Re: uucp for sneakernet (was Re: Emulating the School...]
Fidonet??!!! You have put tears in my eyes... I was 20 years old, It was 20 years ago... there was no internet (or UUCP nodes) in Peru... we were a bunch (only 20 people, at most) that were interested to connect to something that was outside the country... so we call (dial up)... international call to some phones located in the U.S. to send our request... ah! those times... great times! (first time we connect we hire a big screen and project the connection so all can see the connection... crazies, we were crazy kids! ... well, its gone!) Since I am mounting this small lab to replicate a "XO network" with access to "School Server" then I will have to add one more computer (a windows ones) to test the "sneaker-networking" (well... we will walk 3 meters only! but it is the same!)... If my memory is not wrong (we are old guys, very old!!!) I learn about Fidonet and Compuserve and BBS and similar things reading a "gone" magazine named "Creative Computing"... I wonder if the same "innovative" spirit of that magazine can be translated to the children of this generation with the help of the XOs & OLPC... I will check and find for all the UUCP versions (software) in the next days... and I will put them in our website for anyone that want to get back some memories... (or help with the tests!) Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru John Gilmore wrote: uucp ... the first place I'd turn for sneaker-netting posix-ish systems together. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP Yep. UUCP is great if there's a phone line that can dial overnight cheaply, but no Internet. I released the first free implementation of uucp (gnuucp), which was later succeeded by my friend Ian Taylor's "Taylor uucp", which I believe is still the best free version. Ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> may still even maintain it (last release: 1.07 in 2003). See: http://www.airs.com/ian/software.html There was also an MSDOS implementation of uuslave (the predecessor of gnuucp), maintained by Tim Pozar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, which was widely used to gateway Fidonet nodes to Usenet/UUCP nodes. That was the first project I worked on to bring thousands of 14-year-olds into the global network. See: http://www.lns.com/papers/ufgate/ If a remote school has a dialup phone connection that can run TCP/IP over a modem, that's probably better than running uucp over it, even if you can only run it at night due to telco charges. But uucp has a lot of scheduling and queueing support that more modern TCP/IP systems have forgotten about. John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Testing 200 XO's in two weeks time for Nepal's pilot
Michailis, thanks for your quick reply > small schools, the school server is all that you need. In the > meantime, APs with controllable WDS behavior are recommended. I am not an expert on access points. Can you suggest a particular model that meets this criteria? >The solution to that problem is to be able to turn off WDS. The stock >Linksys firmware doesn't do it, however OpenWRT and its variants can do >it. I am not familiar w/ OpenWRT and its variants. Similar to my previous question, is their an off-the-shelf AP where WDS can be disabled w/out having to load OpenWRT? To Mesh or not to Mesh? Using regular access points, is there actually a mesh network at all? It sounds like we are back to using a regular 802.11 g network. Jabber just emulates the features of a mesh over a regular network. We were really excited about kids using the mesh to connect to the Internet from their own homes to and each other via the mesh at great distances. Is this dream currently not a reality? If it is not currently a reality, when can we expect it to work? Two Networks? Should we use AP's for the school but then also use Active Antennas so that kids can connect to the Internet from home via the mesh? Michailis, thanks for taking your time to answer my questions. I really appreciate your help. Bryan Kathmandu http://www.olenepal.org On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 08:38 -0500, Michail Bletsas wrote: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 03/03/2008 02:38:00 AM: > > > > Questions: > > > > > > How many XO's can a single active antenna support? We only have two > > active antennas at the moment. > The answer is always traffic depedent. Given the current status of the > collaboration software on the XO and assuming that the school server's > ejabberd works correctly (shutting off multicast traffic on the XOs), > you should be able to put 30-40 laptops per "active antenna". > You should always keep in mind that in "dense" deployments > (classrooms), mesh is sub-optimal compared to standard access points > (assuming that every XO can talk to the AP). That is because, you have > all the path discovery control traffic overhead in mesh mode that you > don't have in infrastructure mode. > > > > > > Should