Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Mon, 2020-04-27 at 17:52 +0100, José Abílio Matos wrote: > At the same time I also liked to hear some of reasoning behind the reasons > for the > wallpaper. IMHO it is shame that at least a short abstract it is not > available here. https://pagure.io/design/issue/669 -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Friday, 17 April 2020 19.05.40 WEST Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote: > I really do not see how you could construct this reply from Michael's. > He clearly starts with IMO and the rest of is the expression of his opinion, > he never calls anyone anything. > > I'm confused here. > > Pierre I left this with no answer on purpose. I did not wanted to add further noise to this thread. I did not like the wallpaper initially but I do not subscribe to the title of the thread. FWIW I think that Michael's answer was thoughtful and interesting to read. By decomposing the reasons into the different layers I have associated the subject to deconstructionism. At the same time there was a clear divide in the different opinions (likes or dislikes) regarding the different backgrounds: some more abstract like the F32 while others take an approach based on realism/naturalism or even other that follow modernism. At the same time I also liked to hear some of reasoning behind the reasons for the wallpaper. IMHO it is shame that at least a short abstract it is not available here. On the other hand one of reasons the reactions were in two very different fields, there was one more involved that defended the decision to go with this wallpaper based on a series of rational arguments. In the other field there was a more instinctive reaction of dislike. That was the reason of my failed attempt to light the situation by referring to: """ Abstract art can also make people uneasy because they don't automatically know what the art is "about" just by a cursory glance. Or they assume that because it doesn't look like anything, then it is not "about" anything. """ https://www.art-is-fun.com/understanding-abstract-art[1] I seems that I failed to convey that in the previous message. It was my fault. :-) -- José Abílio [1] https://www.art-is-fun.com/understanding-abstract-art ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
That something ugly comes by default or bad integrated is not the end of the world, but is bad... I don't use things that come by default. Can we copy something minimal from the KDE Store? https://store.kde.org/s/KDE%20Store/browse/cat/299/order/latest/ ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 9:10 AM Benson Muite wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Leigh Scott wrote: > > > Hi Leigh, > > > > > > > > > Do you think you could please use nicer language? There's no need to > > > use words like that to describe other people's work in the community. > > > > That was the nicest term I could use to describe it! > > > > > > > > I personally quite like the 90s retro look. > > > > > Hi Leigh, > > Elections for alternative wallpapers are currently open: > https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/elections/ > Please vote for ones that you like. > > The submission phase for Fedora 32 has unfortunately already closed. > Please do make wallpaper submissions for Fedora 33 as well to ensure > there is a wide choice of excellent candidates. > I think it's important to point out here that while the available alternatives are great options, it does not change the desktop experience presented to users who first install Fedora of whatever flavor. The only thing that affects that is the choice of default for that spin, whether it can be improved by a user who wants to customize their experience is orthogonal. -Dan ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On 2020-04-19 22:26, Peter Oliver wrote: Well, I don't see how it makes sense to deliberately create a low-quality image with no technical need (nor technical benefits such as size saving). I'd suggest it's for roughly the same reason that people still paint paintings when, nowadays, they could just take a photograph. I don't pretend to know much about art, but that seems to be pretty intrinsic to how it works. The problem is when the artistic touch leads people to thinking their graphics drivers are defective. Showing to someone who has just installed a new system some color dithering from 1990 is not a good idea. Absolutely not for a default choice. (and this is also the kind of background that can really waste a lot of network traffic when doing screen sharing) Regards. -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
Le 20-04-17 à 09 h 09, Benson Muite a écrit : On Fri, Apr 17, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Leigh Scott wrote: Elections for alternative wallpapers are currently open: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/elections/ Please vote for ones that you like. Is the default wallpaper the result of a vote, or only alternatives to the default? ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
