:32, Muayyad AlSadi (als...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > > "Type=forking" implies that depending services are started *after* the
> > forking and the service is *really* read (it needs depending on the
> > signatures a longer time for initalization)
> >
> > but I guess it needs a PID file path to work properly which is not the
> case.
> >
> > I'm not really sure about the readyness thingy in case of zookeeper but I
> > guess both simple and forking do not know when exactly the when port is
> > opened (I guess only notify does that)
>
> Type=simple is useful primarily for daemons which either use socket
> activation (recommended) to establish their communication channels, or
> which have no comunication channels. For daemons which establish
> communication channels on their own, one should use Type=notify or
> Type=forking instead, since these permit notifying systemd about when
> the daemon has finished initialization, so that systemd can start any
> dependending daemons only after that initialization is complete and
> thus the daemon may be talked to.
>
> Note that socket activation, as well as Type=notify require explicit
> support in the daemon, while Type=forking is compatible with classic
> UNIX double-forking daemons.
>
> With Type=forking it's recommended to specify a PIDFile= which systemd
> can read the daemon's main process from. If none is specified, systemd
> will try to guess the main daemon process, but that only works
> reliably if the daemon is a single-process daemon really.
>
> Lennart
>
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Re: is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> "Type=forking" implies that depending services are started *after* the
forking and the service is *really* read (it needs depending on the
signatures a longer time for initalization)

but I guess it needs a PID file path to work properly which is not the case.

I'm not really sure about the readyness thingy in case of zookeeper but I
guess both simple and forking do not know when exactly the when port is
opened (I guess only notify does that)



On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Reindl Harald 
wrote:

>
>
> Am 11.01.2016 um 14:06 schrieb Muayyad AlSadi:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> in fedora's zookeeper service < /usr/lib/systemd/system/zookeeper.service
>> we have the following line
>>
>> ExecStart=/usr/bin/zkServer.sh start zoo.cfg
>>
>> why not
>>
>> ExecStart=/usr/bin/zkServer.sh start-foreground zoo.cfg
>>
>> of type simple
>>
>> specially that file does not contain "PIDFile=" directive
>>
>
> type simple don't come without drawbacks
> depending service shave *no idea* if it is ready
>
> the "clamd" service as example comes with "Type = simple" which means when
> you are using clamav-milter you get at boot a ton of warnings while
> "Type=forking" implies that depending services are started *after* the
> forking and the service is *really* read (it needs depending on the
> signatures a longer time for initalization)
>
>
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is there a reason for starting zookeeper.service in background?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

in fedora's zookeeper service < /usr/lib/systemd/system/zookeeper.service
we have the following line

ExecStart=/usr/bin/zkServer.sh start zoo.cfg

why not

ExecStart=/usr/bin/zkServer.sh start-foreground zoo.cfg

of type simple

specially that file does not contain "PIDFile=" directive
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Re: packaging golang guidelines (like etcd, consul)

[Muayyad AlSadi]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:28 AM, Jan Chaloupka  wrote:

> *.src.rpm is reserved for a spec file, sources and patches. It does not
> provide any tarball with source codes. Or am I missing something?
>


sources  = source tarballs = tarball with source codes

or I'm mistaken.
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Re: packaging golang guidelines (like etcd, consul)

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> At this time, Go libraries packaged in Fedora are primarily for the
purpose of being BuildRequires for building Fedora binary RPMs,

since golang is like statically linked and does not prefer .so for
libraries (so far). I suggest never package BuildRequires RPMs for golang
(I think of it like .a libraries)

and for the offline building of golang binaries like etcd we might collect
dependencies in a way similar to python wheel and include them in the
.src.rpm

%build
tar -xzf %SOURCE2 -C golang-path/
...





