Re: XO Gen 1.5
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Greg Smith gregsmit...@gmail.com wrote: The video decompression acceleration will be a huge value. The primary test is of course YouTube which I think means Flash flv. I would put that on an early test list and I hope there's no driver incompatible BS like with Geode. The H. codecs could pay off in better video conferencing. A live chat with Niue would have really warmed up my winter :-) As a reality check, hardware video decompression support has been really hard to integrate in all of the chips I've looked at so far: they are usually monkey-patched into the framebufer in ways which make them hard to integrate into window managers, and it's hard to actually get adobe and/or gnash to support them properly. I don't know the details of this particular chip -- maybe VIA has gotten it right and the gnash guys are motivated -- or maybe this email will encourage some budding hacker to give it a go... --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
The video decompression acceleration will be a huge value. The primary test is of course YouTube which I think means Flash flv. I would put that on an early test list and I hope there's no driver incompatible BS like with Geode. The H. codecs could pay off in better video conferencing. A live chat with Niue would have really warmed up my winter :-) As a reality check, hardware video decompression support has been really hard to integrate in all of the chips I've looked at so far: they are usually monkey-patched into the framebufer in ways which make them hard to integrate into window managers, and it's hard to actually get adobe and/or gnash to support them properly. I don't know the details of this particular chip -- maybe VIA has gotten it right and the gnash guys are motivated -- or maybe this email will encourage some budding hacker to give it a go... My experience is that is varies greatly from GPU chipset to X driver to video codec. Most will now do some sort of hardware based X-Video Motion Compensation but in terms of hardware assisted mpeg or h.264 encoding/decoding it all becomes very cloudy due to licensing and various other stuff so it ends up that very little is supported and ends up being small subsets of the total feature set and varies on the generation of chip or X driver. Harald Welte mentions in his blog [1] that VIA haven't yet released the manuals/code for the video decoding of the GPUs due to legal stuff (but it is due). But at least with SSE/SSE2/SSE3 there will be still reasonable gains wrt to encoding/decoding of instructions through the use of things like liboil. Peter [1] http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2008/11/22/#20081122-via-openchrome ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: XO Gen 1.5
Hi Ed, Wad, Chris et al, Awesome new hardware! That's one thing I loved about working at HW companies, the longer you survive the more hurdles you cross. IMHO 3D/2D is better than 2D only, if you can get it to work. I see bigger value in the video acceleration and input. The video capture is the most used thing by my kids and probably true for all XOs. The only down side is that the Record app over compresses and there's no option to adjust it. I poked around in the code briefly and there is a hard coded quality variable in a check-in months old. Aside from that app level challenge, the new chipset plus greater storage could allow super video capture! It even has a couple of video outputs which may need solder and a little logic not to mention power. TV out option would rock. However, none of the video looks like RS 170a and I doubt many people have HD in the target market. I wonder what connects to LVDS/TTL... The video decompression acceleration will be a huge value. The primary test is of course YouTube which I think means Flash flv. I would put that on an early test list and I hope there's no driver incompatible BS like with Geode. The H. codecs could pay off in better video conferencing. A live chat with Niue would have really warmed up my winter :-) The top value and the chance to break new ground is power. Software hooks to toggle on/off radio and throttle CPU could be break throughs but need lots of work. I hope you can entice GNU and others to work on that again. Some history on it here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Feature_roadmap/Improved_battery_life Nice call on fully backward compatible SW. The installed base is big and there's easily 2 - 3 years more SW work to get the most out of them. Also glad to see plans for an 8.2 line but get the drivers upstream ASAP if not sooner. I can't wait to see if crashes and OOM kill screw ups disappear with 8.2 on new HW. I believe Michael and team's position was that the same kernel worked better/fine on systems with more RAM. Cost us 2+ weeks slip on the 8.2 release to try and fix it, no we can test with double the RAM. Glad to see a UART on there. I just hope its a 16550 or later so I can use my high baud modem :-) Nice work. Good luck in the final integration and test. Thanks, Greg S ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
I do not know. I tried to download the specification to their processor and gave up after seeing the massive registration and request forms required. It is clearly ridiculous. If somebody has the spec please put it onto the wiki, please. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Hardware_specification_1.5 That's where I've been putting info. Please edit it to improve it as we learn more. I haven't found anything besides trivial specs for the CPU chip (i.e. they don't even say which instruction set it implements). If, as alleged, the VX855 companion chip is similar to the VX800, then there are much more detailed (impenetrable) specs for that. John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John Watlington wrote: The enabling chipset is hot off the fab line, the VX855 [2]. This single chip provides ... a 3D graphics engine, an HD video decoder It's worth remembering that the only existing driver that supports either of these features is a pure binary blob. The Openchrome drivers have no 3D support, never mind video decode support. Even their Xv support is glitchy. In other words, this GPU represents a regression, compared to the Geode LX, unless you're willing to run with (famously unreliable, unsupported) binary-only drivers. So don't get too excited. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkns6IoACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSCTQCfacYu5ZvaF1mqPga0vwiNvvUZ u5YAnRNSmM+0FtuaRL2TTCGhjU/Pk4ly =5D6T -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
