Re: New joyride build 1452

[Morgan Collett]

On Dec 20, 2007 5:15 AM, Build Announcer Script <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1452/
>
> -Chat-31.xo
> +Chat-32.xo




> --- Chat-32 ---
>  * Pippy-ize Chat, so that 'view source' lets you edit and regenerate
>the Chat activity in Pippy.


Uh, where did this come from? It's not in git... Please send me a patch. Is
this a post Update.1 feature?

Morgan
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Re: New joyride build 1452

[Morgan Collett]

>
> --- Chat-32 ---
> >  * Pippy-ize Chat, so that 'view source' lets you edit and regenerate
> >the Chat activity in Pippy.
>
>
> Uh, where did this come from? It's not in git... Please send me a patch.
> Is this a post Update.1 feature?
>

Ah, found it - #5542
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New joyride build 1453

[Build Announcer Script]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1453/

-rainbow.noarch 0:0.7.4-1.olpc2
+rainbow.noarch 0:0.7.5-1.olpc2

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Re: Tickets triaging

[Jim Gettys]

On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 11:57 +0100, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> there is some disagreement in trac about how bugs triaging should
> work. See for example:
> 
> http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/5538#comment:5
> 
> My understanding is that developers and testers can propose tickets
> using the Update.1? keyword but it's up to Jim and Kim to actually
> triage the ticket to a certain milestone. Can someone please
> confirm/correct?

Yes, this is correct.

If you want/need an instant answer, please send me mail and/or catch me
on IRC.
   - Jim

> 
> Thanks,
> Marco
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Re: New joyride build 1452

[Bernardo Innocenti]

Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007, Build Announcer Script wrote:
> 
>> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1452/
>>
>> -Chat-31.xo
>> +Chat-32.xo
>> +libpcap.i386 14:0.9.7-1.fc7
>> -olpc-utils.i386 0:0.53-1.olpc2
>> +olpc-utils.i386 0:0.59-1.olpc2
>> +sudo.i386 0:1.6.8p12-14.fc7
>> +tcpdump.i386 14:3.9.7-1.fc7
> 
> I can just picture the eight year old dissassembling on-wire network 
> protocols by watching the streams in tcpdump.

It's a dependency dragged in by olpc-utils, for the sake of the
olpc-netcapture.

> By the time they're twelve, they'll See the Matrix.

:-)

I also disapprove adding bulky packages to our builds just for sake of
debugging.  In this case, this is said to be only temporary until we
have shaken the most serious networking problems.

There is still plenty of opportunity for debloating our images, and
I'm willing to pursue it, but it is not clear if this is a valued goal.

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Kernel build instructions

[Bernardo Innocenti]

Andres,

these two pages look very similar:

  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Kernel
  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Rebuilding_OLPC_kernel

So I tagged them for merging.

Or maybe they should just be split in multiple thematic pages:
installing the kernel RPM, rebuilding the kernel RPM, rebuilding
from sources, and so on.

I'd let you decide what's best.

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Re: Tickets triaging

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Dec 19, 2007 9:50 AM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 11:57 +0100, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> > My understanding is that developers and testers can propose tickets
> > using the Update.1? keyword but it's up to Jim and Kim to actually
> > triage the ticket to a certain milestone. Can someone please
> > confirm/correct?
>
> Yes, this is correct.
>
> If you want/need an instant answer, please send me mail and/or catch me
> on IRC.

Jim, could you please keep http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Update.1_process
up to date with the current process?
 --scott

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Laptop debug

[Gerard J. Cerchio]

Hi All,

Do the XO's ship with the serial/USB debug adapter?

If not, how do I get one?

-Gerard


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Hippo Canvas

[Gerard J. Cerchio]

Sorry to say that I am having a terrifically hard time trying to use the 
hippo canvas.

I cannot find any documentation in the source code package.

The REAMDE is blank.

The NEWS is blank.

It appears that all comments are stripped out of the source code.

There are no references to any previous programming models.

Yes I am whining! I have been stuck on trying to get my Go board square 
for a week now.

What is a programmer to do?

-Gerard
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Re: Laptop debug

[Gerard J. Cerchio]

Rafael, I saw that page, you mean if I want one I build it from the PDF's??

Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2007 12:16 PM, Gerard J. Cerchio <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Do the XO's ship with the serial/USB debug adapter?
>
>
> no
>
>
> If not, how do I get one?
>
>
> you can see this for reference.
>  
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Serial_adapters
>
> HTH 
>
>
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

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Re: Hippo Canvas

[Benjamin M. Schwartz]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Gerard J. Cerchio wrote:
> Sorry to say that I am having a terrifically hard time trying to use the 
> hippo canvas.

hippocanvas is sort of deprecated.  Initially, hippocanvas was to be the basic
building block for all Activities, but it proved too immature to be used
everywhere.  Instead activity developers are encouraged to use the standard GTK
components.  However, hippocanvas does provide some features that are difficult
or impossible with standard GTK, as used by Chat and a few other Sugar elements.
 Therefore, it is included in the build.

You should only use hippocanvas if you know that what you are doing would be
more difficult without it.

For your case, I recommend plain Cairo instead.

- --Ben
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFHaqxEUJT6e6HFtqQRAjSTAJ9MM+pum4Vrc3JlAPltiElTl5UzuwCfYAw9
flH6iLtdu4N+xw4ow6jsyL4=
=tylP
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: Hippo Canvas

[Gerard J. Cerchio]

Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Gerard J. Cerchio wrote:
>   
>> Sorry to say that I am having a terrifically hard time trying to use the 
>> hippo canvas.
>> 
>
> hippocanvas is sort of deprecated.  Initially, hippocanvas was to be the basic
> building block for all Activities, but it proved too immature to be used
> everywhere.  Instead activity developers are encouraged to use the standard 
> GTK
> components.  However, hippocanvas does provide some features that are 
> difficult
> or impossible with standard GTK, as used by Chat and a few other Sugar 
> elements.
>  Therefore, it is included in the build.
>
> You should only use hippocanvas if you know that what you are doing would be
> more difficult without it.
>
> For your case, I recommend plain Cairo instead.
>
> - --Ben
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFHaqxEUJT6e6HFtqQRAjSTAJ9MM+pum4Vrc3JlAPltiElTl5UzuwCfYAw9
> flH6iLtdu4N+xw4ow6jsyL4=
> =tylP
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
>   
So now marked in the Wiki...
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Re: [sugar] Hippo Canvas

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On Dec 20, 2007 7:16 PM, Gonzalo Odiard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Its planned adopt goocanvas or another canvas?

I want to stick with upstream here (gtk). The main reason gtk doesn't
ship a canvas is that there are not really good candidates. (goocanvas
is basically unmaintained, for example). When that changes we will
surely adopt one.

Marco
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Browse in GS

[Rob Logan]

Got my GOGO yesterday. The pdf viewer does an outstanding
job imaging http://rob.com/airports/afd/nc_212_25OCT2007.pdf
but if I pre-process and pre-size it into 8 grays in a
fixed colormap via gs | pnmcut | ppmquant -map  8gray | pnmtopng
http://rob.com/airports/afd/nc_212_25OCT2007.png
or the larger 16 grays in a 4bit grayscale via
gs | pnmcut | ppmquant -map 16gray | pnmtopng
http://rob.com/airports/afd/nc_212_25OCT2007gs.png
and view the result in the browser it expands the image
so I can't use all 1200x900 like the pdf viewer can.

How do I browse with the DCON in grayscale or make
images that the DCON or browser won't expand?

Rob

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Re: Laptop debug

[Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero]

I guess you can try with an standard serial/usb  adapter ..and play along.
:).

On Dec 20, 2007 12:50 PM, Gerard J. Cerchio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Rafael, I saw that page, you mean if I want one I build it from the
> PDF's??
>
> Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Dec 20, 2007 12:16 PM, Gerard J. Cerchio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Do the XO's ship with the serial/USB debug adapter?
> >
> >
> > no
> >
> >
> > If not, how do I get one?
> >
> >
> > you can see this for reference.
> >
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Serial_adapters
> >
> > HTH
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Devel mailing list
> > Devel@lists.laptop.org 
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero
> > One Laptop Per Child
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>


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Re: New joyride build 1452

[Marcus Leech]

Bernardo Innocenti wrote:
> :-)
>
> I also disapprove adding bulky packages to our builds just for sake of
> debugging.  In this case, this is said to be only temporary until we
> have shaken the most serious networking problems.
>
> There is still plenty of opportunity for debloating our images, and
> I'm willing to pursue it, but it is not clear if this is a valued goal.
>
>   
While I'm sympathetic to removing "bulk", I'm someone who developed his
first networking
  stack at the age of 16 or 17  around 1980.  I think we shouldn't rush
too hastily in making
  assumptions about what 12-year-old budding software genii will
actually need.