On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 5:35 AM, Adam Goode  wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 10:11:08AM -0500, Jakub Cajka wrote:
> > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Adam Goode" 
> > > To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > Cc: "Matthew Miller" 
> > > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 3:47:42 PM
> > > Subject: Re: packaging golang guidelines (like etcd, consul)
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 09:05:09AM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Nov 01, 2015 at 05:44:42PM +0100, Jan Chaloupka wrote:
> > > > > >are there some fedora guidelines for golang apps?
> > > > > >are there macros and helpers for rpm?
> > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Go
> > > >
> > > > This needs help in going from a draft to real guidelines.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I am also trying to figure this out. Looking at actual
> > > packaged golang things in Fedora, I see quite a difference
> > > between the drafts and what I see in specfiles. There
> > > are a lot of macros copied everywhere.
> > >
> >
> > Could you please elaborate.
> >
>
> I figured it out. The generated packages are all from gofed.
> They all share a lot of generated macros and comments.
>
> > >
> > > Is there any more up to date guidance? It would be an
> > > improvement to even just copy/paste emails of discussions
> > > into the bottom of the wiki draft.
> > >
> >
> > This(https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Go)
> > should be most up to date. For discussion see FPC ticket
> > https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/382.
> >
> > Any input will be welcomed.
>
> When I was looking to make the specfile, I jumped right to the
> section in the wiki with the sample. I missed gofed completely.
> I will add a note to the wiki suggesting to try gofed repo2spec
> first before trying one of the sample specfiles in the page.
>
> >
> > Jakub
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Adam
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
>
> Adam
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Re: no influxdb for fedora 22, but there is for 21 and 23

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> Just curious, what are you using the package for?

I was just exploring. and found that it's strange that f21 but not f22 and
asked to see if this was intentional or a slip.




On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Jan Chaloupka  wrote:

> Hi Muayyad,
>
> i have requested to push the build into f22 stable. Still, there is no
> influxdb subpackage with binaries. Just curious, what are you using the
> package for?
>
> Regards
> Jan
>
>
> On 10/31/2015 05:19 PM, Muayyad AlSadi wrote:
>
> but there is an old "stable" one for fedora 21?!
>
> https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2015-0299
>
> how can this happen? did I miss something or it's normal?
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:14 PM, Tomasz Torcz 
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 04:58:31PM +0200, Muayyad AlSadi wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > it seems that influxdb is missing in fedora 22
>> >
>> >
>> https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?packages=golang-github-influxdb-influxdb
>> >
>> > [root@laptop ~]# cat /etc/system-release
>> > Fedora release 22 (Twenty Two)
>> >
>> > [root@laptop ~]# dnf -C info golang-github-influxdb-influxdb
>> > Last metadata expiration check performed 2:59:31 ago on Sat Oct 31
>> 13:57:20
>> > 2015.
>> > Error: No matching Packages to list
>>
>>   It stil being tested:
>> https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2015-14091
>>
>>   You can help by instaling it from updates-testing, checking if it works
>> and providing positive comment on Bodhi page.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tomasz Torcz   72->|
>>  80->|
>> xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl
>> 72->|   80->|
>>
>> --
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>> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>> Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jan Chaloupka
> --
> * Software Engineer  *
> * Server Experience  *
> * Red Hat Czech, s. r. o.*
> * UTC+1 (CET), jchaloup  *
>
>
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Re: no influxdb for fedora 22, but there is for 21 and 23

[Muayyad AlSadi]

but there is an old "stable" one for fedora 21?!

https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2015-0299

how can this happen? did I miss something or it's normal?


On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:14 PM, Tomasz Torcz  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 04:58:31PM +0200, Muayyad AlSadi wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > it seems that influxdb is missing in fedora 22
> >
> >
> https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?packages=golang-github-influxdb-influxdb
> >
> > [root@laptop ~]# cat /etc/system-release
> > Fedora release 22 (Twenty Two)
> >
> > [root@laptop ~]# dnf -C info golang-github-influxdb-influxdb
> > Last metadata expiration check performed 2:59:31 ago on Sat Oct 31
> 13:57:20
> > 2015.
> > Error: No matching Packages to list
>
>   It stil being tested:
> https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2015-14091
>
>   You can help by instaling it from updates-testing, checking if it works
> and providing positive comment on Bodhi page.
>
>
> --
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>  80->|
> xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl  72->|
>  80->|
>
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no influxdb for fedora 22, but there is for 21 and 23

[Muayyad AlSadi]

Hi,

it seems that influxdb is missing in fedora 22

https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?packages=golang-github-influxdb-influxdb

[root@laptop ~]# cat /etc/system-release
Fedora release 22 (Twenty Two)

