Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 03. 01. 19 v 15:28 Richard Shaw napsal(a):
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 2:11 PM Kevin Fenzi  > wrote:
>
> On 12/13/18 11:50 AM, Ken Dreyer wrote:
>
> > I would love to help bring back the birds-eye view dashboard that
> > pkgdb provided for things like "how many packages does X person
> > maintain",
>
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/user/ktdreyer
>
> You maintain 62 packages (or are co-maintainer, etc)
>
>
> Just checked mine and apparently I have 98 packages now but one thing
> to note, it only shows the first 6 and has a link for "View all X
> packages" but it doesn't do anything.


I can confirm this issue.

Nevertheless it seems that the "packages" on the left side probably
provides the intended functionality, judging by the same number
displayed on both places.


Vít


>
> Thanks,
> Richard
>
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Emmanuel Seyman]

* Richard Shaw [03/01/2019 08:28] :
>
> Just checked mine and apparently I have 98 packages now but one thing to
> note, it only shows the first 6 and has a link for "View all X packages"
> but it doesn't do anything.

I suspect that link should take you to
https://src.fedoraproject.org/user//projects
which does list all projects (albeit in a paginated format).

Emmanuel
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Richard Shaw]

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 2:11 PM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:

> On 12/13/18 11:50 AM, Ken Dreyer wrote:
>
> > I would love to help bring back the birds-eye view dashboard that
> > pkgdb provided for things like "how many packages does X person
> > maintain",
>
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/user/ktdreyer
>
> You maintain 62 packages (or are co-maintainer, etc)
>

Just checked mine and apparently I have 98 packages now but one thing to
note, it only shows the first 6 and has a link for "View all X packages"
but it doesn't do anything.

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 13. 12. 18 v 21:09 Kevin Fenzi napsal(a):
> On 12/13/18 11:50 AM, Ken Dreyer wrote:
>
>> I would love to help bring back the birds-eye view dashboard that
>> pkgdb provided for things like "how many packages does X person
>> maintain", 
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/user/ktdreyer
>
> You maintain 62 packages (or are co-maintainer, etc)


This does not says much. There is included tests namespace, there are
apparently listed packages which I probably just watch or group I am in
has commit bit.

For example this package:

https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/rubygem-acts-as-taggable-on

It was orphaned, but for some reason, I have watch on that package I
cannot really get rid of and there is still commit bit for
ruby-packagers-sig group. That doesn't make any sense.

Also, the latest design changes makes much harder to see who is actually
maintainer of the package etc.


Vít


>
> or "who is on the watch list for X component in Bugzilla".
>
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/api/0/rpms/ansible/watchers
>
> shows the users who are watching the 'ansible' package.
>
>> Maybe we could build that into the fedora-packages application ? I
>> know the Infra team doesn't need more new apps to run :)
> It could also be there and query pagure.
>
> kevin
>
>
>
>
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Kevin Fenzi]

On 12/13/18 11:50 AM, Ken Dreyer wrote:

> I would love to help bring back the birds-eye view dashboard that
> pkgdb provided for things like "how many packages does X person
> maintain", 

https://src.fedoraproject.org/user/ktdreyer

You maintain 62 packages (or are co-maintainer, etc)

>
or "who is on the watch list for X component in Bugzilla".

https://src.fedoraproject.org/api/0/rpms/ansible/watchers

shows the users who are watching the 'ansible' package.

> Maybe we could build that into the fedora-packages application ? I
> know the Infra team doesn't need more new apps to run :)

It could also be there and query pagure.

kevin





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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Ken Dreyer]

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 4:14 AM Nicolas Mailhot
 wrote:
> Not treating it as a community objective is how we got in a situation,
> where upstreams (including @rh upstreams) want nothing to do with rpms
> and Fedora, and invent their own packaging tech to bypass Linux
> distributions completely. They're not doing it for lofty theoretical
> reasons. Those are added later as PC justifications. The root cause of
> why they behave like this, is that they feel, the packager experience
> Fedora (or Debian, or Ubuntu) sucks loads. It used not to suck, when it
> matched perfectly c/c++ autotools needs, and then it slowly degraded as
> things were not updated to match new needs and packagers were asked to
> fill in the gaps.