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Re: New joyride build 1452

[C. Scott Ananian]

> Bernardo Innocenti wrote:
> > I also disapprove adding bulky packages to our builds just for sake of
> > debugging.  In this case, this is said to be only temporary until we
> > have shaken the most serious networking problems.

As I've said before: normally you can say, "just download the
debugging tools if you have problems", but there's a strong argument
that *networking debugging* tools better be pre-installed on the
laptop.
  --scott

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Status of SVG rendering on the XO

[Jake B]

Hello All,
I am expecting to get my XO laptop in the mail any day now. I was hoping
someone could tell me, does the XO ship with with an SVG renderer? I'm
wondering if it would be possible to develop rich apps in SVG and ECMAscript
for deployment on the XO.
I remember that there used to be an entry on SVG on the wiki, but it appears
to have been taken down...
Please let me know. Thanks.

Jake
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Re: Status of SVG rendering on the XO

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

We ship xulrunner on the builds, I'm not sure what kind of performance
we get out of SVG right now, though.

Marco


On Dec 20, 2007 9:06 PM, Jake B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello All,
> I am expecting to get my XO laptop in the mail any day now. I was hoping
> someone could tell me, does the XO ship with with an SVG renderer? I'm
> wondering if it would be possible to develop rich apps in SVG and ECMAscript
> for deployment on the XO.
> I remember that there used to be an entry on SVG on the wiki, but it appears
> to have been taken down...
> Please let me know. Thanks.
>
> Jake
>
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Re: Status of SVG rendering on the XO

[Eben Eliason]

I've seen some examples of this working, though none of them complex
enough to really test performance. The core problem when I used it was
that the coordinate system for the mouse events didn't map correctly
to the display, due to the browsers scaling algorithm.  I'm not sure
in what timeframe that will be fixed (has it already?).

- Eben


On Dec 20, 2007 3:26 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We ship xulrunner on the builds, I'm not sure what kind of performance
> we get out of SVG right now, though.
>
> Marco
>
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2007 9:06 PM, Jake B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > I am expecting to get my XO laptop in the mail any day now. I was hoping
> > someone could tell me, does the XO ship with with an SVG renderer? I'm
> > wondering if it would be possible to develop rich apps in SVG and ECMAscript
> > for deployment on the XO.
> > I remember that there used to be an entry on SVG on the wiki, but it appears
> > to have been taken down...
> > Please let me know. Thanks.
> >
> > Jake
> >
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Re: Status of SVG rendering on the XO

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On Dec 20, 2007 9:30 PM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've seen some examples of this working, though none of them complex
> enough to really test performance. The core problem when I used it was
> that the coordinate system for the mouse events didn't map correctly
> to the display, due to the browsers scaling algorithm.  I'm not sure
> in what timeframe that will be fixed (has it already?).

Depends what you mean with fixing it. The scaling is intentional,
there might be ways for web developers to disable it though.

Marco
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Re: Status of SVG rendering on the XO

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On Dec 20, 2007 9:31 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Dec 20, 2007 9:30 PM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I've seen some examples of this working, though none of them complex
> > enough to really test performance. The core problem when I used it was
> > that the coordinate system for the mouse events didn't map correctly
> > to the display, due to the browsers scaling algorithm.  I'm not sure
> > in what timeframe that will be fixed (has it already?).
>
> Depends what you mean with fixing it. The scaling is intentional,
> there might be ways for web developers to disable it though.

Argh, I didn't read your email fully... Not sure if it's fixed,
1.9beta1 has a lot improvements. If it's still broken a ticket with a
testcase would be useful.

