Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Pasi Keränen]

Hi,

Repos can be relocated to new homes if really needed, but I think it’s fair to 
say more generic location is definitely preferred from Qt 3D Studio point of 
view.

To make this even easier I’d even start with a playground repo if nothing else 
can be found. Qt has always been (despite our vocal and sometimes a bit harsh 
dialogue) inclusive, so it should be fine to go and experiment with all things 
UI related. Just to see if something is worth the effort or not.

Regards,
Pasi

From: Development  on 
behalf of Maurice Kalinowski 
Date: Friday, 23 February 2018 at 9.33
To: Tino Pyssysalo , Simon Hausmann 
, Tuukka Turunen , 
"qt-crea...@qt-project.org" , 
"development@qt-project.org" 
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator

“The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for 
analytics”

If that is the case, then qt-creator/telemetry is the wrong repository to ask 
for. If you are aiming at something generic, then it should be qt/

Maurice

Von: Qt-creator 
[mailto:qt-creator-bounces+maurice.kalinowski=qt...@qt-project.org] Im Auftrag 
von Tino Pyssysalo
Gesendet: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:59 PM
An: Simon Hausmann ; Tuukka Turunen 
; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; development@qt-project.org
Betreff: Re: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator

Hi,

The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for 
analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide 
that.

We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to 
collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the 
plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, 
we do not do that for our commercial tooling.

Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user 
in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the 
answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed.  When the creator is 
started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of 
collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be 
a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any 
used, and transmitted data to the user.
--
Tino


On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" 
> wrote:


Hi,



Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits 
into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it 
accessible to the community?



(-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified)



Simon


From: Development 
>
 on behalf of Tuukka Turunen >
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM
To: Tino Pyssysalo; 
qt-crea...@qt-project.org; 
development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator




Hi,



+1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
could be useful also for other applications.



Yours,



 Tuukka



From: Qt-creator 
>
 on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo >
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
>
Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator



Description:



Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.

Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will 
be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.



Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo



Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry





---

Tino Pyssysalo

Senior Manager



The Qt Company

Hämeenkatu 14 C 25

33100 Tampere, Finland

tino.pyssys...@qt.io

+358 40 8615475

http://qt.io



The future is Written with Qt

---




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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Maurice Kalinowski]

“The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for 
analytics”

If that is the case, then qt-creator/telemetry is the wrong repository to ask 
for. If you are aiming at something generic, then it should be qt/

Maurice

Von: Qt-creator 
[mailto:qt-creator-bounces+maurice.kalinowski=qt...@qt-project.org] Im Auftrag 
von Tino Pyssysalo
Gesendet: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:59 PM
An: Simon Hausmann ; Tuukka Turunen 
; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; development@qt-project.org
Betreff: Re: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator

Hi,

The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for 
analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide 
that.

We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to 
collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the 
plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, 
we do not do that for our commercial tooling.

Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user 
in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the 
answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed.  When the creator is 
started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of 
collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be 
a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any 
used, and transmitted data to the user.
--
Tino


On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" 
> wrote:


Hi,



Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits 
into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it 
accessible to the community?



(-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified)



Simon


From: Development 
>
 on behalf of Tuukka Turunen >
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM
To: Tino Pyssysalo; 
qt-crea...@qt-project.org; 
development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator




Hi,



+1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
could be useful also for other applications.



Yours,



 Tuukka



From: Qt-creator 
>
 on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo >
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
>
Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator



Description:



Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.

Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will 
be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.



Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo



Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry





---

Tino Pyssysalo

Senior Manager



The Qt Company

Hämeenkatu 14 C 25

33100 Tampere, Finland

tino.pyssys...@qt.io

+358 40 8615475

http://qt.io



The future is Written with Qt

---




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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Pasi Keränen]

Hi there,

+1 for having a generic telemetry plugin in Qt.

This is great initiative and very much the way today's app and application 
industry works. UX studies performed by UX experts have been minimized and 
targeted for specific (usually new/experimental) features or upcoming new 
software (like we did with Qt 3D Studio back in last spring). And the mass 
information on "how do our users use the SW? do they find the stuff we've put 
in there? how often they hit a wall in doing sequence X? how many crashes do 
they experience when doing Y?" is collected via automated telemetry. It is 
great as it brings data from the actual user in their actual work and you can 
then use that to concentrate on functionality that really matters to your 
users. Making stuff they repeat hundred times a week easier and faster, making 
them more productive.

