Re: [SailfishDevel] Announcing Mono for Sailfish
Very nice! :) 2014-08-21 23:13 GMT+02:00 Bob Summerwill b...@summerwill.net: See http://www.mobilelinuxnews.com/2014/08/introduction-mono-sailfish-os-jolla/ . I'm happy to announce that development on Mono for Sailfish is underway ( http://monoforsailfish.com).This is a continuation of MonoTizen ( http://monotizen.com), on which development has been suspended because the Tizen project is broken (see http://kitsilanosoftware.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/the-tizen-project-is-broken-we-will-be-spending-some-time-apart-3/ ). Dimitar Dobrev, the author of https://github.com/ddobrev/QtSharp has been upstreaming bug-fixes (and addressing newly discovered issues in) to http://github.com/mono/CppSharp.He'll be building the bindings, and will probably end up doing the Mono Runtime port as well, based on the fantastic job which Damien Diederen did for the Tizen Mono Runtime. Cheers, Bob Summerwill, Kitsilano Software http://twitter.com/bobsummerwill http://bobsummerwill.com | http://kitsilanosoftware.com | http://monoforsailfish.com -- b...@summerwill.net ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Announcing Mono for Sailfish
Hey, We discussed this on twitter already, but here we go in 140 characters as well ;-). Making it possible to create QML applications with Mono would be interesting on every platform, not merely Sailfish. Think Android, iOS, desktop. Xamarin costs nontrivial amount of money, so QML + Mono would be a free alternative to that (with somewhat limited capabilities of course)., Better path than QtSharp would be just creating a QML bridge to Mono, i.e. instantiate a QML runtime and make Mono talk with it. Example for this architecture is PyOtherside (http://thp.io/2011/pyotherside/) Sufficient api would be: - register Mono functions to be callable from QML javascript Analogue: http://pyotherside.readthedocs.org/en/latest/#call - receive signals (free form objects) from Mono side Analogue: http://pyotherside.readthedocs.org/en/latest/#received Another example (though a lot larger) is golang-qml binding: http://godoc.org/gopkg.in/qml.v1 Mechanically exposing large parts of Qt's C++ api (including QML engine) like sip, pyside et al are doing is probably going to yield lots of unuseful code, where developers only need 2% subset, but you will pay the price of the bloat and complexity anyway (troubles with PySide are a good example of this). Therefore I think QtSharp is suboptimal approach. Obviously I don't want to act as stop energy, but look before you leap so to say. On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Bob Summerwill b...@summerwill.net wrote: See http://www.mobilelinuxnews.com/2014/08/introduction-mono-sailfish-os-jolla/ . I'm happy to announce that development on Mono for Sailfish is underway ( http://monoforsailfish.com).This is a continuation of MonoTizen ( http://monotizen.com), on which development has been suspended because the Tizen project is broken (see http://kitsilanosoftware.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/the-tizen-project-is-broken-we-will-be-spending-some-time-apart-3/ ). Dimitar Dobrev, the author of https://github.com/ddobrev/QtSharp has been upstreaming bug-fixes (and addressing newly discovered issues in) to http://github.com/mono/CppSharp.He'll be building the bindings, and will probably end up doing the Mono Runtime port as well, based on the fantastic job which Damien Diederen did for the Tizen Mono Runtime. Cheers, Bob Summerwill, Kitsilano Software http://twitter.com/bobsummerwill http://bobsummerwill.com | http://kitsilanosoftware.com | http://monoforsailfish.com -- b...@summerwill.net ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Announcing Mono for Sailfish
Dnia 2014-08-22, pią o godzinie 12:12 +0300, Ville M. Vainio pisze: Better path than QtSharp would be just creating a QML bridge to Mono, i.e. instantiate a QML runtime and make Mono talk with it. This is how Go-QML [1] does it. You don't need the whole Qt wrapped, just the QML engine - the rest should be native app interfacing to QML in place of Qt/C++ app. [1] https://github.com/go-qml/qml -- smoku @ http://abadcafe.pl/ @ http://xiaoka.com/ ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Announcing Mono for Sailfish
