Re: Added Pseudocolor Visuals for XFree86?

2004-11-02 Thread Andrew C Aitchison
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Bussoletti, John E wrote:

> Examination of the output of xdpyinfo in the SGI machines shows that the
> SGI X drivers support Pseudocolor visuals at both 8 bit planes and 12
> bit planes.  Similar output under Linux shows support for Pseudocolor
> Visuals at only 8 bit planes.  These applications were built to take
> advantage of the 12 bit plane Pseudocolor Visual under the SGI X
> drivers.

> Is there any support for 12 bit plane Pseudocolor Visuals within at
> least one video card and the XFree86 drivers?  Will there be support for
> such features in the future? If so, is there an anticipated release
> date?

What features of Pseudocolor are you using ?
Are you using plane masks or dynamic color changes ?

12bit PseudoColor naturally fits onto 36bit DirectColor visuals,
something that PC graphics hardware doesn't have.
Exceed will either give you StaticColor, or have a slow down
whenever you switch colormaps. With backing store (something XFree86 
doesn't do well at the moment) this wont be a big hit on a current machine 
but it does require a cludge, which upsets the sensibilities of some of 
our developers.

If you actually need PseudoColor (not just StaticColor)
I think you would be better rewriting the app to take account 
of the feature-set of the available hardware,
than to get the X server to emulate the features you are using 
in software, which is what Exceed will be doing.

(The absence of PseudoColor on DirectColor is partly that
the RandR (Rotate and Resize) extension was going to allow all visual 
combinations on screen at once, emulating some in software and even
switching hardware mode on the fly when a different visual became 
dominant. The departure of Keith Packard stopped that, so you might
be better looking at Xorg/OpenDesktop.org.)

I don't think anyone has asked for 12bit before.
We do have 10bit support in the glint driver, but that is
the width of the DAC, not the length of the palette.
The Matrox Parhelia also has 10bit dacs; I don't know whether
they have a closed driver that does what you need.

-- 
Andrew C. Aitchison Cambridge, UK
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Added Pseudocolor Visuals for XFree86?

2004-11-02 Thread Mark Vojkovich
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Bussoletti, John E wrote:

>
> At Boeing we have a number of graphics applications that have been
> developed in-house, originally for various SGI platforms.  These
> applications are used for engineering visualization  They work well on
> the native hardware and even display well across the network using third
> party applications under Windows like Hummingbird's ExCeed 3D.  However,
> under Linux, the fail to work properly, either natively or via remote
> display with the original SGI hardware acting as server, due to
> omissions in the available Pseudocolor Visuals.

   Most PC graphics hardware does not support overlays and therefore
doesn't really support simultaneous PseudoColor and TrueColor visuals.
Some PC hardware can, for instance, some Matrox cards and some NVIDIA
Quadro cards and some others.  You'll need to research that pretty
carefully because while some hardware may support it, the drivers
may not.  Hummingbird does PseudoColor emulation in software, probably
by rendering PseudoColor windows offscreen and then translating
into TrueColor windows during PseudoColor window updates and palette
changes.  XFree86 doesn't support this because nobody has cared enough
about it to write support for it.  I don't expect that to change.


>
> Examination of the output of xdpyinfo in the SGI machines shows that the
> SGI X drivers support Pseudocolor visuals at both 8 bit planes and 12
> bit planes.  Similar output under Linux shows support for Pseudocolor
> Visuals at only 8 bit planes.  These applications were built to take
> advantage of the 12 bit plane Pseudocolor Visual under the SGI X
> drivers.

No PC hardware supports palettes with more than 2^8 entries.
A 2^12 entry palette could be implemented only by emultation (rendering
offscreen and then translating to TrueColor windows).

>
> To allow use of these graphics applications within a Linux environment,
> we're contemplating a port of the applications to Directcolor Visuals.
> But prior to initiating such an activity, I've been asked to ask whether
> new developments or releases of the XFree86 X drivers might be in the
> pipeline for future release that might offer a wider variety of
> Pseudocolor Visuals.  Hence this note.

   Porting to depth 24 DirectColor will increase the number of
cards that your application will run on.  Most XFree86 drivers
support simultaneous depth 24 DirectColor and TrueColor visuals,
although there will be color flashing when changing window focus
because PC hardware only supports a single hardware palette.

But if your application requires 12 bit plane palettes, I don't
see how depth 24 (8 plane palettes) will help your situation.

>
> Is there any support for 12 bit plane Pseudocolor Visuals within at
> least one video card and the XFree86 drivers?  Will there be support for
> such features in the future? If so, is there an anticipated release
> date?

   No PC hardware supports 12 bit plane PseudoColor.  No drivers
emulate this in software.  I know of no plans to implement this
and expect adding such a feature to be unlikely.

  My recommendation is that you get away from PseudoColor entirely.
Most people stuck in your position have legacy apps for which they
do not have source code and have no choice.  I recommend doing everything
in TrueColor, and depending on the application, you might want to
consider using OpenGL.   This problem will likely get worse for you
in the future.  Some hardware support 8 bit PseudoColor overlays now
but I expect this to go the way of the dodo.  My impression is that
a future Microsoft operating system will not support 8 bit PseudoColor
modes nor will it support overlays so eventually these will disappear
from the hardware, leaving emulation as the only solution.


Mark
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Re: Added Pseudocolor Visuals for XFree86?

2004-11-02 Thread Tim Roberts
Mark Vojkovich wrote:
...Some hardware support 8 bit PseudoColor overlays now
but I expect this to go the way of the dodo.  My impression is that
a future Microsoft operating system will not support 8 bit PseudoColor
modes nor will it support overlays so eventually these will disappear
from the hardware, leaving emulation as the only solution.
 

Exactly correct.  Windows XP still includes support for 8-bit 
pseudo-color, if you know how to hack the registry, but it is not 
exposed in the UI, and their documentation implies that it is not supported.

--
- Tim Roberts, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
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