we buy extra regular access points to back up our active > > antennas? Again, would love to know if particular AP is preferred > and > > how many XO's one can support. I read in the devel list today that > the > > WRT54G is not preferred. > Yes, if you can afford them, APs will give you much better performance > in schools. The issue with the stock firmware in the WRT54Gs is that > it tries to establish WDS peer links with every other WDS capable node > in the vicinity. So if you have a few of them in a school, you can end > up with multiple WDS tunnels between them. Add to that the multicast > traffic from the XOs and you end up with no spectrum at all, due to > multicast/broadcast retransmissions. > The solution to that problem is to be able to turn off WDS. The stock > Linksys firmware doesn't do it, however OpenWRT and its variants can > do it. > So the answer to whether you should/can use WRT54Gx APs is "only if > you can upgrade them to an OpenWRT variant". > > We are working on HostAP support for the active antennas, so that for > small schools, the school server is all that you need. In the > meantime, APs with controllable WDS behavior are recommended. > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New update.1 build 696
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Morgan Collett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I see more rationale in that ticket now. In particular, it's easy to add > activities through Browse (see below) - and activities added this way > can be uninstalled and upgraded - but not possible to remove or upgrade > activities that are preinstalled in /usr/share/activities. I saw also. > > And what is the supported way to obtain and install those missing from > > "base-build"? > > Go to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities in Browse and click on the > Download .xo link for each. > (Well, that's my understanding of this issue...) I am thinking about some activities that are rpm based , like Etoys. Are you implying that Etoys needs to be converted to .xo bundle for update.1 release ? /Korakurider ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: FWD: Bonjour Problem
That's a know bug (https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6298) Currently Chat activity can't talk with the not OLPC world. G. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New update.1 build 696
Le mercredi 05 mars 2008 à 09:28 +0200, Morgan Collett a écrit : > C. Scott Ananian wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Build Announcer v2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > >> http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/olpc/streams/update.1/build696 > >> Changes in build 696 from build: 695 > >> -sugar-presence-service 0.75.2-1.olpc2 > >> +sugar-presence-service 0.75.1-1.olpc2 > > > > Don't we need the school-server-detection bits in s-p-s 0.75.2? (trac > > #6299). The suggestion in the trac bug is that we need to include the > > newer Pippy, not revert s-p-s. Unless the sugar developers plan to > > fix trac #6299 in some other way? > > Last I heard this wasn't actually tested yet with a real schoolserver, > and Daf and Guillaume were going to change the patch in some way, so > from my perspective it's not ready for Update.1. Dennis said it was only > tagged into build 695 for the tests last week - so it can still be > tested as-is with that build. According to our tests, this patch seems to work pretty well but we are still a bit unsure about Salut restarting after 2 minutes if Gabble didn't connect. G. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Testing 200 XO's in two weeks time for Nepal's pilot
On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 3/4/08, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > <.snipped> > > > > > > > You're talking about testing the keyboard layout and fonts. What about > > > localization of software? > > > > > > According to Pootle, except possibly for XO-Bundled (89%), the Nepali > > > localization is not in good shape. The rest of the modules are less > > > than half translated, and Etoys less than 1%. > > > > > > Sayamindu, how many people do we have working on this? > > > > > > > > As per user account stats in Pootle, we have five people signed up for > > Nepali translations. > > Is there a way for me to find out these things, or do I have to ask > you each time? > > Is there a way for me to communicate with these five other than a > blast to the whole localization mailing list? > > I asked two other questions: > > As I mentioned earlier, I am planning on having a per language page - taking the data from the Pootle database. But I need to take care of other Pootle related stuff before that. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New update.1 build 696