+ Damien and Dimitar. Thanks for the links, info and suggestions! Yes, Sailfish is just one of N platforms where Qt/QML+Mono will be useful. The appeal of Sailfish for the initial development is that it lets us hit a mobile platform where Qt is the standard (and only?) UI technology. Qt for Tizen is great, but applications using Qt have been rejected from the Tizen Store. That will be moot if Tizen mobile devices never make it to market anyway, but will be problematic as-and-when the platform succeeds. You can still do Qt on Intel NUC and other non-Samsung-controlled Tizen devices, but it's still a problem. No such problem on Sailfish. I would love to bring Qt/QML+Mono to all platforms. Contributions, collaboration and assistance would be gratefully welcomed. Mono for Sailfish is not a commercial enterprise. It's a labor of love, because I want to use C# on these emerging mobile Linux platforms (including wearable and IoT).I don't believe that OSes or low-level technologies like programming languages should be proprietary. It just stifles innovation and is an unfair barrier to entry for programmers in the developing markets. It is just yet another moat for the status quo. I would love to see a teenager in a poor country getting his first computer (probably a smartphone) and being able to build and sell C# applications using just that device to see to rich Westerners. The next 2 billion smartphone customers? Boring. Think about the next million mobile DEVELOPERS, all incentivized and enabled to rip apart the complacent corporate status quo with disruptive and revolutionary applications.Bring it on.I think that's the most interesting opportunity for mobile Linux.That, and the possibility of crowd-funded indie mobile and wearable hardware. Cheers, Bob On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 2:31 AM, Tomasz Sterna to...@xiaoka.com wrote: Dnia 2014-08-22, pią o godzinie 12:12 +0300, Ville M. Vainio pisze: Better path than QtSharp would be just creating a QML bridge to Mono, i.e. instantiate a QML runtime and make Mono talk with it. This is how Go-QML [1] does it. You don't need the whole Qt wrapped, just the QML engine - the rest should be native app interfacing to QML in place of Qt/C++ app. [1] https://github.com/go-qml/qml -- smoku @ http://abadcafe.pl/ @ http://xiaoka.com/ ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org -- b...@summerwill.net ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Announcing Mono for Sailfish
Correction .. I would love to see a teenager in a poor country getting his first computer (probably a smartphone) and being able to build and sell C# applications using just that device to SELL to rich Westerners. On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 2:48 AM, Bob Summerwill b...@summerwill.net wrote: + Damien and Dimitar. Thanks for the links, info and suggestions! Yes, Sailfish is just one of N platforms where Qt/QML+Mono will be useful. The appeal of Sailfish for the initial development is that it lets us hit a mobile platform where Qt is the standard (and only?) UI technology. Qt for Tizen is great, but applications using Qt have been rejected from the Tizen Store. That will be moot if Tizen mobile devices never make it to market anyway, but will be problematic as-and-when the platform succeeds. You can still do Qt on Intel NUC and other non-Samsung-controlled Tizen devices, but it's still a problem. No such problem on Sailfish. I would love to bring Qt/QML+Mono to all platforms. Contributions, collaboration and assistance would be gratefully welcomed. Mono for Sailfish is not a commercial enterprise. It's a labor of love, because I want to use C# on these emerging mobile Linux platforms (including wearable and IoT).I don't believe that OSes or low-level technologies like programming languages should be proprietary. It just stifles innovation and is an unfair barrier to entry for programmers in the developing markets. It is just yet another moat for the status quo. I would love to see a teenager in a poor country getting his first computer (probably a smartphone) and being able to build and sell C# applications using just that device to see to rich Westerners. The next 2 billion smartphone customers? Boring. Think about the next million mobile DEVELOPERS, all incentivized and enabled to rip apart the complacent corporate status quo with disruptive and revolutionary applications.Bring it on.I think that's the most interesting opportunity for mobile Linux.That, and the possibility of crowd-funded indie mobile and wearable hardware. Cheers, Bob On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 2:31 AM, Tomasz Sterna to...@xiaoka.com wrote: Dnia 2014-08-22, pią o godzinie 12:12 +0300, Ville M. Vainio pisze: Better path than QtSharp would be just creating a QML bridge to Mono, i.e. instantiate a QML runtime and make Mono talk with it. This is how Go-QML [1] does it. You don't need the whole Qt wrapped, just the QML engine - the rest should be native app interfacing to QML in place of Qt/C++ app. [1] https://github.com/go-qml/qml -- smoku @ http://abadcafe.pl/ @ http://xiaoka.com/ ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org -- b...@summerwill.net -- b...@summerwill.net ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Announcing Mono for Sailfish