John Watlington wrote: The enabling chipset is hot off the fab line, the VX855 [2]. This single chip provides ... a 3D graphics engine, an HD video decoder It's worth remembering that the only existing driver that supports either of these features is a pure binary blob. The Openchrome drivers have no 3D support, never mind video decode support. Even their Xv support is glitchy. In other words, this GPU represents a regression, compared to the Geode LX, unless you're willing to run with (famously unreliable, unsupported) binary-only drivers. So don't get too excited. But this should improve with VIA now having employed Harald Welte of gnuviolations.org fame to help them move forward in the open source world. They have released their drivers and some manuals for their GPUs now. So no 3D just yet, but then that's not exactly a regression compared to the geeode video either. Details of Harald's VIA related OSS releases can be seen at the link below including links to various HW programming manuals. Peter http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/linux/via/index.html ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
But this should improve with VIA now having employed Harald Welte of gnuviolations.org fame to help them move forward in the open source world. They have released their drivers and some manuals for their GPUs now. So no 3D just yet, but then that's not exactly a regression compared to the geeode video either. Details of Harald's VIA related OSS releases can be seen at the link below including links to various HW programming manuals. I do not know. I tried to download the specification to their processor and gave up after seeing the massive registration and request forms required. It is clearly ridiculous. If somebody has the spec please put it onto the wiki, please. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
I was referring to flash capacity which will enable it to run the filesystem uncompressed. On gen1 you have no swap, scarce RAM and a compressed filesystem that the CPU must deal with when it needs to get something from the flash, which is mostly all the time IMHO. Best regards On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Bobby Powers bobbypow...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 19:27, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:24 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote: OLPC is excited to announce that a refresh of the XO-1 laptop is in progress. In our continued effort to maintain a low price point, OLPC is refreshing the hardware to take advantage of the latest component technologies. This refresh (Gen 1.5) is separate from the Gen 2.0 project, and will continue using the same industrial design and batteries as Gen 1. The design goal is to provide an overall update of the system within the same ID and external appearance. In order to maximize compatibility with existing software, this refresh will continue with an x86 processor, using a chipset from VIA. The memory will be increased to 1 GB of DDR2 SDRAM, and the built-in storage will be 4 GB of NAND Flash with an option for 8 GB (installed at manufacture). The best news, probably. The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. I'm hoping for a lot closer to 1GHz than 400MHz or it won't be much different than the current 433MHz Geode LX. It's still a very slow, in-order architecture. Not sure about Windows or GNOME, but my IMO improvements in storage (so NAND plus the filesystem used) and graphics hardware (plus it's support by drivers) can improve a lot the performance of Sugar without touching the processing power of the cpu. Indeed, I wouldn't expect to see a revision with more than 512MB of RAM but the announcement said they were upping the RAM to 1GB DDR2. it sure will be useful. If the distro is able to fit the 4GB without compression, while leaving enough free space, that will surely alleviate the CPU also. Excellent news for sure! Best regards, Tiago Marques Regards, Tomeu Best regards The enabling chipset is hot off the fab line, the VX855 [2]. This single chip provides the memory interface, a 3D graphics engine, an HD video decoder, USB, SDIO, and other system interface and management functions, in a low power and small footprint package. One change induced by the chipset change is a move from AC'97 to HD Audio. This brings higher sampling rates and allows an upgrade to a stereo external microphone (and DC sensor) input. The CaFE chip is being retired, and replaced with an external Flash management controller, possibly one of the low cost SSD controllers currently being tested. The camera will now be tied directly to the VX855's video capture port. The network interface will be upgraded to an 88W8686, which will halve its power dissipation and move it to an SDIO interface (further dropping the power consumption). The current goal is to locate it in a removable module, allowing its replacement for repair. It will remain powered while the laptop suspends, waking the laptop if a packet addressed to it arrives. It is likely that early production models will not directly support 802.11s (i.e. forwarding mesh packets while the interface is asleep), but we are working with Marvell on several different 802.11s solutions. Gen 1.5 will continue with the existing display, although OLPC is working with PixelQi to try to improve the brightness and efficiency of the screen. The DCON is retained (even though the VX855 includes much of its functionality) as it provides the low power interface and the timing controller functions for the existing display. Overall, the target is to match the Gen 1 XO-1 in power consumption while making aggressive suspend easier, and in price (while changing to components which are more likely to decrease in price). It is likely that both goals can be met. We also expect the Gen 1.5 machines to ship with an OLPC 8.2.x software release, modified to support Gen 1.5's new hardware but otherwise unchanged from the current production software release and compatible with our current software in the field. Gen 1.5 machines will be deployed in environments already populated by Gen 1 machines, so seamless software interoperability is an important goal. Early versions of the hardware (bare
