Presence service bugs/enhancements

[Giannis Galanis]

Simon,

The following are the current bugs/enhancements regarding the presence
service. They are listed from high to low priority with their corresponding
trac number.

1. The presence service should detect more efficiently the internet
connectivity and switch to gabble when appropriate(4193)

2. In link-local XOs are seen in neighbor view but cannot be shared with.
Sometimes they are not connected to the mesh anymore, but still present. In
some such cases the avahi-browse cannot resolve the services of the
corresponding XO. This is high priority but i dont have a log file in a
blocking case, although i have experienced it in build617(4402)

3. Ability to switch from gabble to salut manually using the options:
auto,salut,gabble(4403)

4. Ability to keep an activity alive when passing from salut to gabble and
vice versa. This can occur automatically when internet connectivity is
dynamically lost or recovered(4404)

5. In gabble, the public IP must be available in the buddy list, or at least
be accessible through the jabber server upon request(4405)

6. The jabber servers should be switchable(to change from one to the other)
in a neater way then accessing the config file and rebooting. This can
probably be invoked by sending smth like ..xmlns:stream="
http://etherx.jabber.org/streams"; to="jabber.laptop.org"as i noticed in
the log files.  If it is simple to apply, can you describe how it can be
done properly?(not on trac)

Thanx

yani
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Re: Presence service bugs/enhancements

[Kim Quirk]

Thanks for putting these all together, Yani.

Dafydd and Simon - can we discuss these and the new mesh protocol at the
12:30pm edt meeting today? I think some of these issues are supposed to be
addressed with the more robust protocol.

Thanks,
Kim

On 10/23/07, Giannis Galanis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Simon,
>
> The following are the current bugs/enhancements regarding the presence
> service. They are listed from high to low priority with their corresponding
> trac number.
>
> 1. The presence service should detect more efficiently the internet
> connectivity and switch to gabble when appropriate(4193)
>
> 2. In link-local XOs are seen in neighbor view but cannot be shared with.
> Sometimes they are not connected to the mesh anymore, but still present. In
> some such cases the avahi-browse cannot resolve the services of the
> corresponding XO. This is high priority but i dont have a log file in a
> blocking case, although i have experienced it in build617(4402)
>
> 3. Ability to switch from gabble to salut manually using the options:
> auto,salut,gabble(4403)
>
> 4. Ability to keep an activity alive when passing from salut to gabble and
> vice versa. This can occur automatically when internet connectivity is
> dynamically lost or recovered(4404)
>
> 5. In gabble, the public IP must be available in the buddy list, or at
> least be accessible through the jabber server upon request(4405)
>
> 6. The jabber servers should be switchable(to change from one to the
> other) in a neater way then accessing the config file and rebooting. This
> can probably be invoked by sending smth like ..xmlns:stream="
> http://etherx.jabber.org/streams"; to="jabber.laptop.org"as i noticed
> in the log files.  If it is simple to apply, can you describe how it can be
> done properly?(not on trac)
>
> Thanx
>
> yani
>
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[IMPORTANT] New policy on blocker bugs

[Ivan Krstić]

Hi,

until we ship, we're instituting a new policy on blocker bugs:

* Any bugs being newly designated as FRS blockers need to have an e- 
mail sent to the sugar@ or devel@ list (depending on which part of  
the system they touch) with a short explanation of why this bug is a  
blocker, any dependencies it might have, any relevant details, any  
idea on whether a fix is known or forthcoming, etc.

* Any FRS blockers being closed need to have an e-mail sent to sugar@  
or devel@ with a short update on whether the fix is in the builds,  
pending for inclusion, etc. If not yet in the builds, and it's not  
obvious from the bug's Trac page where to find the fix, please  
include a link to it. Anything else that's worth knowing about this  
bug or how it was closed, please include it; we have various  
dependencies between our blockers, and details you provide might  
provide clues or directly unblock work on other bugs.

When sending these e-mails, please copy and paste a line or two of  
the bug description itself into the e-mail along with a link to the  
full bug. For new blocker bugs, please use the subject 'new FRS  
blocker: #bugnumber', and for closed ones, 'closed FRS blocker:  
#bugnumber'. This will let people who don't care about the messages  
ignore them based on the subject line.

Thanks. Cheers,

--
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Re: [IMPORTANT] New policy on blocker bugs

[Bernardo Innocenti]

On 10/23/07 08:53, Ivan Krstić wrote:

> When sending these e-mails, please copy and paste a line or two of  
> the bug description itself into the e-mail along with a link to the  
> full bug. For new blocker bugs, please use the subject 'new FRS  
> blocker: #bugnumber', and for closed ones, 'closed FRS blocker:  
> #bugnumber'. This will let people who don't care about the messages  
> ignore them based on the subject line.

Wouldn't it be easier if we just CC'd devel@ in trac to achieve
the same result?

Maybe we can ask Noah to do that automatically for blockers?

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Re: Presence service bugs/enhancements

[Simon McVittie]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 at 07:55:57 -0400, Kim Quirk wrote:
> > 1. The presence service should detect more efficiently the internet
> > connectivity and switch to gabble when appropriate(4193)

As I commented on the bug, we need debug logs - this should have worked, and
without logs we can't know why it didn't.

