Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
On 1/19/12 9:58 PM, ext Thiago Macieira thiago.macie...@intel.com wrote: On Thursday, 19 de January de 2012 16.49.20, Thiago Macieira wrote: So Digia is operating under special conditions right now, due to the lack of Qt4 in Gerrit. Once it stabilises, I'd rather not see Digia release a commercial version with a version number that the official Qt doesn't have yet. That might imply they need a second version number. E.g.: Qt Commercial 4.7.5 update 1 which indicates it's the Qt Commercial vendor branch, based on the official Qt 4.7.5, but it's an update to something previously released. By the way, considering what Ossi said in the other email (4.7 is closed as far as the qt project is concerned [...] [because] fixes are not being applied to 4.7 first), the Qt project needs to make a decision: - reopen the 4.7 branch and work on it, everyone, when a fix from someone (like Digia) turns up - tell Digia to stop increasing the version number - or turn over the maintenance of the 4.7 branch to Digia, including the ability to make releases My personal preference, seeing how busy everyone is with 5.0 alone, not to mention 4.8, is the third option. Turning over maintenance does not mean anything goes, but it means Digia engineers and the rest of the community work on the 4.7 branch inside the Qt project. Commits should still be reviewed and a Qt project release should still happen. I'm sure there are Linux distribution packagers who can help in the release testing for their own maintenance updates. I propose we nominate a release maintainer/manager, who is responsible for setting the priorities for that release. +1 from me. Option 3 is certainly the best option. As we see Digia still has an interest in Qt 4.7, but I haven't seen something coming from other sides, so Digia finding a release manager and maintainer for the branch and then working inside qt-project.org on it is probably the best solution. The same might (or might not) apply to 4.8 once we are a bit further with Qt 5.0. Cheers, Lars ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 06:58:40PM -0200, ext Thiago Macieira wrote: On Thursday, 19 de January de 2012 16.49.20, Thiago Macieira wrote: So Digia is operating under special conditions right now, due to the lack of Qt4 in Gerrit. Once it stabilises, I'd rather not see Digia release a commercial version with a version number that the official Qt doesn't have yet. That might imply they need a second version number. E.g.: Qt Commercial 4.7.5 update 1 which indicates it's the Qt Commercial vendor branch, based on the official Qt 4.7.5, but it's an update to something previously released. By the way, considering what Ossi said in the other email (4.7 is closed as far as the qt project is concerned [...] [because] fixes are not being applied to 4.7 first), the Qt project needs to make a decision: - reopen the 4.7 branch and work on it, everyone, when a fix from someone (like Digia) turns up - tell Digia to stop increasing the version number - or turn over the maintenance of the 4.7 branch to Digia, including the ability to make releases My personal preference, seeing how busy everyone is with 5.0 alone, not to mention 4.8, is the third option. Turning over maintenance does not mean anything goes, but it means Digia engineers and the rest of the community work on the 4.7 branch inside the Qt project. Commits should still be reviewed and a Qt project release should still happen. I'm sure there are Linux distribution packagers who can help in the release testing for their own maintenance updates. I propose we nominate a release maintainer/manager, who is responsible for setting the priorities for that release. this doesn't address several issues i've already raised: - who's going to review stuff? we already *know* that branch maintainers cannot do the job properly. it must be the domain experts, but your proposal is explicitly about freeing them from this duty. so what about quality criteria (and the linked trademark question)? - re-activating the branch would have some ugly implications on git: the branch is cherry-picked (both ways, in fact). we can either merge it back and get all those duplicated commits, or we can leave it unmerged and thus lose the tags on it. the latter is the current state, and is way easier to explain in the context of it being a vendor branch, than if the branch and tags are retroactively promoted to official status. ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 05:21:48PM +0100, ext Daniel Molkentin wrote: On 1/19/2012 4:46 PM, ext Turunen Tuukka wrote: In case there is still interest towards 4.7 in the community, we are happy to make the source code available. What way would you prefer? We can, for example, make this available in gitorious and send the link to the mailing list. IMHO: Push the changes through Gerrit, now that Qt 4 has been imported. Does anyone see a problem to force-push those changes? Once they are pushed, set a 4.7.5 tag. i made an attempt to give the digia group on gerrit the right to create the branch 4.7-digia and the (annotated) tag 4.7.5-digia. unless i botched it, you guys should be able to push your stuff there directly. catch me on irc if something doesn't work. regards ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Oswald Buddenhagen oswald.buddenha...@nokia.com wrote: i made an attempt to give the digia group on gerrit the right to create the branch 4.7-digia why not just put it in 4.7, so they're one and the same, and nobody else needs to get confused about where to send things if they want to contribute to 4.7? after all, i don't see 5.0 tagged as master-nokia, despite the fact that they're doing (most of) the work - why does the origin of it matter? ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 08:24:22PM +0200, ext Robin Burchell wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Oswald Buddenhagen oswald.buddenha...@nokia.com wrote: i made an attempt to give the digia group on gerrit the right to create the branch 4.7-digia why not just put it in 4.7, so they're one and the same, because they *aren't* the same. the digia patches are not community-approved by the respective domain experts. the qt project cannot simply accept this, be if for trademark reasons. ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