Hey2, I've been playing with this myself a bit, but have not gotten too far, summer weather, travels and all. What Ville is suggesting is exactly what I'm after - not a full binding set, but just a UI bridge. In API rich environments like python/.net/etc the application framework API parts of Qt don't mean much (and their existence/quality varies depending on platform anyway). Mono (and even Xamarin) falls a bit short on the UI side, and a good QML/QtQuick bridge would help a whole lot. And before someone gets the wrong idea - this is still not about having a single QML codebase, but rather having a common language for UIs powered by whatever is the best tech choice on the given platform (QtQuick, Silica, QML components wrapping native APIs, you name it). Best regards Attila Csipa On 8/22/2014 11:12 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote: Hey, We discussed this on twitter already, but here we go in 140 characters as well ;-). Making it possible to create QML applications with Mono would be interesting on every platform, not merely Sailfish. Think Android, iOS, desktop. Xamarin costs nontrivial amount of money, so QML + Mono would be a free alternative to that (with somewhat limited capabilities of course)., Better path than QtSharp would be just creating a QML bridge to Mono, i.e. instantiate a QML runtime and make Mono talk with it. Example for this architecture is PyOtherside (http://thp.io/2011/pyotherside/) Sufficient api would be: - register Mono functions to be callable from QML javascript Analogue: http://pyotherside.readthedocs.org/en/latest/#call - receive signals (free form objects) from Mono side Analogue: http://pyotherside.readthedocs.org/en/latest/#received Another example (though a lot larger) is golang-qml binding: http://godoc.org/gopkg.in/qml.v1 Mechanically exposing large parts of Qt's C++ api (including QML engine) like sip, pyside et al are doing is probably going to yield lots of unuseful code, where developers only need 2% subset, but you will pay the price of the bloat and complexity anyway (troubles with PySide are a good example of this). Therefore I think QtSharp is suboptimal approach. Obviously I don't want to act as stop energy, but look before you leap so to say. On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Bob Summerwill b...@summerwill.net mailto:b...@summerwill.net wrote: See http://www.mobilelinuxnews.com/2014/08/introduction-mono-sailfish-os-jolla/. I'm happy to announce that development on Mono for Sailfish is underway (http://monoforsailfish.com).This is a continuation of MonoTizen (http://monotizen.com), on which development has been suspended because the Tizen project is broken (see http://kitsilanosoftware.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/the-tizen-project-is-broken-we-will-be-spending-some-time-apart-3/). Dimitar Dobrev, the author of https://github.com/ddobrev/QtSharp has been upstreaming bug-fixes (and addressing newly discovered issues in) to http://github.com/mono/CppSharp.He'll be building the bindings, and will probably end up doing the Mono Runtime port as well, based on the fantastic job which Damien Diederen did for the Tizen Mono Runtime. Cheers, Bob Summerwill, Kitsilano Software http://twitter.com/bobsummerwill http://bobsummerwill.com | http://kitsilanosoftware.com | http://monoforsailfish.com -- b...@summerwill.net mailto:b...@summerwill.net ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org mailto:devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Announcing Mono for Sailfish