I see definite need for this in Qt 3D Studio so please don’t make this just 
with Qt Creator in mind. Also, in my humble opinion, in order to be relevant in 
today's UI development, Qt should also offer this kind of a plug-in to our 
customers. A ready-to-go plug-in that automatically ensures the data is 
collected in a way that fulfills data privacy acts and respects the privacy of 
the user would be great. Especially for startups and smaller companies, but 
also for bigger companies wanting to switch to the modern way of doing UI 
development. It is not as easy to do as one might think at glance.

I would ask anyone who has not done work with usability and user experience 
people in the past to give this way of working a chance. I've worked 7 years in 
application development while we grew usability knowledge in the team over that 
time. The first time I got to observe a real world user working with our 
software in actual real world situation was eye opening. We had gotten so many 
important things wrong in our idealistic thinking and forgotten to handle 
certain cases that occur on the field. Also you become blind to your own 
creations faults as you just know how the software works. It's just a fact of 
life.

Regards,
Pasi Keränen

--
Senior Manager, 3D
The Qt Company





On 22/02/2018, 22.36, "Development on behalf of André Pönitz" 
 wrote:

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 01:58:55PM +, Tino Pyssysalo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for
> analytics.

I see no reason why this can't be done as part of e.g. the commercial Qt
offering, with customers being free to deploy that if they feel it helps
their own offering (for whatever reasons that I luckily do not need to
comprehend), nor do I see a reason why this should be used by the Qt
Project's Qt Creator, especially when the people potentially acting on the
results expressed severe dislike and doubts on the usefulness of such
analytics for their work.

For an Open Source solution there is e.g. KUserFeedback. I haven't used
that myself, but judging from the description it appears to do what you
claim to want to do, and judging from a quick look at the code and the
name of the author I am ready to bet its implementation is sane.

So I really have a hard time to see a gap here that needs to be filled.

> The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide
> that.
> 
> We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to
> collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the
> plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously,
> we do not do that for our commercial tooling.
> 
> Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user
> in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the
> answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed.  When the creator is
> started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of
> collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be
> a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any
> used, and transmitted data to the user.  -- Tino

At some point you need to qualify what you mean when you use the word "we".
Your current use of "we" clearly does not include myself, nor, if you allow
me to extrapolate from the grapevine, the majority of the Qt Creator team.

So, 
  - who is "we"?
  - why is "us" (the Qt Creator team) not part of "we"
when the topic is related to Qt Creator?
  - what data do you intent to collect exactly?
  - what mechanism do you plan to use to translate
the collected data into what actions?


Andre'

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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[André Pönitz]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 01:58:55PM +, Tino Pyssysalo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for
> analytics.

I see no reason why this can't be done as part of e.g. the commercial Qt
offering, with customers being free to deploy that if they feel it helps
their own offering (for whatever reasons that I luckily do not need to
comprehend), nor do I see a reason why this should be used by the Qt
Project's Qt Creator, especially when the people potentially acting on the
results expressed severe dislike and doubts on the usefulness of such
analytics for their work.

For an Open Source solution there is e.g. KUserFeedback. I haven't used
that myself, but judging from the description it appears to do what you
claim to want to do, and judging from a quick look at the code and the
name of the author I am ready to bet its implementation is sane.

So I really have a hard time to see a gap here that needs to be filled.

> The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide
> that.
> 
> We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to
> collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the
> plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously,
> we do not do that for our commercial tooling.
> 
> Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user
> in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the
> answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed.  When the creator is
> started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of
> collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be
> a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any
> used, and transmitted data to the user.  -- Tino

At some point you need to qualify what you mean when you use the word "we".
Your current use of "we" clearly does not include myself, nor, if you allow
me to extrapolate from the grapevine, the majority of the Qt Creator team.

So, 
  - who is "we"?
  - why is "us" (the Qt Creator team) not part of "we"
when the topic is related to Qt Creator?
  - what data do you intent to collect exactly?
  - what mechanism do you plan to use to translate
the collected data into what actions?


Andre'

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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Tomasz Siekierda]

Another point: if you do collect usage data, please bear in mind that
sometimes a feature can be used very rarely, but still be vital. In other
words, do not consider a feature as "unnecessary" or "can be deprecated" if
it is not used often.

For example, I mostly do mobile and desktop apps, but I still do want the
remote linux deployment to work smoothly for rare occasions when I need to
use it.