On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:02 , Korakurider wrote: > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Morgan Collett > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I see more rationale in that ticket now. In particular, it's easy >> to add >> activities through Browse (see below) - and activities added this >> way >> can be uninstalled and upgraded - but not possible to remove or >> upgrade >> activities that are preinstalled in /usr/share/activities. > I saw also. > >>> And what is the supported way to obtain and install those missing >>> from >>> "base-build"? >> >> Go to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities in Browse and click on >> the >> Download .xo link for each. >> (Well, that's my understanding of this issue...) >I am thinking about some activities that are rpm based , like > Etoys. >Are you implying that Etoys needs to be converted to .xo bundle >for update.1 release ? No, the etoys RPM is different from the Etoys activity. It is in the base build and cannot be removed, because Squeak is one of the supported languages of the XO platform (see http://laptop.org/en/ laptop/software/specs.shtml). So Squeak-based activities like Etoys, DrGeo, BotsInc, etc. can still be installed. Nevertheless I would hope that Etoys (as well as TurtleArt and TamTam) would come pre-installed on a "learning machine". - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New update.1 build 696
Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:02 , Korakurider wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Morgan Collett >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I see more rationale in that ticket now. In particular, it's easy >>> to add >>> activities through Browse (see below) - and activities added this >>> way >>> can be uninstalled and upgraded - but not possible to remove or >>> upgrade >>> activities that are preinstalled in /usr/share/activities. >> I saw also. >> And what is the supported way to obtain and install those missing from "base-build"? >>> Go to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities in Browse and click on >>> the >>> Download .xo link for each. >>> (Well, that's my understanding of this issue...) >>I am thinking about some activities that are rpm based , like >> Etoys. >>Are you implying that Etoys needs to be converted to .xo bundle >>for update.1 release ? > > No, the etoys RPM is different from the Etoys activity. It is in the > base build and cannot be removed, because Squeak is one of the > supported languages of the XO platform (see http://laptop.org/en/ > laptop/software/specs.shtml). So Squeak-based activities like Etoys, > DrGeo, BotsInc, etc. can still be installed. > > Nevertheless I would hope that Etoys (as well as TurtleArt and > TamTam) would come pre-installed on a "learning machine". In my opinion the activities that would come pre-installed with 696 does not help to distinguish the XO from any other laptop. Measure would be another candidate I would vote as being important in an educational environment - a great way to discover the analog input. I understand that countries want to customize their builds - but maybe OLPC should then insist on activities to go in that have an educational merit, other than browse, chat and friends, since those are likely to be requested by the countries anyhow. Best, Simon ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: default jabber server?
On Mar 4, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Wilson Farrell wrote:
> Following the new and the old yields the same result for me, but
> the new page required less trial and error. The new page was much
> easier to follow. Thanks! In the old instructions the setup of
> the shared roster were not correct ("subtly" incorrect I suppose,
> but if you follow the directions literally, I can assure you they
> were not correct). They were corrected on the ejabberd
> configuration page recently.
Yes, the ejabberd configuration pages were a mess and I'm glad that
Morgan rewrote them.
I specifically refer to Morgan's change from Online/@online@/Online
for shared roster setup.
> When you say "Collaboration works", do you mean that sharing an
> activity will result in that shared activity appearing on the
> "neighborhood" view of other XO's connected to your ejabberd
> server. I have to explicitly invite a user to an activity for it
> to appear on that remote XO's view. That appears to be the only
> issue I am having. Collaboration seems to be fine, once I am
> invited to and join a shared activity. Finding the shared
> activities in the first place seems to be the problem.
Known problems with old software, not the server...
> You should know that I am running 653 on two OLPC (one actual G1G1
> and the other in a VM) connected to an ejabberd server (on a
> separate VM). I understand that my XO software is a bit dated. I
> was going to wait until update.1 was out to start troubleshooting
> this again, but there were a couple of posts that got me all
> stirred up about it. I know everyone is busy with testing. As far
> as I am concerned this is a low priority issue, but I do continue
> to watch the list for any nugget that can help.