> > 2. In link-local XOs are seen in neighbor view but cannot be shared with.
> > Sometimes they are not connected to the mesh anymore, but still present. In
> > some such cases the avahi-browse cannot resolve the services of the
> > corresponding XO. This is high priority but i dont have a log file in a
> > blocking case, although i have experienced it in build617(4402)

Sjoerd is the expert for this one.

> > 3. Ability to switch from gabble to salut manually using the options:
> > auto,salut,gabble(4403)

As I commented on the bug, I'd like some more idea what the
requirements are for this.

> > 4. Ability to keep an activity alive when passing from salut to gabble and
> > vice versa. This can occur automatically when internet connectivity is
> > dynamically lost or recovered(4404)

As commented:

This is difficult, and can't be fixed purely within PS - activities will
need to handle the switchover themselves, since we don't and can't know how
to resynchronize arbitrary activities (the activity can't assume that everyone
migrates at the same time). I don't think this is feasible for 1.0.

> > 5. In gabble, the public IP must be available in the buddy list, or at
> > least be accessible through the jabber server upon request(4405)

As I commented, the private addresses are going away soon too - we only
have them because some activities (Read) haven't been ported to use
Tubes for collaboration yet (bug filed). The only reason they're visible in
the dev console is that it's meant to give a complete picture of what the PS is
thinking, so it should expose all information the PS knows about.

The XO might not *have* a public IP, might not be usefully reachable at
its public IP, (e.g. when behind NAT), and so on, so this is not
generally useful information for PS to provide.

> > 6. The jabber servers should be switchable(to change from one to the
> > other) in a neater way then accessing the config file and rebooting. This
> > can probably be invoked by sending smth like ..xmlns:stream="
> > http://etherx.jabber.org/streams"; to="jabber.laptop.org"as i noticed
> > in the log files.  If it is simple to apply, can you describe how it can be
> > done properly?(not on trac)

No, you can't send a new  element to the server to
magically turn it into a different server :-) Gabble needs to be told to
open a new TCP connection to the new server and do XMPP over that, and
drop its old connection. This is entirely possible; Gabble already supports
connecting to many servers simultaneously, if this is ever needed.

It would be possible to add API to the Presence Service to drop its
connection to the current server and connect to a different server. What
are the requirements for this task? Is there a UI requirement that we should
be supporting? I'd guess that this would be part of the same UI that
handled switching between Gabble and Salut?

Parts of the PS theoretically support connecting to arbitrarily many Telepathy
connections (any combination of Gabble and Salut), but sharing becomes
awkward in that case (you can't yet share across multiple servers, and
sharing the same activity across XMPP and link-local at the same time is
a minefield). Activities involving XOs from multiple servers are currently
planned for 1.1; it's too early to say whether that's overly optimistic.
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Comment: OpenPGP key: http://www.pseudorandom.co.uk/2003/contact/ or pgp.net

iD8DBQFHHfQhWSc8zVUw7HYRAig+AJ0XzTzFGnx5MeOpbAZ5/sosbGl3uwCgwS0y
BoVS+nQu5DrEYehaQpMUD7k=
=HJhs
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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closed FRS blocker: #3018: OLPC does not boot with Ethiopian locale: am_ET.UTF-8

[Bernardo Innocenti]

https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/3018

 1. OLPC boot process indicates some services failed to start 
 2. Sugar environment fails to start - while pure X, without environment, start 
OK 
 Bernardo Innocenti says latest Fedora Devel glibc 2.90 works ok with 
am_ET.UTF-8.
 Could OLPC get that version? 

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Update Ethiopian installation instructions

[Bernardo Innocenti]

Hello,

as most of the prerequisites landed in joyride, I have updated
the installation instructions for testing the Ethiopian
localization and the Amharic input method.

The procedure is now greatly simplified:

  https://www.codewiz.org/~bernie/wiki/EthiopianLocale

The todo list is also shorter:

  https://www.codewiz.org/~bernie/wiki/EthiopianLocale

Next thing, I'll be working on automatically enabling the
am_ET locale from within olpc-dm/.xinitrc infrastructure.

Why not in /etc/init.d/olpc-configure?  My understanding
is that we were planning to revamp it and move its
functionality in the login rc script, with no need to
hack configuration files in /etc.

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Re: [IMPORTANT] New policy on blocker bugs

[Bernardo Innocenti]

On 10/23/07 10:04, Ivan Krstić wrote:

> That would work, if people were sure to include additional  
> information about bugs they're closing in Trac when they do so (is  
> fix in build? was something else touched to close this? anything else  
> people should know?). Right now, most people aren't doing this.

Agreed.

Yesterday, we had a test meeting with Kim, where I learned
that we're now going to have an additional "verified" state
to be used by the QA staff.

Maybe we could set a policy for developers and/or testers
to say in what build they believe the bug to be fixed.



> Noah's busy until at least next week, so for now, please either send  
> e-mails or add devel@ to CC manually and remember to add the extra  
> information above as a comment when closing blockers.

Ok.  I've done a quick test myself earlier today.  Does it
look good?