Re: XO Gen 1.5
Hi! I would like to ask these questions from OLPC staff: Does this also mean that people who already own XOs will find that new software is going to require a computer more powerful than they currently have? I thought that that was something that was going to be specifically avoided. This is going to be a hard trap not to fall into, although several of the primary activities (Browse and Write) are based on desktop products that are not necessarily aimed at low-power or embedded systems, so I don't know if things will actually be any different. What about the integrated 3D support? Are you planning to support OpenGL? In that case there will be a very wide performance gap (like 3D acceleration vs no 3D acceleration)... Also it seems that this machine will be on par with current Netbooks. Are you planning to sell it through normal distribution channels? (As I am interested in theat still no Netbook has the display or the indestructible design my XO has.) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
Am 18.04.2009 um 08:16 schrieb NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu: Hi! I would like to ask these questions from OLPC staff: Does this also mean that people who already own XOs will find that new software is going to require a computer more powerful than they currently have? I thought that that was something that was going to be specifically avoided. This is going to be a hard trap not to fall into, although several of the primary activities (Browse and Write) are based on desktop products that are not necessarily aimed at low-power or embedded systems, so I don't know if things will actually be any different. What about the integrated 3D support? Are you planning to support OpenGL? In that case there will be a very wide performance gap (like 3D acceleration vs no 3D acceleration)... I honestly can't think of a use-case for including any sort of 3D acceleration into the basic Sugar and activities. There's about a million significantly more important things that people should be working on before even thinking about 3D (IMHO). Also it seems that this machine will be on par with current Netbooks. Are you planning to sell it through normal distribution channels? (As I am interested in theat still no Netbook has the display or the indestructible design my XO has.) I'd be very surprised if OLPC started selling the XO-1.5 via regular sales channels. Christoph ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
On 18 Apr 2009, at 14:23, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: Am 18.04.2009 um 08:16 schrieb NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu: Hi! I would like to ask these questions from OLPC staff: Does this also mean that people who already own XOs will find that new software is going to require a computer more powerful than they currently have? I thought that that was something that was going to be specifically avoided. This is going to be a hard trap not to fall into, although several of the primary activities (Browse and Write) are based on desktop products that are not necessarily aimed at low-power or embedded systems, so I don't know if things will actually be any different. What about the integrated 3D support? Are you planning to support OpenGL? In that case there will be a very wide performance gap (like 3D acceleration vs no 3D acceleration)... I honestly can't think of a use-case for including any sort of 3D acceleration into the basic Sugar and activities. There's about a million significantly more important things that people should be working on before even thinking about 3D (IMHO). You need to think harder ;-) 2 words... Google Earth. I'm working on a compromise solution given there is no 3d support on the XO. It's a ~half screen resolution rotating globe that will accept khtml coords (compatibility with outside world). After much poking I've settled on about 3-4Mb of pre-rendered rotating Earth movie, from 3 different latitude angles; this gives smooth rotation around the planet, and 3 view angles north, equator, and south. Then planning to layer on city/country label markers. Idea for sharing is so that you can create a list of geotags (probably just textual for now) and share them with someone else. Don't hold your breath, I seem to be a slow worker with OSS tools and APIs, but it is happening. Regards, --Gary Also it seems that this machine will be on par with current Netbooks. Are you planning to sell it through normal distribution channels? (As I am interested in theat still no Netbook has the display or the indestructible design my XO has.) I'd be very surprised if OLPC started selling the XO-1.5 via regular sales channels. Christoph ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