On 22 February 2018 at 20:05, André Pönitz  wrote:

>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 04:42:55PM +0300, Konstantin Tokarev wrote:
> > 22.02.2018, 16:39, "Ryein Goddard" :
> > > This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be
> > > completely honest I think it is 100% useless.
>
> I fully subscribe to that.
>
> > > If you don't know what people
> > > are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with
> > > them.  You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to
> figure
> > > out what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with.  Why
> not
> > > just take a few surveys a year?
> >
> > Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of
> > crashes or memory leaking in clangbackend
>
> Any number for a "measured" value for rate of crashes or memory leaks
> is uninteresting for me when I run into the problem myself reqularly.
> And trust me, I do.
>
> As someone who has been working on Qt Creator for more than a decade I
> *do* know
> about issues in the IDE by my own use of it, by the significant backlog of
> bug
> reports in JIRA, and by interacting with (sometimes referred to as
> "talking to")
> actual users.
>
> The currently 399 open issues assigned to me personally would already be
> enough
> to keep me busy for approximately a $WHILE, full time, not including time
> spent in
> review processes etc.
>
> I certainly do not need another input channel that makes me spent time on
> guessing how the information that "user A spent at time B an amount of C
> minutes
> working on project named D" will translate into making my work more
> efficient
> nor in how to improve Qt Creator in general. In fact, I consider all of
> that
> irrelevant and detrimental and would strongly prefer to *not* get access
> to such
> information, and neither to anyone's interpretation what bug report this
> information may relate to.
>
> That makes a clear -1 from my side for technical reasons already.
>
> Neither legal nor ethical considerations are likely to improve that.
>
> Andre' (not speaking for any company etc etc)
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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[André Pönitz]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 04:42:55PM +0300, Konstantin Tokarev wrote:
> 22.02.2018, 16:39, "Ryein Goddard" :
> > This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be
> > completely honest I think it is 100% useless. 

I fully subscribe to that.

> > If you don't know what people
> > are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with
> > them.  You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to figure
> > out what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with.  Why not
> > just take a few surveys a year?
> 
> Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of
> crashes or memory leaking in clangbackend

Any number for a "measured" value for rate of crashes or memory leaks
is uninteresting for me when I run into the problem myself reqularly.
And trust me, I do.

As someone who has been working on Qt Creator for more than a decade I *do* know
about issues in the IDE by my own use of it, by the significant backlog of bug
reports in JIRA, and by interacting with (sometimes referred to as "talking to")
actual users.

The currently 399 open issues assigned to me personally would already be enough
to keep me busy for approximately a $WHILE, full time, not including time spent 
in
review processes etc.

I certainly do not need another input channel that makes me spent time on
guessing how the information that "user A spent at time B an amount of C minutes
working on project named D" will translate into making my work more efficient
nor in how to improve Qt Creator in general. In fact, I consider all of that
irrelevant and detrimental and would strongly prefer to *not* get access to such
information, and neither to anyone's interpretation what bug report this
information may relate to.

That makes a clear -1 from my side for technical reasons already.

Neither legal nor ethical considerations are likely to improve that.

Andre' (not speaking for any company etc etc)
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Re: [Development] Prebuilt 32-bit versjon for MSVC 2017

[Thiago Macieira]

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 01:39:50 PST Tim Blechmann wrote:
> > Currently Qt ships with 32-bit binaries for MSVC 2015, but not for
> > MSVC 2017. The Qt Company have received requests for adding prebuilt
> > 32-bit binaries also for MSVC 2017. By adding more prebuilt binaries,
> > we increase the complexity, and add to the overall maintenance of our
> > QA system. Our preferred approach would be to add binaries for MSVC
> > 2017 and remove the binaries for MSVC 2015, as the numbers of
> > binaries in the build remains the same. It will still be possible to
> > manually build Qt for MSVC 2015, in the same way as it is possible to
> > manually build for MSVC 2017 today. Feedback and viewpoints are much
> > appreciated and will enable us to make the best possible decision.
> 
> the ABI of msvc2015 and msvc2017 is the same. so unlike earlier msvc
> releases, one can mix binaries from both compilers.

In theory.

In practice, we've found that it doesn't work for Qt, at least because of the 
Q_COMPILER_xxx defines as MSVC 2015 has fewer C++11 features than 2017.

> in theory. in practice there is a still unresolved compiler bug in
> msvc2017 (we've experienced it only with static libs and debug builds,
> but i'm not sure if it has any implication on the binaries you want to
> release):

That's another one: everything compiled with MSVC 2017 has incorrect 
initialisation sequneces. You're running on borrowed time, until Microsoft 
fixes it (they're saying they'll fix it in the 15.7 release in May).