The dynamic that you've described about upstreams matches my experience.

If we do have some kind of "packager experience" SIG, I would like to
be a part of it.

I would love to help bring back the birds-eye view dashboard that
pkgdb provided for things like "how many packages does X person
maintain", or "who is on the watch list for X component in Bugzilla".
Maybe we could build that into the fedora-packages application ? I
know the Infra team doesn't need more new apps to run :)

- Ken
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2018 at 06:15, Nicolas Mailhot
 wrote:
>
> Le 2018-12-12 18:49, Kevin Fenzi a écrit :
> > On 12/12/18 4:10 AM, Ben Rosser wrote:

> > then
> > finding out what it would take to solve each and helping create and
> > land
> > fixes for them, be that a pagure bugfix or a workflow change or
> > whatever.
>
> … but only if there is an effort at the Fedora level to act on this
> list. That's means infra time, and that means Fedora leadership time to
> make sure infra has this time and actually uses it to fix the issues
> packagers reported.
>

Having played this game also several times.. as soon as people aren't
still able to do what they were doing already we get variations of the
following:

"What do you mean we only have 4/5ths of the builders so you can work
out how to make the new system work at scale.. I don't care, move it
back"
"What do you mean that I have to do these new steps because it will
drop the amount of time rawhide or a release is broken. I don't give a
crap about rawhide or the releases. I want my package built now
because I have other things to do!"
"When I said I wanted less breakage I didn't meant my packages, I
meant those people using that  which
are always breaking things for my builds.

Those are the extremes which people remember, but all the little ones
about "why do builds take so long?" "does infra actually do anything?"
"ugh another packaging change, why are they making it so hard." adds
up also. Eventually people working things (or the leadership) gets
tired of 400 packagers grousing and says "that's enough.. just keep
doing what you were doing.. we will try this again later."

So we like many middle aged communities, end up in a state where we
have found a local minima of grumpiness. People dislike where we are,
but every change seems to make things worse enough that people just
want what they had more. We think that the reason no one wants to live
around us anymore is because 'the other people' cause so much noise,
without realizing that is our own constant low-level complaining about
everything which people are tired of.

This is going to take more than infrastructure to fix. This is going
to take more than our managers telling us to fix them. It is going to
take everyone to not just list the problems, but go over them, triage
them and come up with what level of pain they are willing to live with
while it is getting worked on.

> Been there, done that, not interested in filling new issues no one wants
> to work on or look at. Already doing too much of that lately.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Mailhot
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-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Kevin Fenzi]

On 12/13/18 3:14 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le 2018-12-12 18:49, Kevin Fenzi a écrit :
..snip...
> 
>> IMHO, it mostly needs people spending time and driving it. First,
>> gathering a list of issues that are non ideal for maintainers,
> 
> That's quite easy to do and you'll find no end of volunteers to document
> their packaging roadblocks. And they're not limited to the pagure behavior…

Thats not what I am asking for. A flood of untriaged issues is going to
hinder rather than help.

>> then
>> finding out what it would take to solve each and helping create and land
>> fixes for them, be that a pagure bugfix or a workflow change or whatever.
> 
> … but only if there is an effort at the Fedora level to act on this
> list. That's means infra time, and that means Fedora leadership time to
> make sure infra has this time and actually uses it to fix the issues
> packagers reported.
> 
> Been there, done that, not interested in filling new issues no one wants
> to work on or look at. Already doing too much of that lately.

What I was asking for was a prioritized list of triaged issues. This
would help greatly in fixing things that would have the most impact. If
we can't fix everything, lets at least fix the most painful things first.

kevin




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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Kevin Fenzi]

On 12/13/18 2:34 AM, Ben Rosser wrote:
...snip...
> Sure, I agree that this is what needs to be done. But I don't think it
> is going to happen on its own without some sort of organization to
> make it happen, and to try and organize/focus the work. I don't know
> if that organization requires an Objective to make happen, but I think
> it would be nice to enshrine this as one of our medium-term goals.

