Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in, > Release, process/roadmap?
Hi Sayamindu and Localization Leads, Thanks for following up on this. I put "string freeze" for translation in the the Release Process at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Process_Home#String_Freeze I don't know that the exact dates in the process will hold, but its a start. There are a couple of other comments on translation in the Ice section. Please update this page to fit your working assumptions. I included a couple of questions I had (look for "?"). If you can address those it will help. You may want to notify these lists if you make changes. Add links to relevant pages you maintain too. Let me know if you have any questions or need help with this. Thanks, Greg S > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:13:21 +0530 > From: "Sayamindu Dasgupta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in > Release,process/roadmap? > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Greg, > > It looks like the current release schedule for SugarLabs worked out > pretty fine for us. > The time frame depends on the number of strings, as well as the number > of strings which are being changed in a given release cycle. I would > say a period of 30 days in enough. > > You may also find the schedule at > http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentythree to be interesting. > > Thanks, > Sayamindu > > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 10:17 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi Sayamindu, >> >> Great work, thanks for taking up the gauntlet on this! >> >> One question for you, how much lead time do you need to do the translations? >> >> Assuming something like "final test" starts 15 days before the target >> release date, when do we need to tell the developers to "freeze" all of >> their strings? >> >> Possible dates are 90 days before target release day and 60 days before >> target release day. >> >> Let me know which of those you prefer or if you think a different lead time >> is warranted. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Greg S >> >> Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: >>> Hello Korakurider, >>> Thanks for your input. I have put up a basic document at >>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Workflow Comments and brickbats >>> are welcome :-). >>> Regarding you questions - please see inline :-) >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Now, my turn to ask :-) I don't know who is the right one to ask >>>> though... >>>> >>>> (1) They say SugarLabs is upstream of Sugar software and OLPC is one of >>>> distro. >>>> Then, which POs are still "owned" by OLPC? >>>> (Packaging/Pootle/Activation Server/OLPC Web site projects are obvious >>>> :-) >>>> For Sugar. will commit from Pootle go to upstream(SugarLab) or >>>> distro(OLPC)? >>>> Which will POT come from ? >>>> >>> My personal opinion (I am open to suggestions) that all translations >>> should go directly upstream as much as possible. Distro specific >>> efforts for translations (unless you are talking about distro specific >>> tools, etc) have been badly bitten in the past. >>> >>>> (2) SugarLabs have declared string freeze for 8.2. But I am not sure >>>> specifically which POT/POs are governed by their declaration. >>>> sugar.po/sugar-base.po/sugar-toolkit.po come to mind. >>>> And I think other activities in XO-Core (that are also included in >>>> their software stack as "Demo activities") aren't governed. right? >>>> >>> I think I answered this. >>> >>> * sugar-base >>> * sugar-toolkit >>> * sugar >>> * chat-activity >>> * web-activity >>> * read-activity >>> * log-activity >>> * write-activity >>> * calculate-activity >>> * terminal-activity >>> * pippy-activity >>> * etoys-activity >>> >>> I will probably try to arrange the projects in our Pootle server at >>> some point to reflect this. >>> >>>> (3) OLPC have stopped to bundle activities with base software. Now >>>> release cycle for them doesn't have to be aligned to XO soft
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:58 AM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> The range on our Pootle server is from 0% translated (Aymara, for >> example) to 99% for German. Spanish, the most used, is at 69%, but >> almost all of what is missing is in Etoys internals. >> >> We could pick a few languages that are in deployments and are close >> enough to finished for this sort of freeze to be meaningful. My >> impression as that that would consist of Spanish and French. I invite >> you to examine http://dev.laptop.org/translate and draw your own >> conclusions. >> > > Freeze applies to code (developers need to maintain the freeze), and > not translations or translation teams individually. If we look at the > stats for XO core and XO Bundled (at least parts of which are string > frozen right now) - we have at least 10-15 languages which have > crossed the 90% percent mark. Which is not too bad. I proposed "translation freeze" milestone, because translators can know due date to push translations for final build and they can plan and manage their own work. (and setting goal would make people more productive :-) In other words, final build have to be planned and executed by developers after the milestone. I wouldn't worry even if the translation is < 100% for some project with too many strings (like etoys) at the translation freeze time. ** We have been more than happy with near 50% translations for Japanese Etoys, as frequently used in typical Etoys workshop with kids have been already covered. Though