Re: Fedora 24 Schedule

[Dennis Gilmore]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:25:50 PM CDT Jan Kurik wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 1:36 AM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
> > On Monday, April 18, 2016 5:30:49 PM CDT Matthew Miller wrote:
> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 01:47:49PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >> > > Is it acceptable to have Beta & Final release dates for F24 as stated
> >> > > on [1], or we really need to slip these dates ?
> >> > 
> >> > From QA's side we can at least try to make the unamended date, as I
> >> > said.
> >> 
> >> Awesome. I'd really, really not like to slip F25 further, even if F24
> >> does end up with an adjustment. That's because that's targetted at Nov
> >> 8 (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/Schedule) already, and
> >> that gives us one week of slip before we're in Thanksgiving week, and
> >> if that happens, we're probably not really releasing the week after
> >> either, leaving with another December release (and people worrying that
> >> the F26 schedule can't possibly target May).
> > 
> > I think we have all of the releng changes lined up for Beta, though
> > another
> > week would let us get layered image build service in production. I do not
> > think that pushing 24 out an extra week needs to delay f25 in any way
> > shape or form.  Mostly I was worried we had not  followed policy and we
> > have perhaps not left enough time for developers to get their Beta fixes
> > in.
> 
> Thanks Dennis for your readiness as well as for opening this topic. I
> will take this as a lesson learnt and will communicate such deviation
> from policy in a better way if there will be a need to do such things
> in the future.

I suggest going forward we follow policy unless FESCo decides to make an 
exception. People know how long to expect between releases. I am not sure why 
you decided to not follow policy, but that decision has to come from FESCo not 
from you. and needs to be communicated with the whole Fedora community.  given 
the reminder on Fedora media Reminder we are not close to ready now. and 
really could use the extra week to try get things sorted out and lined up.

Dennis


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Re: Fedora 24 Schedule

[Jan Kurik]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 1:36 AM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2016 5:30:49 PM CDT Matthew Miller wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 01:47:49PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>> > > Is it acceptable to have Beta & Final release dates for F24 as stated
>> > > on [1], or we really need to slip these dates ?
>> >
>> > From QA's side we can at least try to make the unamended date, as I
>> > said.
>>
>> Awesome. I'd really, really not like to slip F25 further, even if F24
>> does end up with an adjustment. That's because that's targetted at Nov
>> 8 (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/Schedule) already, and
>> that gives us one week of slip before we're in Thanksgiving week, and
>> if that happens, we're probably not really releasing the week after
>> either, leaving with another December release (and people worrying that
>> the F26 schedule can't possibly target May).
>
> I think we have all of the releng changes lined up for Beta, though another
> week would let us get layered image build service in production. I do not
> think that pushing 24 out an extra week needs to delay f25 in any way shape or
> form.  Mostly I was worried we had not  followed policy and we have perhaps
> not left enough time for developers to get their Beta fixes in.

Thanks Dennis for your readiness as well as for opening this topic. I
will take this as a lesson learnt and will communicate such deviation
from policy in a better way if there will be a need to do such things
in the future.

Regards,
Jan

> Dennis



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Re: Fedora 24 Schedule

[Matthew Miller]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 06:36:02PM -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
> I think we have all of the releng changes lined up for Beta, though
> another week would let us get layered image build service in
> production. I do not think that pushing 24 out an extra week needs to
> delay f25 in any way shape or form. Mostly I was worried we had not
> followed policy and we have perhaps not left enough time for
> developers to get their Beta fixes in.

Also awesome, and I agree with your worry.

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Re: Fedora 24 Schedule

[Dennis Gilmore]

On Monday, April 18, 2016 5:30:49 PM CDT Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 01:47:49PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > Is it acceptable to have Beta & Final release dates for F24 as stated
> > > on [1], or we really need to slip these dates ?
> > 
> > From QA's side we can at least try to make the unamended date, as I
> > said.
> 
> Awesome. I'd really, really not like to slip F25 further, even if F24
> does end up with an adjustment. That's because that's targetted at Nov
> 8 (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/Schedule) already, and
> that gives us one week of slip before we're in Thanksgiving week, and
> if that happens, we're probably not really releasing the week after
> either, leaving with another December release (and people worrying that
> the F26 schedule can't possibly target May).

I think we have all of the releng changes lined up for Beta, though another 
week would let us get layered image build service in production. I do not 
think that pushing 24 out an extra week needs to delay f25 in any way shape or 
form.  Mostly I was worried we had not  followed policy and we have perhaps 
not left enough time for developers to get their Beta fixes in.

