Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
On 30 June 2020 11:10:03 CEST, Hans de Goede wrote: >With livecd installs the livecd rootfs simply gets rsync-ed over, so >anything which is in the livecd will also end up on the real system. > >There is a post-install configuration phase, so I guess we could >disable things which are only brought in when necessary with netboot >installs in the livecd post-install configuration phase instead of >dropping them from the livecd. > >That same solution would also work for dmraid, so that would be a more >generic solution in general and as such might be better. What do >others think? This sounds like a very reasonable way to do it since the time when diskspace was scarce is long gone. Disabling instead of removing will have the desired effect on boot times while not affecting those that actually need the functionality. I think this would be a good way to go. > >Regards, > >Hans >___ >devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org >Fedora Code of Conduct: >https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >List Archives: >https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
Hi John, On 6/30/20 12:58 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:04:48 PM MST Ben Cotton wrote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkst ationLiveCD == Summary == The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora variant getfedora.org advices people to download. As such most Fedora workstation installs will be done from the livecd. This means that any package which is part of the livecd will be part of the default install for most users. device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service, which waits for all device-detection to be done + some extra waiting just to be sure. This significantly slows down booting on various systems. Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a better fit for such installations. == Owner == * Name: [[User:jwrdegoede| Hans de Goede]] * Email: hdego...@redhat.com == Detailed Description == device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service. The other package is dmraid see [[Changes/DisableDmraidOnFirstRun|Disable dmraid.service on first run]]. Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a better fit for such installations. Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. Can you give use-case scenarios where multipath would be used and the workstation livecd would be the preferred installation media (prefered over say the server netboot iso) ? A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when configured, and leave it out otherwise.. As mentioned in the Change page anaconda already keeps track of whether it needs device-mapper-multipath and will bring it in when anaconda is in control over which packages to install. But that only happens with netboot installations. With livecd installs the livecd rootfs simply gets rsync-ed over, so anything which is in the livecd will also end up on the real system. There is a post-install configuration phase, so I guess we could disable things which are only brought in when necessary with netboot installs in the livecd post-install configuration phase instead of dropping them from the livecd. That same solution would also work for dmraid, so that would be a more generic solution in general and as such might be better. What do others think? Regards, Hans ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
On 6/29/20 4:13 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: On Monday, June 29, 2020 4:03:06 PM MST Neal Gompa wrote: Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when configured, and leave it out otherwise.. Anaconda live install architecture does not support post-installation package installs based on user requests or configuration selected at install time. So this would not be possible. Would it be possible to write a plugin to support that, or does Anaconda live install just install every package the live image has? If that wouldn't be trivial, it may be best to just disable it if it's unused, which would leave the functionality for those who use it, without affecting the boot times of those who don't use it. My understanding is that the live install basically copies the live install image onto the hard drive as is and then makes a few configuration tweaks. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
On Monday, June 29, 2020 4:03:06 PM MST Neal Gompa wrote: > > Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. > > A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when > > configured, and leave it out otherwise.. > > > Anaconda live install architecture does not support post-installation > package installs based on user requests or configuration selected at > install time. So this would not be possible. Would it be possible to write a plugin to support that, or does Anaconda live install just install every package the live image has? If that wouldn't be trivial, it may be best to just disable it if it's unused, which would leave the functionality for those who use it, without affecting the boot times of those who don't use it. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:00 PM John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:04:48 PM MST Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkst > > ationLiveCD > > > > == Summary == > > The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora variant getfedora.org > > advices people to download. > > As such most Fedora workstation installs will be done from the livecd. This > > means that any package which is part of the livecd will be part of the > > default install for most users. > > > > device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install > > which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service, which > > waits for all device-detection to be done + some extra waiting just to be > > sure. This significantly slows down booting on various systems. > > > > Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or > > other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the > > livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need > > this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and > > this is a better fit for such installations. > > > > == Owner == > > * Name: [[User:jwrdegoede| Hans de Goede]] > > * Email: hdego...@redhat.com > > > > == Detailed Description == > > > > device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install > > which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service. The > > other package is dmraid see [[Changes/DisableDmraidOnFirstRun|Disable > > dmraid.service on first run]]. > > > > Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or > > other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the > > livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need > > this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and > > this is a better fit for such installations. > > Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. A > better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when configured, and > leave it out otherwise.. Anaconda live install architecture does not support post-installation package installs based on user requests or configuration selected at install time. So this would not be possible. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:04:48 PM MST Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkst > ationLiveCD > > == Summary == > The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora variant getfedora.org > advices people to download. > As such most Fedora workstation installs will be done from the livecd. This > means that any package which is part of the livecd will be part of the > default install for most users. > > device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install > which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service, which > waits for all device-detection to be done + some extra waiting just to be > sure. This significantly slows down booting on various systems. > > Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or > other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the > livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need > this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and > this is a better fit for such installations. > > == Owner == > * Name: [[User:jwrdegoede| Hans de Goede]] > * Email: hdego...@redhat.com > > == Detailed Description == > > device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install > which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service. The > other package is dmraid see [[Changes/DisableDmraidOnFirstRun|Disable > dmraid.service on first run]]. > > Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or > other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the > livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need > this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and > this is a better fit for such installations. Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when configured, and leave it out otherwise.. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 5:15 PM Hans de Goede wrote: > > Hi, > > On 6/29/20 10:29 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM Chris Murphy > > wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton wrote: > >>> > >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD > >>> > >>> Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or > >>> other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the > >>> livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need > >>> this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and > >>> this is a better fit for such installations. > >>> > >> > >> +1 to this one as well. Thanks for doing this! > >> > > > > +1 > > > > Can we remove this from all desktop variants? There's basically no > > reason for it to be installed on any desktop spin live media. > > That sounds reasonable. I can amend the change to > s/workstation/workstation and desktop live spins/ or some such. > That'd be fantastic, thanks! -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