>
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Re: Need Help
Hello All, Thanks, I found 2 things reading this thread, let me explain what I did, a) my activity directory was writable by world, why i did this was becuase i was creating a config file and didnt know the user which initiates my activity b) the scripts which were executeable i.e. my Activity main script, was only readable but still works ( can some one elaborate that for me? i am a bit confused that how its readable but still executed ) 1 thing more, when my activity is running, going to home view shows 2 icons, 1 is the activity icon that i created, 2nd is the black circle in the right that is associated with my activity. can some body give me a hint that where i am wrong ? as i am using glade with gtk Regards -- Waqas Toor member of OLPC Pakistan Team On 3/5/08, Benjamin M. Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Michael Stone wrote: > | On Tue, Mar 04, 2008 at 08:22:31PM -0500, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: > |> Michael Stone wrote: > |> | My central error-handling goal has been to compactly express my > |> | assumptions in a form that will prevent them from being violated in > |> | ignorance. Should I have different goals? > |> > |> 1. I find Rainbow very impressive, and I am sure you are well aware of the > |> various arguments made regarding error handling. > | > | Thank you. While it's true that I'm aware of some arguments regarding error > | handling, I'm always interested in improving. It seems like one of the > | most regularly failed challenges in the craft of programming. > | > |> In my view, restricting assertions to internal invariants provides an > |> easy way of distinguishing problems in Rainbow from problems in > |> Activities and other parts of the system. > | > | True, but the convention that I have established of separating error > | messages into contract-violations and 'everything else', recorded in > | per-activity logs and in a daemon-wide log (/var/log/rainbow) would seem > | to accomplish similar goals. > > I have not read the relevant Rainbow source, so I cannot comment very > intelligently on this. However, if Rainbow wishes to log a contract > violation, it should insert the phrase "contract violation" into the > logfile. Otherwise, how is a person reading the log to know this? > > |> 2. Among your goals, you might consider maximizing the ability of novice > |> programmers to figure out what they've done wrong. > | > | It's not my primary goal, but I'll agree that it's worth considering. > | > |> The wiki page on translation even goes so far as to > |> recommend using gettext for error strings, so that users and > |> administrators may debug the system without knowing English. > > I used the phrase "debug the system". That was a poor choice. I should > say "recognize bugs in the system", and additionally "distinguish between > bugs in the system and bugs in the activities they're developing". > > | > | I'm still not convinced. Wouldn't we be better served by translating the > | source code itself, or an overview of the source code like my 'Taste the > | Rainbow' pages? > | > | Consider: in my experience, debugging consists of searching the diff > | between one's mental model and reality from which it follows that the > | material which should be translated is the material which provides the > | clearest, most accurate mental model of the problem. > > Your experience is extremely unusual and non-representative. You are an > expert computer scientist who frequently reads source code written by > others. You are familiar with the OLPC operating system details, > including D-Bus and the Bitfrost requirements, perhaps moreso than anyone > else in the world. > > The people who will be reading these logfiles will be developers who are > trying to debug their activities. The activity may have crashed because > it attempted to violate a Bitfrost rule and was killed by Rainbow. These > developers (ideally mostly children) will likely be building their > activities by making small modifications to existing activities. That > means most won't even understand their own code. How could you possibly > expect them to understand yours? > > | Also consider: had there been an actual bug in Rainbow, which would have > | been more useful to Waqas in diagnosing and fixing the problem: > | translated error messages or better written or documented source code? > > Not fixing. It is absurd to imagine that any appreciable number of users > will be able fix Rainbow bugs. Rather, when Rainbow experiences an > internal error, it should be extremely obvious that the problem is with > Rainbow. For example, an excellent type of behavior would be for Rainbow > to print, in the logfile: > > RAINBOW BUG: Rainbow has encountered an internal error. This indicates a > bug in Rainbow. The error code is 752. > > This line would be sufficient for activity developers to understand that > the problem is not simply in their code. It also makes it pos
Software status meeting on IRC (Wednesday, 14:00pm EST)
We'll be having a software status meeting on irc.freenode.net / #olpc-meeting today (Wednesday) at 2pm EST. http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=3&day=5&year=2008&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=43 Agenda: * What needs to happen for deployment builds * current state of Jabber server patches * Milestone bug review http://dev.laptop.org/milestone/Update.1 - Jim -- Jim Gettys One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Issue of Signing Custom Builds
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know that you guys are super crushed w/ Peru's deployment. We really > need cryptographically signed custom XO images for Nepal. Please see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_key which is our supported mechanism for customizing your build. You/we need to figure out a way to install Adobe's flash in /home, either by creating an activity which extends Browse and includes the plugin, or else by using some /home/olpc/.gecko/plugins type mechanism. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Issue of Signing Custom Builds
Thanks Scott, I will work on this. On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 08:51 -0500, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I know that you guys are super crushed w/ Peru's deployment. We really > > need cryptographically signed custom XO images for Nepal. > > Please see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_key which is our > supported mechanism for customizing your build. You/we need to figure > out a way to install Adobe's flash in /home, either by creating an > activity which extends Browse and includes the plugin, or else by > using some /home/olpc/.gecko/plugins type mechanism. > --scott > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Issue of Signing Custom Builds
On Mar 5, 2008, at 14:51 , C. Scott Ananian wrote: > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> I know that you guys are super crushed w/ Peru's deployment. We >> really >> need cryptographically signed custom XO images for Nepal. > > Please see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_key which is our > supported mechanism for customizing your build. You/we need to figure > out a way to install Adobe's flash in /home, either by creating an > activity which extends Browse and includes the plugin, or else by > using some /home/olpc/.gecko/plugins type mechanism. With the image customization it could simply be installed as rpm, no? Presumably the customization would also disable automatic system updates. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: default jabber server?