[root@laptop ~]# dnf -C info golang-github-influxdb-influxdb
Last metadata expiration check performed 2:59:31 ago on Sat Oct 31 13:57:20
2015.
Error: No matching Packages to list
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packaging golang guidelines (like etcd, consul)

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

I'm on f22 and have consul and etcd from the repos

ldd /usr/bin/consul
linux-vdso.so.1 (0x7ffc98fa2000)
liblmdb.so.0.0.0 => /lib64/liblmdb.so.0.0.0 (0x7f99bc1b5000)
libpthread.so.0 => /lib64/libpthread.so.0 (0x7f99bbf99000)
libc.so.6 => /lib64/libc.so.6 (0x7f99bbbd8000)
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x562f58dbf000)

ldd /usr/bin/etcd
not a dynamic executable

I found that when CGO_ENABLED=0 it would be statically linked
the dynamic one like consul above is not actually dynamically linked
(because of the size)

are there some fedora guidelines for golang apps?
are there macros and helpers for rpm?
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Re: systemd & running legacy sys V init.d script for newrelic

[Muayyad AlSadi]

let's talk in general, any legacy init.d is supposed to work in systemd
and does this mean that /etc/init.d/functions won't redirect to systemctl
unless it knows that this very specific service implements systemd things


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Tomasz Torcz  wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 06, 2013 at 04:16:47PM +0300, Muayyad AlSadi wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > we are using newrelic to monitor our server, they use some init.d script
> > which does not seem to like fedora 18
> >
> > their script broke just after sourcing functions
> >
> > is there some workaround ? or different file to source for legacy
> software
>
>   Newrelic is not in Fedora, and appears not to be open source even.
> Without
> the SysV script it is impossible to guess what's going wrong.
>   Your best bet would be pressuring vendor into providing proper systemd
> integration.  We cannot help you here.
>
> --
> Tomasz Torcz Morality must always be based on practicality.
> xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl-- Baron Vladimir Harkonnen
>
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systemd & running legacy sys V init.d script for newrelic

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

we are using newrelic to monitor our server, they use some init.d script
which does not seem to like fedora 18

their script broke just after sourcing functions

is there some workaround ? or different file to source for legacy software
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Re: installer final touches matters

[Muayyad AlSadi]

my point was not about my specific case, I have managed to install fedora 18

the point is about to tell the user what he has done wrong and how he
should correct it.


On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Vratislav Podzimek wrote:

> On Sun, 2013-01-20 at 13:15 +0300, Muayyad AlSadi wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> >
> > the fedora's new installer got many innovative features
> >
> >
> > but it's missing many critical easy to fix final touches from user
> > experiance point of view
> >
> >
> > let me mention some
> >
> > I've tried fedora 18 live cd,
> >
> >
> > I was offered to choose LVM, standard or BTRFS
> >
> > and later went through partitioning process and when I'm done
> >
> > the "begin installation" button was disabled
> >
> > leaving the user without any clue or error message
> > I've done all steps in a proper way (I've prepared a partition for /
> > and swap ..etc.)
> >
> > I know what was the problem (as a fedora developer, I know that live
> > installation is just blind copying of an already made filesystem which
> > you can't change its type from ext4 to BTRFS)
> This is no longer the way live installation works. We now use rsync to
> place all files to the hard drive so the problem lies somewhere else.
> Could you please search bugzilla for a similar bugreport and if there is
> none such, file a new bug? Also any additional info (steps to reproduce,
> logs from /tmp and e.g. the output of the lsblk command) would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Vratislav Podzimek
>
> Anaconda Rider | Red Hat, Inc. | Brno - Czech Republic
>
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installer final touches matters

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

the fedora's new installer got many innovative features

but it's missing many critical easy to fix final touches from user
experiance point of view

let me mention some
I've tried fedora 18 live cd,

I was offered to choose LVM, standard or BTRFS
and later went through partitioning process and when I'm done
the "begin installation" button was disabled
leaving the user without any clue or error message
I've done all steps in a proper way (I've prepared a partition for / and
swap ..etc.)
I know what was the problem (as a fedora developer, I know that live
installation is just blind copying of an already made filesystem which you
can't change its type from ext4 to BTRFS)

in general we should not offer BTRFS option
and always tell the user the reason and how he should fix it

let's take this screenshot

http://i4.minus.com/j0HyRgwBFv38q.png

I believe the orange ribbon should be at the top
it's not status bad, it's an error flash message

we see 3 items, one of them "no disk selected"
it has the same level of importance as the rest two,
I believe its background or foreground should be made red or orange.