This sounds great, the description makes it sound as if the plastic will be the same. Does this imply that a new mother board will fit into the existing plastic? Mark On Apr 17, 2009 Friday, at 2:24:21:0, John Watlington wrote: OLPC is excited to announce that a refresh of the XO-1 laptop is in progress. In our continued effort to maintain a low price point, OLPC is refreshing the hardware to take advantage of the latest component technologies. This refresh (Gen 1.5) is separate from the Gen 2.0 project, and will continue using the same industrial design and batteries as Gen 1. The design goal is to provide an overall update of the system within the same ID and external appearance. In order to maximize compatibility with existing software, this refresh will continue with an x86 processor, using a chipset from VIA. The memory will be increased to 1 GB of DDR2 SDRAM, and the built-in storage will be 4 GB of NAND Flash with an option for 8 GB (installed at manufacture). The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. The enabling chipset is hot off the fab line, the VX855 [2]. This single chip provides the memory interface, a 3D graphics engine, an HD video decoder, USB, SDIO, and other system interface and management functions, in a low power and small footprint package. One change induced by the chipset change is a move from AC'97 to HD Audio. This brings higher sampling rates and allows an upgrade to a stereo external microphone (and DC sensor) input. The CaFE chip is being retired, and replaced with an external Flash management controller, possibly one of the low cost SSD controllers currently being tested. The camera will now be tied directly to the VX855's video capture port. The network interface will be upgraded to an 88W8686, which will halve its power dissipation and move it to an SDIO interface (further dropping the power consumption). The current goal is to locate it in a removable module, allowing its replacement for repair. It will remain powered while the laptop suspends, waking the laptop if a packet addressed to it arrives. It is likely that early production models will not directly support 802.11s (i.e. forwarding mesh packets while the interface is asleep), but we are working with Marvell on several different 802.11s solutions. Gen 1.5 will continue with the existing display, although OLPC is working with PixelQi to try to improve the brightness and efficiency of the screen. The DCON is retained (even though the VX855 includes much of its functionality) as it provides the low power interface and the timing controller functions for the existing display. Overall, the target is to match the Gen 1 XO-1 in power consumption while making aggressive suspend easier, and in price (while changing to components which are more likely to decrease in price). It is likely that both goals can be met. We also expect the Gen 1.5 machines to ship with an OLPC 8.2.x software release, modified to support Gen 1.5's new hardware but otherwise unchanged from the current production software release and compatible with our current software in the field. Gen 1.5 machines will be deployed in environments already populated by Gen 1 machines, so seamless software interoperability is an important goal. Early versions of the hardware (bare board) should be available for driver development at the end of May. A larger number of prototype laptops (several hundred) for software development and testing will become available around the end of August. The OLPC contributors program will be the preferred way of requesting a Gen 1.5 machine for testing your software for compatibility or development. We hope to use the contributors program to ensure Gen 1.5 support for the wide variety of application and OS solutions created for Gen 1.0. We're excited to be finally able to make this news public. While members of the technical team have been working on this for several months, it was not until last week that we could with any certainty say that we were going to refresh the hardware and what that refresh was likely to be. We're now committed to this project and look forward to working with you to make it happen. ---John, Ed, and the OLPC Tech team. [1] http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/c7-m_ulv/ [2] http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/v-series/vx855 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:24 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote: OLPC is excited to announce that a refresh of the XO-1 laptop is in progress. In our continued effort to maintain a low price point, OLPC is refreshing the hardware to take advantage of the latest component technologies. This refresh (Gen 1.5) is separate from the Gen 2.0 project, and will continue using the same industrial design and batteries as Gen 1. The design goal is to provide an overall update of the system within the same ID and external appearance. In order to maximize compatibility with existing software, this refresh will continue with an x86 processor, using a chipset from VIA. The memory will be increased to 1 GB of DDR2 SDRAM, and the built-in storage will be 4 GB of NAND Flash with an option for 8 GB (installed at manufacture). The best news, probably. The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. I'm hoping for a lot closer to 1GHz than 400MHz or it won't be much different than the current 433MHz Geode LX. It's still a very slow, in-order architecture. Best regards The enabling chipset is hot off the fab line, the VX855 [2]. This single chip provides the memory interface, a 3D graphics engine, an HD video decoder, USB, SDIO, and other system interface and management functions, in a low power and small footprint package. One change induced by the chipset change is a move from AC'97 to HD Audio. This brings higher sampling rates and allows an upgrade to a stereo external microphone (and DC sensor) input. The CaFE chip is being retired, and replaced with an external Flash management controller, possibly one of the low cost SSD controllers currently being tested. The camera will now be tied directly to the VX855's video capture port. The network interface will be upgraded to an 88W8686, which will halve its power dissipation and move it to an SDIO interface (further dropping the power consumption). The current goal is to locate it in a removable module, allowing its replacement for repair. It will remain powered while the laptop suspends, waking the laptop if a packet addressed to it arrives. It is likely that early production models will not directly support 802.11s (i.e. forwarding mesh packets while the interface is asleep), but we are working with Marvell on several different 802.11s solutions. Gen 1.5 will continue with the existing display, although OLPC is working with