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Re: [IMPORTANT] New policy on blocker bugs

[Ivan Krstić]

On Oct 23, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Bernardo Innocenti wrote:
> Wouldn't it be easier if we just CC'd devel@ in trac to achieve
> the same result?

That would work, if people were sure to include additional  
information about bugs they're closing in Trac when they do so (is  
fix in build? was something else touched to close this? anything else  
people should know?). Right now, most people aren't doing this.

> Maybe we can ask Noah to do that automatically for blockers?

Noah's busy until at least next week, so for now, please either send  
e-mails or add devel@ to CC manually and remember to add the extra  
information above as a comment when closing blockers.

--
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Re: Presence service bugs/enhancements

[Dafydd Harries]

Ar 23/10/2007 am 07:55, ysgrifennodd Kim Quirk:
> Thanks for putting these all together, Yani.
> 
> Dafydd and Simon - can we discuss these and the new mesh protocol at the
> 12:30pm edt meeting today? I think some of these issues are supposed to be
> addressed with the more robust protocol.

Sure, we can join in.

-- 
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Bitfrost and Launching Binary Executables

[Ian Daniher]

Currently the XO is unable to use the slew of programs available, due to the
lack of a gui'ed package manager which necessitates command-line knowledge.
Also, the limited number of repos availible on the developmental builds
necessitates extensive googling to satisfy dependencies. I am working on an
activity container that can be used to launch binary applications contained
within it, rather than launching python script. Would bitfrost interfere?
Are there plans for something similar?
Thanks for your time,
-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype : it.daniher
irc.freenode.com: DyDisMe
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Project hosting requested for ColingoXO

[Benjamin Lowenstein]

1. Project name : ColingoXO
2. Existing website, if any : http://wiki.laptop.org/go/colingoXO
3. One-line description : ColingoXO creates a platform for
constructivist language-learning by letting children splice video clips to
create and share video narratives.

4. Longer description   :

Children will be able to use all video clips from the copyleft Colingo video
library or alternatively record new clips with the XO camera and microphone.
Beyond its role as a simple video editor, ColingoXO will focus on taking
advantage of the XO's mesh capabilities. Videos will not be housed on
individual XO's, but rather be housed and streamed from the School server.
Video narratives, which are essentially XSPF playlists, will be kept locally
in the Journal and be easily passed through the mesh due to their
lightweight, text-based format. Please see our wiki page for more info...

5. URLs of similar projects : http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Shtooka_Project

6. Committer list
   Please list the maintainer (lead developer) as the first entry. Only list

   developers who need to be given accounts so that they can commit to your
   project's code repository, or push their own. There is no need to list
   non-committer developers.

  Username   Full name SSH2 key URL
E-mail
     - 
--
   #1 awjrichardsArthur Richards
http://dev.colingo.org/mediawiki/index.php/User:Arthur[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   #2 lionstoneBen Lowenstein
http://dev.colingo.org/mediawiki/index.php/User:Ben   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   #3
  ...

   If any developers don't have their SSH2 keys on the web, please attach
them
   to the application e-mail.

7. Preferred development model

   [X] Central tree. Every developer can push his changes directly to the
   project's git tree. This is the standard model that will be familiar
to
   CVS and Subversion users, and that tends to work well for most
projects.

   [ ] Maintainer-owned tree. Every developer creates his own git tree, or
   multiple git trees. He periodically asks the maintainer to look at
one
   or more of these trees, and merge changes into the maintainer-owned,
   "main" tree. This is the model used by the Linux kernel, and is
   well-suited to projects wishing to maintain a tighter control on code
   entering the main tree.

   If you choose the maintainer-owned tree model, but wish to set up some
   shared trees where all of your project's committers can commit directly,
   as might be the case with a "discussion" tree, or a tree for an
individual
   feature, you may send us such a request by e-mail, and we will set up the

   tree for you.

8. Set up a project mailing list:

   [X] Yes, named after our project name
   [ ] Yes, named __
   [ ] No

   When your project is just getting off the ground, we suggest you eschew
   a separate mailing list and instead keep discussion about your project
   on the main OLPC development list. This will give you more input and
   potentially attract more developers to your project; when the volume of
   messages related to your project reaches some critical mass, we can
   trivially create a separate mailing list for you.

   If you need multiple lists, let us know. We discourage having many
   mailing lists for smaller projects, as this tends to
   stunt the growth of your project community. You can always add more lists
   later.

9. Commit notifications

   [X] Notification of commits to the main tree should be e-mailed to the
list
   we chose to create above
   [ ] A separate mailing list, -git, should be created for
commit
   notifications
   [ ] No commit notifications, please

10. Shell accounts

   As a general rule, we don't provide shell accounts to developers unless
   there's a demonstrated need. If you have one, please explain here, and
   list the usernames of the committers above needing shell access.

11. Notes/comments:

To get the latest code:
http://dev.colingo.org/mediawiki/index.php/HOWTO_Checkout_ColingoXO
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Re: Bitfrost and Launching Binary Executables

[Michael Stone]

Without knowing more about how your wrapper works, I'm unable to offer
useful advice about how it will interact with activity containerization
(i.e. the relevant part of Bitfrost).