choosing the destination is scary, since people know there are some steps
might wipe the entire disk, the screen below needs a way to gently tell the
user that this step is not scare "the monster is not in this step"

http://i.minus.com/jWQMDfIBvDHZZ.png

later steps should *tell* the user what to do
eg. delete a partition then activate auto partitioning
or create an ext4 mounted as /

always tell the user what is the problem and how can he/she fix it
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Re: systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

[Muayyad AlSadi]

use binary format they said,
it will be fun they said!


On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:58 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"
wrote:

> On 10/09/2012 10:24 AM, Milan Broz wrote:
>
>> But the "minimal install" (whatever it means) is often used as base for
>> various
>> automatic appliance installs, test systems etc where you want to minimize
>> services and installed libraries (either because of "security" or because
>> you need simple testbed for development.)
>>
>
> As you points out "minimal install" means different thing to each of us
> for example to me it should be nothing more then the CoreOS itself with
> minimal set of tools and an install/update application ( yum )
>
> Does releng/fesco have it documented somewhere what they considered to be
> the minimal install set and why they have chosen to included to some of us
> questionable packages as part of that minimal install set.
>
> Like to me rsyslog since the journal is an integrated part of systemd.
>
> JBG
>
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RFE: kickstart repo config shoudl be allowed to accept --overwrite_groups

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

yum repo conf accepts overwrite_groups, but kickstart repo config does not
seem to accept --overwrite_groups

shouldn't that be easy to add ?
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pyside is now an official part of qt

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

after reading this

http://www.pyside.org/2012/03/pyside-becomes-a-qt-add-on/

how is this going to affect fedora ?

do we have PyQt4 apps in our repos ?

are we going to patch them to be

import PySide as PyQt4

or something like that
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Re: /etc/default in Fedora

[Muayyad AlSadi]

wasn't the topic about having debian's /etc/default/ instead of
fedora's /etc/sysconfig/
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Re: grub2 got strange power saving behavior (or is it my BIOS)

[Muayyad AlSadi]

thank you,
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grub2 got strange power saving behavior (or is it my BIOS)

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

I got fedoa 16's grub2 that manages the boot on my laptop

when my laptop is connected to battery the brightness in grub will be very low,
when it's not the brightness will be maximum

is this just my BIOS or there is some sort of broken power management in grub2
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Re: does /etc/sysctl.d/ really obeyed and does really override /etc/sysctl.conf

[Muayyad AlSadi]

>
>
> If 00-foo sets something to value A, and 99-bar sets it to B,
> and B < A, foo may not function correctly.
>
> This isn't an ordering problem, it's an exclusivity problem, because
> sysctls are system-wide, not per-package.
>

this applies to every thing,

if 00-foo sets foo as the best font for "Arial" and 01-monkey set's a
monkey as the best font for "Arial" then only one will be chosen

same for /etc/profile.d/ if we have 00-ps1.sh and 01-ps1.sh both set
$PS1, of course one of them would work
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webkitgtk3 and webkitgtk both installed

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi,

I made a spin with gimp pre-installed and found that webkitgtk and
webkitgtk3 both installed

the old webkitgtk is installed only because of gimp

is there any plan to port gimp to webkitgtk3
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Re: does /etc/sysctl.d/ really obeyed and does really override /etc/sysctl.conf

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> What happens if two packages want to set a sysctl to different values ?

that's why they are prefixed with numbers, the higher number will take
effect
eg. 99-foobar.conf

sometimes we have conventions for number ranges like this

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fontconfig_packaging_tips#Choosing_a_ruleset_numeral_prefix

50 User overrides
51 Local system overrides
...


On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Chris Adams  wrote:

