Re: yum appmarket
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 2:15 PM, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Florian has already been working that out. He's got a pure-python script that grabs up the icons and we'll work on implementing them at the pkgdb layer. Hmm, you're saying the client code would talk to pkgdb? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 16:47 -0400, Colin Walters wrote: On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 2:15 PM, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Florian has already been working that out. He's got a pure-python script that grabs up the icons and we'll work on implementing them at the pkgdb layer. Hmm, you're saying the client code would talk to pkgdb? not likely - we get the data into the pkgdb and out via the metadata. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Thursday, August 19, 2010 05:46 pm, seth vidal wrote I mentioned this on: http://skvidal.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/fedora-app-market-proof-of-concept/ last night but I thought I'd bring it up here: Yesterday someone was talking about installing apps in fedora and how it was hard to figure out what to install/try b/c there were too much STUFF in fedora. They suggested an ‘app store’ like functionality. I explained that all the resources to do something like that exist in the infrastructure yum and friends offer now. I decided to prove that concept a bit. The concept of an ‘app’ is pretty amorphous but I decided to just use what Colin Walters said was his definition of an ‘app’ – which is any pkg containing a .desktop file. So I just whipped up a simple tool to dump out an xml-file of a format yum is already familiar with based on that criteria: http://skvidal.fedorapeople.org/misc/appfinder.py Running that generates an xml file with only the ‘apps’ defined. Great. Then I wrote a yum plugin to access and use this data. and I stuck it in this repo 1. copy this file into /etc/yum.repos.d/ 2. run: yum install yum-plugin-appmarket Now yum will have a few new commands available to it: app-installInstall an App app-list List Apps app-remove Remove an App app-search Search for an App Some examples: yum app-search yum won’t turn up ‘yum’ but it will turn up ‘yumex’. Fancy, huh? Now, the concept of an app can be refined in many ways but this is just to prove that the infrastructure has been available. -sv This is very nice idea. I'm interested in cooperation if you are going to develop this concept futher. I work on application database part of Fedora PkgDB and think it could be most effective to use it as data source. The app finding algoritihm is not perfect yet but I am working on improvements. I also believe that when application db gets more mature more fedora users will provide their input. Then we would be able to take the user experience into account and app search would be even more interesting. Martin -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On 19 August 2010 16:46, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Yesterday someone was talking about installing apps in fedora and how it was hard to figure out what to install/try b/c there were too much STUFF in fedora. They suggested an ‘app store’ like functionality. I explained that all the resources to do something like that exist in the infrastructure yum and friends offer now. I decided to prove that concept a bit. http://skvidal.fedorapeople.org/misc/appfinder.py Running that generates an xml file with only the ‘apps’ defined. Great. Then I wrote a yum plugin to access and use this data. I'm kinda disappointing you didn't use (or extend) http://github.com/hughsie/app-install as it's what suse and ubuntu already use, and I had planned to use in Fedora. I've looked at the xml metadata in your repo, and it seems to provide very little in the way of the data we actually need in GUI tools, e.g. translations, and icons names. The app-install metadata is a gzipped sqlite and icons file, which is super quick to query compared to parsing and building the xml tree. Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 14:06 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote: On 19 August 2010 16:46, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Yesterday someone was talking about installing apps in fedora and how it was hard to figure out what to install/try b/c there were too much STUFF in fedora. They suggested an ‘app store’ like functionality. I explained that all the resources to do something like that exist in the infrastructure yum and friends offer now. I decided to prove that concept a bit. http://skvidal.fedorapeople.org/misc/appfinder.py Running that generates an xml file with only the ‘apps’ defined. Great. Then I wrote a yum plugin to access and use this data. I'm kinda disappointing you didn't use (or extend) http://github.com/hughsie/app-install as it's what suse and ubuntu already use, and I had planned to use in Fedora. I've looked at the xml metadata in your repo, and it seems to provide very little in the way of the data we actually need in GUI tools, e.g. translations, and icons names. The app-install metadata is a gzipped sqlite and icons file, which is super quick to query compared to parsing and building the xml tree. The xml that appfinder generated was just a comps format file and it was just for a proof of concept. I realized after this that I don't even need it the pkgTags db that we already generate has the information needed b/c all the apps are tagged with 'Application'. So no separate program is needed to generate the app metadata at all. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On 29 August 2010 15:07, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote: I realized after this that I don't even need it the pkgTags db that we already generate has the information needed b/c all the apps are tagged with 'Application'. So no separate program is needed to generate the app metadata at all. What about application icons? Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 15:26 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote: On 29 August 2010 15:07, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote: I realized after this that I don't even need it the pkgTags db that we already generate has the information needed b/c all the apps are tagged with 'Application'. So no separate program is needed to generate the app metadata at all. What about application icons? Florian has already been working that out. He's got a pure-python script that grabs up the icons and we'll work on implementing them at the pkgdb layer. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Saturday, August 21, 2010 02:25:08 am Jeff Spaleta wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: That would likely be a bad idea. Mandriva did something similar a few years back, before I left, and it was pretty unpopular and often confusing for users. I lost count of the number of times I explained how to change the default filter back to 'all packages'... Perhaps...there's a reason to have two complete different UIs instead of having a UI be configured for either/or. Give me the equivalent of a Newark Electronics snailmail parts catalogue as a developer/contributor. And give end-users something that makes sense for them to find applications...and make them very obviously different things. +1 -jef -- Jaroslav Řezník jrez...@redhat.com Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 602 797 774 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
Roberto Ragusa wrote: Some more tags for functionally comparable to and the name of some well known programs for Windows or Macintosh would let people cope with the original names of Linux apps. Nero - k3b, xcdroast Adobe Illustrator - inkscape Adobe Reader - evince, kpdf, okular I think that would not fly for trademark reasons. I know there are sites which do that kind of mapping and that some upstream projects advertise their program as comparable with (popular proprietary program XYZ), but they're treading on a very fine line legally. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
Kevin Kofler wrote: Roberto Ragusa wrote: Some more tags for functionally comparable to and the name of some well known programs for Windows or Macintosh would let people cope with the original names of Linux apps. Nero - k3b, xcdroast Adobe Illustrator - inkscape Adobe Reader - evince, kpdf, okular I think that would not fly for trademark reasons. I know there are sites which do that kind of mapping and that some upstream projects advertise their program as comparable with (popular proprietary program XYZ), but they're treading on a very fine line legally. Isn't legally enough to just clarify that you are not XYZ? Maybe an additional Photoshop is trademarked by Adobe line has to be present. Laws are certainly stupid sometimes, but AFAIK the purpose of a trademark is just to guarantee the customer about the originality of what is buying. If I say this is GIMP, a program similar to Photoshop, there is no reasonable possible confusion. I know that in the USA generic drugs are marked as XXX acid, equivalent to Pfizer YYY commercial product, but on the other hand I know that CentOS was asked by Red Hat to remove any Red Hat string from their site... so maybe it could be as problematic as you are saying. -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 08:12 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: Roberto Ragusa wrote: Some more tags for functionally comparable to and the name of some well known programs for Windows or Macintosh would let people cope with the original names of Linux apps. Nero - k3b, xcdroast Adobe Illustrator - inkscape Adobe Reader - evince, kpdf, okular I think that would not fly for trademark reasons. I know there are sites which do that kind of mapping and that some upstream projects advertise their program as comparable with (popular proprietary program XYZ), but they're treading on a very fine line legally. I don't know where the law stands, but the current packaging guidelines prohibit this kind of comparison in package summaries: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Guidelines#Trademarks_in_Summary_or_Description BAD: It is similar to Adobe Photoshop. -- Matt -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
seth vidal wrote: I was just noodling around in the pkgtags db that I just posted about and noticed that the a lot of pkgs have the 'Application' tag applied to them. I could modify the appmarket plugin to use this information if it is available. Coupling that data with tags like 'XFCE' it would be trivial to list just xfce applications, for example. The database at https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/apps/search/tanks would be more useful if you could search for photoshop and get gimp, krita. Some more tags for functionally comparable to and the name of some well known programs for Windows or Macintosh would let people cope with the original names of Linux apps. Nero - k3b, xcdroast Adobe Illustrator - inkscape Adobe Reader - evince, kpdf, okular This tags could also be added by the users, in a wiki like form. It is easy to build a good amount of useful information with a good specialized wiki, for example: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
Le jeudi 19 août 2010 à 18:03 -0400, seth vidal a écrit : On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 23:46 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: 3. you want a preview of the fonts - then we need that data somewhere - is it in each font pkg? It would be (generating a svg or png with some font shapes at package build time does not seem overly complex) if people told us where the result should be put in the rpm. -- Nicolas Mailhot -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 22:55 +0200, drago01 wrote: This is definitely a step in the right direction. PK should follow that and only display apps by default in the GUI. That would likely be a bad idea. Mandriva did something similar a few years back, before I left, and it was pretty unpopular and often confusing for users. I lost count of the number of times I explained how to change the default filter back to 'all packages'... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: That would likely be a bad idea. Mandriva did something similar a few years back, before I left, and it was pretty unpopular and often confusing for users. I lost count of the number of times I explained how to change the default filter back to 'all packages'... Perhaps...there's a reason to have two complete different UIs instead of having a UI be configured for either/or. Give me the equivalent of a Newark Electronics snailmail parts catalogue as a developer/contributor. And give end-users something that makes sense for them to find applications...and make them very obviously different things. -jef -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 16:25 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: That would likely be a bad idea. Mandriva did something similar a few years back, before I left, and it was pretty unpopular and often confusing for users. I lost count of the number of times I explained how to change the default filter back to 'all packages'... Perhaps...there's a reason to have two complete different UIs instead of having a UI be configured for either/or. Give me the equivalent of a Newark Electronics snailmail parts catalogue as a developer/contributor. And give end-users something that makes sense for them to find applications...and make them very obviously different things. yes, that may be the best approach. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On 08/19/2010 05:46 PM, seth vidal wrote: ... Now, the concept of an app can be refined in many ways but this is just to prove that the infrastructure has been available. What's missing is the ability to rate an app and comment on it because that's really what deals with the there is too much STUFF in fedora bit. Parsing of the metadata isn't strictly necessary as you could simply let the packagers declare their packages as apps. Beeing able to do this automatically is a nice bonus though. Regards, Dennis -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 18:30 +0200, Dennis J. wrote: On 08/19/2010 05:46 PM, seth vidal wrote: ... Now, the concept of an app can be refined in many ways but this is just to prove that the infrastructure has been available. What's missing is the ability to rate an app and comment on it because that's really what deals with the there is too much STUFF in fedora bit. Agreed. Parsing of the metadata isn't strictly necessary as you could simply let the packagers declare their packages as apps. Beeing able to do this automatically is a nice bonus though. Even less so after a patch to rpmbuild gets in. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:42:18PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 18:30 +0200, Dennis J. wrote: On 08/19/2010 05:46 PM, seth vidal wrote: ... Now, the concept of an app can be refined in many ways but this is just to prove that the infrastructure has been available. What's missing is the ability to rate an app and comment on it because that's really what deals with the there is too much STUFF in fedora bit. Agreed. There is a web app store in PackageDB, which seems to have all of this: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/ Regards Till pgpeKYQheVhzy.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 18:59 +0200, Till Maas wrote: On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:42:18PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 18:30 +0200, Dennis J. wrote: On 08/19/2010 05:46 PM, seth vidal wrote: ... Now, the concept of an app can be refined in many ways but this is just to prove that the infrastructure has been available. What's missing is the ability to rate an app and comment on it because that's really what deals with the there is too much STUFF in fedora bit. Agreed. There is a web app store in PackageDB, which seems to have all of this: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/ yes, I know. And you'll notice that the pkgdb can generate a sqlite db of tags and ranking info that yum can use if the info is in the repodata. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 11:46 -0400, seth vidal wrote: I mentioned this on: http://skvidal.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/fedora-app-market-proof-of-concept/ Nice. This is cool. Perhaps one of the TG folks here can also whip out a prototype web page view of apps, with a logo having a screenshot a la app stores for phones, etc. Then you'd have a by-type browseable list of apps with logos and could use the yum app bits to install them. Jon. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 13:06 -0400, seth vidal wrote: There is a web app store in PackageDB, which seems to have all of this: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/ yes, I know. And you'll notice that the pkgdb can generate a sqlite db of tags and ranking info that yum can use if the info is in the repodata. I didn't realize it was already pretty fancy since I last really looked. Wouldn't take much effort to do browseable per-type productivity, etc. Jon. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 22:55 +0200, drago01 wrote: Thanks for working on this, the concept of packages should be an implementation detail that much (desktop) users shouldn't have to care about. This is definitely a step in the right direction. PK should follow that and only display apps by default in the GUI. I was just noodling around in the pkgtags db that I just posted about and noticed that the a lot of pkgs have the 'Application' tag applied to them. I could modify the appmarket plugin to use this information if it is available. Coupling that data with tags like 'XFCE' it would be trivial to list just xfce applications, for example. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
Le jeudi 19 août 2010 à 22:55 +0200, drago01 a écrit : This is definitely a step in the right direction. PK should follow that and only display apps by default in the GUI. This is a very naïve position. For example, even in a pure gui system, people want to select fonts (with previews), and fonts are not apps by any definition. ”It has a .desktop file” barely scratches user needs. -- Nicolas Mailhot -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: yum appmarket
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 23:46 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Le jeudi 19 août 2010 à 22:55 +0200, drago01 a écrit : This is definitely a step in the right direction. PK should follow that and only display apps by default in the GUI. This is a very naïve position. For example, even in a pure gui system, people want to select fonts (with previews), and fonts are not apps by any definition. 1. I don't see any reason why we cannot mark fonts and provide a search specifically for them. 2. he said it was 'a step' in the right direction which it is. 3. you want a preview of the fonts - then we need that data somewhere - is it in each font pkg? ”It has a .desktop file” barely scratches user needs. agreed - which is why we're going further. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