PixelQi to try to improve the brightness and efficiency of the screen. The DCON is retained (even though the VX855 includes much of its functionality) as it provides the low power interface and the timing controller functions for the existing display. Overall, the target is to match the Gen 1 XO-1 in power consumption while making aggressive suspend easier, and in price (while changing to components which are more likely to decrease in price). It is likely that both goals can be met. We also expect the Gen 1.5 machines to ship with an OLPC 8.2.x software release, modified to support Gen 1.5's new hardware but otherwise unchanged from the current production software release and compatible with our current software in the field. Gen 1.5 machines will be deployed in environments already populated by Gen 1 machines, so seamless software interoperability is an important goal. Early versions of the hardware (bare board) should be available for driver development at the end of May. A larger number of prototype laptops (several hundred) for software development and testing will become available around the end of August. The OLPC contributors program will be the preferred way of requesting a Gen 1.5 machine for testing your software for compatibility or development. We hope to use the contributors program to ensure Gen 1.5 support for the wide variety of application and OS solutions created for Gen 1.0. We're excited to be finally able to make this news public. While members of the technical team have been working on this for several months, it was not until last week that we could with any certainty say that we were going to refresh the hardware and what that refresh was likely to be. We're now committed to this project and look forward to working with you to make it happen. ---John, Ed, and the OLPC Tech team. [1] http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/c7-m_ulv/ [2] http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/v-series/vx855 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. I'm hoping for a lot closer to 1GHz than 400MHz or it won't be much different than the current 433MHz Geode LX. It's still a very slow, in-order architecture. I think they mean the CPU will have a 1Ghz speed that can automatically throttled back to 400Mhz if its not being used or gets to hot in the environment its being used. Bit like speed step in the intel CPUs, well at least that's how I read it. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 19:27, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:24 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote: OLPC is excited to announce that a refresh of the XO-1 laptop is in progress. In our continued effort to maintain a low price point, OLPC is refreshing the hardware to take advantage of the latest component technologies. This refresh (Gen 1.5) is separate from the Gen 2.0 project, and will continue using the same industrial design and batteries as Gen 1. The design goal is to provide an overall update of the system within the same ID and external appearance. In order to maximize compatibility with existing software, this refresh will continue with an x86 processor, using a chipset from VIA. The memory will be increased to 1 GB of DDR2 SDRAM, and the built-in storage will be 4 GB of NAND Flash with an option for 8 GB (installed at manufacture). The best news, probably. The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. I'm hoping for a lot closer to 1GHz than 400MHz or it won't be much different than the current 433MHz Geode LX. It's still a very slow, in-order architecture. Not sure about Windows or GNOME, but my IMO improvements in storage (so NAND plus the filesystem used) and graphics hardware (plus it's support by drivers) can improve a lot the performance of Sugar without touching the processing power of the cpu. Regards, Tomeu Best regards The enabling chipset is hot off the fab line, the VX855 [2]. This single chip provides the memory interface, a 3D graphics engine, an HD video decoder, USB, SDIO, and other system interface and management functions, in a low power and small footprint package. One change induced by the chipset change is a move from AC'97 to HD Audio. This brings higher sampling rates and allows an upgrade to a stereo external microphone (and DC sensor) input. The CaFE chip is being retired, and replaced with an external Flash management controller, possibly one of the low cost SSD controllers currently being tested. The camera will now be tied directly to the VX855's video capture port. The network interface will be upgraded to an 88W8686, which will halve its power dissipation and move it to an SDIO interface (further dropping the power consumption). The current goal is to locate it in a removable module, allowing its replacement for repair. It will remain powered while the laptop suspends, waking the laptop if a packet addressed to it arrives. It is likely that early production models will not directly support 802.11s (i.e. forwarding mesh packets while the interface is asleep), but we are working with Marvell on several different 802.11s solutions. Gen 1.5 will continue with the existing display, although OLPC is working with PixelQi to try to improve the brightness and efficiency of the screen. The DCON is retained (even though the VX855 includes much of its functionality) as it provides the low power interface and the timing controller functions for the existing display. Overall, the target is to match the Gen 1 XO-1 in power consumption while making aggressive suspend easier, and in price (while changing to components which are more likely to decrease in price). It is likely that both goals can be met. We also expect the Gen 1.5 machines to ship with an OLPC 8.2.x software release, modified to support Gen 1.5's new hardware but otherwise unchanged from the current production software release and compatible with our current software in the field. Gen 1.5 machines will be deployed in environments already populated by Gen 1 machines, so seamless software interoperability is an important goal. Early versions of the hardware (bare