Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
> -Original Message- > From: Ville Voutilainen [mailto:ville.voutilai...@gmail.com] > Sent: maanantai 29. tammikuuta 2018 9.50 > To: Jani Heikkinen > Cc: development@qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those > > On 29 January 2018 at 08:59, Jani Heikkinen wrote: > > - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode > > - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, > > just cherry picks from stable > > - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the final release from > > Qt 5.10 series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we shouldn't keep Qt > > 5.10 active too long) > > - '5.11' will be to one and only stable branch > > > The problem here is that there are bugfixes that need to go into 5.9 but > cannot > go into 5.11, for a variety of reasons. We need to keep 5.9 open for direct > submissions. Hmm, I think putting '5.9' in cherry pick mode with this schedule is agreed way of working, see http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst And I don't see big issue there; amount of 5.9 specific fixes should be really minimal and if one really needed we can get that in without putting it first in stable: Cherry pick "mode" is more "way of working" & checks are included in sanity bot. And it can be overwritten if really needed. br, Jani ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
On 29 January 2018 at 10:06, Jani Heikkinen wrote: >> On 29 January 2018 at 08:59, Jani Heikkinen wrote: >> > - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode >> > - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, >> > just cherry picks from stable >> > - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the final release from >> > Qt 5.10 series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we shouldn't keep Qt >> > 5.10 active too long) >> > - '5.11' will be to one and only stable branch >> >> >> The problem here is that there are bugfixes that need to go into 5.9 but >> cannot >> go into 5.11, for a variety of reasons. We need to keep 5.9 open for direct >> submissions. > > Hmm, I think putting '5.9' in cherry pick mode with this schedule is agreed > way of working, see http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst > And I don't see big issue there; amount of 5.9 specific fixes should be > really minimal and if one really needed we can get that in without putting it > first in stable: Cherry pick "mode" is more "way of working" & checks are > included in sanity bot. And it can be overwritten if really needed. Yeah, and I was actually thinking more along the lines of boot2qt, where some things have completely different implementations between 5.9 and 5.11, and changes just don't merge. So alrighty then, consider my concern withdrawn. ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
Hi, I feel that we are generally guiding our users towards the LTS releases. The minor releases appear to address in particular users who need a particular feature before it hits the next LTS release. In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS branches open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not LTS. Simon From: Development on behalf of Jani Heikkinen Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 7:59:06 AM To: development@qt-project.org Subject: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those Hi, We have currently really many branches open: - 5.6 - 5.9 - 5.10 - 5.10.1 - 5.11 - dev In my opinion this is too much to handle effectively, especially because there is many branches in stable mode (see http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst). Currently '5.6' is in 'strict' mode and '5.9', 5.10' & '5.11' are in stable... I think we need to change that to be able to work efficiently & get releases out. So I am proposing following changes starting from 1st Feb 2018: - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, just cherry picks from stable - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the final release from Qt 5.10 series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we shouldn't keep Qt 5.10 active too long) - '5.11' will be to one and only stable branch br, Jani ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 06:59:06 +, Jani Heikkinen wrote: > - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode - '5.9' will move in 'strict' > mode. This type of discussion has to be lead, before making a LTS promise ! Trying to change this later - without having any argument beside, that maintaining stable branches is cumbersome - makes your LTS promises nothing but unreliable. But IMHO you are also asking the wrong audience. Qt development is the right group, when discussing if a release should be a LTS one. But if you want to change the cycle of an existing LTS version you should ask those to whom you made the promise: the users. Speaking for myself: I'm only interested in LTS versions and I could easily live without releases that never go beyond 5.x.1 ( like f.e 5.10 ). Uwe ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