John Watlington wrote: > > I specifically refer to Morgan's change from Online/@online@/Online for > shared roster setup. I have reverted that change. Morgan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Issue of Signing Custom Builds
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mar 5, 2008, at 14:51 , C. Scott Ananian wrote: > > Please see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_key which is our > > supported mechanism for customizing your build. You/we need to figure > > out a way to install Adobe's flash in /home, either by creating an > > activity which extends Browse and includes the plugin, or else by > > using some /home/olpc/.gecko/plugins type mechanism. > > With the image customization it could simply be installed as rpm, no? > Presumably the customization would also disable automatic system > updates. The customization key only writes to /home, which permits the automatic system updates to work correctly. This also allows customization to be safe w.r.t. initial-activation security. The plan of record is to include an automatic activity updater (separate from the base system updater) in update.2 to properly migrate activities when base APIs change. If our update.1 process stretches out long enough, I might be able to squeeze that in update.1 (help wanted! see http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4951 ). --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New update.1 build 696
On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 11:13 PM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Many pieces dropped from this build, maybe because of > http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6598 > Could you explain more rationale behind these change? We have a new customization mechanism: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_key This allows countries to easily add activities to their builds. In order for this to work, the base build must have only those activities we insist all countries include (or those like Journal, which are necessary for the operation of the system). An activity updater mechanism will allow independent upgrades of activities, separate from the base system. When update.1 is released, we'll provide an 'activity pack' for G1G1 folks to allow them to keep their current activity set when they update. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New update.1 build 696
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:05 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, the etoys RPM is different from the Etoys activity. It is in the > base build and cannot be removed, because Squeak is one of the > supported languages of the XO platform (see http://laptop.org/en/ > laptop/software/specs.shtml). So Squeak-based activities like Etoys, > DrGeo, BotsInc, etc. can still be installed. Yes, at the moment we are still installing necessary RPMs for all of the supported activities. At some point, not soon, we might gradually try to remove these one by one to make activities more self-contained, and remove the artificial distinction between OLPC-supported activities and activities created by the community. We won't be able to do that until we've got a robust activity updater which supports sharing common files between activities, etc. (See trac #4951). > Nevertheless I would hope that Etoys (as well as TurtleArt and > TamTam) would come pre-installed on a "learning machine". I believe Walter is so urging countries. That's a policy question for Walter, not a technical question about the builds. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New update.1 build 696
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:00 AM, Guillaume Desmottes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Le mercredi 05 mars 2008 à 09:28 +0200, Morgan Collett a écrit : > > C. Scott Ananian wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Build Announcer v2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >> http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/olpc/streams/update.1/build696 > > >> Changes in build 696 from build: 695 > > >> -sugar-presence-service 0.75.2-1.olpc2 > > >> +sugar-presence-service 0.75.1-1.olpc2 > > > > > > Don't we need the school-server-detection bits in s-p-s 0.75.2? (trac > > > #6299). The suggestion in the trac bug is that we need to include the > > > newer Pippy, not revert s-p-s. Unless the sugar developers plan to > > > fix trac #6299 in some other way? > > > > Last I heard this wasn't actually tested yet with a real schoolserver, > > and Daf and Guillaume were going to change the patch in some way, so > > from my perspective it's not ready for Update.1. Dennis said it was only > > tagged into build 695 for the tests last week - so it can still be > > tested as-is with that build. > > According to our tests, this patch seems to work pretty well but we are > still a bit unsure about Salut restarting after 2 minutes if Gabble > didn't connect. We should be making update.1 builds we can test. If this patch is necessary for Peru (which it is, to my understanding) let's get it back in the build (with the updated Pippy) so that we can find and fix whatever other problems may crop up. What should we test to eliminate your uncertainty about "Salut restarting after 2 minutes if Gabble didn't connect"? --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New update.1 build 696