> Once upon a time, Chris Adams  said:
> > Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett  said:
> > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:57:13AM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > > > Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett  said:
> > > > > No package should be automatically changing the sysrq policy.
> > > >
> > > > Why not?
> > > >
> > > > For example, I use a commercial backup program that makes extensive
> use
> > > > of IPC and needs the msgmni and msgmnb limits raised beyond the
> default
> > > > values.  Why shouldn't they be able to include that change in their
> RPM?
> > >
> > > Where did I say they shouldn't?
> >
> > You mean other than the quoted line?
>
> My appologies; I misread "sysrq" as "sysctl".
> --
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> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
> I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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Re: does /etc/sysctl.d/ really obeyed and does really override /etc/sysctl.conf

[Muayyad AlSadi]

>
> As I understand it, Muayyad has different problem. Right now, the
> /etc/sysctl.conf we ship is not empty. It has several values set, one of
> them is sysrq=0 he used in his example. No one set this is value, it's just
> default value and yet, no package can change it by placing its file in
> /etc/sysctl.d This would work only if sysctl.conf is empty and all default
> configuration is moved to /etc/sysctl.d/00-systemdefault.conf

yes exactly this is the case,
we have sysrq=0 in /etc/sysctl.conf

>> If a package places a sysctl file in /etc/sysctl.d/ then you can
>> override it with /etc/sysctl.conf, hence everything is as it should, no?
>> This whole logic is designed so that the admin's configuration always
>> takes precedence over vendor configuration. Which is the right thing to
>> do.

the admin can have higher number like 99-local.conf
or move every thing in /etc/sysctl.conf to /etc/sysctl.d/00-defaults.conf
and have a single line in /etc/sysctl.conf saying
# you can override /etc/sysctl.d/*.conf here possible values and their
defaults are found in /etc/sysctl.d/00-defaults.conf
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Re: does /etc/sysctl.d/ really obeyed and does really override /etc/sysctl.conf

[Muayyad AlSadi]

but this does not make sense

the idea behind all .d is to allow packages to provide default (either
kernel defaults or distro defaults)
because the other choice is to use %post and sed

eg. let's say I made a firewall package that needs to enable
forwarding, it would put it in a sysctl.d

what do you think ?
what is the added value of having .conf overrides .d ?


On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Lennart Poettering
 wrote:
> On Fri, 16.03.12 14:40, Muayyad AlSadi (als...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
>> hi everybody,
>>
>> in recent fedora releases I can see we have /etc/sysctl.d/
>>
>> but does it really get evaluated
>>
>> eg. let's put in /etc/sysctl.d/00-ojuba-enabled-sysrq.conf
>>
>> kernel.sysrq = 1
>>
>> and keep it 0 in /etc/sysctl.conf
>>
>> kernel.sysrq = 0
>>
>> then reboot then type
>>
>> sysctl kernel.sysrq
>>
>> it was reported that this would yield 0 (maybe when no wifi and no
>> network at all)
>
> /etc/sysctl.conf is interpreted after /etc/sysctl.d is. The former hence
> overrides settings in the latter.
>
> Lennart
>
> --
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does /etc/sysctl.d/ really obeyed and does really override /etc/sysctl.conf

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hi everybody,

in recent fedora releases I can see we have /etc/sysctl.d/

but does it really get evaluated

eg. let's put in /etc/sysctl.d/00-ojuba-enabled-sysrq.conf

kernel.sysrq = 1

and keep it 0 in /etc/sysctl.conf

kernel.sysrq = 0

then reboot then type

sysctl kernel.sysrq

it was reported that this would yield 0 (maybe when no wifi and no
network at all)
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why java-1.7.0-openjdk does not provide jre while do java-1.6.0-openjdk ?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

I found that I have two java

[root@localhost ~]# rpm -qa 'java*'
java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.1-2.0.3.fc16.x86_64
java-1.6.0-openjdk-1.6.0.0-61.1.10.4.fc16.x86_64
[root@localhost ~]# rpm -e java-1.6.0-openjdk
error: Failed dependencies:
jre >= 1.5.0 is needed by (installed) 
libreoffice-ure-1:3.4.4.2-3.fc16.x86_64
[root@localhost ~]# rpm -e java-1.7.0-openjdk
[root@localhost ~]#

I guess this is not right ?

if so please tell me to file a bug report
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Re: bug in fuse-s3fs

[Muayyad AlSadi]

>
> If you open a bug on fuse-s3fs with the problem you encountered, I'll gladly 
> fix
> it.

