Re: [ovirt-devel] DRBD Integration with oVirt

[Federico Simoncelli]

Hi Hayley.

In the past I developed a POC for DRBD in oVirt.

  https://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/13585/

It's quite old and things have changed so for sure it's not up to
date. It also took some assumptions that may different from what you
want to achieve.

In fact it assumed to be hyper-converged which, at that time, it meant
that only data-centers of two nodes were supported (maybe DRBD changed
in this respect now, I remember there were some plans around this
circa 2014).
The idea was to achieve HA in small deployment of few VMs (e.g. ROBO).

On the other hand in case you want to separate compute and storage
then you could deploy DRBD on two hosts (outside of the oVirt
clusters) and expose the block device using iscsi (active/passive or
active/active with multipath).
I haven't checked what Cinder does, maybe it's something similar to
what I described here above.

Anyway that would work today out-of-the-box with no modifications to
oVirt, but of course has some complexities in deployment, testing and
maintenance (and hopefully a negligible performance penalty).

I don't know what are the general directions nowadays but in the past
(regardless of the architecture) I would have suggested to use VDSM as
agent to setup the DRBD storage.
(Anyway provisioning would come after you picked the architecture).

Thanks,

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 8:13 PM, Hayley Swimelar  wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> A DRBD integration into oVirt is currently being planned.
>
> DRBD provides replicated, highly available block storage. For those
> unfamiliar with DRBD more information can be found here:
> https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbd-linux-driver
>
> DRBD 9 is the latest version of DRBD and interacts with DRBD Manage which is
> a daemon exposed via a D-Bus api. More information can be found here:
> https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbdmanage
>
> DRBD Manage handles the creation, assignment, etc. of DRBD volumes and is
> the interface through which Cinder manages DRBD.
>
> We are looking for advice on how best to have oVirt communicate with DRBD
> Manage and we have come to two options:
>
> 1) Use Cinder. Although we are integrated into Cinder, there are concerns
> about the need to set up a complete Cinder instance to provide access to
> DRBD.
>
> 2) The alternative to Cinder would be to have the oVirt Engine communicate
> directly to DRBD Manage via D-Bus.
>
> Any advice on the best way to achieve this would be much appreciated.
>
> --
> Hayley Swimelar
> LINBIT | Keeping the Digital World Running
> DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
> +1-503-573-1262 x212
> ___
> Devel mailing list
> Devel@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

-- 
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Re: [ovirt-devel] DRBD Integration with oVirt

[Allon Mureinik]

Then definitely don't go the Cinder route. We make WAY too many
Ceph-centric assumptions there.

I wonder how much effort it would be to implement a DRBD domain in a
similar fashion to the existing block domains.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:54 PM, Hayley Swimelar  wrote:

>
>
> On 06/13/2016 09:51 AM, Allon Mureinik wrote:
>
>> Maybe I'm being daft, but I'm missing something basic here.
>> What's the end goal? A DRBD Storage Domain in oVirt?
>>
>>
> Hi Allon,
>
> A DRBD Storage Domain in oVirt is the goal, yes.
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Hayley Swimelar  wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> A DRBD integration into oVirt is currently being planned.
>>>
>>> DRBD provides replicated, highly available block storage. For those
>>> unfamiliar with DRBD more information can be found here:
>>> https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbd-linux-driver
>>>
>>> DRBD 9 is the latest version of DRBD and interacts with DRBD Manage which
>>> is a daemon exposed via a D-Bus api. More information can be found here:
>>> https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbdmanage
>>>
>>> DRBD Manage handles the creation, assignment, etc. of DRBD volumes and is
>>> the interface through which Cinder manages DRBD.
>>>
>>> We are looking for advice on how best to have oVirt communicate with DRBD
>>> Manage and we have come to two options:
>>>
>>> 1) Use Cinder. Although we are integrated into Cinder, there are concerns
>>> about the need to set up a complete Cinder instance to provide access to
>>> DRBD.
>>>
>>> 2) The alternative to Cinder would be to have the oVirt Engine
>>> communicate
>>> directly to DRBD Manage via D-Bus.
>>>
>>> Any advice on the best way to achieve this would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hayley Swimelar
>>> LINBIT | Keeping the Digital World Running
>>> DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
>>> +1-503-573-1262 x212
>>> ___
>>> Devel mailing list
>>> Devel@ovirt.org
>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Hayley Swimelar
> LINBIT | Keeping the Digital World Running
> DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
> +1-503-573-1262 x212
>
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Re: [ovirt-devel] DRBD Integration with oVirt

[Hayley Swimelar]

On 06/13/2016 09:51 AM, Allon Mureinik wrote:

Maybe I'm being daft, but I'm missing something basic here.
What's the end goal? A DRBD Storage Domain in oVirt?