If an objective is what the folks organizing and doing this want, thats
fine with me.

kevin




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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le 2018-12-12 18:49, Kevin Fenzi a écrit :

On 12/12/18 4:10 AM, Ben Rosser wrote:
On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 4:07 PM Till Maas  
wrote:


Hi Ben,

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 11:42:51AM +0100, Ben Rosser wrote:

I don't know. I feel like we could do a lot to improve the 
experience

of packaging by investing time into fixing these sorts of minor
annoyances. (But here I am complaining on the devel list and not
actually doing anything to help, so I guess I'm part of the problem
too).


you are right. I am thinking this, too. Would you maybe be interested 
in

making this a Community Objective[0] such as "Packaging Contribution
Experience"?

Kind regards
Till

[0] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/objectives/


Hi Till,

Sure, I think it would be great to have packager quality of life as a
community objective! Should I start by writing something up and
sending an email to council-discuss?


I'm not sure this really deserves the level of community objective...
but perhaps I am wrong.


Not treating it as a community objective is how we got in a situation, 
where upstreams (including @rh upstreams) want nothing to do with rpms 
and Fedora, and invent their own packaging tech to bypass Linux 
distributions completely. They're not doing it for lofty theoretical 
reasons. Those are added later as PC justifications. The root cause of 
why they behave like this, is that they feel, the packager experience 
Fedora (or Debian, or Ubuntu) sucks loads. It used not to suck, when it 
matched perfectly c/c++ autotools needs, and then it slowly degraded as 
things were not updated to match new needs and packagers were asked to 
fill in the gaps.



IMHO, it mostly needs people spending time and driving it. First,
gathering a list of issues that are non ideal for maintainers,


That's quite easy to do and you'll find no end of volunteers to document 
their packaging roadblocks. And they're not limited to the pagure 
behavior…



then
finding out what it would take to solve each and helping create and 
land
fixes for them, be that a pagure bugfix or a workflow change or 
whatever.


… but only if there is an effort at the Fedora level to act on this 
list. That's means infra time, and that means Fedora leadership time to 
make sure infra has this time and actually uses it to fix the issues 
packagers reported.


Been there, done that, not interested in filling new issues no one wants 
to work on or look at. Already doing too much of that lately.


Regards,

--
Nicolas Mailhot
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Ben Rosser]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 6:50 PM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:
> I'm not sure this really deserves the level of community objective...
> but perhaps I am wrong.

So, here's why a community objective sounds like a good idea to me
(though other people should feel free to comment if they have
different ideas):

Firstly, I would hope that "making sure the experience of packaging
software in Fedora is a good one" is one of our goals, as a
distribution. (An "objective" with a lower case "o").

Two of our current objectives are "Modularity" and "Rethink the Fedora
lifecycle". I think it is very important that, as we move in the
direction of these sorts of big, sweeping changes, we also make sure
that the experience of packaging remains positive. I don't know what
is necessary to make sure that this happens. But I worry that it won't
happen on its own. I am worried because I feel like the experience
packaging *already* has gotten a bit worse since we retired pkgdb2,
and we haven't done anything to fix that yet.

So I would see the scope or mission statement of such a Community
Objective as follows:

1. To identify parts of the packager workflow that are difficult or
tedious, and to work with the maintainers of the relevant software
components to resolve these issues.
2. In the short term, to identify things that pkgdb2 used to do that
are now harder, or more difficult, for packagers to do today (and to
try and improve things).
3. In the long term, to ensure that the core packager experience
remains high as we continue to roll out Modularity and other future
changes to come.

Maybe what I've just written is the mission statement for a SIG or a
Working Group. But perhaps an Objective could lead to the creation of
such a group?

> IMHO, it mostly needs people spending time and driving it. First,
> gathering a list of issues that are non ideal for maintainers, then
> finding out what it would take to solve each and helping create and land
> fixes for them, be that a pagure bugfix or a workflow change or whatever.
>
> I'd love to help out, but just haven't had the time. If a group of folks
> could help by triaging and labeling things that might make it easier to
> know what needs work and where.

