Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On 10/08/2011 04:17 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 10/08/2011 12:55 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: Is there any reason to use TrueCrypt, over the whole disk encryption that Fedora already provides? LUKS just works afaict ... Does it? It is not easily accessible for a regular end user and is not cross platform. Before this thread end in flame (as almost all discussions on this list :-) Truecrypt on Linux uses kernel dm-crypt, so it is all mainly about metadata format handling. I will probably try to add alternative to cryptsetup to handle directly Truecrypt format (which is documented on project page, outside of source), the same way I already added loop-aes support. For LUKS - it is cross platform, at least on Windows you can map it using http://freeotfe.org/ and DragonFLy BSD supported it as well. While I like Truecrypt myself, I would suggest to avoid it in distro for license problems (as Spot already mentioned). Milan -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 15:11:06 +0200 Milan Broz mb...@redhat.com wrote: Before this thread end in flame (as almost all discussions on this list :-) Truecrypt on Linux uses kernel dm-crypt, so it is all mainly about metadata format handling. I will probably try to add alternative to cryptsetup to handle directly Truecrypt format (which is documented on project page, outside of source), the same way I already added loop-aes support. For those who didn't bother to look at the tcplay site (the subject of this thread :) it claims to be re-implemented based on the upstream docs and a bunch of trial and error (they claim the upstream docs are wrong or misleading in a number of places). If it's truely a clean room re-implementation, hopefully it will be acceptable license wise. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
Milan Broz wrote: Truecrypt on Linux uses kernel dm-crypt, so it is all mainly about metadata format handling. I will probably try to add alternative to cryptsetup to handle directly Truecrypt format (which is documented on project page, outside of source), the same way I already added loop-aes support. tcplay also uses dm-crypt. The author found that the Truecrypt format documentation had a lot of errors; see the tcplay README for details. It appears that there are provisions for using an API from tcplay from other programs, but I haven't really examined that. While I like Truecrypt myself, I would suggest to avoid it in distro for license problems (as Spot already mentioned). Which is exactly why I'm trying to get the BSD-licensed tcplay into Fedora. It would be great to also have a way for users to deal with it through GUI tools, but tcplay does not provide that. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On 08/10/11 01:15 PM, Eric Smith wrote: Milan Broz wrote: Truecrypt on Linux uses kernel dm-crypt, so it is all mainly about metadata format handling. I will probably try to add alternative to cryptsetup to handle directly Truecrypt format (which is documented on project page, outside of source), the same way I already added loop-aes support. tcplay also uses dm-crypt. The author found that the Truecrypt format documentation had a lot of errors; see the tcplay README for details. It appears that there are provisions for using an API from tcplay from other programs, but I haven't really examined that. Yes, there's an API defined and a test code that one use as an example. Regards, Dariusz -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On 10/08/2011 09:15 PM, Eric Smith wrote: Milan Broz wrote: Truecrypt on Linux uses kernel dm-crypt, so it is all mainly about metadata format handling. I will probably try to add alternative to cryptsetup to handle directly Truecrypt format (which is documented on project page, outside of source), the same way I already added loop-aes support. tcplay also uses dm-crypt. The author found that the Truecrypt format documentation had a lot of errors; see the tcplay README for details. Sure, just libcryptsetup is designed to support various formats so adding Truecrypt container is just logical step. (and tcplay reimplements a lot of code which cryptsetup already have) You can of course package tcplay separately as well. Milan -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On 10/06/2011 04:54 PM, Richard Shaw wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, T.C. Hollingsworth tchollingswo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote: If I remember correctly it's not that TrueCrypt is non-free, but that the license is incompatible with Fedora and upstream was not willing to budge on that so it was re-branded instead. The TrueCrypt License is, in fact, non-free for several reasons: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/distributions/2008-October/000276.html That's being rather pedantic... Yes it's considered non-free because of the screwy licensing agreement, however, the software is free to download and use, it is open source. TrueCrypt is definitely not Free Software. A simple rebranding to prevent use of their trademark is not sufficient to make it Free Software. It is also not Open Source, as it fails several of the OSI Open Source Definition criteria. In addition, I have strong