Note I did not say "static".

-- 
Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com
  Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center



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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Simon Hausmann]

Hi,


Thanks for the update, this is starting to make more sense to me.


So do I understand correctly that you'd like to have one API that you could use 
from a proprietary Qt Creator plugin (for commercial tooling) as well as from 
the installer framework, and the repository that you're requesting contains 
that API, along with the ability to dispatch to a variable backend? Beyond the 
dispatching, what functionality would you want to place into such a repository?


Can you explain what these two use-cases have in common, beyond a too generic 
"void collectData(const QString , const QVariant )" type of 
functionality? A better understanding of the common patterns and the API helps 
in finding a good name I think.


Simon


From: Tino Pyssysalo
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:58:55 PM
To: Simon Hausmann; Tuukka Turunen; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; 
development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator


Hi,



The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for 
analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide 
that.



We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to 
collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the 
plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, 
we do not do that for our commercial tooling.



Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user 
in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the 
answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed.  When the creator is 
started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of 
collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be 
a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any 
used, and transmitted data to the user.

--

Tino





On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" 
> wrote:



Hi,



Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits 
into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it 
accessible to the community?



(-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified)



Simon



From: Development  on 
behalf of Tuukka Turunen 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM
To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator





Hi,



+1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
could be useful also for other applications.



Yours,



 Tuukka



From: Qt-creator  on 
behalf of Tino Pyssysalo 
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator



Description:



Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.

Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will 
be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.



Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo



Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry





---

Tino Pyssysalo

Senior Manager



The Qt Company

Hämeenkatu 14 C 25

33100 Tampere, Finland

tino.pyssys...@qt.io

+358 40 8615475

http://qt.io



The future is Written with Qt

---




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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Marco Bubke]

It would be nice if you can explain what data you want to collect and how it 
will be help the creator development. In my view it is quite hard to collect 
data about not implemented features, so you could only provide information 
about what feature is used. So the data could be used to see what should be 
polished. But could this not lead to false impression because people don't use 
a 'very useful' features because the implementation is 'suboptimal'. Would in 
that case not JIRA a much better source of information?


From: Qt-creator  on 
behalf of Tino Pyssysalo 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:58:55 PM
To: Simon Hausmann; Tuukka Turunen; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; 
development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator


Hi,



The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for 
analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide 
that.



We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to 
collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the 
plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, 
we do not do that for our commercial tooling.



Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user 
in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the 
answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed.  When the creator is 
started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of 
collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be 
a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any 
used, and transmitted data to the user.

--

Tino





On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" 
> wrote:



Hi,



Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits 
into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it 
accessible to the community?



(-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified)



Simon



From: Development  on 
behalf of Tuukka Turunen 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM
To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator





Hi,



+1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
could be useful also for other applications.



Yours,



 Tuukka



From: Qt-creator  on 
behalf of Tino Pyssysalo 
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator



Description:



Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.

Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will 
be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.



Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo



Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry





---

Tino Pyssysalo

Senior Manager



The Qt Company

Hämeenkatu 14 C 25

33100 Tampere, Finland

tino.pyssys...@qt.io

+358 40 8615475

http://qt.io



The future is Written with Qt

---




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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Tino Pyssysalo]

Hi,

The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for 
analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide 
that.

We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to 
collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the 
plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, 
we do not do that for our commercial tooling.

Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user 
in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the 
answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed.  When the creator is 
started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of 
collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be 
a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any 
used, and transmitted data to the user.
--
Tino


On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" 
> wrote:


Hi,



Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits 
into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it 
accessible to the community?



(-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified)



Simon


From: Development  on 
behalf of Tuukka Turunen 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM
To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator




Hi,



+1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
could be useful also for other applications.



Yours,



 Tuukka



From: Qt-creator  on 
behalf of Tino Pyssysalo 
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator



Description:



Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.

Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will 
be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.



Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo



Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry





---

Tino Pyssysalo

Senior Manager



The Qt Company

Hämeenkatu 14 C 25

33100 Tampere, Finland

tino.pyssys...@qt.io

+358 40 8615475

http://qt.io



The future is Written with Qt

---




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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Simon Hausmann]

Hi,


For the charts it's indeed not so relevant what kind of charts we can 
visualize. That is an implementation detail indeed. But whether visualization 
data in charts is relevant to the users of Qt and whether we would like to make 
this part of the Qt project is certainly a question we'd clarify up-front 
before commencing development.