> Well, I don't see how it makes sense to deliberately create a low-quality > image with no technical need (nor technical benefits such as size saving). I'd suggest it's for roughly the same reason that people still paint paintings when, nowadays, they could just take a photograph. I don't pretend to know much about art, but that seems to be pretty intrinsic to how it works. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:13 AM Kevin Kofler wrote: > > after a few particularly unflattering ones had been selected: inside > jokes (and one that also happened to offend all Hindus, vegetarians, and > vegans at once), I happen to be offended by that slight of offense! /s Seriously, as a member of one of those groups (not saying which one!), I thought Beefy Miracle was an awesome name. Heck, the whole theme was made by a vegetarian (Will Woods)! -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 15:13 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: >> And to Michael's point about Ubuntu's branding, they have a set of >> design principles that they use to simultaneously present "Ubuntu" and >> the Ubuntu "release" by leveraging their codename scheme and imbuing >> it in the artwork in creative ways. That's not a thing we do in Fedora >> anymore... :( > > None of this is free, it needs people to show up and do the work. Just > as with coding or package management, there is very little value in > saying "boy, I sure wish someone else would do all this cool stuff I've > thought of". If you want it to happen, get together with like-minded > folks and do it... Well, this is not a manpower issue. It was a deliberate decision to remove the Fedora logo from the wallpaper, in order to make life easier for Remix distributions. It was also a deliberate decision to discontinue release names, after a few particularly unflattering ones had been selected: inside jokes (and one that also happened to offend all Hindus, vegetarians, and vegans at once), villains, even a reference to a certain kind of software bugs! These decisions (which were made for a reason, as you can see) are why the Fedora artists can no longer employ this pattern for their wallpapers, not any kind of lack of manpower. Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
Adam Williamson wrote: > for instance, the halftoning is a choice Well, I don't see how it makes sense to deliberately create a low-quality image with no technical need (nor technical benefits such as size saving). Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
Hello everyone! I specially love this one: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Sky-background3-c.png Shame it's so small. I don't feel like my screen is broken. While I'm not a big fan of squares and similar background, I did appreciate the retro style. I didn't assume there was something wrong but that it was intended. There's a different between crap/broken and artistic choice. Kind regards, Lailah On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 16:09, Kamil Paral wrote: > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 2:51 PM Leigh Scott > wrote: > >> If there any plan to fix them? >> >> >> https://leigh123linux.fedorapeople.org/pub/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202020-04-17%2013-32-22.png > > > When I updated, I honestly thought that my graphics drivers were broken. I > don't think that's a positive outcome. I think the previous version > (differently colored, without such heavy dithering) was better. This one > looks like a picture with jpeg quality 30. > > I'm disappointed with default wallpapers in the latest releases. I wonder > if we could go back to more artistic images from previous releases? Here > are some of my favorite ones: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_29 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_27 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_21 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_16 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_15 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_11 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_7 > > Especially the one in Fedora 15 (GNOME edition) and 16 was outstanding. > Can we do more of those, please? > > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
> > > Well then please don't express your opinion then and keep it to yourself. > > > > > > It's a free country with free speech. > > If you don't like it don't read it! > > Leigh's message wasn't targeted at any given individual, and to make this a > CoC issue is absurd. If anything, attacking Leigh like this is against the > Four Foundations, specifically the "Friends" portion. I'm not sure about your friends, but my friends don't call things I do "crap", if they find something I've done isn't to their taste they use better words to express their dismay. this isn't about a CoC issue it's just about being nice and providing constructive criticism and I'm sorry there is nothing in "looks like crap" that is constructive. Peter ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Saturday, April 18, 2020 2:00:27 AM MST Göran Uddeborg wrote: > Leigh Scott: > > > If there any plan to fix them? > > > Pick another if you don't like the default. It's a larger issue than that if the default wallpapers make people think they're having graphics issues.. -- John M. Harris, Jr. Splentity ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Friday, April 17, 2020 10:49:18 PM MST Leigh Scott wrote: > > Well then please don't express your opinion then and keep it to yourself. > > > It's a free country with free speech. > If you don't like it don't read it! Leigh's message wasn't targeted at any given individual, and to make this a CoC issue is absurd. If anything, attacking Leigh like this is against the Four Foundations, specifically the "Friends" portion. -- John M. Harris, Jr. Splentity ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
> My personal favorites were Fedora Core 5 and Fedora Core 6: > > FC5: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_Core_5 > FC6: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_Core_6 Ha, I never realised that wiki page existed, it brings back good memories :) Of the recent releases F-26 and F-29 were faves, I also like the ones that change during the day, I had forgotten about those :-) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