board) should be available for driver development at the end of May. A larger number of prototype laptops (several hundred) for software development and testing will become available around the end of August. The OLPC contributors program will be the preferred way of requesting a Gen 1.5 machine for testing your software for compatibility or development. We hope to use the contributors program to ensure Gen 1.5 support for the wide variety of application and OS solutions created for Gen 1.0. We're excited to be finally able to make this news public. While members of the technical team have been working on this for several months, it was not until last week that we could with any certainty say that we were going to refresh the hardware and what that refresh was likely to be. We're now committed to this project and look forward to working with you to make it happen. ---John, Ed, and the OLPC Tech team. [1] http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/c7-m_ulv/ [2] http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/v-series/vx855
Re: XO Gen 1.5
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 19:27, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:24 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote: OLPC is excited to announce that a refresh of the XO-1 laptop is in progress. In our continued effort to maintain a low price point, OLPC is refreshing the hardware to take advantage of the latest component technologies. This refresh (Gen 1.5) is separate from the Gen 2.0 project, and will continue using the same industrial design and batteries as Gen 1. The design goal is to provide an overall update of the system within the same ID and external appearance. In order to maximize compatibility with existing software, this refresh will continue with an x86 processor, using a chipset from VIA. The memory will be increased to 1 GB of DDR2 SDRAM, and the built-in storage will be 4 GB of NAND Flash with an option for 8 GB (installed at manufacture). The best news, probably. The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. I'm hoping for a lot closer to 1GHz than 400MHz or it won't be much different than the current 433MHz Geode LX. It's still a very slow, in-order architecture. Not sure about Windows or GNOME, but my IMO improvements in storage (so NAND plus the filesystem used) and graphics hardware (plus it's support by drivers) can improve a lot the performance of Sugar without touching the processing power of the cpu. Indeed, I wouldn't expect to see a revision with more than 512MB of RAM but it sure will be useful. If the distro is able to fit the 4GB without compression, while leaving enough free space, that will surely alleviate the CPU also. Excellent news for sure! Best regards, Tiago Marques Regards, Tomeu Best regards The enabling chipset is hot off the fab line, the VX855 [2]. This single chip provides the memory interface, a 3D graphics engine, an HD video decoder, USB, SDIO, and other system interface and management functions, in a low power and small footprint package. One change induced by the chipset change is a move from AC'97 to HD Audio. This brings higher sampling rates and allows an upgrade to a stereo external microphone (and DC sensor) input. The CaFE chip is being retired, and replaced with an external Flash management controller, possibly one of the low cost SSD controllers currently being tested. The camera will now be tied directly to the VX855's video capture port. The network interface will be upgraded to an 88W8686, which will halve its power dissipation and move it to an SDIO interface (further dropping the power consumption). The current goal is to locate it in a removable module, allowing its replacement for repair. It will remain powered while the laptop suspends, waking the laptop if a packet addressed to it arrives. It is likely that early production models will not directly support 802.11s (i.e. forwarding mesh packets while the interface is asleep), but we are working with Marvell on several different 802.11s solutions. Gen 1.5 will continue with the existing display, although OLPC is working with PixelQi to try to improve the brightness and efficiency of the screen. The DCON is retained (even though the VX855 includes much of its functionality) as it provides the low power interface and the timing controller functions for the existing display. Overall, the target is to match the Gen 1 XO-1 in power consumption while making aggressive suspend easier, and in price (while changing to components which are more likely to decrease in price). It is likely that both goals can be met. We also expect the Gen 1.5 machines to ship with an OLPC 8.2.x software release, modified to support Gen 1.5's new hardware but otherwise unchanged from the current production software release and compatible with our current software in the field. Gen 1.5 machines will be deployed in environments already populated by Gen 1 machines, so seamless software interoperability is an important goal. Early versions of the hardware (bare board) should be available for driver development at the end of May. A larger number of prototype laptops (several hundred) for software development and testing will become available around the end of August. The OLPC contributors program will be the preferred way of requesting a Gen 1.5 machine for testing your software for compatibility or development. We hope to use the contributors program to ensure Gen 1.5 support for the wide variety of application and OS solutions created for Gen 1.0. We're excited to be finally able to make this news public. While members of the
Re: XO Gen 1.5
