Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 02:27:04PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 03:38:25AM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Make sense. Wonder why Michael has been using the rel- prefix? I attached the 'rel-' prefix because I think it very likely that we're going to invent other tags involving release numbers. What other kinds of tags including release numbers do you have in mind? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What other kinds of tags including release numbers do you have in mind? Build numbers, perhaps. But I am more concerned about the fact that our trac install tracks several projects/subprojects. So I'd propose xo-8.2.1 or something similar. So xs- can prefix XS related tags, and other subprojects (Sugar, various activities) can use it too without worrying about 8.1.1 being ambiguous. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 03:38:25AM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Make sense. Wonder why Michael has been using the rel- prefix? I attached the 'rel-' prefix because I think it very likely that we're going to invent other tags involving release numbers. I agree, I think we should just get rid of update.x. This has been the plan since the last nomenclature switch. Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
New milestone created. Kim On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 03:38:25AM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Make sense. Wonder why Michael has been using the rel- prefix? I attached the 'rel-' prefix because I think it very likely that we're going to invent other tags involving release numbers. I agree, I think we should just get rid of update.x. This has been the plan since the last nomenclature switch. Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
Does this mean that my suggestion to generalize to 8.2.x and 9.1.x etc. was rejected? I still feel that this could be more useful, because it would map the milestones to the EOL policy for releases. That is, anything in the 8.2.x milestone will be dropped when we hit 9.2.0, etc. And, as mentioned before, this would allow the least significant version number to be managed with the tagging scheme; otherwise we'll have to deal with the messiness of adding point release milestones on the fly... Can we rename the current 8.2.0 to 8.2 (or 8.2.x) and 9.1.0 to 9.1 (or 9.1.x) instead? - Eben On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Kim Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: New milestone created. Kim On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 03:38:25AM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Make sense. Wonder why Michael has been using the rel- prefix? I attached the 'rel-' prefix because I think it very likely that we're going to invent other tags involving release numbers. I agree, I think we should just get rid of update.x. This has been the plan since the last nomenclature switch. Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
Sorry Eben... I didn't mean to reject your suggestion; I guess I don't quite understand it. We rename the major releases to 8.2 and 9.1, and what do we do with the features and bug fixes for 8.1.1? Kim On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does this mean that my suggestion to generalize to 8.2.x and 9.1.x etc. was rejected? I still feel that this could be more useful, because it would map the milestones to the EOL policy for releases. That is, anything in the 8.2.x milestone will be dropped when we hit 9.2.0, etc. And, as mentioned before, this would allow the least significant version number to be managed with the tagging scheme; otherwise we'll have to deal with the messiness of adding point release milestones on the fly... Can we rename the current 8.2.0 to 8.2 (or 8.2.x) and 9.1.0 to 9.1 (or 9.1.x) instead? - Eben On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Kim Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: New milestone created. Kim On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 03:38:25AM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Make sense. Wonder why Michael has been using the rel- prefix? I attached the 'rel-' prefix because I think it very likely that we're going to invent other tags involving release numbers. I agree, I think we should just get rid of update.x. This has been the plan since the last nomenclature switch. Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
I'm not suggesting changes to the release naming at all. I'm arguing that a ticket slated for 8.1.1 should be in milestone 8.1.x and have a tag identifying it specifically as 8.1.1 The point is that 8.2.0 (for instance) is a major release milestone, but we will be supporting these releases for a full year, during which we'll no doubt have 8.2.1 through 8.2.4 (or more). I'm suggesting that we name the milestone 8.2.x (omitting the minor release number, but alluding to it with the variable) such that we don't have to add a bunch of bugfix milestones in the future, and can instead use the tagging schema proposed previously to shuffle tickets around within a major release milestone. Then, after a full year has passed and 8.2(.x) reaches EOL, we can easily call up any tickets at all in the 8.2.x milestone, move them forward to 9.1.x or drop them, and then remove the 8.2.x milestone completely. - Eben On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Kim Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Eben... I didn't mean to reject your