Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 12:51 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 01:53:14PM +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 08:07:06AM -0800, Davide Cavalca wrote: > > > On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > > mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is > > > > there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > > proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > > relevant groups. > > > > > > The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server > > > and > > > Minimal variants. > > > > I think this is used by *all* server images. It offers to set the root > > password and add users, so without that you simply can't login ... > > systemd-firstboot can set the root user password, but it cannot create > other users. But maybe we should extend it allow that. We recently had > a discussion about adding support for creating "normal" users from > systemd-sysusers, and the conclusion was that we can add a basic mode > where /etc/skel is copied and the user is written to file databases. > If people think this would be useful, I could that this idea upstream. There's other pieces that initial-setup takes care of as well, it gives the option when creating a user to add them as an "admin" AKA added to the wheel group and I also believe if only a root password is set and no user created it may (it's been a while since I've tested) add the ability for root to ssh in to the host as without a user you can't access the machine remotely. Peter -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 12:21 AM Leslie Satenstein via devel wrote: > > > > I am a devout anaconda bigot, and I exclusively use the Everything.iso with > it. > Of course, I use it via terminal mode. > > A feature I relish in anaconda, is the ability to manage disks and > partitions.(using the right most radio button) > My system has 2 SSD and 6 disks, and with anaconda, I select all of them and > then > use the mentioned disk management to build the target system along with a > completed /etc/fstab. This is run during install and is a different usecase to initial-setup which doesn't offer disk configuration options. > If I was looking to improve anaconda, I would add a one or two line > description against each group. > the right most application selection column. > > As well, an option to offer a way to respond to what "Gerd Hoffmann" was > posting, > > Please do not add another tool, just embellish anaconda to include the extra > functionality. > > > > > Leslie Satenstein > > > > On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 06:18:47 p.m. EST, Adam Williamson > wrote: > > > On Fri, 2023-11-24 at 13:38 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I wonder, I thought that the server images are usually using Anaconda to > > create a user during installation. Am I missing something? > > No, I think you're right there. initial-setup is not part of the > anaconda-deployed Server package set. anaconda - as it does for all > other spins/editions except Workstation - requires you to create a root > password or admin user, so you can always log in. > > I think if initial-setup was included in the package set, it would run > on boot if you didn't *both* set the root password *and* create a user > (as it does on spins where it is installed, e.g. KDE), but it isn't. > > I tested this with a Server DVD image I had lying around; doing an > install with only root password (no user created) didn't run initial- > setup on boot, and rpm shows initial-setup not installed. > > However, as dgilmore noted, the Server ARM disk images certainly do > rely on initial-setup. > > > > > Best Regards, > > Jirka > > > > Dne 22. 11. 23 v 13:53 Gerd Hoffmann napsal(a): > > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 08:07:06AM -0800, Davide Cavalca wrote: > > > > On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > > > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > > > mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is > > > > > there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > > > proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > > > relevant groups. > > > > The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server > > > > and > > > > Minimal variants. > > > I think this is used by *all* server images. It offers to set the root > > > password and add users, so without that you simply can't login ... > > > > > > take care, > > >Gerd > > > -- > > > ___ > > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > > List Archives: > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > Do not reply to spam, report it: > > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue > > -- > > ___ > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam, report it: > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue > > -- > Adam Williamson (he/him/his) > Fedora QA > Fedora Chat: @adamwill:fedora.im | Mastodon: @ad...@fosstodon.org > https://www.happyassassin.net > > > > > -- > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue > -- > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraprojec
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 12:39 PM Jiri Konecny wrote: > > Hi, > > I wonder, I thought that the server images are usually using Anaconda to > create a user during installation. Am I missing something? For example there's cases where a vendor ships the OS pre-installed on the device and they won't know what the user will want here, often you also need to set the language/keyboard as well before creating users/setting passwords. I believe also in the RHEL case it has the ability for the user to accept an agreement before they can create users/set passwords etc and I'm not sure how that would integrate into the systemd variant. > Best Regards, > Jirka > > Dne 22. 11. 