Re: Orphaned Packages in rawhide (2015-02-10)
On 2015-02-16, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Petr Pisar wrote: >> You are missing the point that Fedora clients can be run against >> non-Fedora servers. > > A remote aRts sound server? Sure, it's possible in theory > (http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde&m=101656194718836&w=2), but in practice: > * It was never a common setup. I don't buy this argument. Software should enable people to do things. Not to disable. > * Who is still running a remote aRts server? Remember we're talking about a > KDE 3 technology. RHEL 5 is pretty much the only still supported KDE 3 > distro in the world. It is possible in theory to start up an aRts server > manually on Fedora and RHEL (most other distros dropped aRts entirely by > now), but why would you use that over PulseAudio? The only reason we ship > aRts at all is for programs supporting nothing else (i.e., kdelibs3 and > some programs using it), so that aRts can forward their sound to > PulseAudio or directly to the hardware. > * Why would you want to use the legacy aRts for this purpose rather than > PulseAudio? I cannot speak much about aRrts. But the the ESound works over network. And it is indended to work so in contrast to PulseAudio whose network features are officially unsupported (e.g. the server terminates when last client disconnects without possibility to set otherwise so it's useless as a server). Also please note that supporting aRts (or any other SDL sound output) does not mean other people have to install aRts if the want to enjoy the SDL. It's just a build-time requirement. > * SDL is one of the last libraries to support aRts at all. Supporting it > only in SDL does not help users when all their other applications no > longer support it. If one of the sound libraries will be removed from Fedora, I will drop the dependency from SDL. It's so simple. On the other hand I cannot see a reason why to disable the support. -- Petr -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Orphaned Packages in rawhide (2015-02-10)
Petr Pisar wrote: > On 2015-02-12, Kevin Kofler wrote: >> >> Feel free, however, to build SDL without aRts and esound support. The >> only reason aRts is still in Fedora at all is for things that support >> ONLY aRts for sound output (in particular, the knotify in kdelibs3 and >> the kdelibs3 game taxipilot). There is nothing using aRts as its native >> sound server anymore, and there hasn't been since Fedora 9 (!). What will >> happen if you try to use aRts output is that an instance of aRts will be >> spawned, talking to ALSA, and terminated once the aRts-using application >> exits. In the default setup, that means you're running aRts on top of >> PulseAudio through the ALSA PulseAudio plugin, not a very interesting >> setup. (Better use PulseAudio directly.) And using aRts INSTEAD of >> PulseAudio is clearly not something we can or should support anymore, as >> most applications no longer support aRts, if they ever did. Esound >> support is similarly obsolete, it is only emulated by PulseAudio (we >> haven't been shipping the real ESD for a long time, I think since Fedora >> 8 (!)), so it is better to use native PulseAudio output. >> > You are missing the point that Fedora clients can be run against > non-Fedora servers. A remote aRts sound server? Sure, it's possible in theory (http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde&m=101656194718836&w=2), but in practice: * It was never a common setup. See the manual configuration steps required. We also no longer ship the KDE 3 KControl, so setting that option would be another manual step now. * Who is still running a remote aRts server? Remember we're talking about a KDE 3 technology. RHEL 5 is pretty much the only still supported KDE 3 distro in the world. It is possible in theory to start up an aRts server manually on Fedora and RHEL (most other distros dropped aRts entirely by now), but why would you use that over PulseAudio? The only reason we ship aRts at all is for programs supporting nothing else (i.e., kdelibs3 and some programs using it), so that aRts can forward their sound to PulseAudio or directly to the hardware. * Why would you want to use the legacy aRts for this purpose rather than PulseAudio? * SDL is one of the last libraries to support aRts at all. Supporting it only in SDL does not help users when all their other applications no longer support it. So I really don't see the point in keeping aRts support in SDL. I'm a bit less familiar with ESD, but as far as I know, the situation is very similar there. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Orphaned Packages in rawhide (2015-02-10)
On 2015-02-12, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Feel free, however, to build SDL without aRts and esound support. The only > reason aRts is still in Fedora at all is for things that support ONLY aRts > for sound output (in particular, the knotify in kdelibs3 and the kdelibs3 > game taxipilot). There is nothing using aRts as its native sound server > anymore, and there hasn't been since Fedora 9 (!). What will happen if you > try to use aRts output is that an instance of aRts will be spawned, talking > to ALSA, and terminated once the aRts-using application exits. In the > default setup, that means you're running aRts on top of PulseAudio through > the ALSA PulseAudio plugin, not a very interesting setup. (Better use > PulseAudio directly.) And using aRts INSTEAD of PulseAudio is clearly not > something we can or should support anymore, as most applications no longer > support aRts, if they ever did. Esound support is similarly obsolete, it is > only emulated by PulseAudio (we haven't been shipping the real ESD for a > long time, I think since Fedora 8 (!)), so it is better to use native > PulseAudio output. > You are missing the point that Fedora clients can be run against non-Fedora servers. -- Petr -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Orphaned Packages in rawhide (2015-02-10)
Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > I did a test build of SDL without the audiofile + arts + esound > dependencies (arts + esound also seem to need audiofile), and it > builds fine, so that is one route out of this. Audiofile is bound to stay, and SDL should remain built against it, as removing it would disable some features that some applications/games using SDL need. Feel free, however, to build SDL without aRts and esound support. The only reason aRts is still in Fedora at all is for things that support ONLY aRts for sound output (in particular, the knotify in kdelibs3 and the kdelibs3 game taxipilot). There is nothing using aRts as its native sound server anymore, and there hasn't been since Fedora 9 (!). What will happen if you try to use aRts output is that an instance of aRts will be spawned, talking to ALSA, and terminated once the aRts-using application exits. In the default setup, that means you're running aRts on top of PulseAudio through the ALSA PulseAudio plugin, not a very interesting setup. (Better use PulseAudio directly.) And using aRts INSTEAD of PulseAudio is clearly not something we can or should support anymore, as most applications no longer support aRts, if they ever did. Esound support is similarly obsolete, it is only emulated by PulseAudio (we haven't been shipping the real ESD for a long time, I think since Fedora 8 (!)), so it is better to use native PulseAudio output. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Orphaned Packages in rawhide (2015-02-10)
On 2015-02-11, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > If I'm reading that right, audiofile being orphaned affects SDL which > then affects some important packages like qemu. > The audiofile has already been unorphaned by mschwendt. -- Petr -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Orphaned Packages in rawhide (2015-02-10)
If I'm reading that right, audiofile being orphaned affects SDL which then affects some important packages like qemu. I did a test build of SDL without the audiofile + arts + esound dependencies (arts + esound also seem to need audiofile), and it builds fine, so that is one route out of this. Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com virt-builder quickly builds VMs from scratch http://libguestfs.org/virt-builder.1.html -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Orphaned Packages in rawhide (2015-02-10)
> audiofileorphan, ajax, alexl, caillon, caolanm, 1 weeks ago > group::gnome-sig, johnp, mbarnes, > rhughes, rstrode, ssp, xiphmont I've added myself there, since there are tons of deps on it down to even audacious-plugins and dozens of packagers are affected either directly or indirectly. Though I'm not familiar with this lib [yet]. There are no open tickets in bugzilla currently. Not much activity in the package %changelog. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
