Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Ixo X oxI]

One thing to note also,
   I have observed that many people (including myself) out of habit do a
quick 'double-tap' on the touchpad for a 'left-click' (which is standard for
most US 'typical' laptops).

I've noticed, 8 times out of 10 times touching the keyboard like this, the
cursor and sensitively of the touchpad goes 'wacko' (highly technical term,
I know. More specifically the 'over-sensitivity' issue:).  Especially in the
650 and 653 builds.  However, four-finger-salute touchpad-reset typically
fixes the problem.

Unfortunately, I am currently running latest joyride (now 1914), and the
problem still sporadically happens.

Might want to see if there is a trend on the last thing that the kids do on
the keyboard/touchpad, just before the wild-cursor issues happen.  (i.e.
double-tap, pushing hard, wiped with cloth, spit on keyboard, PB&J, tears of
frustration, broken broccoli, tap with pencil,  spilled lama juice, etc)

One idea of a 'control group', would be have different set/group of kids use
different pointers.. instead of whole finger. like their fingernail,
hover over pad without touching, different fingers, etc...

Hope that helps,
-iXo

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> thanks Carol, this instruction for disabling the corner sensitivity is
> extremely useful! I may use it in the custom build I roll out, some 3-4
> months from now.
>
> I hope some of the hardware techs at OLPC like Richard Smith can shed
> some light on the jumpy touchpad. Rebooting works for me as well but it
> really disrupts the learning experience.
>
>
> On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 07:46 -0700, Carol Lerche wrote:
> > The touchpad issues were a problem in NYC as well.  I noticed that it
> > was most problematic with certain kids who were very "touchy"...they
> > seemed to always have their hands fiddling with the touchpad.  Also
> > most common to occur when using paint or colors activity.  Only way I
> > could clear the problem was rebooting -- the 4 finger salute didn't
> > seem to work.
> >
> > On the wiki, this is the instruction for disabling the corner
> > sensitivity to bringing up the frame.  I haven't tested this myself.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Arjun Sarwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > Bryan,
> >
> > Similar issues were dominant at the India pilot too...
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Bryan Berry
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Day 3 of the pilots at Bishwamitra and Bashuki and couple of
> > issues have
> > >  come up
> > >
> > >  1. We are having a lot of trouble w/ jumpy cursors. You
> > know where the
> > >  touchpad behaves erratically. Is there an easy fix to this
> > problem?
> > >
> > >  we are using build 703, MP machines, and firmware Q2d14. We
> > have the
> > >  kids hold down the 4 corner buttons as recommended in the
> > XO user guide
> > >  but that doesn't seem to consistently fix the problem.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I thought there was a fix in Update.1 for the jumpy mouse
> > bug ?
> >
> > Other than that, we had observed that the touchpad behaved
> > differently
> > because many kids chose to use a larger/smaller area of their
> > fingers.
> > Since this is a capacitive touchpad, perhaps that has got
> > something to
> > do with the amount of finger area in contact, or the amount of
> > pressure that one puts (some kids chose to press harder and
> > harder on
> > the touchpad when they couldn't seem to get the cursor under
> > control)
> > ?
> >
> > >  Dust is an issue at the schools but that can't explain the
> > high rate of
> > >  jumpy cursors. Please assist
> > >
> >
> >
> > We didn't find any direct relation with dust as such.
> > Humidity, and
> > sweaty fingers, though, did seem to make things consistently
> > difficult.
> >
> > >  Suggestions?
> > >
> > >  2. For future reference: In general the kids and teachers
> > find it quite
> > >  confusing when they move the cursor to the corners of the
> > screen and the
> > >  Sugar frame pops up. The kids have learned the top row keys
> > very quickly
> > >  - faster than I thought - and they find the frame popping
> > up quite
> > >  confusing. They have learned to use the frame button
> > already.
> > >
> > >  pictures to come and a full write-up, I promise!
> >
> >
> > Looking forward!
> >
> > Good luck.
> > Arjun
> >
> > >
> > >  Bryan W. Berry
> > >  Systems Engineer
> > >  OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  ___

Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Andres Salomon]

On Fri, 02 May 2008 11:11:15 +0545
Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> dilinger/andres
> 
> does this build have the latest touchpad driver?
> 
> http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/olpc/streams/olpc3/build8/devel_jffs2/
> 
> I will download it and try it out


Nope.  We have not included the latest touchpad driver into a build yet.
You'd have to install a kernel in order to play with it.