With the given description in this request, it is not evident to me how this 
fits into the scope of the Qt project, hence my question. I'm not asking about 
the protocol details, encoding format and memory consumption. I'm wondering 
about how the requested repository fits into Qt, and that is not clear to me 
with the provided information. I don't feel that this is an implementation 
question, it's as fundamental as the name of the repository itself.


Differently put: I'm giving -1 simply because I think more information should 
be presented to clarify the scope. I'm not saying that this would never ever 
fit into Qt. We request the same for other modules (say cloudmessaging), so I 
think it makes sense to do that here, too.


Simon


From: Tuukka Turunen
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:47:40 PM
To: Simon Hausmann; Tino Pyssysalo; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; 
development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator




Hi Simon,



Is that an item to decide at repo creation time or something to address later 
during implementation / code review? For example consider requesting a repo for 
qt/qtcharts – should we have known what data users want to visualize with it 
before having a repository (or only during the implementation of the feature)?



That said, I do agree that we should discuss about the topic if we are to 
collect user analytics data – and to also learn what kind of data is valuable 
to collect (noting that there are strict rules for anything that can be 
considered personal data). My view is that creating the requested repository 
and developing the code in the open is very good for transparency and also 
provides good opportunities for discussion during the implementation.



Yours,



 Tuukka



From: Simon Hausmann 
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 15.26
To: Tuukka Turunen , Tino Pyssysalo 
, "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
, "development@qt-project.org" 

Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator



Hi,



Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits 
into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it 
accessible to the community?



(-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified)



Simon



From: Development  on 
behalf of Tuukka Turunen 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM
To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator





Hi,



+1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
could be useful also for other applications.



Yours,



 Tuukka



From: Qt-creator  on 
behalf of Tino Pyssysalo 
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator



Description:



Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.

Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will 
be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.



Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo



Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry





---

Tino Pyssysalo

Senior Manager



The Qt Company

Hämeenkatu 14 C 25

33100 Tampere, Finland

tino.pyssys...@qt.io

+358 40 8615475

http://qt.io



The future is Written with Qt

---




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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Marco Bubke]

> Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of 
> crashes or memory leaking in clangbackend


We have a crash handler in the works, which is much more useful than this. And 
memory leaks can simply be investigated simply by debugging. I don't see how 
this plugin could help here. Anyway, we disabled the crash recovery already, so 
most memory leaks should be gone.


From: Development  on 
behalf of Konstantin Tokarev 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:42:55 PM
To: Ryein Goddard; Simon Hausmann
Cc: development@qt-project.org; qt-crea...@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator



22.02.2018, 16:39, "Ryein Goddard" :
> This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be 
> completely honest I think it is 100% useless.  If you don't know what people 
> are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with them.  
> You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to figure out 
> what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with.  Why not just 
> take a few surveys a year?

Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of crashes 
or memory leaking in clangbackend

>
> On 02/22/2018 08:26 AM, Simon Hausmann wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits 
>> into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it 
>> accessible to the community?
>>
>> (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified)
>>
>> Simon
>> 
>> From: Development  
>> on behalf of Tuukka Turunen 
>> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM
>> To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; development@qt-project.org
>> Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
>> plugin in Qt Creator
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
>> could be useful also for other applications.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>>  Tuukka
>>
>> From: Qt-creator  on 
>> behalf of Tino Pyssysalo 
>> Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
>> To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
>> Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt 
>> Creator
>>
>> Description:
>>
>> Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
>> improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.
>>
>> Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, 
>> will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.
>>
>> Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo
>>
>> Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Tino Pyssysalo
>>
>> Senior Manager
>>
>> The Qt Company
>>
>> Hämeenkatu 14 C 25
>>
>> 33100 Tampere, Finland
>>
>> tino.pyssys...@qt.io
>>
>> +358 40 8615475
>>
>> http://qt.io
>>
>> The future is Written with Qt
>>
>> ---
>>
>> ___ Qt-creator mailing list 
>> qt-crea...@qt-project.org 
>> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
> ,
>
> ___
> Qt-creator mailing list
> qt-crea...@qt-project.org
> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator


--
Regards,
Konstantin
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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Tuukka Turunen]

Hi Simon,

Is that an item to decide at repo creation time or something to address later 
during implementation / code review? For example consider requesting a repo for 
qt/qtcharts – should we have known what data users want to visualize with it 
before having a repository (or only during the implementation of the feature)?