> On 29 Jan 2018, at 10:00, Uwe Rathmann wrote: > > On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 06:59:06 +, Jani Heikkinen wrote: > >> - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode - '5.9' will move in 'strict' >> mode. > > This type of discussion has to be lead, before making a LTS promise ! Of course. We had that discussion, see QUIP 5. According to what's defined there, 5.6 should move into 'very strict' mode for the third year, so that is pretty much from now onwards. 5.9 should move into strict mode with cherry-picking, also in line with QUIP 5. So I agree with these two changes, they are IMO fully in line with what we have said and promised. I think this only leaves a question around the proposal for 5.10. We've usually left that branch open until the next minor release is out. Cheers, Lars > > Trying to change this later - without having any argument beside, that > maintaining stable branches is cumbersome - makes your LTS promises > nothing but unreliable. > > But IMHO you are also asking the wrong audience. Qt development is the > right group, when discussing if a release should be a LTS one. But if you > want to change the cycle of an existing LTS version you should ask those > to whom you made the promise: the users. > > Speaking for myself: I'm only interested in LTS versions and I could > easily live without releases that never go beyond 5.x.1 ( like f.e 5.10 ). > > Uwe > > > ___ > Development mailing list > Development@qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
On 29/01/18 07:59, Jani Heikkinen wrote: > We have currently really many branches open: > - 5.6 > - 5.9 > - 5.10 > - 5.10.1 > - 5.11 > - dev > > In my opinion this is too much to handle effectively, especially because > there is many branches in stable mode (see > http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst). Currently '5.6' is > in 'strict' mode and '5.9', 5.10' & '5.11' are in stable... I think we need > to change that to be able to work efficiently & get releases out. Could you please elaborate, what's the problem at the moment when you say that it's "too much" to handle? Is it a matter that branches have become different enough that merges don't apply any longer? Is it a matter of bandwidth for the releasing team having to produce releases from several branches? > > So I am proposing following changes starting from 1st Feb 2018: > > - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode Which by the way is already the case, in practice. E.g. there have been ~20-30 patches landing in qtbase/5.6, with over half being fixes for flaky autotests. > - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, just > cherry picks from stable This was also proposed a few days ago (to change in 'strict' mode after 5.11 branching is completed). I have mixed feelings about that, in the sense that in 6 months from now noone will be doing the cherry-picks because of the extra work, thus leaving bugs in 5.9 in the name of stability, but somehow breaks the LTS promise. > - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the final release from Qt 5.10 > series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we shouldn't keep Qt 5.10 active too > long) I don't agree, 5.10 releases should be done on a regular basis until 5.11.1 is out (Yes, .1, many users don't upgrade to .0 versions...) My 2 cents, -- Giuseppe D'Angelo | giuseppe.dang...@kdab.com | Senior Software Engineer KDAB (UK) Ltd., a KDAB Group company | Tel: UK +44-1625-809908 KDAB - The Qt, C++ and OpenGL Experts smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
> -Original Message-
> From: Development [mailto:development-bounces+jani.heikkinen=qt.io@qt-
> project.org] On Behalf Of Giuseppe D'Angelo
> Sent: maanantai 29. tammikuuta 2018 11.31
> To: development@qt-project.org
> Subject: Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
>
> On 29/01/18 07:59, Jani Heikkinen wrote:
> > We have currently really many branches open:
> > - 5.6
> > - 5.9
> > - 5.10
> > - 5.10.1
> > - 5.11
> > - dev
> >
> > In my opinion this is too much to handle effectively, especially because
> > there is
> many branches in stable mode (see
> http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst). Currently '5.6' is
> in
> 'strict' mode and '5.9', 5.10' & '5.11' are in stable... I think we need to
> change
> that to be able to work efficiently & get releases out.
>
> Could you please elaborate, what's the problem at the moment when you say
> that it's "too much" to handle? Is it a matter that branches have become
> different enough that merges don't apply any longer? Is it a matter of
> bandwidth
> for the releasing team having to produce releases from several branches?
The problem is resource usage side at the moment. I think merges are still
applying quite well but it is really big effort needed to do merges from
('5.9.x')->'5.9' ->(5.10.x)->'5.10'->'5.11'->'dev'. This is manpower, hw
capasity and timing issue: It takes really long time to get a fix in every
branch where it is needed and it also consumes lots of hw capasity to run CI on
all these branches + run qt5.git integrations. And of course it is really hard
for release team to get that much releases out (also HW usage point of view:
RTA uses quite much resources while testing all these releases and snapshots).