23 v 13:53 Gerd Hoffmann napsal(a): > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 08:07:06AM -0800, Davide Cavalca wrote: > >> On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: > >>> Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > >>> functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > >>> mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is > >>> there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > >>> proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > >>> relevant groups. > >> The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server and > >> Minimal variants. > > I think this is used by *all* server images. It offers to set the root > > password and add users, so without that you simply can't login ... > > > > take care, > >Gerd > > -- > > ___ > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam, report it: > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue > -- > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: [Anaconda-devel] Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Mon, 2023-11-27 at 08:51 -0500, Neal Gompa wrote: > On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 8:13 AM wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2023-11-24 at 15:15 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > On Tue, 2023-11-21 at 13:34 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or > > > > workflow? > > > > What > > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the > > > > text > > > > mode > > > > or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is > > > > there > > > > anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > > proposed > > > > alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > > relevant > > > > groups. > > > > > > In addition to the other uses identified: if you do a KDE install > > > and > > > set the root password but do not create a user account, i-s will > > > run > > > on > > > first boot and allow (not sure if it requires) user creation. > > > This is > > > probably the case for other non-GNOME desktops too (GNOME uses > > > its > > > own > > > gnome-initial-setup). > > Sure, but is this really necessary on those images ? If it only > > triggers if no user account is present only only provides user > > creation, what about enforcing user creation at installation time > > instead ? > > > > That is not possible in all cases. Two cases offhand that it is not > possible on: > > * ARM images > * OEM preload images > > These two cases require us to not pre-configure a user but also allow > the user to be created on first boot. Sure - those require to run int the reconfig mode, where Initial Setup provides access to all the screens it can run on a booted machine. I was just wondering if the Live media use case, where Initial Setup only creates a user account if none is created at installation time makes sense & could be perhaps replaced by Anaconda just requiring users to create a user at installation time on the Live images. That could reduce the overall complexity a bit. :) > > > -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 6:51 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 01:53:14PM +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 08:07:06AM -0800, Davide Cavalca wrote: > > > On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > > mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is > > > > there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > > proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > > relevant groups. > > > > > > The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server > > > and > > > Minimal variants. > > > > I think this is used by *all* server images. It offers to set the root > > password and add users, so without that you simply can't login ... > > systemd-firstboot can set the root user password, but it cannot create > other users. But maybe we should extend it allow that. We recently had > a discussion about adding support for creating "normal" users from > systemd-sysusers, and the conclusion was that we can add a basic mode > where /etc/skel is copied and the user is written to file databases. > If people think this would be useful, I could that this idea upstream. Does it allow for setting the network, language, hostname, and timezone? Dennis -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
I am not sure of the difference between text mode and graphical mode, except that I am an end-user of anaconda,and I use it via the Everything.iso. Therein, anaconda is a mixed mode, with text / graphical for partition management(creating, mounting,deleting) and graphical mode for application and application-group selection/subselection. FWIW, I like the existing functionality, with one suggest enhancement -- put a 2 line text description for each of the subgroups that are part of a main group. Leslie Satenstein On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 11:22:17 a.m. EST, Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2023-11-27 at 14:12 +0100, mkol...@redhat.com wrote: > On Fri, 2023-11-24 at 15:15 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Tue, 2023-11-21 at 13:34 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? > > > What > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > mode > > > or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there > > > anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > proposed > > > alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > relevant > > > groups. > > > > In addition to the other uses identified: if you do a KDE install and > > set the root password but do not create a user account, i-s will run > > on > > first boot and allow (not sure if it requires) user creation. This is > > probably the case for other non-GNOME desktops too (GNOME uses its > > own > > gnome-initial-setup). > Sure, but is this really necessary on those images ? If it only > triggers if no user account is present only only provides user > creation, what about enforcing user creation at installation time > instead ? > > That would simplify the whole thing, as there would be less scenarios > to test/debug/go wrong. The problem, as always, is different use cases. We want to very strongly encourage people to create a user before logging in on KDE installs, as we really don't want people using KDE as root. But for a small headless install, someone might want to operate as root without a user account. Workstation has sorted this out by disabling user/root spokes in the installer entirely and having its own g-i-s which requires creation of an admin user, but we don't have anything like that in place for KDE currently. So we have to try and manage both KDE and e.g. a minimal or Server install as best we can, using essentially the same workflows. If someone wants to do some customization for KDE, of course, that could help. -- Adam Williamson (he/him/his) Fedora QA Fedora Chat: @adamwill:fedora.im | Mastodon: @ad...