Marco
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Re: Status of SVG rendering on the XO

[Eben Eliason]

On Dec 20, 2007 3:31 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Dec 20, 2007 9:30 PM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I've seen some examples of this working, though none of them complex
> > enough to really test performance. The core problem when I used it was
> > that the coordinate system for the mouse events didn't map correctly
> > to the display, due to the browsers scaling algorithm.  I'm not sure
> > in what timeframe that will be fixed (has it already?).
>
> Depends what you mean with fixing it. The scaling is intentional,
> there might be ways for web developers to disable it though.

I don't want to undo the scaling; I want to translate the events
accordingly so that everything remains in sync.

- Eben
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Re: DCON improvements...

[Jim Gettys]

Thanks for a great explanation.
 - Jim

On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 13:26 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote:
> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:22 -0500, David Woodhouse wrote:
> > If we should design a next generation of DCON chip, are there any
> > improvements we should make to it?
> > 
> > Adam, do I recall correctly that you had problems hooking it up to X for
> > idle detection? Anything we could do to make that better?
> 
> I filed a bug about this with some observations:
> 
> http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/1671
> 
> It's not so much that detecting idle is hard in X, that's fairly easy.
> The way DCON1 works, once I notice that I'm idle, I have to keep doing
> stuff for another 1+e frame times to load a frame into the DCON and then
> switch to it.  Worse, I can't abort that operation midway through, once
> you tell DCON to load a frame it's going to do it or die trying.
> 
> Coming back out from DCON to GPU control is a timing disaster because
> the DCON silicon is _broken_, or was last time I looked at it anyway and
> I doubt it's changed.  The spec says the DCON should signal when it's in
> the vertical blank period by raising a line from the start of vertical
> front porch to the end of vertical sync; this is kind of odd, but works.
> But the silicon instead asserts the line during vertical back porch,
> which means you're already past the vsync pulse and you can't switch
> back to GPU control once you get that signal because the panel is
> strobing back up to the top of scanout.
> 
> I don't remember what we ended up implementing to work around this, but
> I'm fairly sure it involved a) the cli instruction, b) waiting at least
> another 1+e frames before finishing the switch.  50Hz refresh rate means
> 20ms frames, so the ping-pong latency is 40ms to get into the DCON and
> then back out.  Don't give up latency like that, you never get it back.
> 
> All of this timing dance made some sort of sense at the time because we
> were designing for the GX, which can't accept an external timing source
> for the graphics block.  LX, however, can genlock, so the right thing to
> do there would have been to slave it to the DCON's timing source.  If
> you only have one clock domain you can't drift, and you don't need to
> play stupid games trying to figure out when vsync really is.  Also, if
> you're genlocked, you can use the GPU's interrupts to handle transition
> timing, which saves you some GPIO pins.  ISTR access to DCON registers
> being really slow anyway, so anything I can do to talk to it less is a
> win.
> 
> In a spherical world, the way this would work is DCON would be
> continuously loading frames, would notice when idle has happened by
> snooping on the GPU cache or the framebuffer compression logic, and
> would handle the flip transparently.  To do that right you also need the
> DCON to be the thing that draws the cursor.  In other words, you really
> need this to be a GPU feature, not something you bolt on externally.
> But failing that, please, demand a genlockable GPU, slave it to the
> DCON's timing, and separate the DCON's "load frame" and "enter/leave
> scanout control" operations into two separate commands.
> 
> - ajax
> 
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Re: Status of SVG rendering on the XO

[Jake B]

Just to make sure I understand, do you still have problems even after using
the functions built into SVG for translating from screen coordinates to user
coordinates?
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/coords.html#NestedTransformations
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/types.html
Using getScreenCTM and such methods?

Please let me know. Thanks.

Jake

On Dec 20, 2007 3:34 PM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2007 3:31 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Dec 20, 2007 9:30 PM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I've seen some examples of this working, though none of them complex
> > > enough to really test performance. The core problem when I used it was
> > > that the coordinate system for the mouse events didn't map correctly
> > > to the display, due to the browsers scaling algorithm.  I'm not sure
> > > in what timeframe that will be fixed (has it already?).
> >
> > Depends what you mean with fixing it. The scaling is intentional,
> > there might be ways for web developers to disable it though.
>
> I don't want to undo the scaling; I want to translate the events
> accordingly so that everything remains in sync.
>
> - Eben
>
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Issue while upgrading firmware

[Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves]

Because during my last auto-upgrade (from Build 635 to 653), the
firmware was not upgraded in the process, I am trying now to do it
manually.