I have not yet given up better coverage in future ofcourse :-) > >> It would be helpful if we could get a page generated automatically >> with some statistics on language projects, but I don't know who could >> create it. Sayamindu is rather overwhelmed. >> Could you be more specific about the requirement? Is the stat shown on Pootle screen right now insufficient for you? Cheers, /Korakurider > > What kind of statistics are you looking at ? Translation stats for all > languages will probably appear in a future release of Pootle (the > Mozilla folks are working on that). > > Thanks, > Sayamindu > > > -- > Sayamindu Dasgupta > [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:58 AM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi Sayamindu, >> >> Great work, thanks for taking up the gauntlet on this! >> >> One question for you, how much lead time do you need to do the translations? >> >> Assuming something like "final test" starts 15 days before the target >> release date, when do we need to tell the developers to "freeze" all of >> their strings? > > We are nowhere near that state. That would be OK if we had enough > localizers working full-time from a previous release that was > completely localized. In the present state of things we have no way to > complete localization in most languages, no matter how much lead time > we specify. > Not true always :-). For example, take a look at the GNOME stats. They have a significant number of languages breaching the 80% mark (and gaining "supported status") for each release cycle. They have a much larger volunteer pool though (I think..), and there are people who are actually paid to do the translations (not by GNOME, but usually by distro manufacturers who ship GNOME). However, I see no reason why there should not be a similar release policy for OLPC. > The range on our Pootle server is from 0% translated (Aymara, for > example) to 99% for German. Spanish, the most used, is at 69%, but > almost all of what is missing is in Etoys internals. > > We could pick a few languages that are in deployments and are close > enough to finished for this sort of freeze to be meaningful. My > impression as that that would consist of Spanish and French. I invite > you to examine http://dev.laptop.org/translate and draw your own > conclusions. > Freeze applies to code (developers need to maintain the freeze), and not translations or translation teams individually. If we look at the stats for XO core and XO Bundled (at least parts of which are string frozen right now) - we have at least 10-15 languages which have crossed the 90% percent mark. Which is not too bad. > It would be helpful if we could get a page generated automatically > with some statistics on language projects, but I don't know who could > create it. Sayamindu is rather overwhelmed. > What kind of statistics are you looking at ? Translation stats for all languages will probably appear in a future release of Pootle (the Mozilla folks are working on that). Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
Hi Greg, It looks like the current release schedule for SugarLabs worked out pretty fine for us. The time frame depends on the number of strings, as well as the number of strings which are being changed in a given release cycle. I would say a period of 30 days in enough. You may also find the schedule at http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentythree to be interesting. Thanks, Sayamindu On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 10:17 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Sayamindu, > > Great work, thanks for taking up the gauntlet on this! > > One question for you, how much lead time do you need to do the translations? > > Assuming something like "final test" starts 15 days before the target > release date, when do we need to tell the developers to "freeze" all of > their strings? > > Possible dates are 90 days before target release day and 60 days before > target release day. > > Let me know which of those you prefer or if you think a different lead time > is warranted. > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: >> >> Hello Korakurider, >> Thanks for your input. I have put up a basic document at >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Workflow Comments and brickbats >> are welcome :-). >> Regarding you questions - please see inline :-) >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Now, my turn to ask :-) I don't know who is the right one to ask >>> though... >>> >>> (1) They say SugarLabs is upstream of Sugar software and OLPC is one of >>> distro. >>> Then, which POs are still "owned" by OLPC? >>> (Packaging/Pootle/Activation Server/OLPC Web site projects are obvious >>> :-) >>> For Sugar. will commit from Pootle go to upstream(SugarLab) or >>> distro(OLPC)? >>> Which will POT come from ? >>> >> >> My personal opinion (I am open to suggestions) that all translations >> should go directly upstream as much as possible. Distro specific >> efforts for translations (unless you are talking about distro specific >> tools, etc) have been badly bitten in the past. >> >>> (2) SugarLabs have declared string freeze for 8.2. But I am not sure >>> specifically which POT/POs are governed by their declaration. >>> sugar.po/sugar-base.po/sugar-toolkit.po come to mind. >>> And I think other activities in XO-Core (that are also included in >>> their software stack as "Demo activities") aren't governed. right? >>> >> >> I think I answered this. >> >> * sugar-base >> * sugar-toolkit >> * sugar >> * chat-activity >> * web-activity >> * read-activity >> * log-activity >> * write-activity >> * calculate-activity >> * terminal-activity >> * pippy-activity >> * etoys-activity >> >> I will probably try to arrange the projects in our Pootle server at >> some point to reflect this. >> >>> (3) OLPC have stopped to bundle activities with base software. Now >>> release cycle for them doesn't have to be aligned to XO software from >>> OLPC's point of view. But I think It would be still better to try to >>> let them aligned for refreshing translations. >>> Note that even if the package is enough mature, additional build would >>> be needed to pull new translations (new languages for instance). >>> Right now it is hard to know when my updated translations for some >>> activities will be pulled into the packages :-< >>> >> >> For the sugar stuff - expect a following of the release cycles. For >> other stuff - there is really no way to know. However, I would like to >> request developers to announce releases a few days in advance in the >> localization list, so that translators can prioritize and/or commit >> appropriately. >> >> Thanks, >> Sayamindu >> > -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Sayamindu. > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hello Korakurider, >> Thanks for your input. I have put up a basic document at >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Workflow Comments and brickbats >> are welcome :-). > > Thank you, this is handy and very useful as a base of further discussion ! > My comments follow: > > a) Could you show the exact schedule for jobs on Wiki or some page > on Pootle server? > Without that knowledge, I have been checking everyday when POT is > merged to PO actually after every time I notice update to the POT on > etoys-notify list. > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Workflow#_note-0 For Etoys I suggest you ping me (IRC/Mail/GTalk) when a POT file update happens. >** It would make our life easier if timestamp and participant for > the last interesting events ( at least, and history hopefully) are > shown on Pootle screen. (that make it like "real portal" :-) > + POT generation > + merge POT to POs > + change to translations/fuzzy flags of each POs > + change to suggestion for each POs > + the latest commit of each POs to repo > + upload/merge (if it really works :-) > > At this time the person who did them only knows what have been > done actually, that make team work difficult. > Hmm - I suggest filing a bug on the Pootle bugzilla and keep me CC-ed on this. There has been some interesting work going on around Pootle (the excellent SoC work being done by Julen, the student I am mentoring, the work being done by Mozilla (Mozilla might switch to Pootle soon), etc) > b) As asked in another thread; from this picture I can't see where > the POT included in XO bundle came from. > and which is the master of POT that is being linked from wiki > page for each activities. > Yeah - I have been thinking of pointing to the src repo in the Pootle config file in some way (my aim is different though - I want to allow users to explore the relevant section of the source code from Pootle itself) > c) We have seen too many incidents that translator tried to > upload/merge POs (especially etoys. po :-<) by himself with Pootle > interface and Pootle went down. Do you really want to support the > functionality right now? (though it might work for POs other than > etoys.po) > Hmm good idea. I'll need to figure out how this is to be done in a Etoys specific way though. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Sayamindu, > > Great work, thanks for taking up the gauntlet on this! > > One question for you, how much lead time do you need to do the translations? > > Assuming something like "final test" starts 15 days before the target > release date, when do we need to tell the developers to "freeze" all of > their strings? We are nowhere near that state. That would be OK if we had enough localizers working full-time from a previous release that was completely localized. In the present state of things we have no way to complete localization in most languages, no matter how much lead time we specify. The range on our Pootle server is from 0% translated (Aymara, for example) to 99% for German. Spanish, the most used, is at 69%, but almost all of what is missing is in Etoys internals. We could pick a few languages that are in deployments and are close enough to finished for this sort of freeze to be meaningful. My impression as that that would consist of Spanish and French. I invite you to examine http://dev.laptop.org/translate and draw your own conclusions. It would be helpful if we could get a page generated automatically with some statistics on language projects, but I don't know who could create it. Sayamindu is rather overwhelmed. > Possible dates are 90 days before target release day and 60 days before > target release day. > > Let me know which of those you prefer or if you think a different lead > time is warranted. A different kind of policy is warranted. > Thanks, > > Greg S -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think I answered this. > > * sugar-base > * sugar-toolkit > * sugar > * chat-activity > * web-activity > * read-activity > * log-activity > * write-activity > * calculate-activity > * terminal-activity > * pippy-activity > * etoys-activity > > I will probably try to arrange the projects in our Pootle server at > some point to reflect this. If it's not too difficult/disruptive, I think this would be really helpful. Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