Sure, I agree that this is what needs to be done. But I don't think it
is going to happen on its own without some sort of organization to
make it happen, and to try and organize/focus the work. I don't know
if that organization requires an Objective to make happen, but I think
it would be nice to enshrine this as one of our medium-term goals.

Cheers,
Ben Rosser
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Kevin Fenzi]

On 12/12/18 4:10 AM, Ben Rosser wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 4:07 PM Till Maas  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 11:42:51AM +0100, Ben Rosser wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know. I feel like we could do a lot to improve the experience
>>> of packaging by investing time into fixing these sorts of minor
>>> annoyances. (But here I am complaining on the devel list and not
>>> actually doing anything to help, so I guess I'm part of the problem
>>> too).
>>
>> you are right. I am thinking this, too. Would you maybe be interested in
>> making this a Community Objective[0] such as "Packaging Contribution
>> Experience"?
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Till
>>
>> [0] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/objectives/
> 
> Hi Till,
> 
> Sure, I think it would be great to have packager quality of life as a
> community objective! Should I start by writing something up and
> sending an email to council-discuss?

I'm not sure this really deserves the level of community objective...
but perhaps I am wrong.

IMHO, it mostly needs people spending time and driving it. First,
gathering a list of issues that are non ideal for maintainers, then
finding out what it would take to solve each and helping create and land
fixes for them, be that a pagure bugfix or a workflow change or whatever.

I'd love to help out, but just haven't had the time. If a group of folks
could help by triaging and labeling things that might make it easier to
know what needs work and where.

kevin




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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Ben Rosser]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 4:07 PM Till Maas  wrote:
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 11:42:51AM +0100, Ben Rosser wrote:
>
> > I don't know. I feel like we could do a lot to improve the experience
> > of packaging by investing time into fixing these sorts of minor
> > annoyances. (But here I am complaining on the devel list and not
> > actually doing anything to help, so I guess I'm part of the problem
> > too).
>
> you are right. I am thinking this, too. Would you maybe be interested in
> making this a Community Objective[0] such as "Packaging Contribution
> Experience"?
>
> Kind regards
> Till
>
> [0] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/objectives/

Hi Till,

Sure, I think it would be great to have packager quality of life as a
community objective! Should I start by writing something up and
sending an email to council-discuss?

Thanks,
Ben Rosser
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Randy Barlow]

On Tue, 2018-12-11 at 16:06 +0100, Till Maas wrote:
> you are right. I am thinking this, too. Would you maybe be interested
> in
> making this a Community Objective[0] such as "Packaging Contribution
> Experience"?

I support this.


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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Randy Barlow]

On Tue, 2018-12-11 at 11:42 +0100, Ben Rosser wrote:
> I guess what bothers me here is that it's been a year since I filed
> my
> ticket against pagure, and nine months since you filed yours against
> fedpkg, and it seems like nothing has been done to fix this. I know
> it's only a minor annoyance, and I know there are more important
> things to be worked on, but... this isn't the only minor annoyance
> that's cropped up since we've moved away from pkgdb2 that still
> exists
> today.

I share some similar feelings. I wish the effort to make the changes
away from pkgdb hadn't stopped at a minimum viable product, but had
continued until it had full feature parity with the old system.


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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Till Maas]

Hi Ben,

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 11:42:51AM +0100, Ben Rosser wrote:

> I don't know. I feel like we could do a lot to improve the experience
> of packaging by investing time into fixing these sorts of minor
> annoyances. (But here I am complaining on the devel list and not
> actually doing anything to help, so I guess I'm part of the problem
> too).

you are right. I am thinking this, too. Would you maybe be interested in
making this a Community Objective[0] such as "Packaging Contribution
Experience"?