suggestion; I guess I don't quite understand it. We rename the major releases to 8.2 and 9.1, and what do we do with the features and bug fixes for 8.1.1? Kim On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does this mean that my suggestion to generalize to 8.2.x and 9.1.x etc. was rejected? I still feel that this could be more useful, because it would map the milestones to the EOL policy for releases. That is, anything in the 8.2.x milestone will be dropped when we hit 9.2.0, etc. And, as mentioned before, this would allow the least significant version number to be managed with the tagging scheme; otherwise we'll have to deal with the messiness of adding point release milestones on the fly... Can we rename the current 8.2.0 to 8.2 (or 8.2.x) and 9.1.0 to 9.1 (or 9.1.x) instead? - Eben On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Kim Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: New milestone created. Kim On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 03:38:25AM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Make sense. Wonder why Michael has been using the rel- prefix? I attached the 'rel-' prefix because I think it very likely that we're going to invent other tags involving release numbers. I agree, I think we should just get rid of update.x. This has been the plan since the last nomenclature switch. Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:12 AM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 11:54:44PM -0400, Kim Quirk wrote: Can we use a combination of milestones and tagging? Seems like a fine idea to me. I have the same concerns Kim expressed, so totally agreed on this one. Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:12 AM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So if someone puts 'Groups' into Milestone 9.1.0; you might also tag it with rel-9.1.0:? because it is undefined and therefore not clear that can make that milestone without a lot more attention. As it gets broken down into smaller parts, some of those features might get rel-9.1.0:+ and some get -. Just so. There seem to be agreement about this, who do need to ask to create the milestone? I guess it should be Update.3 (9.1.0), following the current naming convention. Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:12 AM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So if someone puts 'Groups' into Milestone 9.1.0; you might also tag it with rel-9.1.0:? because it is undefined and therefore not clear that can make that milestone without a lot more attention. As it gets broken down into smaller parts, some of those features might get rel-9.1.0:+ and some get -. Just so. I would recommend minimizing the amount of syntax required for tagging: 9.1.0 9.1.0:? 9.1.0:+ 9.1.0:- seems sufficient to me. Thoughts? There seem to be agreement about this, who do need to ask to create the milestone? I guess it should be Update.3 (9.1.0), following the current naming convention. I don't see any benefit, personally, in dragging the update.x nomenclature forward. It oversimplifies release versions in the same way that monotonically increasing integers oversimplify activity versions. The more precise we can be about the way we name things the better off we'll be, especially if the tagging scheme depends on this agreed upon naming. Should we also clear out old milestones once they have been passed? Once a milestone has passed, we should take it upon ourselves to re-triage any tickets left in it, at which point it could simply disappear. Another alternative, which might actually prove better in the long run, would be to name the milestones 8.2 and 9.0 (or 8.2.x and 9.0.x), such that their scope is slightly more general, thus allowing the tagging scheme to manage the least-significant version number. In this manner, after releasing 8.2.0, we can simply re-tag any bugs in that milestone which we expect to go out in future bugfix releases as 8.2.1 etc. (leaving them in the 8.2.x milestone), or push them out further to 9.0.x milestone instead. - Eben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The time has come to slog through all of the tickets in trac, to prioritize the bugs that need to get fixed in the near future, and to push those that can wait out a bit. I had made it as far as the first ticket in the list before I began wishing that I could meaningfully differentiate between the Future release and non-existent Next release components. A next release component would provide a staging ground of sorts, both preventing tickets which aren't going to make the current release from getting pushed out into the vast Sea of Future Release, and providing a space for meaningfully triaging new tickets which we don't want to lose track of, but which arrive too late in the game to add to the current release roadmap. I propose next release as the component name literally, such that we don't need to forecast the next build precisely by number (ie. we don't need to decide Right Now that the next release will be called 9.1.0 or something else). Using a generic component allows us to keep track of the leading edge of all open tickets, and then move tickets back and forth between the next release and current release (eg. 8.2.0) components as necessary. Very good idea! Current release/Future release isn't really fine grained enough. It would be good if we could get this created soon, so that we can start triaging. Comments on the effectiveness of this approach are most welcome. Thanks! - Eben PS. While we're at it, we should probably eliminate