On Mar 5, 2008, at 16:08 , C. Scott Ananian wrote: > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:05 AM, Bert Freudenberg > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> No, the etoys RPM is different from the Etoys activity. It is in the >> base build and cannot be removed, because Squeak is one of the >> supported languages of the XO platform (see http://laptop.org/en/ >> laptop/software/specs.shtml). So Squeak-based activities like Etoys, >> DrGeo, BotsInc, etc. can still be installed. > > Yes, at the moment we are still installing necessary RPMs for all of > the supported activities. At some point, not soon, we might gradually > try to remove these one by one to make activities more self-contained, > and remove the artificial distinction between OLPC-supported > activities and activities created by the community. We won't be able > to do that until we've got a robust activity updater which supports > sharing common files between activities, etc. (See trac #4951). I'm not entirely sure what you are suggesting here. The XO software is a platform, supporting a few select programming environments, as detailed in the spec I linked above. These do not have to be provided by the activities. The activities *are* self- contained if they only depend on these runtime environments, just like they depend on the X11 library, D-Bus, the Linux kernel etc. without having to include those. >> Nevertheless I would hope that Etoys (as well as TurtleArt and >> TamTam) would come pre-installed on a "learning machine". > > I believe Walter is so urging countries. That's a policy question for > Walter, not a technical question about the builds. Well, as Ben commented on the ticket, there is no technical reason to have Chat, Write, Record, Paint etc. in the base build, either. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Project name : Lab Activity is set up
04 Mar 2008 22:58:57 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nicholas A. Sinnott-Armstrong) wrote: Project name : Lab Activity Done. Your tree is here: git+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/git/activities/lab Please follow instructions here for importing your project: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Importing_your_project Let us know if you have any problems with your tree. Happy hacking. Cheers, -- Henry Edward Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New update.1 build 696
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 2008, at 16:08 , C. Scott Ananian wrote:
> > Yes, at the moment we are still installing necessary RPMs for all of
> > the supported activities. At some point, not soon, we might gradually
> > try to remove these one by one to make activities more self-contained,
> > and remove the artificial distinction between OLPC-supported
> > activities and activities created by the community. We won't be able
> > to do that until we've got a robust activity updater which supports
> > sharing common files between activities, etc. (See trac #4951).
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you are suggesting here.
>
> The XO software is a platform, supporting a few select programming
> environments, as detailed in the spec I linked above. These do not
> have to be provided by the activities. The activities *are* self-
> contained if they only depend on these runtime environments, just
> like they depend on the X11 library, D-Bus, the Linux kernel etc.
> without having to include those.
Right. Again, this is a policy question; I wasn't specifically
talking about eToys. There are a number of activities which depend on
one or more RPMs in the base build. At the moment our policy is (more
or less) "include 'em all, in case someone wants to install that
activity". At some point we might be more selective about including
RPMs in the base build, especially if they are large and infrequently
used. If we have committed to including a squeak environment in the
base build (you didn't actually link to the spec you cited; I believe
you anyway, I don't need to be convinced) then obviously it would not
be on the cutting block.
> >> Nevertheless I would hope that Etoys (as well as TurtleArt and
> >> TamTam) would come pre-installed on a "learning machine".
> >
> > I believe Walter is so urging countries. That's a policy question for
> > Walter, not a technical question about the builds.
>
> Well, as Ben commented on the ticket, there is no technical reason to
> have Chat, Write, Record, Paint etc. in the base build, either.
Fair point. It's not my decision to make, anyway. You need to
convince the Product Manager. I don't think there are strong reasons
to include or not include them ("consistency" isn't a strong reason,
and no deployment is actually clamoring for their removal) so I tend
to think things will be left as they are.
--scott
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Re: New update.1 build 696
On Mar 5, 2008, at 16:38 , C. Scott Ananian wrote: > You need to convince the Product Manager. There is a Product Manager? SCNR - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Project Hosting request: Mastergoal (a resend)
1. Project name: Mastergoal
2. Existing website, if any :
3. One-line description : Board strategy game inspired on soccer and
chess
4. Longer description : The mastergoal board represents the field and the
pieces represent the players and the ball. Each team have one or more
players (depending on the level) and the objective is to score a goal to the
opposite team. This project involves the implementation of the board game
including rules, AI, multi-player feature, etc.