Kind regards
Till

[0] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/objectives/
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Ben Rosser]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:58 PM Randy Barlow
 wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2018-12-10 at 17:20 +0100, Pavel Raiskup wrote:
> > From time to time I have to submit a ticket with 'fedpkg request-
> > repo' or
> > 'fedpkg request-branch', and I have feeling that I have to regenerate
> > the API
> > key very often (since 2018-02-17 I have 5th key already?!).
>
> I proposed that fedpkg could manage the API token here:
>
> https://pagure.io/fedpkg/issue/192

This would definitely be a huge improvement over the current situation too.

I guess what bothers me here is that it's been a year since I filed my
ticket against pagure, and nine months since you filed yours against
fedpkg, and it seems like nothing has been done to fix this. I know
it's only a minor annoyance, and I know there are more important
things to be worked on, but... this isn't the only minor annoyance
that's cropped up since we've moved away from pkgdb2 that still exists
today.

I don't know. I feel like we could do a lot to improve the experience
of packaging by investing time into fixing these sorts of minor
annoyances. (But here I am complaining on the devel list and not
actually doing anything to help, so I guess I'm part of the problem
too).

Ben Rosser
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 05:56:00PM +0100, Ben Rosser wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:22 PM Pavel Raiskup  wrote:
> > Is this necessary requirement for 'fedpkg' to work if when we have
> > gssapi support in Fedora?
> 
> This is something that's been annoying me too. It would be a huge
> packager quality of life improvement (IMO) if we didn't have to
> request pagure keys and could instead authenticate using
> GSSAPI/Kerberos for all interactions with Fedora infrastructure.

And if krb5 keys lasted longer than 8 hours or whatever short timeout
it is.  30 days would be a good starting point.

Rich.

> Sadly, Pagure does not support GSSAPI authentication.
> 
> I actually suggested this some time ago, when the migration from
> pkgdb2 first happened-- I don't *think* there was an opposition to the
> idea, there just wasn't enough time or person-power to do it:
> https://pagure.io/pagure/issue/2549
> 
> Ben Rosser
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Randy Barlow]

On Mon, 2018-12-10 at 17:20 +0100, Pavel Raiskup wrote:
> From time to time I have to submit a ticket with 'fedpkg request-
> repo' or
> 'fedpkg request-branch', and I have feeling that I have to regenerate
> the API
> key very often (since 2018-02-17 I have 5th key already?!).

I proposed that fedpkg could manage the API token here:

https://pagure.io/fedpkg/issue/192


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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Ben Rosser]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:22 PM Pavel Raiskup  wrote:
> Is this necessary requirement for 'fedpkg' to work if when we have
> gssapi support in Fedora?

This is something that's been annoying me too. It would be a huge
packager quality of life improvement (IMO) if we didn't have to
request pagure keys and could instead authenticate using
GSSAPI/Kerberos for all interactions with Fedora infrastructure.

Sadly, Pagure does not support GSSAPI authentication.

I actually suggested this some time ago, when the migration from
pkgdb2 first happened-- I don't *think* there was an opposition to the
idea, there just wasn't enough time or person-power to do it:
https://pagure.io/pagure/issue/2549

Ben Rosser
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Re: How to avoid re-generating Pagure API keys all the time?

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2018-12-10 at 17:20 +0100, Pavel Raiskup wrote:
> From time to time I have to submit a ticket with 'fedpkg request-repo' or
> 'fedpkg request-branch', and I have feeling that I have to regenerate the API
> key very often (since 2018-02-17 I have 5th key already?!).
> 
> How do you work-around this requirement to re-generate the key all the
> time?  Is this necessary requirement for 'fedpkg' to work if when we have
> gssapi support in Fedora?

As in, do 'kinit prais...@fedoraproject.org' or so?

Yeah, it's been like that for several months for me. At one point it
was not. I believe the ticket is meant to last for 24 hours but be
auto-renewable for up to 7 days; at some point, for me, auto-renew was
happening, for the last while it is not.

I have never had time to look into this more deeply, though, so I never
filed any bugs. I'm not sure if it depends on GNOME keyring
integration, or if the fact that my systems are *also* members of my
personal FreeIPA domain is related.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
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http://www.happyassassin.net
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