Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 07:40:07 +0100 Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote: On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 05:39:29PM -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: I really do not think we can integrate this into our release processes right now. What work would need to be done in order to make it possible to integrate this into the release process? I really don't know, as Matthias said this is targeted at f21 now is a good time to look at what we do need to do. we need to work out where the data will be put, we need to then work out how to get the data together and how to integrate it into the release processes. I'm wanting to make the release processes more lightweight. for instance today it takes us pretty much a whole work day to push updates assuming that nothing goes wrong, which it frequently does. I really do not have much time to spend on this likely until Fedora 20 goes out the door. I honestly think we are probably best off doing it in a manner like darkserver does and not by integrating it into the release processes. but instead pulling the builds in and extracting the metadata and providing it via a web based appstore. Dennis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.21 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI0ejEACgkQkSxm47BaWfewRQCfWnoH2SsdCt5DrEmhyuZlwXvz gNgAnjATdsO7WINn5AG/o3YIkkvbCHGw =WjRm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 05:39:29PM -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: I really do not think we can integrate this into our release processes right now. What work would need to be done in order to make it possible to integrate this into the release process? -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:39 AM, Dennis Gilmore den...@ausil.us wrote: Legal approved: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2013-September/002232.html So I am confused. In your request to legal you say Release Engineering asked for legal to okay it. However I dont remember ever asking you to get legal's okay. Who in releng asked you to? nirik did I really do not think we can integrate this into our release processes right now. Why? -- -Elad Alfassa. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Thu, 2013-09-12 at 17:39 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: So I am confused. In your request to legal you say Release Engineering asked for legal to okay it. However I dont remember ever asking you to get legal's okay. Who in releng asked you to? nirik I'm going to not continue this, because it's not actually my argument and I am not a lawyer. Please go talk to fedora-legal. I really do not think we can integrate this into our release processes right now. Thankfully, we're not asking for it for 'right now'. We want it for f21. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:28:09 -0400 Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com wrote: On Thu, 2013-09-12 at 17:39 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: So I am confused. In your request to legal you say Release Engineering asked for legal to okay it. However I dont remember ever asking you to get legal's okay. Who in releng asked you to? nirik I'm going to not continue this, because it's not actually my argument and I am not a lawyer. Please go talk to fedora-legal. Note that I was simply saying that this is the issue that the previous plan ran into. :) It doesn't mean thats the only issue to be overcome. I really do not think we can integrate this into our release processes right now. Thankfully, we're not asking for it for 'right now'. We want it for f21. Great. I still think it would be good to look at and come to a plan sooner rather than wait for f21. (If things could get done in rawhide when they are agreed on that would be good). kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Dennis Gilmore den...@ausil.us wrote: El Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:35:34 -0400 Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com escribió: On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:46 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: Any questions, either grab me on irc 'hughsie' or reply to this email. Be sure to read [1] as a lot of common questions are answered there. I have one question, if the data is shipped in the packages how is it supposed to get to the end user so that they can know about it and choose to install the application? We plan to extract it in the build system and provide it separate from the applications in the repository. that is very vague and handwavy, who is we? how exactly would it be provided to the user? https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5721 I guess that by we, Matthias means people who are interested in gnome-software. Right now I think this includes (at least) Richard, Matthias, and I. We have some scripts that extract the relevant metadata from packages. https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/ We want the metadata to live with the rest of the repository metadata. gnome-software or packagekit or any other relevant component would download it and cache it locally. Legal approved: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2013-September/002232.html Dennis -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- -Elad Alfassa. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El Thu, 12 Sep 2013 16:47:13 +0200 Elad Alfassa e...@fedoraproject.org escribió: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Dennis Gilmore den...