CC Damien and Dimitar. Right - thanks for the context. Best wishes! Cheers, Bob On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:05 AM, Attila Csipa q...@csipa.in.rs wrote: Hey2, I've been playing with this myself a bit, but have not gotten too far, summer weather, travels and all. What Ville is suggesting is exactly what I'm after - not a full binding set, but just a UI bridge. In API rich environments like python/.net/etc the application framework API parts of Qt don't mean much (and their existence/quality varies depending on platform anyway). Mono (and even Xamarin) falls a bit short on the UI side, and a good QML/QtQuick bridge would help a whole lot. And before someone gets the wrong idea - this is still not about having a single QML codebase, but rather having a common language for UIs powered by whatever is the best tech choice on the given platform (QtQuick, Silica, QML components wrapping native APIs, you name it). Best regards Attila Csipa On 8/22/2014 11:12 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote: Hey, We discussed this on twitter already, but here we go in 140 characters as well ;-). Making it possible to create QML applications with Mono would be interesting on every platform, not merely Sailfish. Think Android, iOS, desktop. Xamarin costs nontrivial amount of money, so QML + Mono would be a free alternative to that (with somewhat limited capabilities of course)., Better path than QtSharp would be just creating a QML bridge to Mono, i.e. instantiate a QML runtime and make Mono talk with it. Example for this architecture is PyOtherside (http://thp.io/2011/pyotherside/) Sufficient api would be: - register Mono functions to be callable from QML javascript Analogue: http://pyotherside.readthedocs.org/en/latest/#call - receive signals (free form objects) from Mono side Analogue: http://pyotherside.readthedocs.org/en/latest/#received Another example (though a lot larger) is golang-qml binding: http://godoc.org/gopkg.in/qml.v1 Mechanically exposing large parts of Qt's C++ api (including QML engine) like sip, pyside et al are doing is probably going to yield lots of unuseful code, where developers only need 2% subset, but you will pay the price of the bloat and complexity anyway (troubles with PySide are a good example of this). Therefore I think QtSharp is suboptimal approach. Obviously I don't want to act as stop energy, but look before you leap so to say. On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Bob Summerwill b...@summerwill.net wrote: See http://www.mobilelinuxnews.com/2014/08/introduction-mono-sailfish-os-jolla/ . I'm happy to announce that development on Mono for Sailfish is underway (http://monoforsailfish.com).This is a continuation of MonoTizen ( http://monotizen.com), on which development has been suspended because the Tizen project is broken (see http://kitsilanosoftware.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/the-tizen-project-is-broken-we-will-be-spending-some-time-apart-3/ ). Dimitar Dobrev, the author of https://github.com/ddobrev/QtSharp has been upstreaming bug-fixes (and addressing newly discovered issues in) to http://github.com/mono/CppSharp.He'll be building the bindings, and will probably end up doing the Mono Runtime port as well, based on the fantastic job which Damien Diederen did for the Tizen Mono Runtime. Cheers, Bob Summerwill, Kitsilano Software http://twitter.com/bobsummerwill http://bobsummerwill.com | http://kitsilanosoftware.com | http://monoforsailfish.com -- b...@summerwill.net ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org -- b...@summerwill.net ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
[SailfishDevel] Announcing Mono for Sailfish
See http://www.mobilelinuxnews.com/2014/08/introduction-mono-sailfish-os-jolla/. I'm happy to announce that development on Mono for Sailfish is underway ( http://monoforsailfish.com).This is a continuation of MonoTizen ( http://monotizen.com), on which development has been suspended because the Tizen project is broken (see http://kitsilanosoftware.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/the-tizen-project-is-broken-we-will-be-spending-some-time-apart-3/ ). Dimitar Dobrev, the author of https://github.com/ddobrev/QtSharp has been upstreaming bug-fixes (and addressing newly discovered issues in) to http://github.com/mono/CppSharp.He'll be building the bindings, and will probably end up doing the Mono Runtime port as well, based on the fantastic job which Damien Diederen did for the Tizen Mono Runtime. Cheers, Bob Summerwill, Kitsilano Software http://twitter.com/bobsummerwill http://bobsummerwill.com | http://kitsilanosoftware.com | http://monoforsailfish.com -- b...@summerwill.net ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