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 19:27, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:24 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote: OLPC is excited to announce that a refresh of the XO-1 laptop is in progress. In our continued effort to maintain a low price point, OLPC is refreshing the hardware to take advantage of the latest component technologies. This refresh (Gen 1.5) is separate from the Gen 2.0 project, and will continue using the same industrial design and batteries as Gen 1. The design goal is to provide an overall update of the system within the same ID and external appearance. In order to maximize compatibility with existing software, this refresh will continue with an x86 processor, using a chipset from VIA. The memory will be increased to 1 GB of DDR2 SDRAM, and the built-in storage will be 4 GB of NAND Flash with an option for 8 GB (installed at manufacture). The best news, probably. The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. I'm hoping for a lot closer to 1GHz than 400MHz or it won't be much different than the current 433MHz Geode LX. It's still a very slow, in-order architecture. Not sure about Windows or GNOME, but my IMO improvements in storage (so NAND plus the filesystem used) and graphics hardware (plus it's support by drivers) can improve a lot the performance of Sugar without touching the processing power of the cpu. Indeed, I wouldn't expect to see a revision with more than 512MB of RAM but the announcement said they were upping the RAM to 1GB DDR2. it sure will be useful. If the distro is able to fit the 4GB without compression, while leaving enough free space, that will surely alleviate the CPU also. Excellent news for sure! Best regards, Tiago Marques Regards, Tomeu Best regards The enabling chipset is hot off the fab line, the VX855 [2]. This single chip provides the memory interface, a 3D graphics engine, an HD video decoder, USB, SDIO, and other system interface and management functions, in a low power and small footprint package. One change induced by the chipset change is a move from AC'97 to HD Audio. This brings higher sampling rates and allows an upgrade to a stereo external microphone (and DC sensor) input. The CaFE chip is being retired, and replaced with an external Flash management controller, possibly one of the low cost SSD controllers currently being tested. The camera will now be tied directly to the VX855's video capture port. The network interface will be upgraded to an 88W8686, which will halve its power dissipation and move it to an SDIO interface (further dropping the power consumption). The current goal is to locate it in a removable module, allowing its replacement for repair. It will remain powered while the laptop suspends, waking the laptop if a packet addressed to it arrives. It is likely that early production models will not directly support 802.11s (i.e. forwarding mesh packets while the interface is asleep), but we are working with Marvell on several different 802.11s solutions. Gen 1.5 will continue with the existing display, although OLPC is working with PixelQi to try to improve the brightness and efficiency of the screen. The DCON is retained (even though the VX855 includes much of its functionality) as it provides the low power interface and the timing controller functions for the existing display. Overall, the target is to match the Gen 1 XO-1 in power consumption while making aggressive suspend easier, and in price (while changing to components which are more likely to decrease in price). It is likely that both goals can be met. We also expect the Gen 1.5 machines to ship with an OLPC 8.2.x software release, modified to support Gen 1.5's new hardware but otherwise unchanged from the current production software release and compatible with our current software in the field. Gen 1.5 machines will be deployed in environments already populated by Gen 1 machines, so seamless software interoperability is an important goal. Early versions of the hardware (bare board) should be available for driver development at the end of May. A larger number of prototype laptops (several hundred) for software development and testing will become available around the end of August. The OLPC contributors program will be the preferred way of requesting a Gen 1.5 machine for testing your software for compatibility or development. We hope to use the contributors program to ensure Gen 1.5 support for the wide variety of
Re: XO Gen 1.5
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Bobby Powers bobbypow...@gmail.com wrote: the announcement said they were upping the RAM to 1GB DDR2. Exactly -- lots of questions. And between the added RAM, removing jffs2 (the external controller has something ftl-ish) and the streamlining of the storage access, I am excited. Now that I have just released experimental software that runs on the XO hardware I can say that my plan is to continue to develop and test it religiously on XO-1 first. It will be a hard discipline to stick to but we have to. As Bryan says, that's where the userbase we care about is. Trendy users may get the latest iphone but that's not our userbase. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
[forwarding to IAEP and sugar-devel] Awesome news, now we don't need to worry about performance any more :p Good luck with the remaining work, Tomeu On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 21:24, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote: OLPC is excited to announce that a refresh of the XO-1 laptop is in progress. In our continued effort to maintain a low price point, OLPC is refreshing the hardware to take advantage of the latest component technologies. This refresh (Gen 1.5) is separate from the Gen 2.0 project, and will continue using the same industrial design and batteries as Gen 1. The design goal is to provide an overall update of the system within the same ID and external appearance. In order to maximize compatibility with existing software, this refresh will continue with an x86 processor, using a chipset from VIA. The memory will be increased to 1 GB of DDR2 SDRAM, and the built-in storage will be 4 GB of NAND Flash with an option for 8 GB (installed at manufacture). The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. The enabling chipset is hot off the fab line, the VX855 [2]. This single chip provides the memory interface, a 3D graphics engine, an HD video decoder, USB, SDIO, and other system interface and management functions, in a low power and small footprint package. One change induced by the