> 
> On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 17:54 -0400, Andres Salomon wrote:
> > On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:34:30 +0200
> > Bernie Innocenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Bryan Berry wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 1. We are having a lot of trouble w/ jumpy cursors. You know where the
> > > > touchpad behaves erratically. Is there an easy fix to this problem?
> > > > 
> > > > we are using build 703, MP machines, and firmware Q2d14. We have the
> > > > kids hold down the 4 corner buttons as recommended in the XO user guide
> > > > but that doesn't seem to consistently fix the problem.
> > > > 
> > > > Dust is an issue at the schools but that can't explain the high rate of
> > > > jumpy cursors. Please assist
> > > 
> > > Can you explain in detail the behavior of the cursor when it's
> > > acting erratically?
> > > 
> > > There are many independent touchpad problems that look alike.
> > > Of these, the only one I could fix in software was this one:
> > >   http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/2804
> > > 
> > > The symptoms of #2804 are quite distinctive: the cursor jumps immediately
> > > towards the bottom-right corner of the screen each time you put your
> > > finger on the touchpad.
> > > 
> > > Dilinger and Smithbone have been working on the calibration issue,
> > > but I don't know if they finally succeeded.
> > > 
> > > Dilinger also had a cleaned up version of the driver, combining
> > > together several touchpad fixes, cleanups and re-enabling the pen
> > > tablet too (#5268). That patch-set had been held until after Update.1
> > > because it introduced yet another regression (#6079).
> > > 
> > 
> > Yeah, all the code's in master.  No known bugs in the touchpad driver, but
> > the kernel was just updated to 2.6.25.  Of course, the most important
> > change might be the PT-in-relative-mode thing; when the GS screws up,
> > just push down hard and use the PT to do what you want to do.
> > 
> > 
> 
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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Bryan Berry]

dilinger/andres

does this build have the latest touchpad driver?

http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/olpc/streams/olpc3/build8/devel_jffs2/

I will download it and try it out

On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 17:54 -0400, Andres Salomon wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:34:30 +0200
> Bernie Innocenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Bryan Berry wrote:
> > 
> > > 1. We are having a lot of trouble w/ jumpy cursors. You know where the
> > > touchpad behaves erratically. Is there an easy fix to this problem?
> > > 
> > > we are using build 703, MP machines, and firmware Q2d14. We have the
> > > kids hold down the 4 corner buttons as recommended in the XO user guide
> > > but that doesn't seem to consistently fix the problem.
> > > 
> > > Dust is an issue at the schools but that can't explain the high rate of
> > > jumpy cursors. Please assist
> > 
> > Can you explain in detail the behavior of the cursor when it's
> > acting erratically?
> > 
> > There are many independent touchpad problems that look alike.
> > Of these, the only one I could fix in software was this one:
> >   http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/2804
> > 
> > The symptoms of #2804 are quite distinctive: the cursor jumps immediately
> > towards the bottom-right corner of the screen each time you put your
> > finger on the touchpad.
> > 
> > Dilinger and Smithbone have been working on the calibration issue,
> > but I don't know if they finally succeeded.
> > 
> > Dilinger also had a cleaned up version of the driver, combining
> > together several touchpad fixes, cleanups and re-enabling the pen
> > tablet too (#5268). That patch-set had been held until after Update.1
> > because it introduced yet another regression (#6079).
> > 
> 
> Yeah, all the code's in master.  No known bugs in the touchpad driver, but
> the kernel was just updated to 2.6.25.  Of course, the most important
> change might be the PT-in-relative-mode thing; when the GS screws up,
> just push down hard and use the PT to do what you want to do.
> 
> 

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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Bryan Berry]

hey guys,

thanks to all who have replied to my issue w/ the jumpy cursor. I
haven't been able to test out the responses I have gotten because I have
been sick in bed for the last couple days. Will reply once I am coherent
enough to read the e-mails.
On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 11:39 +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
> Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
> 
> > We plan to work on this soon. The plan is to have a delay since the
> > mouse enters in the corner and before the frame is brought up. This
> > delay will be configurable with an slide in the control panel.
> 
> That seems like a great idea to improve usability.
> 

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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Bernie Innocenti]

Tomeu Vizoso wrote:

> We plan to work on this soon. The plan is to have a delay since the
> mouse enters in the corner and before the frame is brought up. This
> delay will be configurable with an slide in the control panel.