5. URLs of similar projects : http://www.mastergoal.com (official website)
6. Committer list
Please list the maintainer (lead developer) as the first entry. Only list
developers who need to be given accounts so that they can commit to your
project's code repository, or push their own. There is no need to list
non-committer developers.
Username Full name SSH2 key
URLE-mail
-
--
#1 nescobarj Nicolas Escobar (below)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
#2
#3
...
If any developers don't have their SSH2 keys on the web, please attach
them
to the application e-mail.
7. Preferred development model
[X] Central tree. Every developer can push his changes directly to the
project's git tree. This is the standard model that will be familiar
to
CVS and Subversion users, and that tends to work well for most
projects.
[ ] Maintainer-owned tree. Every developer creates his own git tree, or
multiple git trees. He periodically asks the maintainer to look at
one
or more of these trees, and merge changes into the maintainer-owned,
"main" tree. This is the model used by the Linux kernel, and is
well-suited to projects wishing to maintain a tighter control on code
entering the main tree.
If you choose the maintainer-owned tree model, but wish to set up some
shared trees where all of your project's committers can commit directly,
as might be the case with a "discussion" tree, or a tree for an
individual
feature, you may send us such a request by e-mail, and we will set up the
tree for you.
8. Set up a project mailing list:
[ ] Yes, named after our project name
[ ] Yes, named __
[X] No
When your project is just getting off the ground, we suggest you eschew
a separate mailing list and instead keep discussion about your project
on the main OLPC development list. This will give you more input and
potentially attract more developers to your project; when the volume of
messages related to your project reaches some critical mass, we can
trivially create a separate mailing list for you.
If you need multiple lists, let us know. We discourage having many
mailing lists for smaller projects, as this tends to
stunt the growth of your project community. You can always add more lists
later.
9. Commit notifications
[ ] Notification of commits to the main tree should be e-mailed to the
list
we chose to create above
[ ] A separate mailing list, -git, should be created for
commit
notifications
[X] No commit notifications, please
10. Shell accounts
As a general rule, we don't provide shell accounts to developers unless
there's a demonstrated need. If you have one, please explain here, and
list the usernames of the committers above needing shell access.
11. Translation
[X] Set up the laptop.org Pootle server to allow translation commits to
be made
[ ] Translation arrangements have already been made at ___
12. Notes/comments:
ssh-dss B3NzaC1kc3MAAACBAKA8UeRiQmSK/zavI8oFri1+QKfYM0E01AuYMhVLqHoT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Project name : Mastergoal is set up
Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:35:49 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Project name : Mastergoal Done. Your tree is here: git+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/git/activities/mastergoal Please follow instructions here for importing your project: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Importing_your_project Let us know if you have any problems with your tree. Happy hacking. Cheers, -- Henry Edward Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Software status meeting on IRC (Wednesday, 14:00pm EST)
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 2:37 AM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We'll be having a software status meeting on irc.freenode.net / > #olpc-meeting today (Wednesday) at 2pm EST. Damn - that was right through a meeting - are the IRC logs archived anywhere? cheers, m ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Project name : Mastergoal is set up
Thank you! I am having trouble performing the initial push though. Just in case, I am attaching a new SSH2 key if that's ok. I apologize for the inconvenience Regards 2008/3/5, Henry Hardy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:35:49 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Project name : Mastergoal > > Done. Your tree is here: > git+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/git/activities/mastergoal > > Please follow instructions here for importing your project: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Importing_your_project > > Let us know if you have any problems with your tree. Happy hacking. > > Cheers, > > > -- > Henry Edward Hardy > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Nicolás.- id_rsa.pub Description: MS-Publisher document ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Scanning and probe requests