Moving '5.9' to strict mode helps there with merges and removing one release
would help with all these issues, that's why I did this proposal.
br,
Jani
___
Development mailing list
Development@qt-project.org
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Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
“stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not LTS.” +1 _ From: Simon Hausmann Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 3:16 AM Subject: Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those To: Jani Heikkinen , Hi, I feel that we are generally guiding our users towards the LTS releases. The minor releases appear to address in particular users who need a particular feature before it hits the next LTS release. In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS branches open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not LTS. Simon From: Development on behalf of Jani Heikkinen Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 7:59:06 AM To: development@qt-project.org Subject: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those Hi, We have currently really many branches open: - 5.6 - 5.9 - 5.10 - 5.10.1 - 5.11 - dev In my opinion this is too much to handle effectively, especially because there is many branches in stable mode (seehttp://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst). Currently '5.6' is in 'strict' mode and '5.9', 5.10' & '5.11' are in stable... I think we need to change that to be able to work efficiently & get releases out. So I am proposing following changes starting from 1st Feb 2018: - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, just cherry picks from stable - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the final release from Qt 5.10 series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we shouldn't keep Qt 5.10 active too long) - '5.11' will be to one and only stable branch br, Jani ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
Hi, As long as we don't have enough time fix all the problems in a non LTS release, I think releasing at least one patch version is not that bad ... Yours, BogDan. În ziua de luni, 29 ianuarie 2018, la 10:15:51 EET, Simon Hausmann a scris: > Hi, > > > I feel that we are generally guiding our users towards the LTS releases. The > minor releases appear to address in particular users who need a particular > feature before it hits the next LTS release. > > > In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS branches > open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not > LTS. > > > > Simon > > > From: Development > on behalf of Jani Heikkinen Sent: Monday, January > 29, 2018 7:59:06 AM > To: development@qt-project.org > Subject: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those > > Hi, > > We have currently really many branches open: > - 5.6 > - 5.9 > - 5.10 > - 5.10.1 > - 5.11 > - dev > > In my opinion this is too much to handle effectively, especially because > there is many branches in stable mode (see > http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst). Currently '5.6' > is in 'strict' mode and '5.9', 5.10' & '5.11' are in stable... I think we > need to change that to be able to work efficiently & get releases out. > > So I am proposing following changes starting from 1st Feb 2018: > > - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode > - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, just > cherry picks from stable - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the > final release from Qt 5.10 series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we > shouldn't keep Qt 5.10 active too long) - '5.11' will be to one and only > stable branch > > br, > > Jani > ___ > Development mailing list > Development@qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
29.01.2018, 11:16, "Simon Hausmann" : > Hi, > > I feel that we are generally guiding our users towards the LTS releases. The > minor releases appear to address in particular users who need a particular > feature before it hits the next LTS release. > > In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS branches > open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not LTS. When 5.x.0 is released, there is always a bunch of non-P0 bug fixes in 5.x branch which missed the release because of timing issues. I propose following workflow: 1) after 5.x.0 is branched, 5.x is kept open and bug fixes go there 2) after 5.x.0 is finally released, 5.x.1 branching starts immediately with usual one-week buffer time 3) after that, 5.x is closed down > > Simon > > From: Development > on behalf of Jani Heikkinen > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 7:59:06 AM > To: development@qt-project.org > Subject: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those > > Hi, > > We have currently really many branches open: > - 5.6 > - 5.9 > - 5.10 > - 5.10.1 > - 5.11 > - dev > > In my opinion this is too much to handle effectively, especially because > there is many branches in stable mode (see > http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst). Currently '5.6' is > in 