@fosstodon.org https://www.happyassassin.net -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: [Anaconda-devel] Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 7:53 AM Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 8:13 AM wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2023-11-24 at 15:15 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > On Tue, 2023-11-21 at 13:34 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? > > > > What > > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > > mode > > > > or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there > > > > anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > > proposed > > > > alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > > relevant > > > > groups. > > > > > > In addition to the other uses identified: if you do a KDE install and > > > set the root password but do not create a user account, i-s will run > > > on > > > first boot and allow (not sure if it requires) user creation. This is > > > probably the case for other non-GNOME desktops too (GNOME uses its > > > own > > > gnome-initial-setup). > > Sure, but is this really necessary on those images ? If it only > > triggers if no user account is present only only provides user > > creation, what about enforcing user creation at installation time > > instead ? > > > > That is not possible in all cases. Two cases offhand that it is not possible > on: > > * ARM images > * OEM preload images > > These two cases require us to not pre-configure a user but also allow > the user to be created on first boot. These use cases do more than just creating a user account, the user can also choose to set a root password, set the system timezone, set the system language, configure the network and hostname. I have pasted below the first screen you get on initial setup on the Minimal Arm image 1) [ ] Language settings 2) [x] Time settings (Language is not set.) (America/New_York timezone) 3) [x] Network configuration 4) [!] Root password (Connected: enp1s0) (Root account is disabled) 5) [!] User creation (No user will be created) Dennis > > > -- > 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! > -- > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Mon, 2023-11-27 at 14:12 +0100, mkol...@redhat.com wrote: > On Fri, 2023-11-24 at 15:15 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Tue, 2023-11-21 at 13:34 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? > > > What > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > mode > > > or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there > > > anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > proposed > > > alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > relevant > > > groups. > > > > In addition to the other uses identified: if you do a KDE install and > > set the root password but do not create a user account, i-s will run > > on > > first boot and allow (not sure if it requires) user creation. This is > > probably the case for other non-GNOME desktops too (GNOME uses its > > own > > gnome-initial-setup). > Sure, but is this really necessary on those images ? If it only > triggers if no user account is present only only provides user > creation, what about enforcing user creation at installation time > instead ? > > That would simplify the whole thing, as there would be less scenarios > to test/debug/go wrong. The problem, as always, is different use cases. We want to very strongly encourage people to create a user before logging in on KDE installs, as we really don't want people using KDE as root. But for a small headless install, someone might want to operate as root without a user account. Workstation has sorted this out by disabling user/root spokes in the installer entirely and having its own g-i-s which requires creation of an admin user, but we don't have anything like that in place for KDE currently. So we have to try and manage both KDE and e.g. a minimal or Server install as best we can, using essentially the same workflows. If someone wants to do some customization for KDE, of course, that could help. -- Adam Williamson (he/him/his) Fedora QA Fedora Chat: @adamwill:fedora.im | Mastodon: @ad...@fosstodon.org https://www.happyassassin.net -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: [Anaconda-devel] Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 8:13 AM wrote: > > On Fri, 2023-11-24 at 15:15 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Tue, 2023-11-21 at 13:34 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? > > > What > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > mode > > > or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there > > > anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > proposed > > > alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > relevant > > > groups. > > > > In addition to the other uses identified: if you do a KDE install and > > set the root password but do not create a user account, i-s will run > > on > > first boot and allow (not sure if it requires) user creation. This is > > probably the case for other non-GNOME desktops too (GNOME uses its > > own > > gnome-initial-setup). > Sure, but is this really necessary on those images ? If it only > triggers if no user account is present only only provides user > creation, what about enforcing user creation at installation time > instead ? > That is not possible in all cases. Two cases offhand that it is not possible on: * ARM images * OEM preload images These two cases require us to not pre-configure a user but also allow the user to be created on first boot. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Fri, 2023-11-24 at 15:15 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Tue, 2023-11-21 at 13:34 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? > > What > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > mode > > or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there > > anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > proposed > > alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > relevant > > groups. > > In addition to the other uses identified: if you do a KDE install and > set the root password but do not create a user account, i-s will run > on > first boot and allow (not sure if it requires) user creation. This is > probably the case for other non-GNOME desktops too (GNOME uses its > own > gnome-initial-setup). Sure, but is this really necessary on those images ? If it only triggers if no user account is present only only provides user creation, what about enforcing user creation at installation time instead ? That would simplify the whole thing, as there would be less scenarios to test/debug/go wrong. > > openQA tests this: > https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/2280185#step/_graphical_wait_login/1 > -- > Adam Williamson (he/him/his) > Fedora QA > Fedora Chat: @adamwill:fedora.im | Mastodon: @ad...@fosstodon.org > https://www.happyassassin.net > > > > -- > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
