Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO vs. wiki.laptop.org activities
AFAIK, there is not a mechanism in ASLO to replace the updater yet. Something to think about. But it may make more sense in the long run to have individual organizations maintain lists that point to the proper versions of activities that they want included/updated rather than centralizing it on WLO or WSLO. Apologies for all the acronyms. -walter On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi David, > > > The Sugar Labs Activities Portal seems to be holding up pretty > > well under load. My suggestion would be to start phasing out the > > activities pages on w.lt.o > > Are you just talking about http://wiki.laptop.org/go/ActivityName, or > the http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/* pages too? > > My understanding is the software updater stil uses the latter pages > because there isn't an equivalent in ASLO. Is that right? (SoaS > includes the software updater, so we shouldn't break it by removing > those pages before there's an ASLO equivalent.) > > - Chris. > -- > Chris Ball > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO vs. wiki.laptop.org activities
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > AFAIK, there is not a mechanism in ASLO to replace the updater yet. > Something to think about. Here is some back ground information on the server side update mechanism. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extension_Versioning,_Update_and_Compatibility david > But it may make more sense in the long run > to have individual organizations maintain lists that point to the > proper versions of activities that they want included/updated rather > than centralizing it on WLO or WSLO. > > Apologies for all the acronyms. > > -walter > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Chris Ball wrote: >> Hi David, >> >> > The Sugar Labs Activities Portal seems to be holding up pretty >> > well under load. My suggestion would be to start phasing out the >> > activities pages on w.lt.o >> >> Are you just talking about http://wiki.laptop.org/go/ActivityName, or >> the http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/* pages too? >> >> My understanding is the software updater stil uses the latter pages >> because there isn't an equivalent in ASLO. Is that right? (SoaS >> includes the software updater, so we shouldn't break it by removing >> those pages before there's an ASLO equivalent.) >> >> - Chris. >> -- >> Chris Ball >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO vs. wiki.laptop.org activities (was Re: ASLO Suggestion)
Hi,
Whatever the decision on this topic is, I would appreciate that the
interests of the already installed base are taken into account. I agree that
the Activities/All page is outdated and ASLO has a much better interface.
However, at least here in Uruguay, most of the kids and teachers rely on
Activities/All as a starting point to get new activities. This is because
Browse's home page had a link to the Activities page. It was very
frustrating when most of the activities were moved from Activities to
Activities/All without a proper communication to the users. I would not like
to see that happen again.
I understand that this is mostly an issue for Latu in the first place, OLPC
in the second place, and Sugarlabs in the third place. Would it be possible
to get an agreement between all involved parties about the best way to move
forward?
Regards,
Gabriel
2009/6/17 S Page
> [I removed some cc'd lists of which I'm not a member]
>
> Summary: Replacing http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All with
>{{obsolete|link=http://activities.sugarlabs.org}}
> sounds great to me.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Sean DALY wrote:
> > OLPC has their list (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All) and we
> > need to get that page to link to ASLO ...
>
> I added a bullet to this and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities :
>
> * http://activities.sugarlabs.org has lots of activities for recent
> versions of the [[Sugar]] environment, ''some'' of which may work on
> OLPC [[builds]].
>
> > ..., the information there is uneven
> > (contains some stillborn/abandonware).
>
> The current split organization is a mess and duplication provides
> twice as many opportunities to be wrong. There's a dozen other lists
> of "all activities" on wiki.laptop.org besides the Activities/All
> page, see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_queries , killing off
> some isn't going to hurt. So just be brave and change it to
> {{obsolete|link=http://activities.sugarlabs.org}}
>
> > Perhaps the easiest fix would
> > be to link from each Activity position on that page to that Activity's
> > ASLO page;
> Sure, you could replace the fancy activity descriptions on
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All with a simple link to their
> ASLO page.
>
> > people searching the Activity population would quickly
> > understand the different/parallel nature of the OLPC page and ASLO.
>
> If you can understand it, please explain it ;-) Activities/All
> claims "This is a list of all stable Activities that can be installed
> in the latest Sugar.", but
> * they are NOT all getting updated
> * "latest Sugar" meaning what? OLPC doesn't ship latest Sugar.
>
> > As
> > far as I know, there aren't any issues with the very latest versions
> > running on XO-1s, would I be correct in assuming this?
>
> You're incorrect. Sugar 0.84 is different from the Sugar 0.82.1 in
> OLPC release 8.2.0 and 8.2.1. I understand there are issues for
> Browse, Etoys, and Read which depend on libraries and already have
> separate "latest versions". I assume some other activities have
> problems. Unfortunately, most activity pages on a.sl.o and on
> wiki.laptop.org don't specify their compatibility clearly, and it's
> impossible to tell the difference between "Old version NN is still
> truly the latest version that works on OLPC's 8.2" and "Nobody's
> bloody updated this out-of-date info".