Hi Allon,

A DRBD Storage Domain in oVirt is the goal, yes.


On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Hayley Swimelar  wrote:


Hello all,

A DRBD integration into oVirt is currently being planned.

DRBD provides replicated, highly available block storage. For those
unfamiliar with DRBD more information can be found here:
https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbd-linux-driver

DRBD 9 is the latest version of DRBD and interacts with DRBD Manage which
is a daemon exposed via a D-Bus api. More information can be found here:
https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbdmanage

DRBD Manage handles the creation, assignment, etc. of DRBD volumes and is
the interface through which Cinder manages DRBD.

We are looking for advice on how best to have oVirt communicate with DRBD
Manage and we have come to two options:

1) Use Cinder. Although we are integrated into Cinder, there are concerns
about the need to set up a complete Cinder instance to provide access to
DRBD.

2) The alternative to Cinder would be to have the oVirt Engine communicate
directly to DRBD Manage via D-Bus.

Any advice on the best way to achieve this would be much appreciated.

--
Hayley Swimelar
LINBIT | Keeping the Digital World Running
DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
+1-503-573-1262 x212
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DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
+1-503-573-1262 x212
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Re: [ovirt-devel] DRBD Integration with oVirt

[Allon Mureinik]

Maybe I'm being daft, but I'm missing something basic here.
What's the end goal? A DRBD Storage Domain in oVirt?

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Hayley Swimelar  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> A DRBD integration into oVirt is currently being planned.
>
> DRBD provides replicated, highly available block storage. For those
> unfamiliar with DRBD more information can be found here:
> https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbd-linux-driver
>
> DRBD 9 is the latest version of DRBD and interacts with DRBD Manage which
> is a daemon exposed via a D-Bus api. More information can be found here:
> https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbdmanage
>
> DRBD Manage handles the creation, assignment, etc. of DRBD volumes and is
> the interface through which Cinder manages DRBD.
>
> We are looking for advice on how best to have oVirt communicate with DRBD
> Manage and we have come to two options:
>
> 1) Use Cinder. Although we are integrated into Cinder, there are concerns
> about the need to set up a complete Cinder instance to provide access to
> DRBD.
>
> 2) The alternative to Cinder would be to have the oVirt Engine communicate
> directly to DRBD Manage via D-Bus.
>
> Any advice on the best way to achieve this would be much appreciated.
>
> --
> Hayley Swimelar
> LINBIT | Keeping the Digital World Running
> DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
> +1-503-573-1262 x212
> ___
> Devel mailing list
> Devel@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
>
>
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Re: [ovirt-devel] DRBD Integration with oVirt

[Barak Korren]

>> But what sort of user experience and system architecture is intended?
>> Is configuration of volumes planned to be done directly from the oVirt
>> UI?
>
> Once a DRBD Manage storage cluster is set up, oVirt would handle the
> management of DRBD volumes.

So does this mean there would be some kind of a "DRBD" cluster, like
the "Gluseter cluster" oVirt has right now?

>> As far as using DRBD for backing oVirt VMs, this seems to already be
>> working. The oVirt CI system (which runs on top of oVirt) had been
>> using a DRBD-backed NFS storage for years...
>>
>
> The most recent release of DRBD contains new features that allow it to
> integrate more directly with virtualization/cloud platforms. So VMs could
> have DRBD-backed storage without additional overhead from NFS.

Could you elaborate a little on how this works? Would this means the
block devices would be configured on the hypervisors themselves? Is
this intended to be some kind of a hyper-converged architecture?


-- 
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bkor...@redhat.com
RHEV-CI Team
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Re: [ovirt-devel] DRBD Integration with oVirt

[Hayley Swimelar]

On 06/06/2016 11:02 AM, Yaniv Kaul wrote:

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Hayley Swimelar  wrote:




On 06/04/2016 10:40 PM, Barak Korren wrote:




We are looking for advice on how best to have oVirt communicate with DRBD
Manage and we have come to two options:



My vote would be for native support rather then a Cinder based one. I
don't have any hard numbers, but it seems to me the adoption of
OpenStack technologies for use with oVirt is not as widespread as one
may hope.

But what sort of user experience and system architecture is intended?
Is configuration of volumes planned to be done directly from the oVirt
UI?



Once a DRBD Manage storage cluster is set up, oVirt would handle the
management of DRBD volumes.

While oVirt can do a little Gluster volume management for now, it

seems it was done because it some point it was thought that oVirt
would be the primary management UI for Gluster. AFAIK Gluster is now
getting its own UI.



The DRBD Manage daemon ships with a command line utility which is the UI
for interacting with DRBD 9. I do not believe that there is a stand alone
DRBD GUI planned at this time.



Is using the CLI considered a 'stable API' ? (or perhaps it can output a
JSON or something that can be considered as such)?



oVirt wouldn't use the CLI, it would talk directly to the underlying 
DRBD Manage process (drbdmanaged) via D-Bus.