I have ran into a problem, though.  During the OFW "ok" prompt, I type
"flash u:\q2d07.rom", the systems reads the new firmware, but then
gives me the following message: "AC not present" and stops.  What am I
missing here?  What is AC exactly?

For reference, this is a B4 machine, and I'm upgrading from q2d03 to q2d07.

-Ivo
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Re: Issue while upgrading firmware

[elw]

> I have ran into a problem, though.  During the OFW "ok" prompt, I type 
> "flash u:\q2d07.rom", the systems reads the new firmware, but then gives 
> me the following message: "AC not present" and stops.  What am I missing 
> here?  What is AC exactly?

Alternating Current -- you really want to be plugged into a wall to 
upgrade firmware.

[Complete loss of power - what you get if your battery runs down - may 
brick a machine in the middle of its firmware update.]

--elijah
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Re: Issue while upgrading firmware

[Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves]

On 12/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alternating Current -- you really want to be plugged into a wall to
> upgrade firmware.

Ha ha, I can't believe the "AC" meant that!  And here I was thinking
it was some kind of checksum.  Sometimes we try the dangest solutions
for the simplest problems.

> [Complete loss of power - what you get if your battery runs down - may
> brick a machine in the middle of its firmware update.]

Not an issue with me. I'd never upgrade without having the battery
fully-charged, but I guess I understand the plugging requirement:
children will be the ones dealing with the machines after all.

-Ivo
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Re: Issue while upgrading firmware

[Mitch Bradley]

Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves wrote:
> On 12/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Alternating Current -- you really want to be plugged into a wall to
>> upgrade firmware.
>> 
>
> Ha ha, I can't believe the "AC" meant that!  And here I was thinking
> it was some kind of checksum.  Sometimes we try the dangest solutions
> for the simplest problems.
>
>   
>> [Complete loss of power - what you get if your battery runs down - may
>> brick a machine in the middle of its firmware update.]
>> 
>
> Not an issue with me. I'd never upgrade without having the battery
> fully-charged, but I guess I understand the plugging requirement:
> children will be the ones dealing with the machines after all.
>   

It is pretty unlikely that the battery would die during the reflashing 
process, which completes in a few seconds.  But there have been cases 
where people paniced and removed the battery right in the middle of 
reflashing.

Requiring both AC and a charged battery provides some extra safety.  You 
have be pretty quick to unplug the AC and also remove the battery during 
the window of vulnerability.  I'm not saying that it's impossible, but 
it does require enough coordinated steps that a bit of advance planning 
is needed.  Not the kind of thing you're likely to do in a panic.

> -Ivo
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Re: Issue while upgrading firmware

[Hal Murray]

> I have ran into a problem, though.  During the OFW "ok" prompt, I type
> "flash u:\q2d07.rom", the systems reads the new firmware, but then
> gives me the following message: "AC not present" and stops.  What am I
> missing here?  What is AC exactly? 

"AC" means external wall power, normally from the AC coming out of a wall 
outlet.

If you interrupt updating the firmware, your XO becomes useless.  You may see 
the term "brick" used here.  An XO with broken firmware is about as useful as 
a brick.

The firmware is checking to make sure you are likely to have enough power to 
finish.


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New joyride build 1457

[Build Announcer Script]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1457/

-util-linux.i386 0:2.13-0.54.1.fc7
+util-linux-ng.i386 0:2.13.1-0.2.olpc2

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Re: Laptop debug

[John Watlington]

No.  You can use a standard USB/RS-232 serial converter, but
you will also need a voltage translator (such as a Maxim MAX3233 ---
you used to be able to get free samples from Maxim) and a male and
female connector to connect to the board.   I'll dig up the connector
spec (Digikey carries them) and pinout and post them on the Wiki
soon.  Remind me if you are in a rush.

The debug adapters cost us around $100 to make, due to the small
quantity built.  We treasure them dearly, as we sometime need 50 or
more in a testbed!

wad

On Dec 20, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Gerard J. Cerchio wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Do the XO's ship with the serial/USB debug adapter?
>
> If not, how do I get one?
>
> -Gerard
>
>
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Re: Laptop debug

[Mitch Bradley]

As an alternative to wiring up a voltage converter chip, you can instead 
go directly to USB with a USB-to-serial chip such as a PL2303.