Can offer me a few words describing your design and implementation?

Thanks,

Michael

On Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 12:42:05PM -0400, Ian Daniher wrote:
> Currently the XO is unable to use the slew of programs available, due to the
> lack of a gui'ed package manager which necessitates command-line knowledge.
> Also, the limited number of repos availible on the developmental builds
> necessitates extensive googling to satisfy dependencies. I am working on an
> activity container that can be used to launch binary applications contained
> within it, rather than launching python script. Would bitfrost interfere?
> Are there plans for something similar?
> Thanks for your time,
> -- 
> Ian Daniher
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Skype : it.daniher
> irc.freenode.com: DyDisMe

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Re: Presence service bugs/enhancements

[Sjoerd Simons]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 02:16:18PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
> > > 2. In link-local XOs are seen in neighbor view but cannot be shared with.
> > > Sometimes they are not connected to the mesh anymore, but still present.
> > > In some such cases the avahi-browse cannot resolve the services of the
> > > corresponding XO. This is high priority but i dont have a log file in a
> > > blocking case, although i have experienced it in build617(4402)
> 
> Sjoerd is the expert for this one.

See the comments in the bugreport

  Sjoerd
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new FRS blocker 4418 - no sound in tamtam

[Kim Quirk]

Latest joyride build, 81.

Also, I recommend putting notes in the Test Group Release Notes page to help
others decide whether they want to load a particular build.:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_Group_Release_Notes
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Espeak 1.29 rpm

[Assim Deodia]

Hi All,

We are trying to install espeak using "yum install espeak" but this is
installing espeak version 1.28 whereas latest is 1.29.

We tried to search for RPM of 1.29 but was not able to find it.
Is there any way to get 1.29 working on XO?

espeak 1.28 has some bugs like it cannot espeak words starting with any of
the characters 'ckpqtvz'.
Is there any work around to fix this bug?

-- 
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Assim
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Re: Espeak 1.29 rpm

[Yuan Chao]

On 10/23/07, Assim Deodia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> espeak 1.28 has some bugs like it cannot espeak words starting with any of
> the characters 'ckpqtvz'.
> Is there any work around to fix this bug?
I've tried the official binary build of espeak 1.29 on XO. The problem
is still there. However, espeak 1.24 RPM for FC5 works fine on my
thinkpad. Maybe I should try an older version on XO.


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Re: new FRS blocker 4418 - no sound in tamtam

[Jean Piché]

Hello,

We develop almost entirely on the machine itself or in jhbuild. What  
does the joyride build entail and why would TamTam fail in it? Does  
sound work otherwise?  Does csound work otherwise?


A wiki search on joyride brings up almost no information.

jp




On 23-Oct-07, at 3:45 PM, Kim Quirk wrote:


Latest joyride build, 81.

Also, I recommend putting notes in the Test Group Release Notes  
page to help others decide whether they want to load a particular  
build.: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_Group_Release_Notes

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Re: new FRS blocker 4418 - no sound in tamtam

[Kim Quirk]

Hi Jean,
We are finished with Trial-3 branch. I need to let cscott send out the
details of the new build system since I'm not very familiar with. For the
next few days I'll assume issues like this bug (sound not working) are
probably caused by something in the build process. So changing owner to jg
or cscott is appropriate.

Thanks,
Kim

On 10/23/07, Jean Piché <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> We develop almost entirely on the machine itself or in jhbuild. What does
> the joyride build entail and why would TamTam fail in it? Does sound work
> otherwise?  Does csound work otherwise?
>
> A wiki search on joyride brings up almost no information.
>
> jp
>
>
>
>
> On 23-Oct-07, at 3:45 PM, Kim Quirk wrote:
>
> Latest joyride build, 81.
>
> Also, I recommend putting notes in the Test Group Release Notes page to
> help others decide whether they want to load a particular build.:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_Group_Release_Notes
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Re: Capturing wireless traffic on the xo

[Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero]

Hi all,

i've put this procedure in the wiki:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Wireless

Feel free to add or correct the information.

 Cheers!
On 10/22/07, Javier Cardona <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bernie,
>
> As requested, here are the steps to capture wireless traffic on the xo:
>
> pre-req:
>
> yum install tcpdump
> killall NetworkManager
>
> then:
>
> echo $TRAFFIC_MASK > /sys/class/net/msh0/device/libertas_rtap
> ifconfig rtap0 up
> tcpdump -i rtap0 -w capture.dump
>
> TRAFFIC_MASK bits:
>
> Data frames: 0x1
> Mgmt frames but beacons: 0x2
> Beacons: 0x4
>
> You can then open capture.dump with wireshark.  To interpret mesh
> traffic correctly, you will want to compile wireshark with this patch:
>
> https://cozybit1.dnsalias.org/~javier/patches/wireshark-0.99.5-fw-5.220.11-support.patch
>
> Let me know if you have any questions.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Javier
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Re: [design] Lack of built-in serial and // port ?