That said, I do agree that we should discuss about the topic if we are to 
collect user analytics data – and to also learn what kind of data is valuable 
to collect (noting that there are strict rules for anything that can be 
considered personal data). My view is that creating the requested repository 
and developing the code in the open is very good for transparency and also 
provides good opportunities for discussion during the implementation.

Yours,

 Tuukka

From: Simon Hausmann 
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 15.26
To: Tuukka Turunen , Tino Pyssysalo 
, "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
, "development@qt-project.org" 

Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator


Hi,



Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits 
into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it 
accessible to the community?



(-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified)



Simon


From: Development  on 
behalf of Tuukka Turunen 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM
To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; development@qt-project.org
Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
plugin in Qt Creator




Hi,



+1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
could be useful also for other applications.



Yours,



 Tuukka



From: Qt-creator  on 
behalf of Tino Pyssysalo 
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator



Description:



Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.

Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will 
be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.



Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo



Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry





---

Tino Pyssysalo

Senior Manager



The Qt Company

Hämeenkatu 14 C 25

33100 Tampere, Finland

tino.pyssys...@qt.io

+358 40 8615475

http://qt.io



The future is Written with Qt

---




___
Development mailing list
Development@qt-project.org
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development

Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Konstantin Tokarev]

22.02.2018, 16:39, "Ryein Goddard" :
> This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be 
> completely honest I think it is 100% useless.  If you don't know what people 
> are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with them.  
> You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to figure out 
> what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with.  Why not just 
> take a few surveys a year?

Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of crashes 
or memory leaking in clangbackend

>
> On 02/22/2018 08:26 AM, Simon Hausmann wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits 
>> into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it 
>> accessible to the community?
>>
>> (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified)
>>
>> Simon
>> 
>> From: Development  
>> on behalf of Tuukka Turunen 
>> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM
>> To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-crea...@qt-project.org; development@qt-project.org
>> Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry 
>> plugin in Qt Creator
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
>> could be useful also for other applications.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>>  Tuukka
>>
>> From: Qt-creator  on 
>> behalf of Tino Pyssysalo 
>> Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
>> To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
>> Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt 
>> Creator
>>
>> Description:
>>
>> Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
>> improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.
>>
>> Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, 
>> will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.
>>
>> Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo
>>
>> Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Tino Pyssysalo
>>
>> Senior Manager
>>
>> The Qt Company
>>
>> Hämeenkatu 14 C 25
>>
>> 33100 Tampere, Finland
>>
>> tino.pyssys...@qt.io
>>
>> +358 40 8615475
>>
>> http://qt.io
>>
>> The future is Written with Qt
>>
>> ---
>>
>> ___ Qt-creator mailing list 
>> qt-crea...@qt-project.org 
>> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
> ,
>
> ___
> Qt-creator mailing list
> qt-crea...@qt-project.org
> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator


-- 
Regards,
Konstantin
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Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator

[Tuukka Turunen]

Hi,

+1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item 
could be useful also for other applications.

Yours,

 Tuukka

From: Qt-creator  on 
behalf of Tino Pyssysalo 
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04
To: "qt-crea...@qt-project.org" 
Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator


Description:



Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help 
improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools.

Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will 
be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user.



Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo



Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry



---
Tino Pyssysalo
Senior Manager

The Qt Company
Hämeenkatu 14 C 25
33100 Tampere, Finland
tino.pyssys...@qt.io
+358 40 8615475
http://qt.io

The future is Written with Qt
---


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Re: [Development] Prebuilt 32-bit versjon for MSVC 2017

[Tim Blechmann]

> Currently Qt ships with 32-bit binaries for MSVC 2015, but not for
> MSVC 2017. The Qt Company have received requests for adding prebuilt
> 32-bit binaries also for MSVC 2017. By adding more prebuilt binaries,
> we increase the complexity, and add to the overall maintenance of our
> QA system. Our preferred approach would be to add binaries for MSVC
> 2017 and remove the binaries for MSVC 2015, as the numbers of
> binaries in the build remains the same. It will still be possible to
> manually build Qt for MSVC 2015, in the same way as it is possible to
> manually build for MSVC 2017 today. Feedback and viewpoints are much
> appreciated and will enable us to make the best possible decision.

the ABI of msvc2015 and msvc2017 is the same. so unlike earlier msvc
releases, one can mix binaries from both compilers.

in theory. in practice there is a still unresolved compiler bug in
msvc2017 (we've experienced it only with static libs and debug builds,
but i'm not sure if it has any implication on the binaries you want to
release):

https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/content/problem/76198/vs-2017-compiler-creates-broken-debug-build-using.html

cheers,
tim

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