That seems like a great idea to improve usability.

-- 
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  \|_X_|  "It's an education project, not a laptop project"
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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> thanks Carol, this instruction for disabling the corner sensitivity is
>  extremely useful! I may use it in the custom build I roll out, some 3-4
>  months from now.

We plan to work on this soon. The plan is to have a delay since the
mouse enters in the corner and before the frame is brought up. This
delay will be configurable with an slide in the control panel.

Thanks for the feedback,

Tomeu
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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Bernie Innocenti]

Andres Salomon wrote:

> Yeah, all the code's in master.  No known bugs in the touchpad driver, but
> the kernel was just updated to 2.6.25.  Of course, the most important
> change might be the PT-in-relative-mode thing; when the GS screws up,
> just push down hard and use the PT to do what you want to do.

That's really cool, Dilinger!   The Turkish had asked me when this
would happen and I was embarrassed to admit there was no ETA for
it yet.

Is the new kernel already in one of our unstable builds?  Do you think
it would be dogfoodable enough for the faster branch, maybe?

On second thought, maybe faster should be used only for those changes
that make things, well, faster.  Otherwise it would quickly become a
dumping ground.

-- 
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  _||  Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/
  \|__=_|  "It's an education project, not a laptop project"
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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Andres Salomon]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:34:30 +0200
Bernie Innocenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bryan Berry wrote:
> 
> > 1. We are having a lot of trouble w/ jumpy cursors. You know where the
> > touchpad behaves erratically. Is there an easy fix to this problem?
> > 
> > we are using build 703, MP machines, and firmware Q2d14. We have the
> > kids hold down the 4 corner buttons as recommended in the XO user guide
> > but that doesn't seem to consistently fix the problem.
> > 
> > Dust is an issue at the schools but that can't explain the high rate of
> > jumpy cursors. Please assist
> 
> Can you explain in detail the behavior of the cursor when it's
> acting erratically?
> 
> There are many independent touchpad problems that look alike.
> Of these, the only one I could fix in software was this one:
>   http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/2804
> 
> The symptoms of #2804 are quite distinctive: the cursor jumps immediately
> towards the bottom-right corner of the screen each time you put your
> finger on the touchpad.
> 
> Dilinger and Smithbone have been working on the calibration issue,
> but I don't know if they finally succeeded.
> 
> Dilinger also had a cleaned up version of the driver, combining
> together several touchpad fixes, cleanups and re-enabling the pen
> tablet too (#5268). That patch-set had been held until after Update.1
> because it introduced yet another regression (#6079).
> 

Yeah, all the code's in master.  No known bugs in the touchpad driver, but
the kernel was just updated to 2.6.25.  Of course, the most important
change might be the PT-in-relative-mode thing; when the GS screws up,
just push down hard and use the PT to do what you want to do.


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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Bernie Innocenti]

Bryan Berry wrote:

> 1. We are having a lot of trouble w/ jumpy cursors. You know where the
> touchpad behaves erratically. Is there an easy fix to this problem?
> 
> we are using build 703, MP machines, and firmware Q2d14. We have the
> kids hold down the 4 corner buttons as recommended in the XO user guide
> but that doesn't seem to consistently fix the problem.
> 
> Dust is an issue at the schools but that can't explain the high rate of
> jumpy cursors. Please assist

Can you explain in detail the behavior of the cursor when it's
acting erratically?

There are many independent touchpad problems that look alike.
Of these, the only one I could fix in software was this one:
  http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/2804

The symptoms of #2804 are quite distinctive: the cursor jumps immediately
towards the bottom-right corner of the screen each time you put your
finger on the touchpad.