'strict' mode and '5.9', 5.10' & '5.11' are in stable... I think we need > to change that to be able to work efficiently & get releases out. > > So I am proposing following changes starting from 1st Feb 2018: > > - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode > - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, just > cherry picks from stable > - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the final release from Qt 5.10 > series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we shouldn't keep Qt 5.10 active too > long) > - '5.11' will be to one and only stable branch > > br, > > Jani > ___ > Development mailing list > Development@qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development > , > > ___ > Development mailing list > Development@qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development -- Regards, Konstantin ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
Right, so one patch release per non-LTS minor release to fix bloopers :) Simon From: Konstantin Tokarev Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 1:27:49 PM To: Simon Hausmann; Jani Heikkinen; development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those 29.01.2018, 11:16, "Simon Hausmann" : > Hi, > > I feel that we are generally guiding our users towards the LTS releases. The > minor releases appear to address in particular users who need a particular > feature before it hits the next LTS release. > > In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS branches > open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not LTS. When 5.x.0 is released, there is always a bunch of non-P0 bug fixes in 5.x branch which missed the release because of timing issues. I propose following workflow: 1) after 5.x.0 is branched, 5.x is kept open and bug fixes go there 2) after 5.x.0 is finally released, 5.x.1 branching starts immediately with usual one-week buffer time 3) after that, 5.x is closed down > > Simon > > From: Development > on behalf of Jani Heikkinen > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 7:59:06 AM > To: development@qt-project.org > Subject: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those > > Hi, > > We have currently really many branches open: > - 5.6 > - 5.9 > - 5.10 > - 5.10.1 > - 5.11 > - dev > > In my opinion this is too much to handle effectively, especially because > there is many branches in stable mode (see > http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst). Currently '5.6' is > in 'strict' mode and '5.9', 5.10' & '5.11' are in stable... I think we need > to change that to be able to work efficiently & get releases out. > > So I am proposing following changes starting from 1st Feb 2018: > > - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode > - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, just > cherry picks from stable > - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the final release from Qt 5.10 > series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we shouldn't keep Qt 5.10 active too > long) > - '5.11' will be to one and only stable branch > > br, > > Jani > ___ > Development mailing list > Development@qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development > , > > ___ > Development mailing list > Development@qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development -- Regards, Konstantin ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
29.01.2018, 15:30, "Simon Hausmann" : > Right, so one patch release per non-LTS minor release to fix bloopers :) If there are bugs featured in "Known Issues" which can be fixed in reasonable time they could be merged directly to 5.x.1 branch after 1-week deadline as an exception. > > Simon > > From: Konstantin Tokarev > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 1:27:49 PM > To: Simon Hausmann; Jani Heikkinen; development@qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those > > 29.01.2018, 11:16, "Simon Hausmann" : >> Hi, >> >> I feel that we are generally guiding our users towards the LTS releases. The >> minor releases appear to address in particular users who need a particular >> feature before it hits the next LTS release. >> >> In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS branches >> open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not >> LTS. > > When 5.x.0 is released, there is always a bunch of non-P0 bug fixes in 5.x > branch which missed the release because of timing issues. > > I propose following workflow: > > 1) after 5.x.0 is branched, 5.x is kept open and bug fixes go there > 2) after 5.x.0 is finally released, 5.x.1 branching starts immediately with > usual one-week buffer time > 3) after that, 5.x is closed down > >> >> Simon >> >> From: Development >> on behalf of Jani Heikkinen >> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 7:59:06 AM >> To: development@qt-project.org >> Subject: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those >> >> Hi, >> >> We have currently really many branches open: >> - 5.6 >> - 5.9 >> - 5.10 >> - 5.10.1 >> - 5.11 >> - dev >> >> In my opinion this is too much to handle