>
> > Or does OLPC
> > prefer to identify "known good" version, the ones updated through the
> > XO Control Panel?
>
> In OLPC release 8.2.0 and subsequent releases, the Software update
> control panel updates installed activities using a complex fallback
> mechanism involving *other, separate* pages such as Activities/8.2
> and/or Activities/G1G1/8.2 , see
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_update . Those subpages are where
> "known good version" info must live for Software update to work, while
> other activity pages are mostly useless out-of-date cruft. Maintaining
> all these pages is manual and complicated, see
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Maintaining_activity_web_information , and
> for many activities it isn't happening.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --
> =S Page
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO vs. wiki.laptop.org activities (was Re: ASLO Suggestion)
In the case of Turtle Art, I put a link from Activities/All to the
corresponding ALSO page; now I just update ALSO, but it should be easy
enough to follow that link. Easy enough to do for all the apps that
have migrated. What I haven't done is try to make any changes to which
activities are associated with the update process, e.g., g1g1 or
latu... I think this should not be the responsibility of individual
activity authors; the organizations themselves should be managing what
versions of what applications are loaded onto their machines by
default.
regards.
-walter
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Gabriel Eirea wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Whatever the decision on this topic is, I would appreciate that the
> interests of the already installed base are taken into account. I agree that
> the Activities/All page is outdated and ASLO has a much better interface.
>
> However, at least here in Uruguay, most of the kids and teachers rely on
> Activities/All as a starting point to get new activities. This is because
> Browse's home page had a link to the Activities page. It was very
> frustrating when most of the activities were moved from Activities to
> Activities/All without a proper communication to the users. I would not like
> to see that happen again.
>
> I understand that this is mostly an issue for Latu in the first place, OLPC
> in the second place, and Sugarlabs in the third place. Would it be possible
> to get an agreement between all involved parties about the best way to move
> forward?
>
> Regards,
>
> Gabriel
>
>
> 2009/6/17 S Page
>>
>> [I removed some cc'd lists of which I'm not a member]
>>
>> Summary: Replacing http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All with
>> {{obsolete|link=http://activities.sugarlabs.org}}
>> sounds great to me.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Sean DALY wrote:
>> > OLPC has their list (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All) and we
>> > need to get that page to link to ASLO ...
>>
>> I added a bullet to this and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities :
>>
>> * http://activities.sugarlabs.org has lots of activities for recent
>> versions of the [[Sugar]] environment, ''some'' of which may work on
>> OLPC [[builds]].
>>
>> > ..., the information there is uneven
>> > (contains some stillborn/abandonware).
>>
>> The current split organization is a mess and duplication provides
>> twice as many opportunities to be wrong. There's a dozen other lists
>> of "all activities" on wiki.laptop.org besides the Activities/All
>> page, see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_queries , killing off
>> some isn't going to hurt. So just be brave and change it to
>> {{obsolete|link=http://activities.sugarlabs.org}}
>>
>> > Perhaps the easiest fix would
>> > be to link from each Activity position on that page to that Activity's
>> > ASLO page;
>> Sure, you could replace the fancy activity descriptions on
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All with a simple link to their
>> ASLO page.
>>
>> > people searching the Activity population would quickly
>> > understand the different/parallel nature of the OLPC page and ASLO.
>>
>> If you can understand it, please explain it ;-) Activities/All
>> claims "This is a list of all stable Activities that can be installed
>> in the latest Sugar.", but
>> * they are NOT all getting updated
>> * "latest Sugar" meaning what? OLPC doesn't ship latest Sugar.
>>
>> > As
>> > far as I know, there aren't any issues with the very latest versions
>> > running on XO-1s, would I be correct in assuming this?
>>
>> You're incorrect. Sugar 0.84 is different from the Sugar 0.82.1 in
>> OLPC release 8.2.0 and 8.2.1. I understand there are issues for
>> Browse, Etoys, and Read which depend on libraries and already have
>> separate "latest versions". I assume some other activities have
>> problems. Unfortunately, most activity pages on a.sl.o and on
>> wiki.laptop.org don't specify their compatibility clearly, and it's
>> impossible to tell the difference between "Old version NN is still
>> truly the latest version that works on OLPC's 8.2" and "Nobody's
>> bloody updated this out-of-date info".
>>
>> > Or does OLPC
>> > prefer to identify "known good" version, the ones updated through the
>> > XO Control Panel?