[Ian Daniher]

Samir,
IIRC, there *is* a serial port, but due to constraints I have not been made
aware of, It isn't exposed, instead it is buried inside the case.
Sorry I can't help more,
-- 
Ian Daniher
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype : it.daniher
irc.freenode.com: DyDisMe

On 10/23/07, Samir Saidani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have heard about the OLPC initiative a while ago, and recently
> I have decided to take a further look at this very interesting
> initiative... Here are first thoughts about it...
>
> I'm quite new to this project, and one thing that strikes me was the
> lack of built-in serial and parallel port.  Why ? When you don't have
> a lot of money, you tend to use obsolete technology which are cheaper
> than the newer one, like parallel printers, serial modem, serial mouse,
> parallel scanner, etc ... This obsolete technology are easily available
> on poor countries, because it's easy for an non profit organization
> to send this kind of technology that almost nobody wants anymore (at
> least the enterprises, and the schools of rich countries update quite
> often their hardware and throw the old one to the garbage or donate it
> to a NPO).
>
> So you can have the old tech for free, because they often end into the
> gargage while they are still working great. And this is not a theory,
> we have founded here in France a npo which locally is working to give
> One Computer Per Child for 0 $. We have already a lot of computers,
> and we are slowing down the process to avoid a computer hardware
> overload... Recycling is an ecologic approach to the environment, and it
> seems that it is a concern of the whole OLPC initiative. Recycling allows
> you to do things by yourself with little money (or none at all). I know
> that there is a serial/USB interface, but I'm not sure that it would be
> as easy to use as built-in ports (possibility to lost it, unable to do it
> by yourself due to the complex USB electronics component...). So when you
> consider the target audience (poor countries, rural zone, poor people),
> I think this is a design mistake. Or at least it's reducing a lot the
> possibility of hacking and recycling obsolete hardware lying around.
>
> Maybe and probably do you have already talk about this matter ?
>
> Thanks !
> Samir
> ___
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Re: [design] Lack of built-in serial and // port ?

[Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero]

Hi all,

The serial port in the XO is designed for low level debugging,

please see

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Serial_adapters.

Cheers!
On 10/23/07, Ian Daniher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Samir,
> IIRC, there *is* a serial port, but due to constraints I have not been
> made aware of, It isn't exposed, instead it is buried inside the case.
> Sorry I can't help more,
> --
> Ian Daniher
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Skype : it.daniher
> irc.freenode.com: DyDisMe
>
> On 10/23/07, Samir Saidani < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have heard about the OLPC initiative a while ago, and recently
> > I have decided to take a further look at this very interesting
> > initiative... Here are first thoughts about it...
> >
> > I'm quite new to this project, and one thing that strikes me was the
> > lack of built-in serial and parallel port.  Why ? When you don't have
> > a lot of money, you tend to use obsolete technology which are cheaper
> > than the newer one, like parallel printers, serial modem, serial mouse,
> > parallel scanner, etc ... This obsolete technology are easily available
> > on poor countries, because it's easy for an non profit organization
> > to send this kind of technology that almost nobody wants anymore (at
> > least the enterprises, and the schools of rich countries update quite
> > often their hardware and throw the old one to the garbage or donate it
> > to a NPO).
> >
> > So you can have the old tech for free, because they often end into the
> > gargage while they are still working great. And this is not a theory,
> > we have founded here in France a npo which locally is working to give
> > One Computer Per Child for 0 $. We have already a lot of computers,
> > and we are slowing down the process to avoid a computer hardware
> > overload... Recycling is an ecologic approach to the environment, and it
> >
> > seems that it is a concern of the whole OLPC initiative. Recycling
> > allows
> > you to do things by yourself with little money (or none at all). I know
> > that there is a serial/USB interface, but I'm not sure that it would be
> > as easy to use as built-in ports (possibility to lost it, unable to do
> > it
> > by yourself due to the complex USB electronics component...). So when
> > you
> > consider the target audience (poor countries, rural zone, poor people),
> > I think this is a design mistake. Or at least it's reducing a lot the
> > possibility of hacking and recycling obsolete hardware lying around.
> >
> > Maybe and probably do you have already talk about this matter ?
> >
> > Thanks !
> > Samir
> > ___
> > Design mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/design
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>


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Re: [design] Lack of built-in serial and // port ?

[Mitch Bradley]

Ian Daniher wrote:
> Samir,
> IIRC, there *is* a serial port, but due to constraints I have not been 
> made aware of, It isn't exposed, instead it is buried inside the case.
One primary constraint is that there is absolutely no room left for 
other connectors to come out.

Yes, I know there are places where it looks like it might be possible, 
but there are non-obvious constraints having to do with board layout and 
mechanical design and securing against dust and water.

Another answer is that, while it might seem that obsolete technology is 
cheap because you can get it used, very often the real cost is very high 
because it breaks down, can't be repaired, consumables (ink, etc) aren't 
available, etc.  The support cost for random collections of old stuff 
can be enormous.