reason to believe that the license in TrueCrypt is carefully crafted to incorporate legal conditions where the TrueCrypt upstream could do all sorts of really really nasty and horrible things, including suing users for _complying_ with the terms of the license. When I pointed this out to TrueCrypt's upstream in 2008, their answer was basically Yeah, so what?. Stand far, far, far away. ~tom == Fedora Project -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On Fri, Oct 07, 2011 at 02:51:26PM -0400, Tom Callaway wrote: On 10/06/2011 04:54 PM, Richard Shaw wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, T.C. Hollingsworth tchollingswo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote: If I remember correctly it's not that TrueCrypt is non-free, but that the license is incompatible with Fedora and upstream was not willing to budge on that so it was re-branded instead. The TrueCrypt License is, in fact, non-free for several reasons: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/distributions/2008-October/000276.html That's being rather pedantic... Yes it's considered non-free because of the screwy licensing agreement, however, the software is free to download and use, it is open source. TrueCrypt is definitely not Free Software. A simple rebranding to prevent use of their trademark is not sufficient to make it Free Software. It is also not Open Source, as it fails several of the OSI Open Source Definition criteria. In addition, I have strong reason to believe that the license in TrueCrypt is carefully crafted to incorporate legal conditions where the TrueCrypt upstream could do all sorts of really really nasty and horrible things, including suing users for _complying_ with the terms of the license. When I pointed this out to TrueCrypt's upstream in 2008, their answer was basically Yeah, so what?. Stand far, far, far away. Is there any reason to use TrueCrypt, over the whole disk encryption that Fedora already provides? LUKS just works afaict ... Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones virt-df lists disk usage of guests without needing to install any software inside the virtual machine. Supports Linux and Windows. http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-df/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On 10/07/2011 09:25 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: On Fri, Oct 07, 2011 at 02:51:26PM -0400, Tom Callaway wrote: On 10/06/2011 04:54 PM, Richard Shaw wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, T.C. Hollingsworth tchollingswo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote: If I remember correctly it's not that TrueCrypt is non-free, but that the license is incompatible with Fedora and upstream was not willing to budge on that so it was re-branded instead. The TrueCrypt License is, in fact, non-free for several reasons: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/distributions/2008-October/000276.html That's being rather pedantic... Yes it's considered non-free because of the screwy licensing agreement, however, the software is free to download and use, it is open source. TrueCrypt is definitely not Free Software. A simple rebranding to prevent use of their trademark is not sufficient to make it Free Software. It is also not Open Source, as it fails several of the OSI Open Source Definition criteria. In addition, I have strong reason to believe that the license in TrueCrypt is carefully crafted to incorporate legal conditions where the TrueCrypt upstream could do all sorts of really really nasty and horrible things, including suing users for _complying_ with the terms of the license. When I pointed this out to TrueCrypt's upstream in 2008, their answer was basically Yeah, so what?. Stand far, far, far away. Is there any reason to use TrueCrypt, over the whole disk encryption that Fedora already provides? LUKS just works afaict ... works on both linux and windows:-) while you use it on windows since it has a lots of features you can also use you pendrive on linux...and there is no alternative:-( -- Levente Si vis pacem para bellum! -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On 10/08/2011 12:55 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: Is there any reason to use TrueCrypt, over the whole disk encryption that Fedora already provides? LUKS just works afaict ... Does it? It is not easily accessible for a regular end user and is not cross platform. Rahul -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
There was discussion back in 2007 of TrueCrypt, and the conclusion was that the license was non-free, with several major problems. There is now a BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt called tcplay, which works with Linux using the device mapper: https://github.com/bwalex/tc-play I've sucessfully used it to read and write encrypted NTFS volumes created with TrueCrypt on Windows 7. I have submitted a package for review: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=743497 Eric -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
