Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 02:12:26AM -0800, Andrew P. Lentvorski, Jr. wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Andrew C Aitchison wrote: We have lost developers who might have been valuable to us by not giving them CVS access. I'm afraid to say that from the outside it appears that if David had been able to swallow his pride a little more, things might have turned out a little different. Actually, this points to a more structural failure in the tools. People seem to be afraid to bestow CVS access due to it being so all or nothing. It's really not, you know. Aside from the fact you can do permissions, there's also the KDE module, with a flexible checkin script to allow/deny/whatever commits, based on an arbitrary ruleset. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.freedesktop.org What's next? People turning up on my doorstep, observing that the lack of doorbell is likely to confuse people and hence removing my front door? -- David Woodhouse on usability efforts, Advogato pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Monday 27 October 2003 03:43 am, Andrew C Aitchison wrote: The fact remains that there are developers out there who without CVS access, who those who don't know the facts think could be making an even bigger contribution if they did have access. Nice post, but I couldn't parse the last sentence -- can you clarify? Are you saying that there are some not readily apparent facts (obligations, whatever) that make CVS access a mixed blessing. I didn't phrase that quite the way I wanted to -- I know it's a mixed blessing because of the typical obligations like not breaking the tree, and in the case of a cross-platform project like X, not breaking it for any platform, but are there some less obvious obligations that made you decide that you really didn't want CVS access? Can you share those with us? Randy Kramer ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote: When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. Err... No. He was quite reasonable, in my opinion. -Peter ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter Firefly Lund wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote: When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. Err... No. He was quite reasonable, in my opinion. He thought he was, but when I get email from people phrased that way, I don't appreciate it. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter Firefly Lund wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote: When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. Err... No. He was quite reasonable, in my opinion. On the contrary. Implying that XFree86 owes him anything, be it a personal/family life or the right to commit, is not reasonable at all. Saying give me what I want to be a volunteer! simply doesn't cut it. Marc. +--+---+ | Marc Aurele La France | work: 1-780-492-9310 | | Computing and Network Services | fax:1-780-492-1729 | | 352 General Services Building | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | University of Alberta +---+ | Edmonton, Alberta | | | T6G 2H1 | Standard disclaimers apply| | CANADA | | +--+---+ XFree86 Core Team member. ATI driver and X server internals. ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 03:51:05PM -0700, Marc Aurele La France wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter Firefly Lund wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote: When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. Err... No. He was quite reasonable, in my opinion. On the contrary. Implying that XFree86 owes him anything, be it a personal/family life or the right to commit, is not reasonable at all. Saying give me what I want to be a volunteer! simply doesn't cut it. I've tried to stay out of this ... From my (impartial; I'm not taking sides) reading, he was saying, if you want me here, it's on my terms, which includes CVS. No CVS, no me. He was (AFAICT) placing conditions on his continued participation in a volunteer activity, not making demands of other volunteers. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.freedesktop.org What's next? People turning up on my doorstep, observing that the lack of doorbell is likely to confuse people and hence removing my front door? -- David Woodhouse on usability efforts, Advogato pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 12:37:29PM -0500, Harold L Hunt II wrote: Michel Dänzer wrote: Well, you know, XFree86's disregard for offers to help made by developers that have been with the project for over two years are certainly part of the problem. Err, this is about bug triage, which you can do just as well as everybody else. No, this is about my submitting Cygwin-specific bugs that can't actually be assigned to me for committing them, even though I am the expert on Cygwin/XFree86. This thread started to point out the hypocrisy of the situation and to see what the official response to this was. When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. As a volunteer myself, I don't have to take this type of attitude from you or from anyone else. And I won't. David -- David Dawes Founder/committer/developer The XFree86 Project www.XFree86.org/~dawes ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
David Dawes wrote: On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 12:37:29PM -0500, Harold L Hunt II wrote: Michel Dänzer wrote: Well, you know, XFree86's disregard for offers to help made by developers that have been with the project for over two years are certainly part of the problem. Err, this is about bug triage, which you can do just as well as everybody else. No, this is about my submitting Cygwin-specific bugs that can't actually be assigned to me for committing them, even though I am the expert on Cygwin/XFree86. This thread started to point out the hypocrisy of the situation and to see what the official response to this was. When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. As a volunteer myself, I don't have to take this type of attitude from you or from anyone else. And I won't. David, I mentioned that failure to commit my patches in a timely manner causes me to have a hard time figuring out which have been committed and which haven't (this was when I was sending patches to [EMAIL PROTECTED]). You probably never saw this system from the standpoint of a non-commit developer. The problem here is that you send a patch to the list, it randomly gets committed by someone (you don't know who in advance, so you have to track everyone's committs), then you have to figure out who committed it (if anyone) and if it was done correctly. The system was a mess and did not aid non-commit developers in tracking their patches. Your response to this comment was that I was unorganized and that it cause by my lack of attention to detail. Was that a respectful and non-insulting response to my message? Is this my formal message to piss off? Harold ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
Thomas Dickey wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter Firefly Lund wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote: When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. Err... No. He was quite reasonable, in my opinion. He thought he was, but when I get email from people phrased that way, I don't appreciate it. Thomas Dickey, You sent me the biggest insult I have ever received in my life. How can you not realize that? How can you do anything except apologize for your extremely rude message? Please, never, ever, respond to another word that I write until you correct yourself. Harold ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Thomas Dickey wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter Firefly Lund wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote: When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. Err... No. He was quite reasonable, in my opinion. He thought he was, but when I get email from people phrased that way, I don't appreciate it. He really was. You weren't. His reply perhaps wasn't, either, but at least there was a reason for that which was discernible to dispassionate bystanders. -Peter ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
Marc Aurele La France wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter Firefly Lund wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote: When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. Err... No. He was quite reasonable, in my opinion. On the contrary. Implying that XFree86 owes him anything, be it a personal/family life or the right to commit, is not reasonable at all. Saying give me what I want to be a volunteer! simply doesn't cut it. Marc, I am not implying that anyone owes me anything. XFree86 owes me nothing. I am asking to do *more* not *less* for the XFree86 project. Committing my own Cygwin-specific patches not only saves me time, but it saves all other XFree86 committers time as well. How is that implying that XFree86 owes me something? Harold ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
Daniel Stone wrote: On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 03:51:05PM -0700, Marc Aurele La France wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter Firefly Lund wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote: When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. Err... No. He was quite reasonable, in my opinion. On the contrary. Implying that XFree86 owes him anything, be it a personal/family life or the right to commit, is not reasonable at all. Saying give me what I want to be a volunteer! simply doesn't cut it. I've tried to stay out of this ... From my (impartial; I'm not taking sides) reading, he was saying, if you want me here, it's on my terms, which includes CVS. No CVS, no me. He was (AFAICT) placing conditions on his continued participation in a volunteer activity, not making demands of other volunteers. Daniel, Thank you. It is nice to know that what I am writing can be read as I have intended it to be read. Harold ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