Dilinger and Smithbone have been working on the calibration issue,
but I don't know if they finally succeeded.

Dilinger also had a cleaned up version of the driver, combining
together several touchpad fixes, cleanups and re-enabling the pen
tablet too (#5268). That patch-set had been held until after Update.1
because it introduced yet another regression (#6079).

I don't know who has been working on it, if anybody.  Given our
current situation, I might soon find plenty of free time to work
on these things :-)

-- 
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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Bryan Berry]

thanks Carol, this instruction for disabling the corner sensitivity is
extremely useful! I may use it in the custom build I roll out, some 3-4
months from now.

I hope some of the hardware techs at OLPC like Richard Smith can shed
some light on the jumpy touchpad. Rebooting works for me as well but it
really disrupts the learning experience.


On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 07:46 -0700, Carol Lerche wrote:
> The touchpad issues were a problem in NYC as well.  I noticed that it
> was most problematic with certain kids who were very "touchy"...they
> seemed to always have their hands fiddling with the touchpad.  Also
> most common to occur when using paint or colors activity.  Only way I
> could clear the problem was rebooting -- the 4 finger salute didn't
> seem to work.  
> 
> On the wiki, this is the instruction for disabling the corner
> sensitivity to bringing up the frame.  I haven't tested this myself.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Arjun Sarwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> Bryan,
> 
> Similar issues were dominant at the India pilot too...
> 
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Bryan Berry
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Day 3 of the pilots at Bishwamitra and Bashuki and couple of
> issues have
> >  come up
> >
> >  1. We are having a lot of trouble w/ jumpy cursors. You
> know where the
> >  touchpad behaves erratically. Is there an easy fix to this
> problem?
> >
> >  we are using build 703, MP machines, and firmware Q2d14. We
> have the
> >  kids hold down the 4 corner buttons as recommended in the
> XO user guide
> >  but that doesn't seem to consistently fix the problem.
> >
> 
> 
> I thought there was a fix in Update.1 for the jumpy mouse
> bug ?
> 
> Other than that, we had observed that the touchpad behaved
> differently
> because many kids chose to use a larger/smaller area of their
> fingers.
> Since this is a capacitive touchpad, perhaps that has got
> something to
> do with the amount of finger area in contact, or the amount of
> pressure that one puts (some kids chose to press harder and
> harder on
> the touchpad when they couldn't seem to get the cursor under
> control)
> ?
> 
> >  Dust is an issue at the schools but that can't explain the
> high rate of
> >  jumpy cursors. Please assist
> >
> 
> 
> We didn't find any direct relation with dust as such.
> Humidity, and
> sweaty fingers, though, did seem to make things consistently
> difficult.
> 
> >  Suggestions?
> >
> >  2. For future reference: In general the kids and teachers
> find it quite
> >  confusing when they move the cursor to the corners of the
> screen and the
> >  Sugar frame pops up. The kids have learned the top row keys
> very quickly
> >  - faster than I thought - and they find the frame popping
> up quite
> >  confusing. They have learned to use the frame button
> already.
> >
> >  pictures to come and a full write-up, I promise!
> 
> 
> Looking forward!
> 
> Good luck.
> Arjun
> 
> >
> >  Bryan W. Berry
> >  Systems Engineer
> >  OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org
> >
> >
> >
> >  ___
> 
> >  Devel mailing list
> >  Devel@lists.laptop.org
> >  http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Arjun Sarwal
> Intern, One Laptop per Child
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> IRC: arjs on irc.freenode.net in #olpc, #olpc-health, #sugar
> Skype: arjunsarwal85
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Always do right," said Mark Twain. "This will gratify some people and
> astonish the rest."

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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Carol Lerche]

The touchpad issues were a problem in NYC as well.  I noticed that it was
most problematic with certain kids who were very "touchy"...they seemed to
always have their hands fiddling with the touchpad.  Also most common to
occur when using paint or colors activity.  Only way I could clear the
problem was rebooting -- the 4 finger salute didn't seem to work.