Hi, Good point, I forget about these deliverables are present. Best Regards, Jirka Dne 27. 11. 23 v 10:32 Gerd Hoffmann napsal(a): On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 01:38:27PM +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: Hi, I wonder, I thought that the server images are usually using Anaconda to create a user during installation. Am I missing something? Well, if you boot the install.iso and go through an anaconda install, then yes, users are created as part of that. But that is not the only way to deploy servers, there are also ready-to-use qcow2 + raw images which you can just boot without going through the anaconda install process. take care, Gerd -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 01:38:27PM +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > Hi, > > I wonder, I thought that the server images are usually using Anaconda to > create a user during installation. Am I missing something? Well, if you boot the install.iso and go through an anaconda install, then yes, users are created as part of that. But that is not the only way to deploy servers, there are also ready-to-use qcow2 + raw images which you can just boot without going through the anaconda install process. take care, Gerd -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
I am a devout anaconda bigot, and I exclusively use the Everything.iso with it. Of course, I use it via terminal mode. A feature I relish in anaconda, is the ability to manage disks and partitions.(using the right most radio button)My system has 2 SSD and 6 disks, and with anaconda, I select all of them and thenuse the mentioned disk management to build the target system along with a completed /etc/fstab. If I was looking to improve anaconda, I would add a one or two line description against each group.the right most application selection column. As well, an option to offer a way to respond to what "Gerd Hoffmann" was posting, Please do not add another tool, just embellish anaconda to include the extra functionality. Leslie Satenstein On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 06:18:47 p.m. EST, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2023-11-24 at 13:38 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > Hi, > > I wonder, I thought that the server images are usually using Anaconda to > create a user during installation. Am I missing something? No, I think you're right there. initial-setup is not part of the anaconda-deployed Server package set. anaconda - as it does for all other spins/editions except Workstation - requires you to create a root password or admin user, so you can always log in. I think if initial-setup was included in the package set, it would run on boot if you didn't *both* set the root password *and* create a user (as it does on spins where it is installed, e.g. KDE), but it isn't. I tested this with a Server DVD image I had lying around; doing an install with only root password (no user created) didn't run initial- setup on boot, and rpm shows initial-setup not installed. However, as dgilmore noted, the Server ARM disk images certainly do rely on initial-setup. > > Best Regards, > Jirka > > Dne 22. 11. 23 v 13:53 Gerd Hoffmann napsal(a): > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 08:07:06AM -0800, Davide Cavalca wrote: > > > On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > > mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is > > > > there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > > proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > > relevant groups. > > > The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server > > > and > > > Minimal variants. > > I think this is used by *all* server images. It offers to set the root > > password and add users, so without that you simply can't login ... > > > > take care, > > Gerd > > -- > > ___ > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam, report it: > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue > -- > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- Adam Williamson (he/him/his) Fedora QA Fedora Chat: @adamwill:fedora.im | Mastodon: @ad...@fosstodon.org https://www.happyassassin.net -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Fri, 2023-11-24 at 13:38 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > Hi, > > I wonder, I thought that the server images are usually using Anaconda to > create a user during installation. Am I missing something? No, I think you're right there. initial-setup is not part of the anaconda-deployed Server package set. anaconda - as it does for all other spins/editions except Workstation - requires you to create a root password or admin user, so you can always log in. I think if initial-setup was included in the package set, it would run on boot if you didn't *both* set the root password *and* create a user (as it does on spins where it is installed, e.g. KDE), but it isn't. I tested this with a Server DVD image I had lying around; doing an install with only root password (no user created) didn't run initial- setup on boot, and rpm shows initial-setup not installed. However, as dgilmore noted, the Server ARM disk images certainly do rely on initial-setup. > > Best Regards, > Jirka > > Dne 22. 11. 23 v 13:53 Gerd Hoffmann napsal(a): > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 08:07:06AM -0800, Davide Cavalca wrote: > > > On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > > mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is > > > > there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > > proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > > relevant groups. > > > The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server > > > and > > > Minimal variants. > > I think this is used by *all* server images. It offers to set the root > > password and add users, so without that you simply can't login ... > > > > take care, > >Gerd > > -- > > ___ > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam, report it: > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue > -- > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- Adam Williamson (he/him/his) Fedora QA Fedora Chat: @adamwill:fedora.im | Mastodon: @ad...