ok,
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=732939


>
> I've tried the google code s3fs as well, and not had any luck in fixing it up.
> I think thats probably a dead end.
>

I've tried the rpm in the review request and it worked as charm
I'd installed ntp and activated ntpd
I've also needed to install fuse (in order to use it in /etc/fstab)
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bug in fuse-s3fs

[Muayyad AlSadi]

is this project still active ?

if not then fedora should have rpm for the other s3fs project <
http://code.google.com/p/s3fs

if so then the following lines in the code should be fixed

#Set the env correctly
if self.AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID != None:
os.putenv("AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID",self.AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID)
if self.AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY != None:
os.putenv("AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY",
self.AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY)

if (os.environ.get("AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID") == None):
print "Need to specify AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID"
if (os.environ.get("AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY") == None):
print "Need to specify AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY"

as python docs says < http://docs.python.org/library/os.html#os.putenv

When putenv() is supported, assignments to items in os.environ are
automatically translated into corresponding calls to putenv();
however, calls to putenv() don’t update os.environ, so it is actually
preferable to assign to items of os.environ.

the code above set's env with putenv then read it with environ
the docs says just set it with environ and it will call putenv

so it should be

if self.AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID != None:
os.environ["AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID"]=self.AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID
if self.AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY != None:

os.environ["AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY"]=self.AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY
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Re: conflict in packages in fedora 15

[Muayyad AlSadi]

does tags: f17 in <
http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=257227
it's not pushed to 15, not even to 16

> $ repoquery --whatrequires netxen-firmware
> netxen-firmware-0:4.0.534-4.fc15.noarch

what packages requires this netxen-firmware ?
just itslef ?

can't get it
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conflict in packages in fedora 15

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hello,

what is the reason for this

Transaction Check Error:
  file /lib/firmware/phanfw.bin from install of
netxen-firmware-4.0.534-4.fc15.noarch conflicts with file from package
linux-firmware-20110601-1.fc15.noarch


and what requires netxen-firmware
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Re: some locales crashes gnome-shell

[Muayyad AlSadi]

please use the attached patch till we fix glib or fix mozilla
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=728889
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Re: some locales crashes gnome-shell

[Muayyad AlSadi]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:32 PM, Muayyad AlSadi  wrote:

> %A %Ol:%OM %p


%OIis replaced by the hour (12-hour clock) using the locale's alternative
numeric symbols. %OMis replaced by the minutes using the locale's
alternative numeric symbols.
it seems that Shell.util_format_date which relies on g_date_time_format ()
does not support those strftime formats

see

http://developer.gnome.org/glib/2.29/glib-GDateTime.html#g-date-time-format

http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xsh/strftime.html
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Re: some locales crashes gnome-shell

[Muayyad AlSadi]

found the reason
the following line worked
Shell.util_format_date("%a %l:%M %p", new Date().getTime());
but the following gave null
Shell.util_format_date(_("%a %l:%M %p"), new Date().getTime());

all _("...") worked except this above line

the reason behind this was
_("%a %l:%M %p")
evaluates to
%A %Ol:%OM %p

while
_("%a %b %e, %l:%M %p")
evaluates to
%A %e %B, %l:%M %p

so we just need to fix po/ar.po in gnome-shell

mean while is there any way to fix the null case so that it won't crash
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some locales crashes gnome-shell

[Muayyad AlSadi]

how can we debug this bug
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=728889

I tried the following js in firebug/firefox

var d=new Date;
alert(Date.toLocaleFormat());
alert(Date.toLocaleFormat("%Y-%m-%d"));

we need to test

Shell.util_format_date(format, this.getTime());

I tried gjs and js command lines but I was unable to import Shell
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gnome 3 menus and the freedesktop standard

[Muayyad AlSadi]

the spec says:
$XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/menus/applications-merged/

The default merge directories included in the 
element. By convention, third parties may add new  files in this
location to create their own sub-menus.