The "traditional" arrangement is:

  USB-to-serial dongle   -> DB9 -> serial cable -> DB9 -> 
12V-to-3.3V-voltage-translator

But inside the USB-to-serial dongle there is:

  USB-to-serial-chip -> 3.3V-to-12V-voltage-translator

So the chain:

  3.3V-to-12V-voltage-translator  -> DB9 -> serial cable -> DB9 -> 
12V-to-3.3V-voltage-translator

is essentially a complicated hardware "no-op".

There is little difference in the complexity of wiring up the 
USB-to-serial chip versus wiring up the voltage translator chip.

John Watlington wrote:
> No.  You can use a standard USB/RS-232 serial converter, but
> you will also need a voltage translator (such as a Maxim MAX3233 ---
> you used to be able to get free samples from Maxim) and a male and
> female connector to connect to the board.   I'll dig up the connector
> spec (Digikey carries them) and pinout and post them on the Wiki
> soon.  Remind me if you are in a rush.
>
> The debug adapters cost us around $100 to make, due to the small
> quantity built.  We treasure them dearly, as we sometime need 50 or
> more in a testbed!
>
> wad
>
> On Dec 20, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Gerard J. Cerchio wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Do the XO's ship with the serial/USB debug adapter?
>>
>> If not, how do I get one?
>>
>> -Gerard
>>
>>
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OLPC Game Jam -Nepal

[sulochan acharya]

The fist OLPC game jam in Nepal was successfully held on Dec 15th 2007, at
Prime
College in Kathmandu.

The purpose of the game jam was mainly to familiarize students, teachers
and enthusiasts with squeak, its history, and how it is used to develop
various applications--such as the activities developed by OLE Nepal.
With about 25 participants the event was modeled as fun learning event,
and the first of many more that we intend to have in months to come.

A detailed blog with pictures can be found at:
http://nepal.ole.org/home/?q=blog

-Sulochan
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Re: Laptop debug

[Mitch Bradley]

To add additional detail to the technique outlined below:

Here is a Digi-Key part number for an easy-to-use USB-to-serial chip: 
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=604-00043-ND

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=604-00043-ND

Here is the datasheet for the part:

http://www.ftdichip.com/Documents/DataSheets/DS_FT232R_v104.pdf

Use the schematic on page 26 of that document, except:

a) Connect VCCIO to 3V3OUT instead of to VCC (so the TXD output will be 
the right voltage for the XO serial interface)
b) Leave RTS#, CTS#, CBUS0, and CBUS3 unconnected
c) Connect RXD and TXD to the serial connector that goes to the XO

Here is a part number for an adapter that will convert the surface mount 
chip to a DIP pinout that is easier to work with:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=A735-ND

Mitch Bradley wrote:
> As an alternative to wiring up a voltage converter chip, you can instead 
> go directly to USB with a USB-to-serial chip such as a PL2303.
>
> The "traditional" arrangement is:
>
>   USB-to-serial dongle   -> DB9 -> serial cable -> DB9 -> 
> 12V-to-3.3V-voltage-translator
>
> But inside the USB-to-serial dongle there is:
>
>   USB-to-serial-chip -> 3.3V-to-12V-voltage-translator
>
> So the chain:
>
>   3.3V-to-12V-voltage-translator  -> DB9 -> serial cable -> DB9 -> 
> 12V-to-3.3V-voltage-translator
>
> is essentially a complicated hardware "no-op".
>
> There is little difference in the complexity of wiring up the 
> USB-to-serial chip versus wiring up the voltage translator chip.
>
> John Watlington wrote:
>   
>> No.  You can use a standard USB/RS-232 serial converter, but
>> you will also need a voltage translator (such as a Maxim MAX3233 ---
>> you used to be able to get free samples from Maxim) and a male and
>> female connector to connect to the board.   I'll dig up the connector
>> spec (Digikey carries them) and pinout and post them on the Wiki
>> soon.  Remind me if you are in a rush.
>>
>> The debug adapters cost us around $100 to make, due to the small
>> quantity built.  We treasure them dearly, as we sometime need 50 or
>> more in a testbed!
>>
>> wad
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Gerard J. Cerchio wrote:
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Do the XO's ship with the serial/USB debug adapter?
>>>
>>> If not, how do I get one?
>>>
>>> -Gerard
>>>
>>>
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>> 
>
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Laptop Debug