effectively, especially because >> there is many branches in stable mode (see >> http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst). Currently '5.6' >> is in 'strict' mode and '5.9', 5.10' & '5.11' are in stable... I think we >> need to change that to be able to work efficiently & get releases out. >> >> So I am proposing following changes starting from 1st Feb 2018: >> >> - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode >> - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, just >> cherry picks from stable >> - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the final release from Qt 5.10 >> series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we shouldn't keep Qt 5.10 active too >> long) >> - '5.11' will be to one and only stable branch >> >> br, >> >> Jani >> ___ >> Development mailing list >> Development@qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development >> , >> >> ___ >> Development mailing list >> Development@qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development > > -- > Regards, > Konstantin -- Regards, Konstantin ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
Simon Hausmann wrote: > In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS branches > open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not > LTS. -1 from a distro packager perspective. LTS just does not fit together with fast-moving distributions, and we really need those bugfix releases for the branches we ship. Especially QtWebEngine requires those bugfix releases for security fixes, and tracking LTS is not that great there because the base Chromium gets old pretty quickly, and websites start complaining (e.g., Google already complains about 5.9 being an outdated Chromium) or even stop working altogether. The frequency of LTS releases has also so far been totally insufficient to keep up with Chromium security fixes (see the huge amount of time – almost a whole year! – between 5.6.2 and 5.6.3). I would rather see LTS canceled and more effort put into the current releases, if having both is a problem. Kevin Kofler ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
Giuseppe D'Angelo wrote: > I don't agree, 5.10 releases should be done on a regular basis until > 5.11.1 is out (Yes, .1, many users don't upgrade to .0 versions...) +1, I also agree with you and therefore disagree with the original proposal. Especially security warrants always having one current release branch active. There is one Qt component (QtWebEngine) for which it is essentially GUARANTEED that there will be security concerns to address. In addition, security issues can hit any Qt component at any time. Those MUST be addressed in a timely manner for Qt to be usable. While offering security fixes as patches attached to security advisories can work for some components, this is not always workable. In particular, QtWebEngine just cannot be handled that way. And of course, there can also be other bugs that users will want fixed sooner rather than later. Kevin Kofler ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 10:31:14 +0100 Giuseppe D'Angelo wrote: > On 29/01/18 07:59, Jani Heikkinen wrote: > > We have currently really many branches open: > > - 5.6 > > - 5.9 > > - 5.10 > > - 5.10.1 > > - 5.11 > > - dev > > > > In my opinion this is too much to handle effectively, especially because > > there is many branches in stable mode (see > > http://code.qt.io/cgit/meta/quips.git/tree/quip-0005.rst). Currently '5.6' > > is in 'strict' mode and '5.9', 5.10' & '5.11' are in stable... I think we > > need to change that to be able to work efficiently & get releases out. > > Could you please elaborate, what's the problem at the moment when you > say that it's "too much" to handle? Is it a matter that branches have > become different enough that merges don't apply any longer? Is it a > matter of bandwidth for the releasing team having to produce releases > from several branches? > > > > > So I am proposing following changes starting from 1st Feb 2018: > > > > - '5.6' will move in 'very strict' mode > > Which by the way is already the case, in practice. E.g. there have been > ~20-30 patches landing in qtbase/5.6, with over half being fixes for > flaky autotests. > > > - '5.9' will move in 'strict' mode. So no direct submissions anymore, just > > cherry picks from stable > > This was also proposed a few days ago (to change in 'strict' mode after > 5.11 branching is completed). I have mixed feelings about that, in the > sense that in 6 months from now noone will be doing the cherry-picks > because of the extra work, thus leaving bugs in 5.9 in the name of > stability, but somehow breaks the LTS promise. +1 This will also introduce extra work in patching 5.9 (every change that has to go to 5.9 has to be pushed twice, due to no more forward merges) > > > - '5.10' will be closed and Qt 5.10.1 will be the final release from Qt > > 5.10 series (5.6 and 5.9 are LTS branches so we shouldn't keep Qt 5.10 > > active too long) > > I don't agree, 5.10 releases should be done on a regular basis until > 5.11.1 is out (Yes, .1, many users don't upgrade to .0 versions...) +1 here too Closing 5.10 before 5.11 isn't even released, and actually after just 2 months of releasing, also doesn't seem good marketing material for the project.. > > My 2 cents, ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 02:32:58PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Simon Hausmann wrote: > > In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS branches > > open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not > > LTS. > > -1 from a distro packager perspective. LTS just does not fit together with > fast-moving distributions, and we really need those bugfix releases for the > branches we ship. > > Especially QtWebEngine requires those bugfix releases for security fixes, > and tracking LTS is not that great there because the base Chromium gets old > pretty quickly, and websites start complaining (e.g., Google already > complains about 5.9 being an outdated Chromium) or even stop working > altogether. The frequency of LTS releases has also so far been totally > insufficient to keep up with Chromium security fixes (see the huge amount of > time – almost a whole year! – between 5.6.2 and 5.6.3). > > I would rather see LTS canceled and more effort put into the current > releases, if having both is a problem. I can't agree more - while I'm not a distro packager, I'm a maintainer of an opensource project[1] using QtWebEngine. 5.x.0 releases are often quite painful, as they're full of regressions introduced because of new Chromium versions. I try to find report those as soon as possible, but there are always issues ([2] for an example) which only surface after a release. Like Kevin said, of course security updates are also a big issue, and only getting them all 6 months is definitely not good... Florian [1] https://www.qutebrowser.org/ [2] https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-65223 -- https://www.qutebrowser.org | m...@the-compiler.org (Mail/XMPP) GPG: 916E B0C8 FD55 A072 | https://the-compiler.org/pubkey.asc I love long mails! | https://email.is-not-s.ms/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
29.01.2018, 16:33, "Kevin Kofler" : > Simon Hausmann wrote: >> In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS branches >> open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not >> LTS. > > -1 from a distro packager perspective. LTS just does not fit together with > fast-moving distributions, and we really need those bugfix releases for the > branches we ship. > > Especially QtWebEngine requires those bugfix releases for security fixes, > and tracking LTS is not that great there because the base Chromium gets old > pretty quickly, and websites start complaining (e.g., Google already > complains about 5.9 being an outdated Chromium) or even stop working > altogether. The frequency of LTS releases has also so far been totally > insufficient to keep up with Chromium security fixes (see the huge amount of > time – almost a whole year! – between 5.6.2 and 5.6.3). > > I would rather see LTS canceled and more effort put into the current > releases, if having both is a problem. Note that you can build newer QtWebEngine releases against LTS Qt > > Kevin Kofler > > ___ > Development mailing list > Development@qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development -- Regards, Konstantin ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
On segunda-feira, 29 de janeiro de 2018 04:10:02 PST Adam Treat wrote: > “stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not LTS.” > > +1 So long as we "stop after the .1" Just look at how many distributions skipped 5.8 entirely because it didn't have a .1. That was a huge mistake on our part. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
Konstantin Tokarev wrote: > Note that you can build newer QtWebEngine releases against LTS Qt I know, and I am already doing this, but this does not help if there is no newer QtWebEngine release to begin with! Even taking a snapshot is typically not an option because security fixes are only backported in batches when a release is imminent (and in any case, will never be backported to a closed release branch). If QtWebEngine releases actually get decoupled from Qt releases, that could address this issue, but as things are now, the Qt bugfix releases are needed for QtWebEngine. Kevin Kofler ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
Hi, To comment a bit this discussion, I think that with Qt 5.10 as the first release after the LTS it might be fine to stop after .1, but in general I would not want to set such a rule. To me the question at hand is should we skip Qt 5.10.2 release if that means we can put more fixes into Qt 5.9.x and manage to release Qt 5.11 in time? As Jani pointed out the challenge is number of stable branches and the needed amount of merges. Users prefer LTS releases, so focusing the effort to have more bug fixes and patch releases for the LTS release rather than the LTS+1 release benefits a higher amount of users than the other way around. That said, we should not continue to push majority of fixes to Qt 5.9 too long as that is also counterproductive for the need to have a rock solid LTS release. Yours, Tuukka On 29/01/2018, 18.11, "Development on behalf of Thiago Macieira" wrote: On segunda-feira, 29 de janeiro de 2018 04:10:02 PST Adam Treat wrote: > “stop doing patch releases for minor releases that are not LTS.” > > +1 So long as we "stop after the .1" Just look at how many distributions skipped 5.8 entirely because it didn't have a .1. That was a huge mistake on our part. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