Note that a system that uses either gnome-applications.menu or
kde-applications.menu depending on the desktop environment in use
**must still** use applications-merged as the default merge directory
in both cases.

but actually I needed to link
/etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged/
into
/etc/xdg/menus/applications-gnome-merged/

where should I put my .menu file to create a new menu under applications ?
and does the patch below have any thing to do with this issue

* Mon Apr 11 2011 Colin Walters - 3.0.0.2-2

--- gnome-shell-3.0.0.2/src/shell-app-system.c~ 2011-03-26
08:24:46.0 -0400
+++ gnome-shell-3.0.0.2/src/shell-app-system.c  2011-04-11
12:56:52.665853268 -0400
@@ -199,7 +199,8 @@
-  priv->apps_tree = gmenu_tree_lookup ("applications.menu",
GMENU_TREE_FLAGS_INCLUDE_NODISPLAY);
+  /* FEDORA patch: use applications-gnome.menu */
+  priv->apps_tree = gmenu_tree_lookup ("applications-gnome.menu",
GMENU_TREE_FLAGS_INCLUDE_NODISPLAY);
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Re: WebKit(s) SIG

[Muayyad AlSadi]

I'm developing a pywebkitgtk application, so I'm interested too
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Re: cgit instead of gitweb?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

we are using cgit in git.ojuba.org and I like it very much.

BTW: why don't we upgrade cgit in fedora repos, cgit-0.8.3.2 was
released a long time ago, it support custom MIME types (the raw view
of png file will not show a text rubbish)
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Re: Need help for Gimp 2.7.1

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> error: File not found: 
> /builddir/build/BUILDROOT/gimp-2.7.1-1.fc13.x86_64/usr/li
b64/libgimp-2.0.so.0.600.1

is version hard-coded in spec %files
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Re: PackageKit need to be more intelligent!

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> Those packages *are* useful to people, just not the people you
have in mind.

the same way rawhide is useful for some people too but it is disabled by default

I guess the right way is to have a filter as a combo box applications,
docs or devel+sources

or at least some visual indication [ color  or icon ]
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Re: Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

[Muayyad AlSadi]

why do I smell COBOL ?
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Re: libsoup (Re: PolicyKit-authentication-agents in Fedora)

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> libsoup itself is a nice thing because it enables asynchronous HTTP
> access. But our libsoup package ic compiled against GConf, so it's
> rather GNOME than GTK.

since lx* triggered this thread,

I guess their (light desktops users) preferred browser is midori a
webkitgtk one, and that depends on libsoup which is compiled in fedora
with GConf support.

so it seems that GConf is almost a must in fedora even when using lxde or xfce
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Re: PolicyKit-authentication-agents in Fedora

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> It's not only GConf but also other things like gnome-keyring, **libsoup**,

sorry for this off-topic,
is libsoup a light gtk library, or a deeply integrated gnome library
I'm asking this because webkitgtk depends on it
rpm -qR webkitgtk | grep libsoup
libsoup-2.4.so.1
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Re: Live image from filesystem snapshot?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

I think this is a good idea

because many of our users don't have access to any repositories

I thought about rpmrebuild then creating a repo ...

Name   : rpmrebuild
Description: A tool to build an RPM file from a package that has already been
   : installed.

but that would be a big waste of resources and time ...etc.
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Re: kernel bug or coincidence

[Muayyad AlSadi]

as I said palimpsest disk utility did not report any thing

the smart output is attached
smartctl version 5.38 [i386-redhat-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11
Device Model: ST3500320AS
Serial Number:6QM0NP93
Firmware Version: SD1A
User Capacity:500,107,862,016 bytes
Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  ATA-8-ACS revision 4
Local Time is:Fri Mar 19 21:21:23 2010 EET
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x82) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status:  (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever 
been run.
Total time to complete Offline 
data collection: ( 642) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:(0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off 
support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:(0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:(0x01) Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine 
recommended polling time:(   1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:( 119) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:(   2) minutes.
SCT capabilities:  (0x103b) SCT Status supported.
SCT Feature Control supported.
SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME  FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE  UPDATED  
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f   118   099   006Pre-fail  Always   
-   172966470
  3 Spin_Up_Time0x0003   095   094   000Pre-fail  Always   
-   0
  4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032   100   100   020Old_age   Always   
-   635
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036Pre-fail  Always   
-   0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f   077   060   030Pre-fail  Always   
-   52651756
  9 Power_On_Hours  0x0032   097   097   000Old_age   Always   
-   3464
 10 Spin_Retry_Count0x0013   100   100   097Pre-fail  Always   
-   0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count   0x0032   100   100   020Old_age   Always   
-   635
184 Unknown_Attribute   0x0032   100   100   099Old_age   Always   
-   0
187 Reported_Uncorrect  0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
188 Unknown_Attribute   0x0032   100   094   000Old_age   Always   
-   38655296524
189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a   084   084   000Old_age   Always   
-   16
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   070   056   045Old_age   Always   
-   30 (Lifetime Min/Max 16/30)
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022   030   044   000Old_age   Always   
-   30 (0 7 0 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   038   021   000Old_age   Always   
-   172966470
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000Old_age   Offline  
-   0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count0x003e   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   95