Hi Eric, On 10/06/2011 10:37 AM, Eric Smith wrote: There was discussion back in 2007 of TrueCrypt, and the conclusion was that the license was non-free, with several major problems. There is now a BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt called tcplay, which works with Linux using the device mapper: https://github.com/bwalex/tc-play I've sucessfully used it to read and write encrypted NTFS volumes created with TrueCrypt on Windows 7. Splendid! I've been looking for something like this for a while. Looks like it's time to create a new DragonFly BSD guest machine and restart tracking what they're doing too, they have some cool stuff there. I have submitted a package for review: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=743497 I've posted my review, do take a look when you have time. Best regards, -- Michel Alexandre Salim µblog: http://identi.ca/hircus http://twitter.com/hircus GPG key ID: 78884778 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:37 AM, Eric Smith e...@brouhaha.com wrote: There was discussion back in 2007 of TrueCrypt, and the conclusion was that the license was non-free, with several major problems. Just an FYI, unless you specifically want to stay away from problematic licences (i.e. Fedora) but don't have a problem using RPM Fusion, you can install RealCrypt. It's IS TruCrypt just re-branded. If I remember correctly it's not that TrueCrypt is non-free, but that the license is incompatible with Fedora and upstream was not willing to budge on that so it was re-branded instead. Richard -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:37 AM, Eric Smith e...@brouhaha.com wrote: There was discussion back in 2007 of TrueCrypt, and the conclusion was that the license was non-free, with several major problems. Just an FYI, unless you specifically want to stay away from problematic licences (i.e. Fedora) but don't have a problem using RPM Fusion, you can install RealCrypt. It's IS TruCrypt just re-branded. If I remember correctly it's not that TrueCrypt is non-free, but that the license is incompatible with Fedora and upstream was not willing to budge on that so it was re-branded instead. The TrueCrypt License is, in fact, non-free for several reasons: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/distributions/2008-October/000276.html -T.C. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, T.C. Hollingsworth tchollingswo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote: If I remember correctly it's not that TrueCrypt is non-free, but that the license is incompatible with Fedora and upstream was not willing to budge on that so it was re-branded instead. The TrueCrypt License is, in fact, non-free for several reasons: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/distributions/2008-October/000276.html That's being rather pedantic... Yes it's considered non-free because of the screwy licensing agreement, however, the software is free to download and use, it is open source. Actually your link supports my last statement quite nicely. Richard -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
On Thu, 2011-10-06 at 15:54 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, T.C. Hollingsworth tchollingswo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote: If I remember correctly it's not that TrueCrypt is non-free, but that the license is incompatible with Fedora and upstream was not willing to budge on that so it was re-branded instead. The TrueCrypt License is, in fact, non-free for several reasons: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/distributions/2008-October/000276.html That's being rather pedantic... Yes it's considered non-free because of the screwy licensing agreement, however, the software is free to download and use, it is open source. Actually your link supports my last statement quite nicely. Um. What? How can the software be open source if the license is not? The license is what determines the status of the software. At the time of that mail there were very definitely issues in the TC license which prevented it from being Free or Open Source under the FSF or OSI definitions. I believe the license has been changed since then, though, and I don't know if it's been re-evaluated. Spot is pretty familiar with the case, so he might be able to help out. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote:t, however, the software is free to download and use, it is open source. (free (of cost) open source) != Free software. Richard charles zeitler -- Love is the law, love under will. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tcplay: BSD-licensed alternative to TrueCrypt
Richard Shaw wrote: That's being rather pedantic... Yes it's considered non-free because of the screwy licensing agreement, however, the software is free to download and use, Free of charge (gratis) != Free Software Free Software as defined by the Free Software Foundation refers to freedom, not price. Freedom to download and use is not sufficient, freedom to study, modify and distribute is essential, and may not be restricted by arbitrary limitations (nor of course forbidden entirely), otherwise the software is not free. it is open source. The source code is available != the software is Open Source. Open Source is a term defined by the Open Source Initiative, which means almost the same thing as Free Software. The source code being merely available can be termed Shared Source (a term coined by M$), source-available or whatever, but NOT Open Source. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