f32-backgrounds look like crap
Leigh Scott: > If there any plan to fix them? Pick another if you don't like the default. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On 18. 04. 20 7:49, Leigh Scott wrote: Well then please don't express your opinion then and keep it to yourself. It's a free country with free speech. Whatever country you are talking about, this is Fedora and not a country and in Fedora, we are nice to each other. Telling you not to express your opinion if you cannot do it in a decent way is not violating your free speech right. You are welcome to continue saying whatever you want, just not here. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On 18 April 2020 07:49:18 CEST, Leigh Scott wrote: >> Well then please don't express your opinion then and keep it to yourself. > >It's a free country with free speech. >If you don't like it don't read it! You do realise that asking someone nicely is not the same as trying to take away their free speech, right? Free speech also doesn't mean free from criticism. M >___ >devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org >Fedora Code of Conduct: >https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >List Archives: >https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
> Well then please don't express your opinion then and keep it to yourself. It's a free country with free speech. If you don't like it don't read it! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:24 PM Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 15:13 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > Of the two, I loved FC6 more, because I thought the way the Fedora > > logo was used throughout the artwork was really well-done. And it > > conveyed what I felt Fedora was about very well: Fedorans are the > > community, and the community is part of our DNA. Later Fedora releases > > did a good job providing a coherent theme based on codenames. > > > > For the past few years, we've lost a lot of visual differentiation as > > we've scaled back or killed off aspects of our unique per-release or > > project identity embodied in the distribution. There were even a > > couple of times where we went with what I felt to be uselessly bland > > artwork that I thought made Fedora look like a non-entity. > > > > The last few releases have had some interesting wallpapers, but we > > never quite got the same visual appeal that we had before. > > > > And to Michael's point about Ubuntu's branding, they have a set of > > design principles that they use to simultaneously present "Ubuntu" and > > the Ubuntu "release" by leveraging their codename scheme and imbuing > > it in the artwork in creative ways. That's not a thing we do in Fedora > > anymore... :( > > None of this is free, it needs people to show up and do the work. Just > as with coding or package management, there is very little value in > saying "boy, I sure wish someone else would do all this cool stuff I've > thought of". If you want it to happen, get together with like-minded > folks and do it... I know, and if I were anything resembling an artist, I would have done something about it. Alas, my skills are quite bad in this domain. :) -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 15:13 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > > Of the two, I loved FC6 more, because I thought the way the Fedora > logo was used throughout the artwork was really well-done. And it > conveyed what I felt Fedora was about very well: Fedorans are the > community, and the community is part of our DNA. Later Fedora releases > did a good job providing a coherent theme based on codenames. > > For the past few years, we've lost a lot of visual differentiation as > we've scaled back or killed off aspects of our unique per-release or > project identity embodied in the distribution. There were even a > couple of times where we went with what I felt to be uselessly bland > artwork that I thought made Fedora look like a non-entity. > > The last few releases have had some interesting wallpapers, but we > never quite got the same visual appeal that we had before. > > And to Michael's point about Ubuntu's branding, they have a set of > design principles that they use to simultaneously present "Ubuntu" and > the Ubuntu "release" by leveraging their codename scheme and imbuing > it in the artwork in creative ways. That's not a thing we do in Fedora > anymore... :( None of this is free, it needs people to show up and do the work. Just as with coding or package management, there is very little value in saying "boy, I sure wish someone else would do all this cool stuff I've thought of". If you want it to happen, get together with like-minded folks and do it... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:04 AM Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > FWIW I quite like the final version of the wallpaper. I don't like is > that it was changed at the last minute prior to final release -- that > was a process problem, for sure -- but I'm happy with the result. It's > not crap. That's just rude. > > > I'm disappointed with default wallpapers in the latest releases. I > > wonder if we could go back to more artistic images from previous > > releases? Here are some of my favorite ones: > > I guess personal taste is at issue here, so I will provide the complete > opposite feedback. IMO our default wallpapers are at their best when > they're abstract and geometric. The new version of the F32 wallpaper is > one of my all-time favorites. Looks like a lot of effort went into > getting the textures just right. The old cyan version of F32 was good > too. I'm also a big fan of F28, F23, F22, F20, F19, F18, F12. Notice we > didn't pick any the same. Geometric wallpapers are slick, professional, > and work well everywhere. Artsy backgrounds can be fun too, but they > can be more hit and miss as defaults IMO. > > Ubuntu's default backgrounds are always excellent. I like how they > manage to use the same theme for every release to build up a strong, > immediately-recognizable brand, yet still change things up a little bit > to keep it interesting. > My personal favorites were Fedora Core 5 and Fedora Core 6: FC5: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_Core_5 FC6: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_Core_6 Of the two, I loved FC6 more, because I thought the way the Fedora logo was used throughout the artwork was really well-done. And it conveyed what I felt Fedora was about very well: Fedorans are the community, and the community is part of our DNA. Later Fedora releases did a good job providing a coherent theme based on codenames. For the past few years, we've lost a lot of visual differentiation as we've scaled back or killed off aspects of our unique per-release or project identity embodied in the distribution. There were even a couple of times where we went with what I felt to be uselessly bland artwork that I thought made Fedora look like a non-entity. The last few releases have had some interesting wallpapers, but we never quite got the same visual appeal that we had before. And to Michael's point about Ubuntu's branding, they have a set of design principles that they use to simultaneously present "Ubuntu" and the Ubuntu "release" by leveraging their codename scheme and imbuing it in the artwork in creative ways. That's not a thing we do in Fedora anymore... :( -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On 17 April 2020 21:00:55 CEST, "John M. Harris Jr" wrote: >On Friday, April 17, 2020 5:49:48 AM MST Leigh Scott wrote: >> If there any plan to fix them? >> >> https://leigh123linux.fedorapeople.org/pub/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202 >> 020-04-17%2013-32-22.png > >Wow, that does look pretty shitty. Perhaps one of the old ones could be re- >used? Maybe there's some kind of personal taste involved here. Perhaps instead of saying that something "is shitty" we could maybe opt for saying things like "Wow, I really don't like that" because that is instantly interpreted as opinion no matter what language you're a native of. I didn't realise how important wallpapers seem to be to people, given that it is not even hard work to change it. Not everyone will like everything but we can at least keep a nice tone. Also, John I don't mean to single you out in any way. Br M > ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Friday, April 17, 2020 5:49:48 AM MST Leigh Scott wrote: > If there any plan to fix them? > > https://leigh123linux.fedorapeople.org/pub/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202 > 020-04-17%2013-32-22.png Wow, that does look pretty shitty. Perhaps one of the old ones could be re- used? -- John M. Harris, Jr. Splentity ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:49:48 - "Leigh Scott" wrote: > If there any plan to fix them? > > https://leigh123linux.fedorapeople.org/pub/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202020-04-17%2013-32-22.png As a contrasting opinion, I accept, and am indifferent to, whatever wallpaper the Fedora release process chooses. I don't know if it will work on your system, but I use wallpapoz, and only see images that I have chosen to see after the first boot or two. I set it so that every window gets a different background. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 06:04:21PM +0100, José Abílio Matos wrote: >On Friday, 17 April 2020 16.03.49 WEST Michael Catanzaro wrote: > >> I guess personal taste is at issue here, so I will provide the complete > >> opposite feedback. IMO our default wallpapers are at their best when > >> they're abstract and geometric. The new version of the F32 wallpaper is > >> one of my all-time favorites. Looks like a lot of effort went into > >> getting the textures just right. The old cyan version of F32 was good > >> too. I'm also a big fan of F28, F23, F22, F20, F19, F18, F12. Notice we > >> didn't pick any the same. Geometric wallpapers are slick, professional, > >> and work well everywhere. Artsy backgrounds can be fun too, but they > >> can be more hit and miss as defaults IMO. > > > >Thank you for calling us unsophisticated, to all those that are not adept >of Postmodernism and in particular of Deconstructivism. ;-) I really do not see how you could construct this reply from Michael's. He clearly starts with IMO and the rest of is the expression of his opinion, he never calls anyone anything. I'm confused here. Pierre ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Friday, 17 April 2020 16.03.49 WEST Michael Catanzaro wrote: > I guess personal taste is at issue here, so I will provide the complete > opposite feedback. IMO our default wallpapers are at their best when > they're abstract and geometric. The new version of the F32 wallpaper is > one of my all-time favorites. Looks like a lot of effort went into > getting the textures just right. The old cyan version of F32 was good > too. I'm also a big fan of F28, F23, F22, F20, F19, F18, F12. Notice we > didn't pick any the same. Geometric wallpapers are slick, professional, > and work well everywhere. Artsy backgrounds can be fun too, but they > can be more hit and miss as defaults IMO. Thank you for calling us unsophisticated, to all those that are not adept of Postmodernism and in particular of Deconstructivism. ;-) There is no need to answer. :-) -- José Abílio ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