> Sorry I can't help more,
> -- 
> Ian Daniher
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Skype : it.daniher
> irc.freenode.com : DyDisMe
>
> On 10/23/07, *Samir Saidani* < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have heard about the OLPC initiative a while ago, and recently
> I have decided to take a further look at this very interesting
> initiative... Here are first thoughts about it...
>
> I'm quite new to this project, and one thing that strikes me was the
> lack of built-in serial and parallel port.  Why ? When you don't have
> a lot of money, you tend to use obsolete technology which are cheaper
> than the newer one, like parallel printers, serial modem, serial
> mouse,
> parallel scanner, etc ... This obsolete technology are easily
> available
> on poor countries, because it's easy for an non profit organization
> to send this kind of technology that almost nobody wants anymore (at
> least the enterprises, and the schools of rich countries update quite
> often their hardware and throw the old one to the garbage or donate it
> to a NPO).
>
> So you can have the old tech for free, because they often end into the
> gargage while they are still working great. And this is not a theory,
> we have founded here in France a npo which locally is working to give
> One Computer Per Child for 0 $. We have already a lot of computers,
> and we are slowing down the process to avoid a computer hardware
> overload... Recycling is an ecologic approach to the environment,
> and it
> seems that it is a concern of the whole OLPC initiative. Recycling
> allows
> you to do things by yourself with little money (or none at all). I
> know
> that there is a serial/USB interface, but I'm not sure that it
> would be
> as easy to use as built-in ports (possibility to lost it, unable
> to do it
> by yourself due to the complex USB electronics component...). So
> when you
> consider the target audience (poor countries, rural zone, poor
> people),
> I think this is a design mistake. Or at least it's reducing a lot the
> possibility of hacking and recycling obsolete hardware lying around.
>
> Maybe and probably do you have already talk about this matter ?
>
> Thanks !
> Samir
> ___
> Design mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/design
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> ___
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Re: [design] Lack of built-in serial and // port ?

[Mike C. Fletcher]

Ian Daniher wrote:
> On 10/23/07, *Samir Saidani* < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have heard about the OLPC initiative a while ago, and recently
> I have decided to take a further look at this very interesting
> initiative... Here are first thoughts about it...
>
> I'm quite new to this project, and one thing that strikes me was the
> lack of built-in serial and parallel port.  Why ? When you don't have
> a lot of money, you tend to use obsolete technology which are cheaper
> than the newer one, like parallel printers, serial modem, serial
> mouse,
> parallel scanner, etc ... This obsolete technology are easily
> available
> on poor countries, because it's easy for an non profit organization
> to send this kind of technology that almost nobody wants anymore (at
> least the enterprises, and the schools of rich countries update quite
> often their hardware and throw the old one to the garbage or donate it
> to a NPO).
>
If I read correctly we have a serial port on the XSX school server, so a 
school-wide (or 1/3 of school, or whatever) serial service would be 
possible for any serial-port-using technology (e.g. modems and the like).

Shipping old serial mice to the children doesn't really sound like it 
would be all that useful, USB mice are already well into the replacement 
cycle in most areas, so they'd be just as easy to source in large 
quantities if you wanted to send them.  Shipping costs for thousands of 
ancient ball-based serial mice are probably going to dwarf the costs of 
buying a few thousand new usb "laser" mice from China and having them 
shipped directly to the country.

There is a parallel-port header on the XSX boards, but no parallel port 
in the back-plane of the server.  Parallel ports/wires are reasonably 
cheap (pretty much free if you have a lot of old machines around, I 
think I have 5 or 6 sitting unused in my closet).  You could easily pack 
a few with each printer to allow schools to connect a printer up for 
each school server.  I'm not sure how useful it would be in the areas 
without power sources, paper, access to toner/ink and the like (keeping 
in mind that most printers require insanely expensive ink/toner these 
days), but more urban areas with higher incomes might find them usable.

I haven't actually seen a parallel scanner myself, though I've seen SCSI 
and USB quite lot.  SCSI probably won't happen without some serious 
work.  USB would work if the manufacturer has a Linux driver, but that's 
a pretty hit-or-miss thing from my understanding.  I'd be tempted to 
provide a "How to Convert an XO to a page scanner" document before 
trying to ship and connect up such devices.
>
> So you can have the old tech for free, because they often end into the
> gargage while they are still working great. And this is not a theory,
> we have founded here in France a npo which locally is working to give
> One Computer Per Child for 0 $.
>
There's actually quite a few similar operations world-wide.

One thing we'll need to do at some point is to look at how to integrate 
those projects into the OLPC project.  We are an educational project, 
not a laptop project, and we need to get the various educational 
initiatives to take advantage of the massive amounts of development work 
and content collection that's being done for the OLPC.

That said, most such projects take a "lab" approach, rather than a "one 
per child" approach.  The reasons for that are many, but lack of power 
in homes, need for security to prevent theft, and need to use wired 
networking are the most common ones I've heard.  Regular laptops are too 
valuable to hand to kids in most areas (they'd be subject to theft 
almost immediately), so normally kids need to go to a "lab" to use the 
computer.