the Future Features component and mark those tickets Future Release instead. Is there a differentiating factor there I'm unaware of? Thanks! +1 Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 09:35:33PM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I began wishing that I could meaningfully differentiate between the Future release and non-existent Next release components. Because we are unlikely to make a new major stable release within four months of shipping 8.2.0, our next major stable release will, in all probability, be named 9.1.0 -- the first major stable release of 2009. Looking out from today, I would expect it to land sometime in the first quarter of 2009. I could also easily imagine the creation of an 8.2.1 bugfix release to pick up minor improvements to 8.2.0 which are required after ship or which we lacked the resources to release on the first pass. As for how to represent these possibilities: I don't like the Milestone field because it fails to two important qualities of tickets: that they may have been considered for multiple releases and that they must be proposed, then accepted or rejected for release. Unfortunately, the Milestone field does not permit us to describe tickets which are in danger of slipping from a release, which are _proposed_ for a release but not yet accepted, or which have slipped through several releases. In reaction to these flaws, I am using a tagging scheme like: rel-8.2.0:- rel-9.1.0:? to describe tickets which are definitely not going into 8.2.0 and which have been proposed for 9.1.0. Does this scheme suit your needs? Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
Michael, If we can all agree on tagging and on using exactly the same tags (which is very difficult); then we still have to deal with the milestone issue as the entire roadmap and all the past expectations have been that the milestone DO mean something. It is difficult to give up on milestones (at least for me) and I'm really concerned if tags are not a 'pull down' that we will NOT successfully search on tags and get all the trac items. Can we use a combination of milestones and tagging? If you want something to get into milestone 9.1.0; you put it there AND you tag it with rel-8.2.0:- rel-9.1.0:? Maybe the milestone represents the desired location of the feature, and the tags represent current expectations as to whether it can make one release or another. So if someone puts 'Groups' into Milestone 9.1.0; you might also tag it with rel-9.1.0:? because it is undefined and therefore not clear that can make that milestone without a lot more attention. As it gets broken down into smaller parts, some of those features might get rel-9.1.0:+ and some get -. We might put 'Grab key scrolling' into 8.2.0 as the desired milestone; with rel-8.2.0:? rel-8.2.1:+ (not sure it can make 8.2.0, but really think it can make 8.2.1). I think all the trac items still open once we hit a milestone should get automatically pushed into the next milestone. Kim On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 09:35:33PM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I began wishing that I could meaningfully differentiate between the Future release and non-existent Next release components. Because we are unlikely to make a new major stable release within four months of shipping 8.2.0, our next major stable release will, in all probability, be named 9.1.0 -- the first major stable release of 2009. Looking out from today, I would expect it to land sometime in the first quarter of 2009. I could also easily imagine the creation of an 8.2.1 bugfix release to pick up minor improvements to 8.2.0 which are required after ship or which we lacked the resources to release on the first pass. As for how to represent these possibilities: I don't like the Milestone field because it fails to two important qualities of tickets: that they may have been considered for multiple releases and that they must be proposed, then accepted or rejected for release. Unfortunately, the Milestone field does not permit us to describe tickets which are in danger of slipping from a release, which are _proposed_ for a release but not yet accepted, or which have slipped through several releases. In reaction to these flaws, I am using a tagging scheme like: rel-8.2.0:- rel-9.1.0:? to describe tickets which are definitely not going into 8.2.0 and which have been proposed for 9.1.0. Does this scheme suit your needs? Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] Adding a Next release milestone in trac
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 11:54:44PM -0400, Kim Quirk wrote: Can we use a combination of milestones and tagging? Seems like a fine idea to me. Maybe the milestone represents the desired location of the feature, and the tags represent current expectations as to whether it can make one release or another. That sounds like an excellent dichotomy to me. So if someone puts 'Groups' into Milestone 9.1.0; you might also tag it with rel-9.1.0:? because it is undefined and therefore not clear that can make that milestone without a lot more attention. As it gets broken down into smaller parts, some of those features might get rel-9.1.0:+ and some get -. Just so. I think all the trac items still open once we hit a milestone should get automatically pushed into the next milestone. Why do you think they should be auto-pushed? Why to the next milestone instead of to a 'needs triage' milestone? Thanks for the great suggestions, Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
