Re: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list of 20-year-old books

[Sze Howe Koh]

On 30 August 2015 at 16:02, Dmitry Volosnykh  wrote:
> By the way, what are those "newer ones"?

I don't have a specific book in mind, but I would encourage newcomers
to learn the high-level API introduced in C++11 (std::thread,
std::async, etc.) instead of the low-level, platform-specific API
currently recommended by the Qt docs (pthreads/Win32 threads). The
former is much cleaner and more portable (assuming the platform
toolchains are C++11 compliant). I'd only recommend books on
pthreads/Win32 threads to people who need/want in-depth details about
those APIs.


> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Sze Howe Koh 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/threads.html#recommended-reading points readers
>> to some books about multithreading. These books were published between
>> 1995 and 1997, and have been well and truly superseded by newer ones.
>>
>> Rather than update the list, I plan to remove it completely. I don't
>> think this list belongs in the Qt docs, just like how we don't
>> maintain a list of "learning C++" books. It's easy enough these days
>> to find reading material for these foundational topics.
>>
>> Any objections?

Regards,
Sze-Howe
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Re: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list of 20-year-old books

[Sze Howe Koh]

On 30 August 2015 at 16:32, Hausmann Simon
<simon.hausm...@theqtcompany.com> wrote:
> I think that there is a b‎ig difference between it being easy enough to find 
> reading material and us - the project - making specific recommendations for 
> material that we think is of particularly high quality and perhaps also 
> relevance. The latter adds real value to our documentation.
>
> I think that if there is evidence that the currently suggested material is 
> not suitable anymore, then it would be great to replace it with another 
> recommendation.

That's fair enough.

I think the recommendation has been "backwards" for a long time now.
It basically says, "Beginners should read these platform-specific
books on multithreading, before reading the Qt documentation on
multithreading". However, the Qt docs already explains the basics in a
way that doesn't assume prior knowledge.

If we're to replace the recommendation, I would (i) present it as
"further reading", not "recommended reading before starting", and (ii)
pick a book that showcases C++11 threads, not the low-level
platform-specific threads.

If someone has personally found a particular book very helpful in this
topic, I'd be happy to add it. Otherwise, I'll proceed as originally
planned. We have 3 votes for removal (including my own) and 2 votes
for replacement.


>   Original Message
> From: Sze Howe Koh
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 09:49
> To: development@qt-project.org
> Subject: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading 
> list of 20-year-old books
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/threads.html#recommended-reading points readers
> to some books about multithreading. These books were published between
> 1995 and 1997, and have been well and truly superseded by newer ones.
>
> Rather than update the list, I plan to remove it completely. I don't
> think this list belongs in the Qt docs, just like how we don't
> maintain a list of "learning C++" books. It's easy enough these days
> to find reading material for these foundational topics.
>
> Any objections?
>
>
> Regards,
> Sze-Howe
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Re: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list of 20-year-old books

[Olivier Goffart]

On Tuesday 1. September 2015 13:33:27 Adam Majer wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:18:59PM +0300, Berkay Elbir wrote:
> >Yeah, replacing would be better than just removing...

I think it's fine just removing this list.


> Almost every modern C++ (and other programming language) book deals
> with basics of threads and concurrency. Concurrent programming is
> standard for a decade now. C++ standard now has a notion of
> multithreads. In light of this, I believe a simple statement about
> getting a moden C++ book is enough.

+1

 
> If a link is desired, how about "C++ Concurrency in Action: Practical
> Multithreading" by Williams.
> 
>http://www.amazon.com/dp/1933988770
> 
> NOTE: I haven't read this book, but from TOC it seems to cover most
> important things about threads.

Going on amazon and search for "C++ Multithreading", and recommanding the 
books there without reading it, is not really meaningful. The documentation 
should only recommand books that someone has read and thinks is valuable. 
(unless it was a sponsor perhaps)

-- 
Olivier 

Woboq - Qt services and support - http://woboq.com - http://code.woboq.org
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Re: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list of 20-year-old books

[BRM]

Question: How does this affect the reading list for the Qt Certifications?
It's been a while since I looked at it, but are the two reading lists not the 
same?I'd probably suggest going more that direction - what's good for the 
technologies that Qt uses and how can one improve oneself to help in working on 
and with Qt.
$0.02
Ben



 On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 2:33 PM, Adam Majer  
wrote:
   

 On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:18:59PM +0300, Berkay Elbir wrote:
>    Yeah, replacing would be better than just removing...