There are advantages and disadvantages to the lab approach, I won't go 
into them here, suffice it that as a text-book reader (one of the OLPC's 
major use-cases), a lab-based machine is reasonably difficult to use.
>
> We have already a lot of computers,
> and we are slowing down the process to avoid a computer hardware
> overload... Recycling is an ecologic approach to the environment,
> and it
> seems that it is a concern of the whole OLPC initiative. Recycling
> allows
> you to do things by yourself with little money (or none at all). I
> know
> that there is a serial/USB interface, but I'm not sure that it
> would be
> as easy to use as built-in ports (possibility to lost it, unable
> to do it
> by yourself due to the complex USB electronics component...). 
>
"Recycling" (reusing) old technology is not without some significant 
hurdles:

* pollution in the recipient countries (most old machines (indeed,
  even most new ones) are chock full of poisonous chemicals that
  leech into the ground water and trigger nasty medical conditions)
* po

Re: new FRS blocker 4418 - no sound in tamtam

[Walter Bender]

FYI, sound doesn't work for lots of activities on joyride-81 (pippy
for example). I doubt the problem is TamTam specific. Note that the
microphone is on (or at least the LED indicator) by default. This
suggests that perhaps alsa is not being initialized properly in the
build.

-walter

On 10/23/07, Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Jean,
> We are finished with Trial-3 branch. I need to let cscott send out the
> details of the new build system since I'm not very familiar with. For the
> next few days I'll assume issues like this bug (sound not working) are
> probably caused by something in the build process. So changing owner to jg
> or cscott is appropriate.
>
> Thanks,
> Kim
>
>
> On 10/23/07, Jean Piché <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> > We develop almost entirely on the machine itself or in jhbuild. What does
> the joyride build entail and why would TamTam fail in it? Does sound work
> otherwise?  Does csound work otherwise?
> >
> >
> > A wiki search on joyride brings up almost no information.
> >
> >
> > jp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 23-Oct-07, at 3:45 PM, Kim Quirk wrote:
> >
> > Latest joyride build, 81.
> >
> > Also, I recommend putting notes in the Test Group Release Notes page to
> help others decide whether they want to load a particular build.:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_Group_Release_Notes
> >
> > ___
> > Devel mailing list
> > Devel@lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>
>


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Re: new FRS blocker 4418 - no sound in tamtam

[Andres Salomon]

I've noticed this as well; note that the MIC LED comes on *after* X
starts, while sugar is being initialized.  We also see the following
message on the console:

[   91.166430] snd-malloc: invalid device type
0

I'm not sure what userspace is doing yet to trigger that, but if the
sugar folks could isolate it, that'd be helpful.  Strace FTW?


On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:26:27 -0400 "Walter Bender"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> FYI, sound doesn't work for lots of activities on joyride-81 (pippy
> for example). I doubt the problem is TamTam specific. Note that the
> microphone is on (or at least the LED indicator) by default. This
> suggests that perhaps alsa is not being initialized properly in the
> build.
> 
> -walter
> 
> On 10/23/07, Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi Jean,
> > We are finished with Trial-3 branch. I need to let cscott send out
> > the details of the new build system since I'm not very familiar
> > with. For the next few days I'll assume issues like this bug (sound
> > not working) are probably caused by something in the build process.
> > So changing owner to jg or cscott is appropriate.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kim
> >
> >
> > On 10/23/07, Jean Piché <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > >
> > > We develop almost entirely on the machine itself or in jhbuild.
> > > What does
> > the joyride build entail and why would TamTam fail in it? Does
> > sound work otherwise?  Does csound work otherwise?
> > >
> > >
> > > A wiki search on joyride brings up almost no information.
> > >
> > >
> > > jp
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 23-Oct-07, at 3:45 PM, Kim Quirk wrote:
> > >
> > > Latest joyride build, 81.
> > >
> > > Also, I recommend putting notes in the Test Group Release Notes
> > > page to
> > help others decide whether they want to load a particular build.:
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_Group_Release_Notes
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Devel mailing list
> > > Devel@lists.laptop.org
> > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Devel mailing list
> > Devel@lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Software status meeting on IRC (today, 21:00 EDT Boston)

[Bernardo Innocenti]

Hi,

please join un on #olpc-meeting tonight

Bug list: http://ln-s.net/15Oz

We've put an empty schedule here (please fill-in):
 
  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Status_meeting

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New build 619

[Build Announcer Script]

Build 619 ChangeLog
Base OS:
- kernel - 2.6.22 - 20071009.1.olpc.ec54a65da6de043
* workaround for trac #4184, fix for trac #4392
- olpcrd - 0.33
* more robust activation from school server
- bootanim - 0.12
* latest UL warning screen from pentagram

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Re: new FRS blocker 4418 - no sound in tamtam

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On 10/24/07, Andres Salomon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've noticed this as well; note that the MIC LED comes on *after* X
> starts, while sugar is being initialized.  We also see the following
> message on the console:
>
> [   91.166430] snd-malloc: invalid device type
> 0
>
> I'm not sure what userspace is doing yet to trigger that, but if the
> sugar folks could isolate it, that'd be helpful.  Strace FTW?