[Tom Sylla]

(sorry for the broken threading)

Building on Mitch's mail:

A good option would be to just buy one of these:
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/TTL-232R-3V3.htm

for $20:
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=TTL-232R-3V3virtualkey6262virtualkey626-DLP-TTL-232R-3V3

and wire from the little connector and its mate on the olpc to the 100
mil header on the adapter. (or remove the 100 mil socket, and solder
directly to the little connector) Pretty cheap and easy solution. You
can actually buy them without the 100 mil socket:
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DLP-TTL-232R-3V3-WEvirtualkey6262virtualkey626-DLP-TTL232R3V3WE

but they cost $4 *more*.

I have used these adapters on 3.3V-level serial ports on several 5536
platforms (the $100 adapters use the same FTDI device)

There may be similar similarly cheap adapters for other chips like the PL2303.
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Re: Laptop Debug

[Mitch Bradley]

This little module that Tom recommends is just perfect.

Tom Sylla wrote:
> (sorry for the broken threading)
>
> Building on Mitch's mail:
>
> A good option would be to just buy one of these:
> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/TTL-232R-3V3.htm
>
> for $20:
> http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=TTL-232R-3V3virtualkey6262virtualkey626-DLP-TTL-232R-3V3
>
> and wire from the little connector and its mate on the olpc to the 100
> mil header on the adapter. (or remove the 100 mil socket, and solder
> directly to the little connector) Pretty cheap and easy solution. You
> can actually buy them without the 100 mil socket:
> http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DLP-TTL-232R-3V3-WEvirtualkey6262virtualkey626-DLP-TTL232R3V3WE
>
> but they cost $4 *more*.
>
> I have used these adapters on 3.3V-level serial ports on several 5536
> platforms (the $100 adapters use the same FTDI device)
>
> There may be similar similarly cheap adapters for other chips like the PL2303.
>   

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New update.1 build 666

[Build Announcer Script]

http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/olpc/streams/update.1/build666/

-Journal-79.xo
+Journal-82.xo
-Web-79.xo
+Web-80.xo
-olpc-utils.i386 0:0.48.2-1.olpc2
+olpc-utils.i386 0:0.59-1.olpc2
-rainbow.noarch 0:0.7.4-1.olpc2
+rainbow.noarch 0:0.7.5-1.olpc2
-sugar.i386 0:0.75.4-1
+sugar.i386 0:0.75.5-1

--- Journal-82 ---
* #2545 Correctly unmount the device from the DS when it is removed. (tomeu)
* Implement ShowObject, #4909 (rwh)

--- Web-80 ---
* Update the progress of downloads less often #5449 (tomeu)

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Re: sudo, not su.

[Albert Cahalan]

Various people write:

> yes, having a root password is generaly bad, as it is what
> most attackers will try first.

With "olpc" being a well-known account, this security-by-obscurity
doesn't gain you anything.

> Yes, I think logging in directly as root is a misfeature that should
> go away.  Most of the other unix-derived platforms have been doing
> their best to kill it off or at least reduce its attractiveness...

There is no misfeature here, excepting the case where one starts
up the whole GUI as root. Sugar doesn't provide an easy way to be
run as root; it's not like some GNOME login thing.

If anything, Linux is going the other way. On a highly secure
Linux system, it is not possible to obtain full privileges unless
you log in directly on the console. You can't get full privilege
with sudo, su, or ssh. (mere "root", UID==0, won't do the job)

BTW, this is not a bad solution. Simply remove the setuid bit
from both sudo and su. To log in as root, press Alt-Ctrl-Fn-2.
As a bonus, you get rid of some setuid programs.

Blocking access to all setuid programs would be far better.
I found 17, many of which have previously had holes. You're
not thinking with a security mindset until you assume that
more holes will be found.

> Yeah ... sudo is more secure than su.