Hi, On 6/29/20 10:29 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM Chris Murphy wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton wrote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a better fit for such installations. +1 to this one as well. Thanks for doing this! +1 Can we remove this from all desktop variants? There's basically no reason for it to be installed on any desktop spin live media. That sounds reasonable. I can amend the change to s/workstation/workstation and desktop live spins/ or some such. Regards, Hans ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM Chris Murphy wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton wrote: > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD > > > > Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or > > other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the > > livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need > > this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and > > this is a better fit for such installations. > > > > +1 to this one as well. Thanks for doing this! > +1 Can we remove this from all desktop variants? There's basically no reason for it to be installed on any desktop spin live media. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD > > Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or > other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd > is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need this > device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a > better fit for such installations. > +1 to this one as well. Thanks for doing this! -- Chris Murphy ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD == Summary == The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora variant getfedora.org advices people to download. As such most Fedora workstation installs will be done from the livecd. This means that any package which is part of the livecd will be part of the default install for most users. device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service, which waits for all device-detection to be done + some extra waiting just to be sure. This significantly slows down booting on various systems. Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a better fit for such installations. == Owner == * Name: [[User:jwrdegoede| Hans de Goede]] * Email: hdego...@redhat.com == Detailed Description == device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service. The other package is dmraid see [[Changes/DisableDmraidOnFirstRun|Disable dmraid.service on first run]]. Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a better fit for such installations. Note then when installing from the server or everything netboot isos, device-mapper-multipath depending on the obsolete udev-settle service is not a problem, because then it will not be installed at all. Anaconda (the installer) adds storage related packages such as device-mapper-multipath to the installation package-set as necessary for the storage found at installation time. So any installs done through the netinst isos already will not have device-mapper-multipath installed. == Feedback == == Benefit to Fedora == systemd-udev-settle.service causes a significant and sometimes quite long delay during boot. Removing / disabling the last 2 services depending on this long obsolete helper service will remove the unnecessary boot delay. == Scope == * Proposal owners: ** Change the livecd packagelist (comps) to no longer include the device-mapper-multipath package * Other developers: ** No action is required by other developers ** Except if another package still brings in device-mapper-multipath through dependencies, then this needs to be solved / coordinated with that other packages maintainers * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9560 #9560] (a check of an impact with Release Engineering is needed) * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) == Upgrade/compatibility impact == This only affects new installs, upgrades of installs which have device-mapper-multipath installed will still have it installed after the upgrade. == How To Test == # Install F33 on a machine / VM # Do "rpm -q device-mapper-multipath", the output should be "device-mapper-multipath" is not installed == User Experience == Faster booting Fedora when installed from the livecd. == Dependencies == There are no other changes / package updates this Change depends on; or which this change impacts. == Contingency Plan == * Contingency mechanism: Re-add device-mapper-multipath to the livecd if the dropping of it causes problems. * Blocks release? No == Documentation == This change does not require any documentation. -- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis ___ devel-announce mailing list -- devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-announce-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org
Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD == Summary == The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora variant getfedora.org advices people to download. As such most Fedora workstation installs will be done from the livecd. This means that any package which is part of the livecd will be part of the default install for most users. device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service, which waits for all device-detection to be done + some extra waiting just to be sure. This significantly slows down booting on various systems. Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a better fit for such installations. == Owner == * Name: [[User:jwrdegoede| Hans de Goede]] * Email: hdego...@redhat.com == Detailed Description == device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service. The other package is dmraid see [[Changes/DisableDmraidOnFirstRun|Disable dmraid.service on first run]]. Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a better fit for such installations. Note then when installing from the server or everything netboot isos, device-mapper-multipath depending on the obsolete udev-settle service is not a problem, because then it will not be installed at all. Anaconda (the installer) adds storage related packages such as device-mapper-multipath to the installation package-set as necessary for the storage found at installation time. So any installs done through the netinst isos already will not have device-mapper-multipath installed. == Feedback == == Benefit to Fedora == systemd-udev-settle.service causes a significant and sometimes quite long delay during boot. Removing / disabling the last 2 services depending on this long obsolete helper service will remove the unnecessary boot delay. == Scope == * Proposal owners: ** Change the livecd packagelist (comps) to no longer include the device-mapper-multipath package * Other developers: ** No action is required by other developers ** Except if another package still brings in device-mapper-multipath through dependencies, then this needs to be solved / coordinated with that other packages maintainers * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/9560 #9560] (a check of an impact with Release Engineering is needed) * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) == Upgrade/compatibility impact == This only affects new installs, upgrades of installs which have device-mapper-multipath installed will still have it installed after the upgrade. == How To Test == # Install F33 on a machine / VM # Do "rpm -q device-mapper-multipath", the output should be "device-mapper-multipath" is not installed == User Experience == Faster booting Fedora when installed from the livecd. == Dependencies == There are no other changes / package updates this Change depends on; or which this change impacts. == Contingency Plan == * Contingency mechanism: Re-add device-mapper-multipath to the livecd if the dropping of it causes problems. * Blocks release? No == Documentation == This change does not require any documentation. -- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