@ausil.us wrote: El Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:35:34 -0400 Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com escribió: On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:46 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: Any questions, either grab me on irc 'hughsie' or reply to this email. Be sure to read [1] as a lot of common questions are answered there. I have one question, if the data is shipped in the packages how is it supposed to get to the end user so that they can know about it and choose to install the application? We plan to extract it in the build system and provide it separate from the applications in the repository. that is very vague and handwavy, who is we? how exactly would it be provided to the user? https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5721 I guess that by we, Matthias means people who are interested in gnome-software. Right now I think this includes (at least) Richard, Matthias, and I. We have some scripts that extract the relevant metadata from packages. https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/ We want the metadata to live with the rest of the repository metadata. gnome-software or packagekit or any other relevant component would download it and cache it locally. Legal approved: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2013-September/002232.html So I am confused. In your request to legal you say Release Engineering asked for legal to okay it. However I dont remember ever asking you to get legal's okay. Who in releng asked you to? I really do not think we can integrate this into our release processes right now. Dennis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.21 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlIyQqYACgkQkSxm47BaWfetoACeNy3lAAFdl1nlmlICmwZcQn+2 xrcAoL3+etmYfOGD1qN7TC5530pd0IVO =8t+m -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On 10 September 2013 17:58, Remi Collet fed...@famillecollet.com wrote: Just to confirm: this new file is only useful on fedora = 20 ? Yup. (so we need to not ship it in fedora 20, perhaps some Guildelines about this could be useful) Like Elad said, I think shipping it before that is fine. Which package own /usr/share/appdata ? At the moment it's gnome-software, which isn't exactly ideal. I'm erring towards adding it to filesystem, but other ideas welcome. P.S. new version 0.3RC of qelectrotech in rawhide have this file, added by upstream on my proposal. That's great, thanks. Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
Which package own /usr/share/appdata ? At the moment it's gnome-software, which isn't exactly ideal. I'm erring towards adding it to filesystem, but other ideas welcome. Yes filesystem seems definively the good choice (as other dir as /usr/share/applications, icons, ...). Remi. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On 11 September 2013 08:38, Remi Collet fed...@famillecollet.com wrote: Yes filesystem seems definively the good choice (as other dir as /usr/share/applications, icons, ...). Okay, I've added this to filesystem-3.2-20 this morning. Thanks for the reminder! :) Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 6 Sep 2013 10:33:42 +0100 Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm the developer for PackageKit and gnome-software, the latter being the new software center we're hopefully including as a technical preview in Fedora 20. snip Any questions, either grab me on irc 'hughsie' or reply to this email. Be sure to read [1] as a lot of common questions are answered there. I have one question, if the data is shipped in the packages how is it supposed to get to the end user so that they can know about it and choose to install the application? Dennis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.21 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlIwrHMACgkQkSxm47BaWfeUVQCgqL4XJrR5z3694HQjvSaXOM0P 228An112DvsSejBOJVwOjedMlbaet0DK =FIpA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:46 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: Any questions, either grab me on irc 'hughsie' or reply to this email. Be sure to read [1] as a lot of common questions are answered there. I have one question, if the data is shipped in the packages how is it supposed to get to the end user so that they can know about it and choose to install the application? We plan to extract it in the build system and provide it separate from the applications in the repository. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:35:34 -0400 Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com escribió: On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:46 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: Any questions, either grab me on irc 'hughsie' or reply to this email. Be sure to read [1] as a lot of common questions are answered there. I have one question, if the data is shipped in the packages how is it supposed to get to the end user so that they can know about it and choose to install the application? We plan to extract it in the build system and provide it separate from the applications in the repository. that is very vague and handwavy, who is we? how exactly would it be provided to the user? Dennis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.21 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlIwxHgACgkQkSxm47BaWfcXewCfYUXfH+XRdR1DibAW2v+SJNot ISoAnA8gXhbv7GAZbvHvQpzF9omPrfLN =x9NK -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
Le 09/09/2013 22:08, Elad Alfassa a écrit : If you have any specific questions (after reading both commit messages), we'll be happy to answer them. Yes, I have found how to add this file, thanks. I you really want this to succeeds and to be adopted by application upstream, we need to provides really simple documentation. (I'm tired to heard about some new fedora specific and complex request... even if this is not true, this is a common upstream feeling) And sorry, but this is not yet the case. (especially for ex. for a QT app which doesn't use gettext or autotool) Just to confirm: this new file is only useful on fedora = 20 ? (so we need to not ship it in fedora 20, perhaps some Guildelines about this could be useful) Which package own /usr/share/appdata ? Remi. P.S. new version 0.3RC of qelectrotech in rawhide have this file, added by upstream on my proposal. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Remi Collet fed...