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_DescriptionStatus  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  
LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Short offline   Completed without error   00%  3456 -
# 2  Short offline   Completed without error   00%   241 -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MA

Re: kernel bug or coincidence

[Muayyad AlSadi]

it happens with both kernels but it hanged completely  with the newer
one, and it freeze for seconds and then respond with the older one

at least is what happened so far.

is there a way that I know it's not a hardware issue on my HDD
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Re: kernel bug or coincidence

[Muayyad AlSadi]

my dmesg is attached


dmesg.txt.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
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kernel bug or coincidence

[Muayyad AlSadi]

hello,

I have experienced a failure like this twice on same day and once in another day

Call Trace:
...
[] kernel_thread_helper+0x7 ...

I have scrolled up and found that there is some sata errors

ata1: limiting speed to
ata1.00: SATA link up ...
...
this happened twice and it happened only with the updated kernel

my yum logs shows

Feb 15 00:35:35 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.30.10-105.2.23.fc11.i686

I'm now using the previous kernel for days and I've not encountered that error
and DeviceKit does not report any problem

my current kernel is
uname -r
2.6.30.10-105.2.16.fc11.i686.PAE

here are images of the problem

http://uppix.net/d/d/a/c4f09aa4209ac30230080fa5aa52d.jpg

http://uppix.net/b/8/1/e1a430ab2a3e0bb7478feed74eb53.jpg

http://uppix.net/0/0/c/667ca14c8b0da542cd92986de1cf7.jpg
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Re: Heads up: X server configuration changes

[Muayyad AlSadi]

> I'm not sure I understand exactly what you need here, but AIUI you just need 
> this:

what I meant is that the scenario of having a composed layout (eg.
Arabic/English or Arabic/French) should be part of QA tests

because a problem in them will case the user unable to login
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508628
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=493650

GDM in fedora used to reset grp:alt_shift_toggle to an empty string

of course when F13 alpha/beta is out I'll file full details if there
is a problem, I'm currently using ojuba 3/Fedora 11)
but I want to put you in the problem in advance as part of QA testing
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Re: Heads up: X server configuration changes

[Muayyad AlSadi]

the package description need to be changed

https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/system-setup-keyboard

"Hal keyboard layout callout"
it should be something like
"track system-wide keyboard layout configuration"
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Re: Heads up: X server configuration changes

[Muayyad AlSadi]

how about keyboard layout ?
f-s-keyboard (now system-setup-keyboard) used to send
/etc/sysconfig/keyboard
conf through hal to X

please consider the following points:
we need to specify two layouts with functional switching
(in previous releases we in ojuba.org were forced to hack and patch
many packages like gdm to get switching, for example gdm does this:
"system-wide conf should be ignored to let the user have a fancy menu
having all layout", then it fail to activate switching)

we need to specify xim as default input method because it's the only
input method that supports two-letters per key (needed for the two
letters لا in Arabic layout located on key "b")

BTW: how hard does it take to make the default input method support this ?
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Re: Would you use a programming language with missing features?

[Muayyad AlSadi]

just for the rerecords, only Gtk and Qt have good international support
tk and alike got serious problems rendering many scripts
including Arabic script (which is used by many languages and it's the
second most widely used script after latin script)
(wx works fine because in linux it depend on Gtk)

Python TkInter and tcl/tk is an example of big sad show case for linux
because in windows TkInter or tcl/tk supports Arabic perfectly

that's because the developers of freetype in Linux dropped opentype
support and moved that to the unfinished harfbazz

I hope when harfbazz is finished all toolkits that depends on freetype
moves to harfbazz
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