chipset change is a move from AC'97 to HD Audio. This brings higher sampling rates and allows an upgrade to a stereo external microphone (and DC sensor) input. The CaFE chip is being retired, and replaced with an external Flash management controller, possibly one of the low cost SSD controllers currently being tested. The camera will now be tied directly to the VX855's video capture port. The network interface will be upgraded to an 88W8686, which will halve its power dissipation and move it to an SDIO interface (further dropping the power consumption). The current goal is to locate it in a removable module, allowing its replacement for repair. It will remain powered while the laptop suspends, waking the laptop if a packet addressed to it arrives. It is likely that early production models will not directly support 802.11s (i.e. forwarding mesh packets while the interface is asleep), but we are working with Marvell on several different 802.11s solutions. Gen 1.5 will continue with the existing display, although OLPC is working with PixelQi to try to improve the brightness and efficiency of the screen. The DCON is retained (even though the VX855 includes much of its functionality) as it provides the low power interface and the timing controller functions for the existing display. Overall, the target is to match the Gen 1 XO-1 in power consumption while making aggressive suspend easier, and in price (while changing to components which are more likely to decrease in price). It is likely that both goals can be met. We also expect the Gen 1.5 machines to ship with an OLPC 8.2.x software release, modified to support Gen 1.5's new hardware but otherwise unchanged from the current production software release and compatible with our current software in the field. Gen 1.5 machines will be deployed in environments already populated by Gen 1 machines, so seamless software interoperability is an important goal. Early versions of the hardware (bare board) should be available for driver development at the end of May. A larger number of prototype laptops (several hundred) for software development and testing will become available around the end of August. The OLPC contributors program will be the preferred way of requesting a Gen 1.5 machine for testing your software for compatibility or development. We hope to use the contributors program to ensure Gen 1.5 support for the wide variety of application and OS solutions created for Gen 1.0. We're excited to be finally able to make this news public. While members of the technical team have been working on this for several months, it was not until last week that we could with any certainty say that we were going to refresh the hardware and what that refresh was likely to be. We're now committed to this project and look forward to working with you to make it happen. ---John, Ed, and the OLPC Tech team. [1] http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/c7-m_ulv/ [2] http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/v-series/vx855 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
On Fri, 2009-04-17 at 15:24 -0400, John Watlington wrote: The design goal is to provide an overall update of the system within the same ID and external appearance. In order to maximize compatibility with existing software, this refresh will continue with an x86 processor, using a chipset from VIA. The memory will be increased to 1 GB of DDR2 SDRAM, and the built-in storage will be 4 GB of NAND Flash with an option for 8 GB (installed at manufacture). The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. How much cheaper will the new system be? I was under the impression that the idea was to allow the XO price to drop with technology gains rather than spec increase. Of course I'm happy to accept spec increases if they come as a result of cost savings, but wasn't cost supposed to be the priority? Does this also mean that people who already own XOs will find that new software is going to require a computer more powerful than they currently have? I thought that that was something that was going to be specifically avoided. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO Gen 1.5
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Neil Graham l...@screamingduck.com wrote: On Fri, 2009-04-17 at 15:24 -0400, John Watlington wrote: The design goal is to provide an overall update of the system within the same ID and external appearance. In order to maximize compatibility with existing software, this refresh will continue with an x86 processor, using a chipset from VIA. The memory will be increased to 1 GB of DDR2 SDRAM, and the built-in storage will be 4 GB of NAND Flash with an option for 8 GB (installed at manufacture). The processor will be a VIA C7-M [1], with plans on using one whose clock ranges from 400 MHz (1.5 W) to 1GHz (5 W). The clock may be throttled back automatically if necessary to meet thermal constraints. How much cheaper will the new system be? I was under the impression that the idea was to allow the XO price to drop with technology gains rather than spec increase. Of course I'm happy to accept spec increases if they come as a result of cost savings, but wasn't cost supposed to be the priority? The announcement mentions that the initial price is targeted to remain roughly comparable, but that the newer components are likely to decrease in cost over time. As I understand it, several of the current components (the SDRAM in particular) are old enough that OLPC is the primary consumer. Single suppliers and low demand != reduced cost over time. Does this also mean that people who already own XOs will find that new software is going to require a computer more powerful than they currently have? I thought that that was something that was going to be specifically avoided. This is going to be a hard trap not to fall into, although several of the primary activities (Browse and Write) are based on desktop products that are not necessarily aimed at low-power or embedded systems, so I don't know if things will actually be any different. Bobby ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