@famillecollet.comwrote: Le 09/09/2013 22:08, Elad Alfassa a écrit : If you have any specific questions (after reading both commit messages), we'll be happy to answer them. Yes, I have found how to add this file, thanks. I you really want this to succeeds and to be adopted by application upstream, we need to provides really simple documentation. (I'm tired to heard about some new fedora specific and complex request... even if this is not true, this is a common upstream feeling) I agree we should improve documentation. It's on my TODO list. And sorry, but this is not yet the case. (especially for ex. for a QT app which doesn't use gettext or autotool) I agree, but we can't write scripts for every single build system out there. It's not that hard to make an XML file translatable. Just to confirm: this new file is only useful on fedora = 20 ? (so we need to not ship it in fedora 20, perhaps some Guildelines about this could be useful) You don't have to ship appdata in fedora 20, but you can if you want. (nothing will use it, tho). I don't think we need any special guidelines here. Which package own /usr/share/appdata ? I'll leave this question for Richard to answer. Remi. P.S. new version 0.3RC of qelectrotech in rawhide have this file, added by upstream on my proposal. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- -Elad Alfassa. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
Le 09/09/2013 17:51, Florian Müllner a écrit : On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Remi Collet fed...@famillecollet.com wrote: Le 06/09/2013 11:33, Richard Hughes a écrit : [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ I don't see any localization information in those specifications... From the above link: Questions: [...] How do I translate this data? Sorry, but this need more explanation / sample / howto. As I understand, localization is not planned for 3.10. Sorry, but without translation, I just think this is a NO-GO for me. Remi. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Remi Collet fed...@famillecollet.com wrote: Le 06/09/2013 11:33, Richard Hughes a écrit : [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ I don't see any localization information in those specifications... From the above link: Questions: [...] How do I translate this data? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Remi Collet fed...@famillecollet.comwrote: Le 09/09/2013 17:51, Florian Müllner a écrit : On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Remi Collet fed...@famillecollet.com wrote: Le 06/09/2013 11:33, Richard Hughes a écrit : [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ I don't see any localization information in those specifications... From the above link: Questions: [...] How do I translate this data? Sorry, but this need more explanation / sample / howto. As I understand, localization is not planned for 3.10. Sorry, but without translation, I just think this is a NO-GO for me. Remi. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Hey Remi. 3.10 *will* support localization. Patches already landed. https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?id=5b5d58c4abde7229f39246ccf3e42bb04d68bd15 https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/commit/6683d10503a592ac02ec9cf9671c817b2077e82e If you have any specific questions (after reading both commit messages), we'll be happy to answer them. -- -Elad Alfassa. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 23:08 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote: 3.10 *will* support localization. Patches already landed. https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?id=5b5d58c4abde7229f39246ccf3e42bb04d68bd15 https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/commit/6683d10503a592ac02ec9cf9671c817b2077e82e If you have any specific questions (after reading both commit messages), we'll be happy to answer them. To expand on that, http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/files/2013/09/gnome-software-pt_br.png shows translated appdata for bijiben, and https://git.gnome.org/browse/bijiben/tree/data/bijiben.appdata.xml.in https://git.gnome.org/browse/bijiben/tree/data/Makefile.am https://git.gnome.org/browse/bijiben/tree/po/POTFILES.in shows how this is set up, using intltool for the extraction and merging of translations. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Daniel J Walsh dwa...@redhat.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/07/2013 06:14 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: On 7 September 2013 11:03, Daniel J Walsh dwa...@redhat.com wrote: Why not open bugzillas with the packages with .Desktop files to do this? Valid question, although that would be opening ~800 bugs and I'm not sure that's a terribly useful thing to do. If you think it would be useful, I can look at either doing this, or providing a list of packages to someone that's done this kind of thing before. Ideas welcome. Thanks. Richard. Ok, I did not know it was that many. My main reason for asking, is I am more likely to miss this email or even if I read it forget about it then I am on a bugzilla. Any way to scan sources to see which projects are already providing the file but just not being packaged? Richard -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 17:59 +0200, Remi Collet wrote: Sorry, but this need more explanation / sample / howto. As I understand, localization is not planned for 3.10. Sorry, but without translation, I just think this is a NO-GO for me. Remi. Translations are now supported, see http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2013/09/09/gnome-software-talking-your-language/ Maybe 5% of GNOME apps have internationalized their appdata; most are indeed shipping English-only for the time being in accordance with Richard's advice. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
Le 06/09/2013 11:33, Richard Hughes a écrit : [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ [2] https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/tree/master/appdata-extra I don't see any localization information in those specifications... Isn't this supposed to be a user-friendly feature ? Remi. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