Dennis

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Re: Fedora 24 Schedule

[Matthew Miller]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 01:47:49PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > Is it acceptable to have Beta & Final release dates for F24 as stated
> > on [1], or we really need to slip these dates ?
> From QA's side we can at least try to make the unamended date, as I
> said.

Awesome. I'd really, really not like to slip F25 further, even if F24
does end up with an adjustment. That's because that's targetted at Nov
8 (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/Schedule) already, and
that gives us one week of slip before we're in Thanksgiving week, and
if that happens, we're probably not really releasing the week after
either, leaving with another December release (and people worrying that
the F26 schedule can't possibly target May).



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Re: Fedora 24 Schedule

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2016-04-18 at 22:41 +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Adam Williamson
>  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2016-04-18 at 15:11 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi Jan,
> > > 
> > > Looking at the schedule[1] today I am confused by one thing,
> > > Fedora policy
> > > states that any slip pushes out all other milestones.  which
> > > would mean Beta
> > > Freeze is next week not this week.
> > > 
> > > Dennis
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/Schedule
> > Er. Yes. That's a point.
> > 
> > I tend to just take it on faith that the schedules get adjusted
> > after
> > slips, but AFAICS, the F24 schedule was not adjusted after the
> > Alpha
> > slip.
> > https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Releases/24/Schedule
> > ff=439901=435873
> > is when the wiki schedule was adjusted for the Alpha slip, but the
> > only
> > date that was changed was the Alpha release date, no other dates
> > were
> > touched.
> > 
> > As things stand it's possible we could make the non-adjusted Beta
> > dates, though there's some missing test coverage we'd really need
> > to
> > get to, but it's definitely not what we've done before without an
> > explicit decision to *not* change the later dates.
> 
> I have only changed the Alpha release date and intentionally have
> left
> the Beta and Final the same. This has been communicated to Marketing,
> unfortunately (my fault) not to rel-eng nor QA. The reason was mainly
> not to affect F25.
> Is it acceptable to have Beta & Final release dates for F24 as stated
> on [1], or we really need to slip these dates ?
From QA's side we can at least try to make the unamended date, as I
said.
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Re: Fedora 24 Schedule

[Jan Kurik]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Adam Williamson
 wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-04-18 at 15:11 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
>> Hi Jan,
>>
>> Looking at the schedule[1] today I am confused by one thing, Fedora policy
>> states that any slip pushes out all other milestones.  which would mean Beta
>> Freeze is next week not this week.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/Schedule
>
> Er. Yes. That's a point.
>
> I tend to just take it on faith that the schedules get adjusted after
> slips, but AFAICS, the F24 schedule was not adjusted after the Alpha
> slip.
> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Releases/24/Schedule=439901=435873
> is when the wiki schedule was adjusted for the Alpha slip, but the only
> date that was changed was the Alpha release date, no other dates were
> touched.
>
> As things stand it's possible we could make the non-adjusted Beta
> dates, though there's some missing test coverage we'd really need to
> get to, but it's definitely not what we've done before without an
> explicit decision to *not* change the later dates.

I have only changed the Alpha release date and intentionally have left
the Beta and Final the same. This has been communicated to Marketing,
unfortunately (my fault) not to rel-eng nor QA. The reason was mainly
not to affect F25.
Is it acceptable to have Beta & Final release dates for F24 as stated
on [1], or we really need to slip these dates ?

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/Schedule

Regards,
Jan

> --
> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA Community Monkey
> IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
> http://www.happyassassin.net



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Re: Fedora 24 Schedule

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2016-04-18 at 15:11 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
> Hi Jan,
> 
> Looking at the schedule[1] today I am confused by one thing, Fedora policy 
> states that any slip pushes out all other milestones.  which would mean Beta 
> Freeze is next week not this week.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/Schedule

Er. Yes. That's a point.

I tend to just take it on faith that the schedules get adjusted after
slips, but AFAICS, the F24 schedule was not adjusted after the Alpha
slip.
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Releases/24/Schedule=439901=435873
is when the wiki schedule was adjusted for the Alpha slip, but the only
date that was changed was the Alpha release date, no other dates were
touched.

As things stand it's possible we could make the non-adjusted Beta
dates, though there's some missing test coverage we'd really need to
get to, but it's definitely not what we've done before without an
explicit decision to *not* change the later dates.
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Fedora 24 Schedule

[Dennis Gilmore]

Hi Jan,

Looking at the schedule[1] today I am confused by one thing, Fedora policy 
states that any slip pushes out all other milestones.  which would mean Beta 
Freeze is next week not this week.

Dennis


[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/Schedule

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