As far as setting up the cluster initially, the DRBD Manage client (CLI) 
is designed to be used by the end user, so it's pretty user-friendly.





At least for now, the user most likely will prepare a DRBD Manage cluster
up to the point where it's ready to start creating/assigning volumes and
then oVirt will take over from there.

As far as using DRBD for backing oVirt VMs, this seems to already be

working. The oVirt CI system (which runs on top of oVirt) had been
using a DRBD-backed NFS storage for years...



The most recent release of DRBD contains new features that allow it to
integrate more directly with virtualization/cloud platforms. So VMs could
have DRBD-backed storage without additional overhead from NFS.



Via RADOS pools?


The DRBD devices would be attached over the network, similar to the way 
they are in Cinder: 
https://www.drbd.org/en/doc/users-guide-90/s-openstack-transport-protocol








--
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LINBIT | Keeping the Digital World Running
DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
+1-503-573-1262 x212
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DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
+1-503-573-1262 x212
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Re: [ovirt-devel] DRBD Integration with oVirt

[Hayley Swimelar]

On 06/04/2016 10:40 PM, Barak Korren wrote:


We are looking for advice on how best to have oVirt communicate with DRBD
Manage and we have come to two options:



My vote would be for native support rather then a Cinder based one. I
don't have any hard numbers, but it seems to me the adoption of
OpenStack technologies for use with oVirt is not as widespread as one
may hope.

But what sort of user experience and system architecture is intended?
Is configuration of volumes planned to be done directly from the oVirt
UI?


Once a DRBD Manage storage cluster is set up, oVirt would handle the 
management of DRBD volumes.



While oVirt can do a little Gluster volume management for now, it
seems it was done because it some point it was thought that oVirt
would be the primary management UI for Gluster. AFAIK Gluster is now
getting its own UI.


The DRBD Manage daemon ships with a command line utility which is the UI 
for interacting with DRBD 9. I do not believe that there is a stand 
alone DRBD GUI planned at this time.


At least for now, the user most likely will prepare a DRBD Manage 
cluster up to the point where it's ready to start creating/assigning 
volumes and then oVirt will take over from there.



As far as using DRBD for backing oVirt VMs, this seems to already be
working. The oVirt CI system (which runs on top of oVirt) had been
using a DRBD-backed NFS storage for years...



The most recent release of DRBD contains new features that allow it to 
integrate more directly with virtualization/cloud platforms. So VMs 
could have DRBD-backed storage without additional overhead from NFS.


--
Hayley Swimelar
LINBIT | Keeping the Digital World Running
DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
+1-503-573-1262 x212
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Re: [ovirt-devel] DRBD Integration with oVirt

[Barak Korren]

>
> We are looking for advice on how best to have oVirt communicate with DRBD
> Manage and we have come to two options:
>

My vote would be for native support rather then a Cinder based one. I
don't have any hard numbers, but it seems to me the adoption of
OpenStack technologies for use with oVirt is not as widespread as one
may hope.

But what sort of user experience and system architecture is intended?
Is configuration of volumes planned to be done directly from the oVirt
UI?
While oVirt can do a little Gluster volume management for now, it
seems it was done because it some point it was thought that oVirt
would be the primary management UI for Gluster. AFAIK Gluster is now
getting its own UI.
As far as using DRBD for backing oVirt VMs, this seems to already be
working. The oVirt CI system (which runs on top of oVirt) had been
using a DRBD-backed NFS storage for years...

-- 
Barak Korren
bkor...@redhat.com
RHEV-CI Team
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[ovirt-devel] DRBD Integration with oVirt

[Hayley Swimelar]

Hello all,

A DRBD integration into oVirt is currently being planned.

DRBD provides replicated, highly available block storage. For those 
unfamiliar with DRBD more information can be found here: 
https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbd-linux-driver


DRBD 9 is the latest version of DRBD and interacts with DRBD Manage 
which is a daemon exposed via a D-Bus api. More information can be found 
here: https://www.drbd.org/en/comp/drbdmanage


DRBD Manage handles the creation, assignment, etc. of DRBD volumes and 
is the interface through which Cinder manages DRBD.


We are looking for advice on how best to have oVirt communicate with 
DRBD Manage and we have come to two options:


1) Use Cinder. Although we are integrated into Cinder, there are 
concerns about the need to set up a complete Cinder instance to provide 
access to DRBD.


2) The alternative to Cinder would be to have the oVirt Engine 
communicate directly to DRBD Manage via D-Bus.


Any advice on the best way to achieve this would be much appreciated.

--
Hayley Swimelar
LINBIT | Keeping the Digital World Running
DRBD — Corosync — Pacemaker
+1-503-573-1262 x212
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