>When I updated, I honestly thought that my graphics drivers were broken. Me too. Geoff Marr IRC: coremodule On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:09 AM Kamil Paral wrote: > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 2:51 PM Leigh Scott > wrote: > >> If there any plan to fix them? >> >> >> https://leigh123linux.fedorapeople.org/pub/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202020-04-17%2013-32-22.png > > > When I updated, I honestly thought that my graphics drivers were broken. I > don't think that's a positive outcome. I think the previous version > (differently colored, without such heavy dithering) was better. This one > looks like a picture with jpeg quality 30. > > I'm disappointed with default wallpapers in the latest releases. I wonder > if we could go back to more artistic images from previous releases? Here > are some of my favorite ones: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_29 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_27 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_21 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_16 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_15 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_11 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_7 > > Especially the one in Fedora 15 (GNOME edition) and 16 was outstanding. > Can we do more of those, please? > > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 04:47:54PM +0200, Christopher Engelhard wrote: > On 17.04.20 16:07, Kamil Paral wrote: > > Especially the one in Fedora 15 (GNOME edition) and 16 was outstanding. > > Can we do more of those, please? > > Not weighing in on the merits of the current art, but 16 is still my > favourite default artwork of any distro, ever. Nooo, 26 was a real piece of art! ;) A refresher: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers -- Tomasz Torcz There exists no separation between gods and men: to...@pipebreaker.pl one blends softly casual into the other. — Frank Herbert ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:12 AM Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 16:09 +0300, Benson Muite wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Leigh Scott wrote: > > > > Hi Leigh, > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think you could please use nicer language? There's no need to > > > > use words like that to describe other people's work in the community. > > > > > > That was the nicest term I could use to describe it! > > > > > > > I personally quite like the 90s retro look. > > > > > > > > Hi Leigh, > > > > Elections for alternative wallpapers are currently open: > > https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/elections/ > > Please vote for ones that you like. > > > > The submission phase for Fedora 32 has unfortunately already closed. > > Please do make wallpaper submissions for Fedora 33 as well to ensure > > there is a wide choice of excellent candidates. > > For people who have Strong Opinions (TM) about wallpapers, the design > process is open: you could have been reviewing the candidates and the > refinement process as it happened, and providing (respectful!) input > there... > > https://pagure.io/design/issue/669 > > for instance, the halftoning is a choice, and there were candidates > with more and less of it, and only a handful of people giving their > opinions... > I don't have an opinion on the artistic value of it (or any previous Fedora background), but functionally, it has a low quality appearance which many people won't look past, and it is busy with color contrast making it difficult to see desktop icons. -Dan ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 16:09 +0300, Benson Muite wrote: > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Leigh Scott wrote: > > > Hi Leigh, > > > > > > > > > Do you think you could please use nicer language? There's no need to > > > use words like that to describe other people's work in the community. > > > > That was the nicest term I could use to describe it! > > > > > I personally quite like the 90s retro look. > > > > > Hi Leigh, > > Elections for alternative wallpapers are currently open: > https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/elections/ > Please vote for ones that you like. > > The submission phase for Fedora 32 has unfortunately already closed. > Please do make wallpaper submissions for Fedora 33 as well to ensure > there is a wide choice of excellent candidates. For people who have Strong Opinions (TM) about wallpapers, the design process is open: you could have been reviewing the candidates and the refinement process as it happened, and providing (respectful!) input there... https://pagure.io/design/issue/669 for instance, the halftoning is a choice, and there were candidates with more and less of it, and only a handful of people giving their opinions... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