Two things about probe requests from XOs: 1 - Analysis of traffic traces shows that XOs typically send probe requests in pairs (separated by 120ms). 2 - Analysis of kernel traces shows that typically scan commands are sent to the firmware in groups of four (separated by 750ms). Probe requests are relevant to us because they generate Probe responses which grow squarely in a mesh and this is known to be one of the limiting factors in its scalability. The two items above are not necessarily bugs or mistakes. I believe they are there for good reasons. But I find strange that: - Once the scan command is sent to the firmware it takes about 450ms for the driver to get a response, but scan commands are being prepared and queued even after a successful scan result is returned, 300ms later. - The fact that the interval between the two probe requests is shorter than the interval between consecutive scan commands from the driver seem to indicate that: -- either two consecutive scans are getting buffered -- or one single scan command will generate the two probe requests. It may be the case that active scanning is being used after a passive scanning returns nothing. But it seems there is no specific command for passive or active scan in the kernel level. Is there? It may be possible that NetworkManager is triggering the scannings (any other possibility?). Anyway, why 4 scan commands and how this becomes 2 probe requests? Any ideas? There is, of course, the discussion on the merits of keeping probe requests. In case we keep them, it seems that we should use less of them. -- Ricardo Carrano ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Testing 200 XO's in two weeks time for Nepal's pilot
Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 03/05/2008 03:07:12 AM: > Michailis, thanks for your quick reply > > > small schools, the school server is all that you need. In the > > meantime, APs with controllable WDS behavior are recommended. > > I am not an expert on access points. Can you suggest a particular model > that meets this criteria? Bryan, The problem is mostly obvious on consumer APs with Broadcom radios (the Linksys WRT54 being the most common) and is not an XO specific problem anymore. Any application that generates multicast traffic will trigger storms in environments where many such access points are deployed in the vicinity of each other. Most enterprise Access Points will work just fine because they allow for fine control of WDS. Since we assume a limited budget here, I will stick to consumer and prosumer grade gear. A good starting point should be the DLINK DWL-2100AP which uses an Atheros Chipset. > > >The solution to that problem is to be able to turn off WDS. The stock > >Linksys firmware doesn't do it, however OpenWRT and its variants can do > >it. > > I am not familiar w/ OpenWRT and its variants. Similar to my previous > question, is their an off-the-shelf AP where WDS can be disabled w/out > having to load OpenWRT? The reason that I mentioned OpenWRT, DD-WRT etc. is that the Linksys WRT54Gx is the most popular AP that I know off. Avoiding them completely will be hard ;-) In many models (the ones with 8MB of RAM) loading DD-WRT is trivial. > > To Mesh or not to Mesh? > Using regular access points, is there actually a mesh network at all? It > sounds like we are back to using a regular 802.11 g network. Jabber just > emulates the features of a mesh over a regular network. Let's separate the mesh transport (802.11s-like layer-2 transport) from the collaboration middleware (jabber, avahi, telepathy). They are completely indepedent and as you point out the applications will run on any transport. > > We were really excited about kids using the mesh to connect to the > Internet from their own homes to and each other via the mesh at great > distances. Is this dream currently not a reality? If it is not currently > a reality, when can we expect it to work? When we started OLPC, we thought that the mesh would have two main uses: * extending the range of access points (via multihopping) * enabling p2p ad-hoc collaboration for small groups without any infrastructure We had the first scenario working very early on. Every time one XO connects to an AP, it acts as a gateway for other XOs via its mesh interface. Then we disabled that functionality (by means of stopping the gateway script from running in the XOs - very easy to reenable) for a variety of reasons, the most important being that we wanted to focus on school server operation and having multiple gateways (MPPs - mesh portals) under the same roof, doesn't agree with the current state of the collaboration software. The second scenario works very well now for small groups (<10). Since it relies heavily on multicast and since the mesh currently implements multicast as a controlled flooding, it won't scale to larger numbers of nodes until we address one of the two (or better both) issues. Add to that the fact that the mesh is inherently more chatty due to its control traffic, and you realize that when you care about how to stuff the maximum number of nodes under one roof (pushing the limits of what people can do with WiFi in general), using the mesh where you can easily use access points is a very suboptimal choice. There is no need for multihopping inside the school. > > Two Networks? > Should we use AP's for the school but then also use Active Antennas so > that kids can connect to the Internet from home via the mesh? You could do that, you can also enable MPP functionality on the laptops, so that the kids who are closer to the school connect via WiFi to the school and via the mesh interface to other XOs downstream from them. What is ironic is that we didn't want to offer many choices to the users (so that they don't get confused) and that lack of control is giving us many headaches right now... People who are command-line jockeys can do very ellaborate setups with the XOs. We have to expose those capabilities to the GUI too. M.___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