Hi all, A progress update: lots of upstreams have already merged AppData files (50 and counting!) but we're still a long way from having all the default packages on the GNOME spin with AppData files. For some of the more important packages I've setup a google document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X4SBZM44ZIWM7s8_dgKw51aZfw0amp3fsqLVUPty5Gs/edit This is important for gnome software because even though the core modules are non-removable, they still show up in the update and detail view and it would be really good to match the mockups provided by Allan for Fedora 20 Beta. Once we've got some more contributions and the editing has settled down, I'll be pestering the upstream maintainers to ship the user-contributed extra data upstream for all distros to use. Feel free to add extra applications to the google document if your application is not listed there, or just create an AppData file yourself, commit it upstream and add a link on the document. Thanks again! Richard. On 6 September 2013 10:33, Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm the developer for PackageKit and gnome-software, the latter being the new software center we're hopefully including as a technical preview in Fedora 20. A few years ago distributions came together and created the AppStream specification which was designed to be common between all distributions and desktops. This data allowed us to describe applications that were not yet installed, and also map them to package names. The AppStream specification also allows us to include icons for applications. Ubuntu and SuSE both adopted the standard, but for many reasons Fedora didn't until now. With this data means we can create a software center that looks as good as the Chrome/Firefox store, but with all the existing applications we have available to us in Fedora. It means we can give people the software center they've been requesting for years. We're not taking away yum/dnf/gnome-packagekit or any of the existing tools that focus on packages, just adding a *new* application installer. At the moment, we use the information in the .desktop file to populate the AppStream data, but this is missing a few core things, for instance a long description, the upstream website for the application and any screenshots to show. All of the three being quite critical to assess an application before installing. To fix this I've created a tiny AppData specification [1] which is a subset of the AppStream specification. It's designed as a way to describe the application (not the package) so that data can be used in the AppStream data. At the moment, about 50 upstream projects are already shipping AppData files, and we've also got a few more which live in the fedora compose tools repo [2] for 'featured' applications we want to look complete for Fedora 20 launch. All the files in this repo have been submitted upstream, so hopefully the number of extra files in that repo should shrink to zero long term. So, well done if you've read this far already. What I am asking all you packagers for applications to do is: * Talk to the upstream maintainers, and try to convince them to write and ship an .appdata.xml file -- this is the best option as it can be translated in the future upstream, and the upstream maintainer can control things like what screenshots are shipped. It also means the data is shared with all the other distros. * If your upstream is on life-support, dead, or just not interested in shipping yet another file in the tarball you have two options. Either ship an AppData file in the package itself, e.g. as a Source2 and install it in /usr/share/appdata in the RPM. If you do a build for f20 and make sure it's in before the F20 Beta then I'll automatically be included in gnome-software. The other option is to submit a patch against fedora-appstream itself, although I'd much prefer it in the package as then you can make changes yourself if the project description/screenshot changes. In the context of AppStream, an application is a package that ships one or more .desktop files, that include Name,Comment and also Icon. A few applications are blacklisted if they are not included in the GUI menus or if they are settings panels. For now it's quite restrictive, but in the future we'll be considering other things as apps too, like Chrome Store Apps and GNOME Shell Extensions. Any questions, either grab me on irc 'hughsie' or reply to this email. Be sure to read [1] as a lot of common questions are answered there. Thanks in advance! Richard [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ [2] https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/tree/master/appdata-extra -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/07/2013 05:30 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: Hi all, A progress update: lots of upstreams have already merged AppData files (50 and counting!) but we're still a long way from having all the default packages on the GNOME spin with AppData files. For some of the more important packages I've setup a google document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X4SBZM44ZIWM7s8_dgKw51aZfw0amp3fsqLVUPty5Gs/edit This is important for gnome software because even though the core modules are non-removable, they still show up in the update and detail view and it would be really good to match the mockups provided by Allan for Fedora 20 Beta. Once we've got some more contributions and the editing has settled down, I'll be pestering the upstream maintainers to ship the user-contributed extra data upstream for all distros to use. Feel free to add extra applications to the google document if your application is not listed there, or just create an AppData file yourself, commit it upstream and add a link on the document. Thanks again! Richard. On 6 September 2013 10:33, Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm the developer for PackageKit and gnome-software, the latter being the new software center we're hopefully including as a technical preview in Fedora 20. A few years ago distributions came together and created the AppStream specification which was designed to be common between all distributions and desktops. This