@fosstodon.org https://www.happyassassin.net -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Tue, 2023-11-21 at 13:34 +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > Hello everyone, > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text mode > or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there > anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the proposed > alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any relevant > groups. In addition to the other uses identified: if you do a KDE install and set the root password but do not create a user account, i-s will run on first boot and allow (not sure if it requires) user creation. This is probably the case for other non-GNOME desktops too (GNOME uses its own gnome-initial-setup). openQA tests this: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/2280185#step/_graphical_wait_login/1 -- Adam Williamson (he/him/his) Fedora QA Fedora Chat: @adamwill:fedora.im | Mastodon: @ad...@fosstodon.org https://www.happyassassin.net -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
Hi, I wonder, I thought that the server images are usually using Anaconda to create a user during installation. Am I missing something? Best Regards, Jirka Dne 22. 11. 23 v 13:53 Gerd Hoffmann napsal(a): On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 08:07:06AM -0800, Davide Cavalca wrote: On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any relevant groups. The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server and Minimal variants. I think this is used by *all* server images. It offers to set the root password and add users, so without that you simply can't login ... take care, Gerd -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 01:53:14PM +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 08:07:06AM -0800, Davide Cavalca wrote: > > On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > > mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is > > > there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > > proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > > relevant groups. > > > > The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server and > > Minimal variants. > > I think this is used by *all* server images. It offers to set the root > password and add users, so without that you simply can't login ... systemd-firstboot can set the root user password, but it cannot create other users. But maybe we should extend it allow that. We recently had a discussion about adding support for creating "normal" users from systemd-sysusers, and the conclusion was that we can add a basic mode where /etc/skel is copied and the user is written to file databases. If people think this would be useful, I could that this idea upstream. Zbyszek -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 08:07:06AM -0800, Davide Cavalca wrote: > On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text > > mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is > > there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the > > proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any > > relevant groups. > > The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server and > Minimal variants. I think this is used by *all* server images. It offers to set the root password and add users, so without that you simply can't login ... take care, Gerd -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
Hi Simon, I guess I'm not able to answer this question well. I'm not part of the Gnome Initial Setup development. We should probably ask Gnome Initial Setup maintainers and other maintainers. Best Regards, Jirka Dne 21. 11. 23 v 13:48 Simon de Vlieger napsal(a): Hi Jiri, On Tue, Nov 21, 2023, at 1:34 PM, Jiri Konecny wrote: Hello everyone, * There are already alternatives: Gnome Initial Setup, systemd-firstboot, and preparation for KDE solution of initial setup. So the ecosystem changed from the time when Initial Setup was introduced. How about functionality loss for spins and editions that do not run a desktop environment which provides its own initial setup? Are any of the things (currently) being done by Anaconda Initial Setup unsupported by Gnome Initial Setup or its counterparts? Regards, Simon -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On 2023-11-21 04:34, Jiri Konecny wrote: Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any relevant groups. The Fedora Asahi Remix uses initial-setup (in text mode) for our Server and Minimal variants. Cheers Davide -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
All of the Arm disk images use initial-setup to configure the image. There would need to a concrete plan on how to manage the transition to something else. Dennis On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 6:35 AM Jiri Konecny wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > We (anaconda team) are considering discontinuation of the Anaconda's > Initial Setup[0] tool, which is not related to Gnome Initial Setup. Here > is a list of the reasons: > > * The relationship between the installer and the Initial Setup is very > fragile. It is easy to break the Initial Setup by changes in the > installer or break the installer while we are trying to fix the support > for the Initial Setup. The shared code is complex as a result and it > complicates development and maintenance of both projects. > > * As we had higher priority items to work on, the codebase is not in an > ideal state and the upstream repository doesn't even have a proper > automated CI. Fixing all these issues would take a lot of our resources > that we would like to spent on improving the installer instead. > > * The Initial Setup tool is unnecessarily complicated. Since it shares > code with the installer, it has to adapt to many limitations and > requirements of the installation environment. It doesn't use the full > potential of the installed system, because the installer can't. It > postpones all actions until the end of the configuration, because the > installer has to. It doesn't offer the best user experience for the > first boot configuration, because it is designed to reuse parts of an > installer. It drags Anaconda into the installed systems. > > * There are already alternatives: Gnome Initial Setup, > systemd-firstboot, and preparation for KDE solution of initial setup. So > the ecosystem changed from the time when Initial Setup was introduced. > We think that these alternatives are able to give you a better solution. > > > Before taking any action, we would like to understand your use-cases to > find out how we can help you to make the