Hi Sayamindu, Great work, thanks for taking up the gauntlet on this! One question for you, how much lead time do you need to do the translations? Assuming something like "final test" starts 15 days before the target release date, when do we need to tell the developers to "freeze" all of their strings? Possible dates are 90 days before target release day and 60 days before target release day. Let me know which of those you prefer or if you think a different lead time is warranted. Thanks, Greg S Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: > Hello Korakurider, > Thanks for your input. I have put up a basic document at > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Workflow Comments and brickbats > are welcome :-). > Regarding you questions - please see inline :-) > > > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Now, my turn to ask :-) I don't know who is the right one to ask though... >> >> (1) They say SugarLabs is upstream of Sugar software and OLPC is one of >> distro. >> Then, which POs are still "owned" by OLPC? >> (Packaging/Pootle/Activation Server/OLPC Web site projects are obvious >> :-) >> For Sugar. will commit from Pootle go to upstream(SugarLab) or distro(OLPC)? >> Which will POT come from ? >> > > My personal opinion (I am open to suggestions) that all translations > should go directly upstream as much as possible. Distro specific > efforts for translations (unless you are talking about distro specific > tools, etc) have been badly bitten in the past. > >> (2) SugarLabs have declared string freeze for 8.2. But I am not sure >> specifically which POT/POs are governed by their declaration. >> sugar.po/sugar-base.po/sugar-toolkit.po come to mind. >> And I think other activities in XO-Core (that are also included in >> their software stack as "Demo activities") aren't governed. right? >> > > I think I answered this. > > * sugar-base > * sugar-toolkit > * sugar > * chat-activity > * web-activity > * read-activity > * log-activity > * write-activity > * calculate-activity > * terminal-activity > * pippy-activity > * etoys-activity > > I will probably try to arrange the projects in our Pootle server at > some point to reflect this. > >> (3) OLPC have stopped to bundle activities with base software. Now >> release cycle for them doesn't have to be aligned to XO software from >> OLPC's point of view. But I think It would be still better to try to >> let them aligned for refreshing translations. >> Note that even if the package is enough mature, additional build would >> be needed to pull new translations (new languages for instance). >> Right now it is hard to know when my updated translations for some >> activities will be pulled into the packages :-< >> > > For the sugar stuff - expect a following of the release cycles. For > other stuff - there is really no way to know. However, I would like to > request developers to announce releases a few days in advance in the > localization list, so that translators can prioritize and/or commit > appropriately. > > Thanks, > Sayamindu > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
Hi Sayamindu. On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello Korakurider, > Thanks for your input. I have put up a basic document at > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Workflow Comments and brickbats > are welcome :-). Thank you, this is handy and very useful as a base of further discussion ! My comments follow: a) Could you show the exact schedule for jobs on Wiki or some page on Pootle server? Without that knowledge, I have been checking everyday when POT is merged to PO actually after every time I notice update to the POT on etoys-notify list. ** It would make our life easier if timestamp and participant for the last interesting events ( at least, and history hopefully) are shown on Pootle screen. (that make it like "real portal" :-) + POT generation + merge POT to POs + change to translations/fuzzy flags of each POs + change to suggestion for each POs + the latest commit of each POs to repo + upload/merge (if it really works :-) At this time the person who did them only knows what have been done actually, that make team work difficult. b) As asked in another thread; from this picture I can't see where the POT included in XO bundle came from. and which is the master of POT that is being linked from wiki page for each activities. c) We have seen too many incidents that translator tried to upload/merge POs (especially etoys. po :-<) by himself with Pootle interface and Pootle went down. Do you really want to support the functionality right now? (though it might work for POs other than etoys.po) > Regarding you questions - please see inline :-) thanks, this clears ! > > > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Now, my turn to ask :-) I don't know who is the right one to ask though... >> >> (1) They say SugarLabs is upstream of Sugar software and OLPC is one of >> distro. >> Then, which POs are still "owned" by OLPC? >> (Packaging/Pootle/Activation Server/OLPC Web site projects are obvious >> :-) >> For Sugar. will commit from Pootle go to upstream(SugarLab) or distro(OLPC)? >> Which will POT come from ? >> > > My personal opinion (I am open to suggestions) that all translations > should go directly upstream as much as possible. Distro specific > efforts for translations (unless you are talking about distro specific > tools, etc) have been badly bitten in the past. I agree, while agreement with between OLPC and SL would be needed. Note they haven't mentioned about translation of software in SL Wiki, that confused me. >> (2) SugarLabs have declared string freeze for 8.2. But I am