>>
>> In OLPC release 8.2.0 and subsequent releases, the Software update
>> control panel updates installed activities using a complex fallback
>> mechanism involving *other, separate* pages such as Activities/8.2
>> and/or Activities/G1G1/8.2 , see
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_update . Those subpages are where
>> "known good version" info must live for Software update to work, while
>> other activity pages are mostly useless out-of-date cruft. Maintaining
>> all these pages is manual and complicated, see
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Maintaining_activity_web_information , and
>> for many activities it isn't happening.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> --
>> =S Page
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> sugar-de
Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO vs. wiki.laptop.org activities (was Re: ASLO Suggestion)
The Sugar Labs Activities Portal seems to be holding up pretty well under load.
My suggestion would be to start phasing out the activities pages on w.lt.o
Possible work flow. (Some of these may have been all ready)
1. Activity Developers - Start marking which Sugar version activities
versions will work. This is already part of the ASLO update
mechanism. It is how mozilla insures that update find to latest addon
activity works which works with a given browser version.
2. Core Sugar developers - Ensure that browser is reporting the
correct version of Sugar to aslo. Configure Sugar to update from aslo
by default in .84 or .86.
3. OLPC/Deploments update installed the update mechanism in existing
deployments as it becomes feasible. Continue to redirect activity
pages from w.lt.o to aslo as the aslo pages come on line.
This biggest issues that this change involves a compatibility break
between the using wiki pages and ASLO to serve activities. No one
likes compatibility breaks.
The first consensus point would be that aslo is the future activity
distribution mechanism.
From there, it becomes _the_entire_communities'_ responsibility to
make ASLO compelling enough that future and existing deployments and
deploying organizations use it by default.
If any specific deployment organization wants to retain the wiki base
update mechanism it is up to them to maintain it.
david
david
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 6:53 AM, S Page wrote:
> [I removed some cc'd lists of which I'm not a member]
>
> Summary: Replacing http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All with
> {{obsolete|link=http://activities.sugarlabs.org}}
> sounds great to me.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Sean DALY wrote:
>> OLPC has their list (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All) and we
>> need to get that page to link to ASLO ...
>
> I added a bullet to this and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities :
>
> * http://activities.sugarlabs.org has lots of activities for recent
> versions of the [[Sugar]] environment, ''some'' of which may work on
> OLPC [[builds]].
>
>> ..., the information there is uneven
>> (contains some stillborn/abandonware).
>
> The current split organization is a mess and duplication provides
> twice as many opportunities to be wrong. There's a dozen other lists
> of "all activities" on wiki.laptop.org besides the Activities/All
> page, see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_queries , killing off
> some isn't going to hurt. So just be brave and change it to
> {{obsolete|link=http://activities.sugarlabs.org}}
>
>> Perhaps the easiest fix would
>> be to link from each Activity position on that page to that Activity's
>> ASLO page;
> Sure, you could replace the fancy activity descriptions on
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All with a simple link to their
> ASLO page.
>
>> people searching the Activity population would quickly
>> understand the different/parallel nature of the OLPC page and ASLO.
>
> If you can understand it, please explain it ;-) Activities/All
> claims "This is a list of all stable Activities that can be installed
> in the latest Sugar.", but
> * they are NOT all getting updated
> * "latest Sugar" meaning what? OLPC doesn't ship latest Sugar.
>
>> As
>> far as I know, there aren't any issues with the very latest versions
>> running on XO-1s, would I be correct in assuming this?
>
> You're incorrect. Sugar 0.84 is different from the Sugar 0.82.1 in
> OLPC release 8.2.0 and 8.2.1. I understand there are issues for
> Browse, Etoys, and Read which depend on libraries and already have
> separate "latest versions". I assume some other activities have
> problems. Unfortunately, most activity pages on a.sl.o and on
> wiki.laptop.org don't specify their compatibility clearly, and it's
> impossible to tell the difference between "Old version NN is still
> truly the latest version that works on OLPC's 8.2" and "Nobody's
> bloody updated this out-of-date info".
>
>> Or does OLPC
>> prefer to identify "known good" version, the ones updated through the
>> XO Control Panel?
>
> In OLPC release 8.2.0 and subsequent releases, the Software update
> control panel updates installed activities using a complex fallback
> mechanism involving *other, separate* pages such as Activities/8.2
> and/or Activities/G1G1/8.2 , see
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_update . Those subpages are where
> "known good version" info must live for Software update to work, while
> other activity pages are mostly useless out-of-date cruft. Maintaining
> all these pages is manual and complicated, see
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Maintaining_activity_web_information , and
> for many activities it isn't happening.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --
> =S Page
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
___
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