I really worry about this kind of misconception. It seems that
sudo gives people a false sense of security. That alone makes sudo
a hazard.

The XO will not be logging sudo commands to a remote system, and
won't have multiple users authorized to run such commands. There
goes the main point of having sudo. Remember that sudo comes from
the world of server administration, where multiple poorly-trusted
people (employees) will need to perform root-only tasks. With sudo
you gain some weak accountability. That doesn't help on the XO.
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Re: DCON improvements...

[Albert Cahalan]

David Woodhouse writes:

> If we should design a next generation of DCON chip, are there any
> improvements we should make to it?

Sure. Bugs #1017 and #1671 could be dealt with.

There are some really nasty color artifacts on the display.
One must never do any sort of blending operation on non-linear
video data. The swizzle convolution must be color-balanced.

To see some of the artifacts, use this test image:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Zone_plate_boys.png
(you must view it unscaled; the web browser will ruin it)
Notice the colored swirls. Notice the huge color shifts
in the color patch area. Notice the brightness changes in
the noise patches. Notice that even the lines have color.
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Re: Status of SVG rendering on the XO

[Bert Freudenberg]

On Dec 20, 2007, at 21:06 , Jake B wrote:

> Hello All,
> I am expecting to get my XO laptop in the mail any day now. I was  
> hoping someone could tell me, does the XO ship with with an SVG  
> renderer? I'm wondering if it would be possible to develop rich  
> apps in SVG and ECMAscript for deployment on the XO.
> I remember that there used to be an entry on SVG on the wiki, but  
> it appears to have been taken down...
> Please let me know. Thanks.


It works - but depending on the complexity of your app it gets rather  
slow.

For example, even Lively Kernel worked, which is a full in-browser  
application development environment:

http://research.sun.com/projects/lively/

- Bert -


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Re: Laptop debug

[Richard A. Smith]

John Watlington wrote:


> The debug adapters cost us around $100 to make, due to the small
> quantity built.  We treasure them dearly, as we sometime need 50 or
> more in a testbed!

With the NRE they were $49/per.  A future order of Qty 200 would be 
$38/per.  If we dropped the extra ttl<->rs-232 hardware and only did 
ttl<->usb then they would be a bit cheaper but not much.  Quanta did the 
cables for us though so we would have to order some of them.  Which 
would probably be a few $$ extra.

If enough people want to get together and group buy I can arrange that 
but unless we do a min order of 200 it won't be worth it.

-- 
Richard Smith  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
One Laptop Per Child
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zRe: New joyride build 1452

[Bernardo Innocenti]

On 12/20/07 14:56, Marcus Leech wrote:

> While I'm sympathetic to removing "bulk", I'm someone who developed his
> first networking stack at the age of 16 or 17  around 1980.  I think we
> shouldn't rush too hastily in making assumptions about what 12-year-old
> budding software genii will actually need.

As much as I sympathize with geeky kids, I think we shouldn't
penalize everybody by carrying tons of debugging tools.
If they are smart enough to use these things, one would expect
them to be able to deal with yum.

Regarding the specific case of network debugging tools, C.Scott
certainly has a point :-)

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Re: Issue while upgrading firmware

[Richard A. Smith]

Mitch Bradley wrote:

> It is pretty unlikely that the battery would die during the reflashing 
> process, which completes in a few seconds.  But there have been cases 
> where people paniced and removed the battery right in the middle of 
> reflashing.

During one of the many NiMh EC bugs sprees. I bricked a laptop because I 
plugged in what appeared to be a charged battery (but wasn't) and the 
External power (AC as we call it) adapter was pulugged into a strip that 
was not powered.

And considering the shipping model it may not be as unlikely as you 
think.  The EC does not do well with shipping self-discharge since the 
SOC and the ACR values do not change yet the battery loses charge.  The 
EC eventually corrects but that won't happen until the voltage goes 
unexpectedly out of whack.  The V curve of the battery when the capacity 
is low is very non-linear.

In the slow-boat shipping case where the batteries sit for months and 
then have to wait around to get transported to the remote areas I can 
totally envision there being just enough power to get you started and 
then die during re-flash.   Murphy agrees.

Thats why we require battery and ext power.

-- 
Richard Smith  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
One Laptop Per Child
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