not sure >> specifically which POT/POs are governed by their declaration. >> sugar.po/sugar-base.po/sugar-toolkit.po come to mind. >> And I think other activities in XO-Core (that are also included in >> their software stack as "Demo activities") aren't governed. right? >> > > I think I answered this. > > * sugar-base > * sugar-toolkit > * sugar > * chat-activity > * web-activity > * read-activity > * log-activity > * write-activity > * calculate-activity > * terminal-activity > * pippy-activity > * etoys-activity > > I will probably try to arrange the projects in our Pootle server at > some point to reflect this. > >> (3) OLPC have stopped to bundle activities with base software. Now >> release cycle for them doesn't have to be aligned to XO software from >> OLPC's point of view. But I think It would be still better to try to >> let them aligned for refreshing translations. >> Note that even if the package is enough mature, additional build would >> be needed to pull new translations (new languages for instance). >> Right now it is hard to know when my updated translations for some >> activities will be pulled into the packages :-< >> > > For the sugar stuff - expect a following of the release cycles. For > other stuff - there is really no way to know. However, I would like to > request developers to announce releases a few days in advance in the > localization list, so that translators can prioritize and/or commit > appropriately. my point exactly. I really hope to see such collaboration. Cheers, /Korakurider > > Thanks, > Sayamindu > > -- > Sayamindu Dasgupta > [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
Hello Korakurider, Thanks for your input. I have put up a basic document at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Workflow Comments and brickbats are welcome :-). Regarding you questions - please see inline :-) On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Now, my turn to ask :-) I don't know who is the right one to ask though... > > (1) They say SugarLabs is upstream of Sugar software and OLPC is one of > distro. > Then, which POs are still "owned" by OLPC? > (Packaging/Pootle/Activation Server/OLPC Web site projects are obvious > :-) > For Sugar. will commit from Pootle go to upstream(SugarLab) or distro(OLPC)? > Which will POT come from ? > My personal opinion (I am open to suggestions) that all translations should go directly upstream as much as possible. Distro specific efforts for translations (unless you are talking about distro specific tools, etc) have been badly bitten in the past. > (2) SugarLabs have declared string freeze for 8.2. But I am not sure > specifically which POT/POs are governed by their declaration. > sugar.po/sugar-base.po/sugar-toolkit.po come to mind. > And I think other activities in XO-Core (that are also included in > their software stack as "Demo activities") aren't governed. right? > I think I answered this. * sugar-base * sugar-toolkit * sugar * chat-activity * web-activity * read-activity * log-activity * write-activity * calculate-activity * terminal-activity * pippy-activity * etoys-activity I will probably try to arrange the projects in our Pootle server at some point to reflect this. > (3) OLPC have stopped to bundle activities with base software. Now > release cycle for them doesn't have to be aligned to XO software from > OLPC's point of view. But I think It would be still better to try to > let them aligned for refreshing translations. > Note that even if the package is enough mature, additional build would > be needed to pull new translations (new languages for instance). > Right now it is hard to know when my updated translations for some > activities will be pulled into the packages :-< > For the sugar stuff - expect a following of the release cycles. For other stuff - there is really no way to know. However, I would like to request developers to announce releases a few days in advance in the localization list, so that translators can prioritize and/or commit appropriately. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release process/roadmap?
On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Torello Querci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alle giovedì 3 luglio 2008, Kim Quirk ha scritto: >> In order to help focus which translations are high priority for this >> release, I have listed the languages we are shipping to today and >> expect to ship to in the next 4-6 months. They are in size order: >> >> Spanish (Peru, Uruguay, Mexico), 200k >> Mongolia, 20k (10k now, 10k by end of year) >> French (Rwanda), 10k (5k now, 5k in late fall) >> Kreyol (Haiti), 13k (6k now, 7k later) >> Amharic (Ethiopia), 5000 >> Khmer (Cambodia), 1000 >> Dari (Afghanistan), 3000 (1k now, 2k later) >> Thai, 500 >> Devanagari, 500 >> Portuguese (Brazil), 200 >> Arabic, ~500 >> >> Receiving laptops in the next 3-6 months: >> Oceania, 500 >> Italy, 600 >> Turkey, 15k >> Senegal (French), 1000 >> Argentina, Equitorial Guinea, Panama (Spanish) > Hi Kim, I see that is scheduled a delivery for Italy. > > Since the official build seems not include the translation work made using > pootle, I'm interesting know, if possibile, which OS image will be shipped in > the italian verision on XO. > Have we time to check and/or complete the transaltion work? And if yes can you > give me a deadline? > Hi Torello, For the release scheduled for August (0.82), yes, there is still time. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Roadmap#Timeline gives you how the schedule progresses. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release process/roadmap?
