Re: [sugar] Congratulations! but Sugar sucks

2008-07-25 Thread Jameson Chema Quinn
| 1. The datastore
| 2. OS Updates
| 3. File Sharing
| 4. Activity Modification
| 5. Bitfrost
| 6. Power management

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:02 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  really surprisingly short.  Each item on the list has been debated to a
  stationary point over the last two years, so all that is left is to make
 a
  final decision for the engineers to execute.  Each task could be
 completed
  or hugely improved by a single developer in a few months, provided that
 we
  do not allow changes to the requirements, and the developers are not
 asked
  to split their time and focus.

 I do not believe that either of these statements is correct.

 We are not lacking in decisions: we have substantially complete
 designs; we are lacking implementation.

 Each of your items is not the work of a single developer in a few
 months: solving these problems is realistically a year's work at
 least, if we have a single developer working full time on each.


I have experience with numbers 1, 3, and 5, and am the principal person
responsible for 4 right now. I would say that 3 and 4 are definitely within
the single dev in a few months time frame; depending on the definition, 4
is in the as soon as currently applied patches percolate into production
time frame. The further work on 4 - already started - is in the area of
activity signatures, which is actually encroaching on 5. In a few full-time
months of a single developer, this would put 4 at a place which other
platforms could envy, and make concrete strides towards 5, to the point
where security would be better, not worse, than other modern platforms
(though I agree that there is plenty more work to fulfill the true promise
of Bitfrost).

I agree that 1 is not so simple; while a rockstar developer might be able to
solve all our problems in a two-month all-nighter, 6 months to a year is a
more realistic timeframe to get something really solid and stable.

What I have accomplished - admittedly too slowly - on Develop, I have done
in under half-time commitment. I have made it pretty clear that I was
available for full-time work, pretty cheaply, but not for free. I could work
to contract, with payment working out to around what the GSoC students are
getting, and have Develop and Bitfrost in a significantly better place by
the end of September (activity signatures done, bitfrost privileges
by-application secure on that basis, the Terminal/Journal bitfrost
loophole mendedl; Develop collaboration/source control starting to be
usable).



 ps. and, of course, you've neglected software for kids that does
 things kids want to do, powerful and pervasive collaboration and
 mesh networking in your list of items.


All of which are slightly less sucky in their current state than the items
mentioned, I think, but definitely need work too.

To sum up: if this is a matter of resources, just hire people. Me, and
others who want it - I have heard marcopg complaining that he should be
full-time, I think. In my case, the worst that could happen is that I don't
come through, and, since I am asking for contract work, that would mean you
don't pay me, so it would be identical to current situation. The best would
be that for less than the price of a classroom-full of XOs, you would get
large steps on two of these list items in a couple of months.
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From way out in right field Re: [sugar] Congratulations! but Sugar sucks

2008-07-24 Thread Joel Rees

On 平成 20/07/25, at 6:53, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Bert Freudenberg wrote:
 | Am 24.07.2008 um 14:25 schrieb Benjamin M. Schwartz:
 |
 | 1. The datastore
 | 2. OS Updates
 | 3. File Sharing
 | 4. Activity Modification
 | 5. Bitfrost
 | 6. Power management
 |
 | Note that half of these items have nothing to do with Sugar, oo the
 | subject line is a bit misleading.

 Every one of them requires work on the Linux-based software stack that
 runs on the XO.  The name of that stack is Sugar, as far as I'm aware.
 Perhaps a breakdown would be helpful:

 1. The datastore:  Glucose
 2. OS Updates:  Ribose.  (Ribose is all the low-level software that  
 keeps
 Sugar running on the XO)
 3. File Sharing:  Glucose
 4. Activity Modification:  Glucose and Fructose.
 5. Bitfrost:  Glucose and Ribose.
 6. Power management:  Glucose, Ribose, and EC.
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I'm not an active participant anywhere, just someone who wanted to  
but has never had the time. And I hate to be the party pooper. But, ...

The keyword here is bloat. The source of the problem is the Sell. The  
Sell is Bill Gates's patented (with lots of prior art) checkmate move.

When I ran out of time to monitor the list, you guys were still  
warding off the Sell, but somewhere in the last half-year, you  
succumbed. The only defense was to let those people that are deceived  
by Microsoft's sell tactics alone, let them wake up and smell the  
coffee when they do.

That defense was set aside somewhere around the time somebody said,  
give the user su.

Features take storage space, and some features are deceptively simply  
to spec and impossible to implement.

There is no defense now. The only way forward is to go un-sell. Strip  
out the bloat and send someone around to apologize.

Joel Rees


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