transition smoother and also to > find out how much time you would need for migration. > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text mode > or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there > anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the proposed > alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any relevant > groups. > > [0]: https://github.com/rhinstaller/initial-setup > > Best Regards, > Anaconda team > -- > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 01:34:43PM +0100, Jiri Konecny wrote: > Hello everyone, > > We (anaconda team) are considering discontinuation of the Anaconda's Initial > Setup[0] tool, which is not related to Gnome Initial Setup. Here is a list > of the reasons: > > * The relationship between the installer and the Initial Setup is very > fragile. It is easy to break the Initial Setup by changes in the installer > or break the installer while we are trying to fix the support for the > Initial Setup. The shared code is complex as a result and it complicates > development and maintenance of both projects. > > * As we had higher priority items to work on, the codebase is not in an > ideal state and the upstream repository doesn't even have a proper automated > CI. Fixing all these issues would take a lot of our resources that we would > like to spent on improving the installer instead. > > * The Initial Setup tool is unnecessarily complicated. Since it shares code > with the installer, it has to adapt to many limitations and requirements of > the installation environment. It doesn't use the full potential of the > installed system, because the installer can't. It postpones all actions > until the end of the configuration, because the installer has to. It doesn't > offer the best user experience for the first boot configuration, because it > is designed to reuse parts of an installer. It drags Anaconda into the > installed systems. > > * There are already alternatives: Gnome Initial Setup, systemd-firstboot, > and preparation for KDE solution of initial setup. So the ecosystem changed > from the time when Initial Setup was introduced. We think that these > alternatives are able to give you a better solution. > > > Before taking any action, we would like to understand your use-cases to find > out how we can help you to make the transition smoother and also to find out > how much time you would need for migration. > > Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What > functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text mode or > the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there anything > that would prevent you from migrating to one of the proposed alternatives? > Also please feel free to share this mail to any relevant groups. > > [0]: https://github.com/rhinstaller/initial-setup Hi, I can provide a bit of perspective from a downstream distribution of Fedora - Qubes OS. We use XFCE as the primary desktop environment, and as far as I'm aware, there is no equivalent of Gnome Initial Setup there. Furthermore, we have a Qubes-specific initial-setup addon that finishes installation steps that would be quite complicated to perform during anaconda stage. Those steps are basically starting a bunch of VMs, which requires a few system services running (including xenstored, libvirt daemon and few others) and it's very annoying and fragile to do that from inside chroot. So, we do have a use case for Initial Setup. -- Best Regards, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki Invisible Things Lab signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
Hi Jiri, On Tue, Nov 21, 2023, at 1:34 PM, Jiri Konecny wrote: > Hello everyone, > > * There are already alternatives: Gnome Initial Setup, > systemd-firstboot, and preparation for KDE solution of initial setup. So > the ecosystem changed from the time when Initial Setup was introduced. How about functionality loss for spins and editions that do not run a desktop environment which provides its own initial setup? Are any of the things (currently) being done by Anaconda Initial Setup unsupported by Gnome Initial Setup or its counterparts? Regards, Simon -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Possible deprecation/removal of Initial Setup from Fedora
Hello everyone, We (anaconda team) are considering discontinuation of the Anaconda's Initial Setup[0] tool, which is not related to Gnome Initial Setup. Here is a list of the reasons: * The relationship between the installer and the Initial Setup is very fragile. It is easy to break the Initial Setup by changes in the installer or break the installer while we are trying to fix the support for the Initial Setup. The shared code is complex as a result and it complicates development and maintenance of both projects. * As we had higher priority items to work on, the codebase is not in an ideal state and the upstream repository doesn't even have a proper automated CI. Fixing all these issues would take a lot of our resources that we would like to spent on improving the installer instead. * The Initial Setup tool is unnecessarily complicated. Since it shares code with the installer, it has to adapt to many limitations and requirements of the installation environment. It doesn't use the full potential of the installed system, because the installer can't. It postpones all actions until the end of the configuration, because the installer has to. It doesn't offer the best user experience for the first boot configuration, because it is designed to reuse parts of an installer. It drags Anaconda into the installed systems. * There are already alternatives: Gnome Initial Setup, systemd-firstboot, and preparation for KDE solution of initial setup. So the ecosystem changed from the time when Initial Setup was introduced. We think that these alternatives are able to give you a better solution. Before taking any action, we would like to understand your use-cases to find out how we can help you to make the transition smoother and also to find out how much time you would need for migration. Is Anaconda Initial Setup important for your project or workflow? What functionality is absolutely necessary for you? Do you use the text mode or the graphical mode? Are you aware of any alternatives? Is there anything that would prevent you from migrating to one of the proposed alternatives? Also please feel free to share this mail to any relevant groups. [0]: https://github.com/rhinstaller/initial-setup Best Regards, Anaconda team -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