Alle giovedì 3 luglio 2008, Kim Quirk ha scritto: > In order to help focus which translations are high priority for this > release, I have listed the languages we are shipping to today and > expect to ship to in the next 4-6 months. They are in size order: > > Spanish (Peru, Uruguay, Mexico), 200k > Mongolia, 20k (10k now, 10k by end of year) > French (Rwanda), 10k (5k now, 5k in late fall) > Kreyol (Haiti), 13k (6k now, 7k later) > Amharic (Ethiopia), 5000 > Khmer (Cambodia), 1000 > Dari (Afghanistan), 3000 (1k now, 2k later) > Thai, 500 > Devanagari, 500 > Portuguese (Brazil), 200 > Arabic, ~500 > > Receiving laptops in the next 3-6 months: > Oceania, 500 > Italy, 600 > Turkey, 15k > Senegal (French), 1000 > Argentina, Equitorial Guinea, Panama (Spanish) Hi Kim, I see that is scheduled a delivery for Italy. Since the official build seems not include the translation work made using pootle, I'm interesting know, if possibile, which OS image will be shipped in the italian verision on XO. Have we time to check and/or complete the transaltion work? And if yes can you give me a deadline? Regards, Torello ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:38 AM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Korakurider, > > Thanks for reviewing the process page. > > Can you write up an explanation (or point me to the URL) on the steps > and actions needed for translation in each release? An example of what > happens and when for new languages is helpful too. Include what > notifications should go out as part of the steps. I wrote up the process for new languages on the Localization Wiki page, and used Cambodian Khmer as an example for recruiting localizers. There is still no management process for dealing with recruiting. I am the Administrator for Khmer and Haitian Kreyòl, because at the time of GiveOneGetOne there was no management process for connecting planned deployments with the need for localization projects in the languages of the target countries. > If you can show agreement on the content, I can link to it from the main > process page. > > Please also so suggest where in the process each piece of the > translation work needs to happen. That wont be easy as I don't have full > agreement on the milestones yet: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Process_Home#Milestones The simple answer for software localization is, As early as possible, well before deployment, so that there is time to develop materials for the teachers. It is vital to have some time to discuss the creation of computer terminology for languages that do not have it before the main localization effort begins. For other translation work, we don't have any visible process for deciding what materials we want to offer. XO manuals, teacher training, curriculum, lesson plans, textbooks, all exist in a state of chaos, rarely in more than one language and sometimes not at all anywhere. There are materials produced in one country that are not available to other countries speaking the same language. We need someone to tackle licensing for free publication and translation with as many publishers as possible, and with schools of education and other resource centers. I started the process with Josh Waitzkin's book The Art of Learning by introducing Josh and his agent to Walter Bender. I have no idea whether anybody currently at OLPC even knows about this opportunity. We also need to recruit people to prepare speech samples and dictionaries for the text-to-speech engine, spelling dictionaries, and other such materials. > However, if you can anchor your translation steps and process on one of > the milestones that will help. e.g. 30 days before first release > candidate is chosen (aka Change Control of Features)"first draft of all > translations must be entered in Pootle". Once we know what needs to > happen we can pin it to the right place. Start well back from there. When a country is negotiating for a purchase, management needs to let the localization team know which materials we want to show the purchasers well before shipment, maybe even before the contract is signed. > In short, tell us how you think it should be done and what you need to > be successful. Post it to the talk page: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Release_Process_Home > > get agreement from the key translation people doing the work and I will > try to ensure that the development team accommodates your needs as much > as possible. The development team is not the problem. > That's a lot to ask for! Let me know if my request is not clear or if we > should look for other people to help you get started. > > In my estimation, some of the best people on the project are working in > the translation area and I really appreciate your valuable contribution. > > Thanks, A pleasure, mostly. > Greg S > > Jul 2, 2008 at 12:20 AM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, all. > > > I have read though Greg's release process draft of OLPC > > > (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Process_Home) > > > and ReleaseTeam/Roadmap of SugarLabs > > > (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Roadmap). > > > But both draft documents haven't explained translation of software > > > (including activity) and others. > > > > > > Until midst of update.1 development, development of activities and > > > translation had been aligned to the road map > > > of XO software. it was straightforward; we were notified when window > > > for translation of whole project was opened/closed. > > > > > > Now our collaboration has become complex, because of SugarLabs's split. > > > Translators are still working with one unified portal (i.e Pootle), We need a separate repository for creating and translating textbooks, manuals, lesson plans, and curricula for students and teachers. > > > but I can't understand how and when each PO will be pulled to build. > > > Without those knowledge it would be difficult for translation > > > community to manage their schedule. > > > Could you please explain about this? Localization administrators commit the latest versions of localizations to git when a milestone is imminent. Co
Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Korakurider, > > Thanks for reviewing the process page. > > Can you write up an explanation (or point me to the URL) on the steps > and actions needed for translation in each release? An example of what > happens and when for new languages is helpful too. Include what > notifications should go out as part of the steps. > > If you can show agreement on the content, I can link to it from the main > process page. You ask too much for me :-) but here we go... Sayamindu and other L10n guru might have words on this. >From translator's point of view, things will go like this: a. Developers generate updated POT and commit it to repo. Then the change will be automatically merged to PO on Pootle. b. Translators enter or edit translations on Pootle. then test it with the latest software. c. Admins for language/project of Pootle commit translations to repo when they are comfortable with the translations. d. Developers build their package and the latest translations in repo will be pulled. e. Repeat from a or b. There are several important events for each development cycle: a) "String freeze" POT is friezed and translators enjoy translation without caring of string change. If developers want to change string/POT after that, prior communication would be needed. b) "Translation refresh" When committed translations in repo will be pulled into package build. It's ok if every build use the latest in repo. But if not, the milestone needs to be scheduled. c) "Translation freeze" Developers and testers might want to control it, while I 'm not sure whether this is needed actually: + I think commit from Pootle is done to trunk of repo (Update.1 Project on Pootle would be exception). But developer want to make branch for the specific release. + Set translation deadline for extensive testing of release candidate. Translators could easily manage their work if these milestones are scheduled in project plan for each release cycle. (see http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/localization/2007-December/000220.html ) > Please also so suggest where in the process each piece of the > translation work needs to happen. That wont be easy as I don't have full > agreement on the milestones yet: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Process_Home#Milestones > > However, if you can anchor your translation steps and process on one of > the milestones that will help. e.g. 30 days before first release > candidate is chosen (aka Change Control of Features)"first draft of all > translations must be entered in Pootle". Once we know what needs to > happen we can pin it to the right place. > > In short, tell us how you think it should be done and what you need to > be successful. Post it to the talk page: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Release_Process_Home > > get agreement from the key translation people doing the work and I will > try to ensure that the development team accommodates your needs as much > as possible. > > That's a lot to ask for! Let me know if my request is not clear or if we > should look for other people to help you get started. Now, my turn to ask :-) I don't know who is the right one to ask though... (1) They say SugarLabs is upstream of Sugar software and OLPC is one of distro. Then, which POs are still "owned" by OLPC? (Packaging/Pootle/Activation Server/OLPC Web site projects are obvious :-) For Sugar. will commit from Pootle go to upstream(SugarLab) or distro(OLPC)? Which will POT come from ? (2) SugarLabs have declared string freeze for 8.2. But I am not sure specifically which POT/POs are governed by their declaration. sugar.po/sugar-base.po/sugar-toolkit.po come to mind. And I think other activities in XO-Core (that are also included in their software stack as "Demo activities") aren't governed. right? (3) OLPC have stopped to bundle activities with base software. Now release cycle for them doesn't have to be aligned to XO software from OLPC's point of view. But I think It would be still better to try to let them aligned for refreshing translations. Note that even if the package is enough mature, additional build would be needed to pull new translations (new languages for instance). Right now it is hard to know when my updated translations for some activities will be pulled into the packages :-< Cheers, /Korakurider > In my estimation, some of the best people on the project are working in > the translation area and I really appreciate your valuable contribution. > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > Jul 2, 2008 at 12:20 AM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, all. > > > I have read though Greg's release process draft of OLPC > > > (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Process_Home) > > > and ReleaseTeam/Roadmap of SugarLabs > > > (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Roadmap). > > > But both draft documents haven't explained translation of software > > > (including activ