FWIW I quite like the final version of the wallpaper. I don't like is that it was changed at the last minute prior to final release -- that was a process problem, for sure -- but I'm happy with the result. It's not crap. That's just rude. I'm disappointed with default wallpapers in the latest releases. I wonder if we could go back to more artistic images from previous releases? Here are some of my favorite ones: I guess personal taste is at issue here, so I will provide the complete opposite feedback. IMO our default wallpapers are at their best when they're abstract and geometric. The new version of the F32 wallpaper is one of my all-time favorites. Looks like a lot of effort went into getting the textures just right. The old cyan version of F32 was good too. I'm also a big fan of F28, F23, F22, F20, F19, F18, F12. Notice we didn't pick any the same. Geometric wallpapers are slick, professional, and work well everywhere. Artsy backgrounds can be fun too, but they can be more hit and miss as defaults IMO. Ubuntu's default backgrounds are always excellent. I like how they manage to use the same theme for every release to build up a strong, immediately-recognizable brand, yet still change things up a little bit to keep it interesting. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On 17.04.20 16:07, Kamil Paral wrote: > Especially the one in Fedora 15 (GNOME edition) and 16 was outstanding. > Can we do more of those, please? Not weighing in on the merits of the current art, but 16 is still my favourite default artwork of any distro, ever. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 2:51 PM Leigh Scott wrote: > If there any plan to fix them? > > > https://leigh123linux.fedorapeople.org/pub/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202020-04-17%2013-32-22.png When I updated, I honestly thought that my graphics drivers were broken. I don't think that's a positive outcome. I think the previous version (differently colored, without such heavy dithering) was better. This one looks like a picture with jpeg quality 30. I'm disappointed with default wallpapers in the latest releases. I wonder if we could go back to more artistic images from previous releases? Here are some of my favorite ones: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_29 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_27 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_21 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_16 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_15 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_11 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_7 Especially the one in Fedora 15 (GNOME edition) and 16 was outstanding. Can we do more of those, please? ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On 17 April 2020 15:17:50 CEST, Leigh Scott wrote: >> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Leigh Scott wrote: >> >> Hi Leigh, >> >> Elections for alternative wallpapers are currently open: >> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/elections/ >> Please vote for ones that you like. >> >> The submission phase for Fedora 32 has unfortunately already closed. >> Please do make wallpaper submissions for Fedora 33 as well to ensure >> there is a wide choice of excellent candidates. > >Vote done, they are much better than the default. Good that you found something you liked. >___ >devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org >Fedora Code of Conduct: >https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >List Archives: >https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Leigh Scott wrote: > > Hi Leigh, > > Elections for alternative wallpapers are currently open: > https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/elections/ > Please vote for ones that you like. > > The submission phase for Fedora 32 has unfortunately already closed. > Please do make wallpaper submissions for Fedora 33 as well to ensure > there is a wide choice of excellent candidates. Vote done, they are much better than the default. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Leigh Scott wrote: > > Hi Leigh, > > > > > > Do you think you could please use nicer language? There's no need to > > use words like that to describe other people's work in the community. > > That was the nicest term I could use to describe it! > > > > > I personally quite like the 90s retro look. > > Hi Leigh, Elections for alternative wallpapers are currently open: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/elections/ Please vote for ones that you like. The submission phase for Fedora 32 has unfortunately already closed. Please do make wallpaper submissions for Fedora 33 as well to ensure there is a wide choice of excellent candidates. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
> > Do you think you could please use nicer language? There's no need to > > use words like that to describe other people's work in the community. > > That was the nicest term I could use to describe it! Well then please don't express your opinion then and keep it to yourself. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
> Hi Leigh, > > > Do you think you could please use nicer language? There's no need to > use words like that to describe other people's work in the community. That was the nicest term I could use to describe it! > > I personally quite like the 90s retro look. > > > > https://leigh123linux.fedorapeople.org/pub/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%... > > ___ > > devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: f32-backgrounds look like crap
Hi Leigh, > If there any plan to fix them? Do you think you could please use nicer language? There's no need to use words like that to describe other people's work in the community. I personally quite like the 90s retro look. > https://leigh123linux.fedorapeople.org/pub/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202020-04-17%2013-32-22.png > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
f32-backgrounds look like crap
If there any plan to fix them? https://leigh123linux.fedorapeople.org/pub/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202020-04-17%2013-32-22.png ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