On the wiki, this is the
instructionfor
disabling the corner sensitivity to bringing up the frame.  I haven't
tested this myself.



On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Arjun Sarwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bryan,
>
> Similar issues were dominant at the India pilot too...
>
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Day 3 of the pilots at Bishwamitra and Bashuki and couple of issues have
> >  come up
> >
> >  1. We are having a lot of trouble w/ jumpy cursors. You know where the
> >  touchpad behaves erratically. Is there an easy fix to this problem?
> >
> >  we are using build 703, MP machines, and firmware Q2d14. We have the
> >  kids hold down the 4 corner buttons as recommended in the XO user guide
> >  but that doesn't seem to consistently fix the problem.
> >
>
> I thought there was a fix in Update.1 for the jumpy mouse bug ?
>
> Other than that, we had observed that the touchpad behaved differently
> because many kids chose to use a larger/smaller area of their fingers.
> Since this is a capacitive touchpad, perhaps that has got something to
> do with the amount of finger area in contact, or the amount of
> pressure that one puts (some kids chose to press harder and harder on
> the touchpad when they couldn't seem to get the cursor under control)
> ?
>
> >  Dust is an issue at the schools but that can't explain the high rate of
> >  jumpy cursors. Please assist
> >
>
> We didn't find any direct relation with dust as such. Humidity, and
> sweaty fingers, though, did seem to make things consistently
> difficult.
>
> >  Suggestions?
> >
> >  2. For future reference: In general the kids and teachers find it quite
> >  confusing when they move the cursor to the corners of the screen and
> the
> >  Sugar frame pops up. The kids have learned the top row keys very
> quickly
> >  - faster than I thought - and they find the frame popping up quite
> >  confusing. They have learned to use the frame button already.
> >
> >  pictures to come and a full write-up, I promise!
>
> Looking forward!
>
> Good luck.
> Arjun
>
> >
> >  Bryan W. Berry
> >  Systems Engineer
> >  OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org
> >
> >
> >
> >  ___
> >  Devel mailing list
> >  Devel@lists.laptop.org
> >  http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Arjun Sarwal
> Intern, One Laptop per Child
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> IRC: arjs on irc.freenode.net in #olpc, #olpc-health, #sugar
> Skype: arjunsarwal85
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>



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Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

[Arjun Sarwal]

Bryan,

Similar issues were dominant at the India pilot too...

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Day 3 of the pilots at Bishwamitra and Bashuki and couple of issues have
>  come up
>
>  1. We are having a lot of trouble w/ jumpy cursors. You know where the
>  touchpad behaves erratically. Is there an easy fix to this problem?
>
>  we are using build 703, MP machines, and firmware Q2d14. We have the
>  kids hold down the 4 corner buttons as recommended in the XO user guide
>  but that doesn't seem to consistently fix the problem.
>

I thought there was a fix in Update.1 for the jumpy mouse bug ?

Other than that, we had observed that the touchpad behaved differently
because many kids chose to use a larger/smaller area of their fingers.
Since this is a capacitive touchpad, perhaps that has got something to
do with the amount of finger area in contact, or the amount of
pressure that one puts (some kids chose to press harder and harder on
the touchpad when they couldn't seem to get the cursor under control)
?

>  Dust is an issue at the schools but that can't explain the high rate of
>  jumpy cursors. Please assist
>

We didn't find any direct relation with dust as such. Humidity, and
sweaty fingers, though, did seem to make things consistently
difficult.

>  Suggestions?
>
>  2. For future reference: In general the kids and teachers find it quite
>  confusing when they move the cursor to the corners of the screen and the
>  Sugar frame pops up. The kids have learned the top row keys very quickly
>  - faster than I thought - and they find the frame popping up quite
>  confusing. They have learned to use the frame button already.
>
>  pictures to come and a full write-up, I promise!

Looking forward!

Good luck.
Arjun

>
>  Bryan W. Berry
>  Systems Engineer
>  OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org
>
>
>
>  ___
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>



-- 
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Intern, One Laptop per Child
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
IRC: arjs on irc.freenode.net in #olpc, #olpc-health, #sugar
Skype: arjunsarwal85
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