Almost every modern C++ (and other programming language) book deals
with basics of threads and concurrency. Concurrent programming is
standard for a decade now. C++ standard now has a notion of
multithreads. In light of this, I believe a simple statement about
getting a moden C++ book is enough.

If a link is desired, how about "C++ Concurrency in Action: Practical
Multithreading" by Williams.

  http://www.amazon.com/dp/1933988770

NOTE: I haven't read this book, but from TOC it seems to cover most
important things about threads.

- Adam


-- 
Adam Majer
ad...@zombino.com
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Re: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list of 20-year-old books

[Adam Majer]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:18:59PM +0300, Berkay Elbir wrote:
>Yeah, replacing would be better than just removing...

Almost every modern C++ (and other programming language) book deals
with basics of threads and concurrency. Concurrent programming is
standard for a decade now. C++ standard now has a notion of
multithreads. In light of this, I believe a simple statement about
getting a moden C++ book is enough.

If a link is desired, how about "C++ Concurrency in Action: Practical
Multithreading" by Williams.

   http://www.amazon.com/dp/1933988770

NOTE: I haven't read this book, but from TOC it seems to cover most
important things about threads.

- Adam


-- 
Adam Majer
ad...@zombino.com
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Re: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list of 20-year-old books

[Berkay Elbir]

Yeah, replacing would be better than just removing...

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Hausmann Simon <
simon.hausm...@theqtcompany.com> wrote:

> I think that there is a b‎ig difference between it being easy enough to
> find reading material and us - the project - making specific
> recommendations for material that we think is of particularly high quality
> and perhaps also relevance. The latter adds real value to our documentation.
>
> I think that if there is evidence that the currently suggested material is
> not suitable anymore, then it would be great to replace it with another
> recommendation.
>
> Simon
>
>   Original Message
> From: Sze Howe Koh
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 09:49
> To: development@qt-project.org
> Subject: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading
> list of 20-year-old books
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/threads.html#recommended-reading points readers
> to some books about multithreading. These books were published between
> 1995 and 1997, and have been well and truly superseded by newer ones.
>
> Rather than update the list, I plan to remove it completely. I don't
> think this list belongs in the Qt docs, just like how we don't
> maintain a list of "learning C++" books. It's easy enough these days
> to find reading material for these foundational topics.
>
> Any objections?
>
>
> Regards,
> Sze-Howe
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>
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[Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list of 20-year-old books

[Sze Howe Koh]

Hi all,

http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/threads.html#recommended-reading points readers
to some books about multithreading. These books were published between
1995 and 1997, and have been well and truly superseded by newer ones.

Rather than update the list, I plan to remove it completely. I don't
think this list belongs in the Qt docs, just like how we don't
maintain a list of learning C++ books. It's easy enough these days
to find reading material for these foundational topics.

Any objections?


Regards,
Sze-Howe
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Re: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list of 20-year-old books

[Hausmann Simon]

I think that there is a b‎ig difference between it being easy enough to find 
reading material and us - the project - making specific recommendations for 
material that we think is of particularly high quality and perhaps also 
relevance. The latter adds real value to our documentation.

I think that if there is evidence that the currently suggested material is not 
suitable anymore, then it would be great to replace it with another 
recommendation.

Simon

  Original Message
From: Sze Howe Koh
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 09:49
To: development@qt-project.org
Subject: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list 
of 20-year-old books


Hi all,

http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/threads.html#recommended-reading points readers
to some books about multithreading. These books were published between
1995 and 1997, and have been well and truly superseded by newer ones.

Rather than update the list, I plan to remove it completely. I don't
think this list belongs in the Qt docs, just like how we don't
maintain a list of learning C++ books. It's easy enough these days
to find reading material for these foundational topics.

Any objections?


Regards,
Sze-Howe
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Re: [Development] Documentation proposal: Remove recommended reading list of 20-year-old books

[Jake Petroules]

 On Aug 30, 2015, at 12:48 AM, Sze Howe Koh szehowe@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/threads.html#recommended-reading points readers
 to some books about multithreading. These books were published between
 1995 and 1997, and have been well and truly superseded by newer ones.
 
 Rather than update the list, I plan to remove it completely. I don't
 think this list belongs in the Qt docs, just like how we don't
 maintain a list of learning C++ books. It's easy enough these days
 to find reading material for these foundational topics.

+1, definitely agree with the general principle.

 
 Any objections?
 
 
 Regards,
 Sze-Howe
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