I suspect the sugar startup sound because it went on git master and
not on the trial-3 branch. I'm unable to test on a XO right now but it
should be easy to verify by deleting the sound file:
/usr/share/sugar/data/startup.flac

Marco
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Re: new FRS blocker 4418 - no sound in tamtam

[Andres Salomon]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 02:54:56 +0200
"Marco Pesenti Gritti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 10/24/07, Andres Salomon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I've noticed this as well; note that the MIC LED comes on *after* X
> > starts, while sugar is being initialized.  We also see the following
> > message on the console:
> >
> > [   91.166430] snd-malloc: invalid device type
> > 0
> >
> > I'm not sure what userspace is doing yet to trigger that, but if the
> > sugar folks could isolate it, that'd be helpful.  Strace FTW?
> 
> I suspect the sugar startup sound because it went on git master and
> not on the trial-3 branch. I'm unable to test on a XO right now but it
> should be easy to verify by deleting the sound file:
> /usr/share/sugar/data/startup.flac
> 
> Marco


Well, the sugar startup sound is what's triggering it (moving
startup.flac out of the way causes the MIC LED to not come on)..
However, tamtam still appears to be broken (and the MIC LED comes on
when we start tamtam).
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Re: new FRS blocker 4418 - no sound in tamtam

[Walter Bender]

Is pippy able to play sounds?

-walter

On 10/23/07, Andres Salomon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 02:54:56 +0200
> "Marco Pesenti Gritti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On 10/24/07, Andres Salomon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I've noticed this as well; note that the MIC LED comes on *after* X
> > > starts, while sugar is being initialized.  We also see the following
> > > message on the console:
> > >
> > > [   91.166430] snd-malloc: invalid device type
> > > 0
> > >
> > > I'm not sure what userspace is doing yet to trigger that, but if the
> > > sugar folks could isolate it, that'd be helpful.  Strace FTW?
> >
> > I suspect the sugar startup sound because it went on git master and
> > not on the trial-3 branch. I'm unable to test on a XO right now but it
> > should be easy to verify by deleting the sound file:
> > /usr/share/sugar/data/startup.flac
> >
> > Marco
>
>
> Well, the sugar startup sound is what's triggering it (moving
> startup.flac out of the way causes the MIC LED to not come on)..
> However, tamtam still appears to be broken (and the MIC LED comes on
> when we start tamtam).
>


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Re: new FRS blocker 4418 - no sound in tamtam

[Jean Piché]

On 23-Oct-07, at 10:23 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

> Is pippy able to play sounds?
>


Most assuredly. Olivier Belanger has written a few csound functions  
directly accessible in pippy.

j




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Re: [design] Lack of built-in serial and // port ?

[John Watlington]

Samir,
 You are ignoring the economics of the situation.
A full USB/serial interface now costs about the same as the
voltage level shifter necessary to interface to RS-232, due to
economies of scale.

OLPC is not in the business of shipping old, obsolete, computer
equipment to the developing world.   We are in the business of
providing them with a high volume, reasonable quality, low cost
computing platform for education.   And USB is the low cost serial
interface for anything being built today.

I love the old RS-232 interface as much as anyone out there, but
it is time to declare it obsolete.   If you want to use some old piece
of RS-232 equipment, a serial cable with a USB adapter built in is
approaching the price of a plain serial cable, 'cause no one is
buying plain serial cables anymore.

John

On Oct 23, 2007, at 6:37 PM, Ian Daniher wrote:

> Samir,
> IIRC, there *is* a serial port, but due to constraints I have not  
> been made aware of, It isn't exposed, instead it is buried inside  
> the case.
> Sorry I can't help more,
> -- 
> Ian Daniher
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Skype : it.daniher
> irc.freenode.com: DyDisMe
>
> On 10/23/07, Samir Saidani < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi,
>
> I have heard about the OLPC initiative a while ago, and recently
> I have decided to take a further look at this very interesting
> initiative... Here are first thoughts about it...
>
> I'm quite new to this project, and one thing that strikes me was the
> lack of built-in serial and parallel port.  Why ? When you don't have
> a lot of money, you tend to use obsolete technology which are cheaper
> than the newer one, like parallel printers, serial modem, serial  
> mouse,
> parallel scanner, etc ... This obsolete technology are easily  
> available
> on poor countries, because it's easy for an non profit organization
> to send this kind of technology that almost nobody wants anymore (at
> least the enterprises, and the schools of rich countries update quite
> often their hardware and throw the old one to the garbage or donate it
> to a NPO).
>
> So you can have the old tech for free, because they often end into the
> gargage while they are still working great. And this is not a theory,
> we have founded here in France a npo which locally is working to give
> One Computer Per Child for 0 $. We have already a lot of computers,
> and we are slowing down the process to avoid a computer hardware
> overload... Recycling is an ecologic approach to the environment,  
> and it
> seems that it is a concern of the whole OLPC initiative. Recycling  
> allows
> you to do things by yourself with little money (or none at all). I  
> know
> that there is a serial/USB interface, but I'm not sure that it  
> would be
> as easy to use as built-in ports (possibility to lost it, unable to  
> do it
> by yourself due to the complex USB electronics component...). So  
> when you
> consider the target audience (poor countries, rural zone, poor  
> people),
> I think this is a design mistake. Or at least it's reducing a lot the
> possibility of hacking and recycling obsolete hardware lying around.
>
> Maybe and probably do you have already talk about this matter ?
>
> Thanks !
> Samir
> ___
> Design mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/design
>
>
>
>
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