data allowed us to describe applications that were not yet installed, and also map them to package names. The AppStream specification also allows us to include icons for applications. Ubuntu and SuSE both adopted the standard, but for many reasons Fedora didn't until now. With this data means we can create a software center that looks as good as the Chrome/Firefox store, but with all the existing applications we have available to us in Fedora. It means we can give people the software center they've been requesting for years. We're not taking away yum/dnf/gnome-packagekit or any of the existing tools that focus on packages, just adding a *new* application installer. At the moment, we use the information in the .desktop file to populate the AppStream data, but this is missing a few core things, for instance a long description, the upstream website for the application and any screenshots to show. All of the three being quite critical to assess an application before installing. To fix this I've created a tiny AppData specification [1] which is a subset of the AppStream specification. It's designed as a way to describe the application (not the package) so that data can be used in the AppStream data. At the moment, about 50 upstream projects are already shipping AppData files, and we've also got a few more which live in the fedora compose tools repo [2] for 'featured' applications we want to look complete for Fedora 20 launch. All the files in this repo have been submitted upstream, so hopefully the number of extra files in that repo should shrink to zero long term. So, well done if you've read this far already. What I am asking all you packagers for applications to do is: * Talk to the upstream maintainers, and try to convince them to write and ship an .appdata.xml file -- this is the best option as it can be translated in the future upstream, and the upstream maintainer can control things like what screenshots are shipped. It also means the data is shared with all the other distros. * If your upstream is on life-support, dead, or just not interested in shipping yet another file in the tarball you have two options. Either ship an AppData file in the package itself, e.g. as a Source2 and install it in /usr/share/appdata in the RPM. If you do a build for f20 and make sure it's in before the F20 Beta then I'll automatically be included in gnome-software. The other option is to submit a patch against fedora-appstream itself, although I'd much prefer it in the package as then you can make changes yourself if the project description/screenshot changes. In the context of AppStream, an application is a package that ships one or more .desktop files, that include Name,Comment and also Icon. A few applications are blacklisted if they are not included in the GUI menus or if they are settings panels. For now it's quite restrictive, but in the future we'll be considering other things as apps too, like Chrome Store Apps and GNOME Shell Extensions. Any questions, either grab me on irc 'hughsie' or reply to this email. Be sure to read [1] as a lot of common questions are answered there. Thanks in advance! Richard [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ [2] https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/tree/master/appdata-extra Why not open bugzillas with the packages with .Desktop files to do this? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On 7 September 2013 11:03, Daniel J Walsh dwa...@redhat.com wrote: Why not open bugzillas with the packages with .Desktop files to do this? Valid question, although that would be opening ~800 bugs and I'm not sure that's a terribly useful thing to do. If you think it would be useful, I can look at either doing this, or providing a list of packages to someone that's done this kind of thing before. Ideas welcome. Thanks. Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/07/2013 06:14 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: On 7 September 2013 11:03, Daniel J Walsh dwa...@redhat.com wrote: Why not open bugzillas with the packages with .Desktop files to do this? Valid question, although that would be opening ~800 bugs and I'm not sure that's a terribly useful thing to do. If you think it would be useful, I can look at either doing this, or providing a list of packages to someone that's done this kind of thing before. Ideas welcome. Thanks. Richard. Ok, I did not know it was that many. My main reason for asking, is I am more likely to miss this email or even if I read it forget about it then I am on a bugzilla. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIrEXUACgkQrlYvE4MpobNd4ACcCQi1JCINUT11cNRXMRF8mH4f cPcAnAiCVSVcM1WDWS8pPZDiEMOfKLNG =6Fn8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
Hi all. I'm the developer for PackageKit and gnome-software, the latter being the new software center we're hopefully including as a technical preview in Fedora 20. A few years ago distributions came together and created the AppStream specification which was designed to be common between all distributions and desktops. This data allowed us to describe applications that were not yet installed, and also map them to package names. The AppStream specification also allows us to include icons for applications. Ubuntu and SuSE both adopted the standard, but for many reasons Fedora didn't until now. With this data means we can create a software center that looks as good as the Chrome/Firefox store, but with all the existing applications we have available to us in Fedora. It means we can give people the software center they've been requesting for years. We're not taking away yum/dnf/gnome-packagekit or any of the existing tools that focus on packages, just adding a *new* application installer. At the moment, we use the information in the .desktop file to populate the AppStream data, but this is missing a few core things, for instance a long description, the upstream website for the application and any screenshots to show. All of the three being quite critical to assess an application before installing. To fix this I've created a tiny AppData specification [1] which is a subset of the AppStream specification. It's designed as a way to describe the application (not the package) so that data can be used in the AppStream data. At the moment, about 50 upstream projects are already shipping AppData files, and we've also got a few more which live in the fedora compose tools repo [2] for 'featured' applications we want to look complete for Fedora 20 launch. All the files in this repo have been submitted upstream, so hopefully the number of extra files in that repo should shrink to zero long term. So, well done if you've read this far already. What I am asking all you packagers for applications to do is: * Talk to the upstream maintainers, and try to convince them to write and ship an .appdata.xml file -- this is the best option as it can be translated in the future upstream, and the upstream maintainer can control things like what screenshots are shipped. It also means the data is shared with all the other distros. * If your upstream is on life-support, dead, or just not interested in shipping yet another file in the tarball you have two options. Either ship an AppData file in the package itself, e.g. as a Source2 and install it in /usr/share/appdata in the RPM. If you do a build for f20 and make sure it's in before the F20 Beta then I'll automatically be included in gnome-software. The other option is to submit a patch against fedora-appstream itself, although I'd much prefer it in the package as then you can make changes yourself if the project description/screenshot changes. In the context of AppStream, an application is a package that ships one or more .desktop files, that include Name,Comment and also Icon. A few applications are blacklisted if they are not included in the GUI menus or if they are settings panels. For now it's quite restrictive, but in the future we'll be considering other things as apps too, like Chrome Store Apps and GNOME Shell Extensions. Any questions, either grab me on irc 'hughsie' or reply to this email. Be sure to read [1] as a lot of common questions are answered there. Thanks in advance! Richard [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ [2] https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/tree/master/appdata-extra -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm the developer for PackageKit and gnome-software, the latter being the new software center we're hopefully including as a technical preview in Fedora 20. [snip] Thanks in advance! Richard [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ [2] https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/tree/master/appdata-extra -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct To add on Richard's notes, please note that we will appreciate testing, suggestions, bug reports and general feedback. Few more things I think you should know: The metadata is DE-agnostic, which means that KDE (for example) could implement their own software center using the same metadata as well, so by adding appdata files you don't only help the GNOME spin of Fedora, but make it possible for other desktops to use the same data for their own application installers as well. gnome-software is still in an early preview phase, so more features will be added soon. (for example, an addons category to list fonts, codecs, and so forth). We already have someone working on support for firefox webapps, and I have few more ideas in mind. The pluggable architecture of gnome-software easily allows to add more types of software sources - it's not just a frontend for packagekit! We can easily add support for extensions from extensions.gnome.org, or perhaps listing fedorapeople repos under the (not-yet-implemented) addons category so people would be able to easily add them to their systems without needing to use the CLI. (I still need to run this idea past the designers for sanity-check). I'm also trying to get in touch with Valve to make Steam integrate itself into gnome-software (if installed). We have been waiting for a proper app installer for years, and now it finally happening. Exciting times ahead! We need all the help we can get to make this as awesome as possible, so please don't hesitate to contribute. If you have already installed Fedora 20, go ahead and type yum install gnome-software and give it a go! -- -Elad Alfassa. (elad661 on freenode, elad on gimpnet) -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
Hi Richard, On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm the developer for PackageKit and gnome-software, the latter being the new software center we're hopefully including as a technical preview in Fedora 20. [...] At the moment, we use the information in the .desktop file to populate the AppStream data, but this is missing a few core things, for instance a long description, the upstream website for the application and any screenshots to show. All of the three being quite critical to assess an application before installing. To fix this I've created a tiny AppData specification [1] which is a subset of the AppStream specification. It's designed as a way to describe the application (not the package) so that data can be used in the AppStream data. As a first step to create such a database, can you reuse metadata avalable on Ohloh? https://www.ohloh.net/p It seems they already have much of what you need. Bye, Andrea. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?
On 6 September 2013 11:16, Andrea Musuruane musur...@gmail.com wrote: As a first step to create such a database, can you reuse metadata avalable on Ohloh? That's a good idea, but I suspect that mining all the data is a breach of the acceptable use policy, and the licence of the data collected is very unclear. It's also got quite a few Ohloh specific descriptions, e.g. for Firefox: If you stack this project, you should also stack the Mozilla Core. As a style note, it's a technical description, and for AppData there are requirements on the kind of prose recommended, see http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/#description-format Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