Tuukka Turunen wrote: > Users prefer LTS releases According to what statistics? Also keep in mind that distributions will download Qt once and redistribute it to thousands of users. And also that there are 2 classes of Qt users: application developers and end users. Such a bold claim really ought to be more substantiated than that. I would on the contrary expect users to want new features sooner rather than later, also considering that Qt is almost 100% backwards compatible from one release to the next anyway, but that is just a feeling with no statistics at all. Kevin Kofler ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
Hi, This is not an either-or thing. Of course both having new feature releases and stable LTS are important. I am not claiming otherwise. My point is that there are more users for the LTS versions, thus I used the expression. There are a lot of users for both, we do not need to have a poll to know that these are both important. I still would like to emphasize the point I made in my e-mail: this is to me specifically about what do we do to Qt 5.10 branch after release of Qt 5.10.1. Not about stopping patch releases altogether for other than LTS. Yours, Tuukka On 30/01/2018, 1.19, "Development on behalf of Kevin Kofler" wrote: Tuukka Turunen wrote: > Users prefer LTS releases According to what statistics? Also keep in mind that distributions will download Qt once and redistribute it to thousands of users. And also that there are 2 classes of Qt users: application developers and end users. Such a bold claim really ought to be more substantiated than that. I would on the contrary expect users to want new features sooner rather than later, also considering that Qt is almost 100% backwards compatible from one release to the next anyway, but that is just a feeling with no statistics at all. Kevin Kofler ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
On segunda-feira, 29 de janeiro de 2018 21:57:38 PST Tuukka Turunen wrote: > Hi, > > This is not an either-or thing. Of course both having new feature releases > and stable LTS are important. I am not claiming otherwise. My point is that > there are more users for the LTS versions, thus I used the expression. And that's exactly what Kevin objected: you don't present any data to say that there are more for LTS compared to others. All we know is that there are users for both and we also know that there are some users who cannot upgrade because we dropped platforms in both 5.10 an 5.11. > I still would like to emphasize the point I made in my e-mail: this is to me > specifically about what do we do to Qt 5.10 branch after release of Qt > 5.10.1. Not about stopping patch releases altogether for other than LTS. My opinion is: we continue it until at least 5.11.0. I understand that there are a lot of branches, but most of them have little to no activity: qtbase $ git rev-list --count --since=6.months.ago origin/5.6 21 qtbase $ git rev-list --count --since=3.months.ago origin/5.6 7 qtdeclarative $ git rev-list --count --since=6.months.ago origin/5.6 8 qtdeclarative $ git rev-list --count --since=3.months.ago origin/5.6 1 All of Qt 5.6 has 44 commits total for the last 6 months, 8 in the last three. That also means only two repositories in 5.6 changed in the last three months: qtbase and qtdeclarative. The time between the last and the second-to-last commits in qtbase was over a month. So at this point 5.6 basically doesn't count. So we effectively have open 5.9, 5.10, 5.11 and dev, which is the same quantity as just after the 5.8 branching (5.6, 5.7, 5.8 and dev). And that's exactly what led to the worst release of all: 5.8.0. Let's not repeat that mistake. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those
> -Original Message- > From: Development [mailto:development-bounces+jani.heikkinen=qt.io@qt- > project.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Kofler > Sent: maanantai 29. tammikuuta 2018 15.33 > To: development@qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] Qt branches & proposal how to continue with those > > Simon Hausmann wrote: > > In the light of that, I think it would be better to keep the LTS > > branches open longer and stop doing patch releases for minor releases > > that are not LTS. > > -1 from a distro packager perspective. LTS just does not fit together with > fast- > moving distributions, and we really need those bugfix releases for the > branches > we ship. I have to disagree there: We have already released 4 patch level releases for LTS 5.9 so it is actually moving quite fast. br, Jani ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