On Thursday, 19 de January de 2012 19.32.23, Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 08:24:22PM +0200, ext Robin Burchell wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Oswald Buddenhagen oswald.buddenha...@nokia.com wrote: i made an attempt to give the digia group on gerrit the right to create the branch 4.7-digia why not just put it in 4.7, so they're one and the same, because they *aren't* the same. the digia patches are not community-approved by the respective domain experts. the qt project cannot simply accept this, be if for trademark reasons. Remember that the Qt community is the only one allowed to release official versions of Qt and set the version number. So Digia is operating under special conditions right now, due to the lack of Qt4 in Gerrit. Once it stabilises, I'd rather not see Digia release a commercial version with a version number that the official Qt doesn't have yet. That might imply they need a second version number. E.g.: Qt Commercial 4.7.5 update 1 which indicates it's the Qt Commercial vendor branch, based on the official Qt 4.7.5, but it's an update to something previously released. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center Intel Sweden AB - Registration Number: 556189-6027 Knarrarnäsgatan 15, 164 40 Kista, Stockholm, Sweden signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
On 19/01/2012 12:55, ext Robin Burchell wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Oswald Buddenhagen oswald.buddenha...@nokia.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 08:24:22PM +0200, ext Robin Burchell wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Oswald Buddenhagenoswald.buddenha...@nokia.com wrote: i made an attempt to give the digia group on gerrit the right to create the branch 4.7-digia why not just put it in 4.7, so they're one and the same, because they *aren't* the same. the digia patches are not community-approved by the respective domain experts. the qt project cannot simply accept this, be if for trademark reasons. yup, and while that's a bad situation, if you leave them in a branch instead of (somehow) encouraging them to merge backwards, you're only going to encourage that split to stay that way. people (including distros) will have no choice but to use the digia version. it's not helping. They can be pushed to a 4.7-digia branch, then upon review, be cherry-picked into the 4.7 (MCL) branch. New releases should be forged on the 4.7 MCL with patches hopefully accepted directly into the 4.7 branch before the actual release. -- .marius ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 08:55:34PM +0200, ext Robin Burchell wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Oswald Buddenhagen oswald.buddenha...@nokia.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 08:24:22PM +0200, ext Robin Burchell wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Oswald Buddenhagen oswald.buddenha...@nokia.com wrote: i made an attempt to give the digia group on gerrit the right to create the branch 4.7-digia why not just put it in 4.7, so they're one and the same, because they *aren't* the same. the digia patches are not community-approved by the respective domain experts. the qt project cannot simply accept this, be if for trademark reasons. yup, and while that's a bad situation, if you leave them in a branch instead of (somehow) encouraging them to merge backwards, you're only going to encourage that split to stay that way. people (including distros) will have no choice but to use the digia version. it's not helping. the thing is that 4.7 is closed as far as the qt project is concerned. we have cemented this decision (made by qt nokia RM) by creating facts - fixes are not being applied to 4.7 first, and given the strong forward-merge-only preference, this cannot be revised without creating ugliness. fwiw, we'll probably need to re-define what the criteria for bugfix branches are if we don't want digia to have secondary branches all the time. P0 and P1 bugs only is simply no sane submit policy as far as anyone actually *using* our stuff is concerned. our pre-existing downstreams (i.e., linux distributors, but also maemo and symbian) have shown this rather conclusively. ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
the thing is that 4.7 is closed as far as the qt project is concerned. we have cemented this decision (made by qt nokia RM) by creating facts - fixes are not being applied to 4.7 first, and given the strong forward-merge-only preference, this cannot be revised without creating ugliness. Still, the patches are there, and they improve Qt. As I see it, there are different set of fixes: - Backports from Qt 4.8: They can be applied after review. I don't see any problems there - Fixes that only apply to Qt 4.7: Same here, they can be applied just like that - Fixes that have only been applies to the 4.7 release for no good reason: I haven't checked if those exists, and they would not make anyone's live easier (including Digia's). They might have happened because they also exist in Qt 4.8 first (in a Digia-internal repo) and see the light of the public for the first time in the 4.7 release. in that case, it's Digia's duty (and self-interest), to apply the patch against both branches in Gerrit). fwiw, we'll probably need to re-define what the criteria for bugfix branches are if we don't want digia to have secondary branches all the time. P0 and P1 bugs only is simply no sane submit policy as far as anyone actually *using* our stuff is concerned. our pre-existing downstreams (i.e., linux distributors, but also maemo and symbian) have shown this rather conclusively. IIRC, only bugfixes that are safe to apply was the policy, not only P0 and P1. There can be perfectly annoying P3's that can be easy to fix. In an ideal world, regression tests would be the benchmark, but that doesn't work. Anyway, patches that are dangerous or even add features can still be in Qt git. If Digia wants to provide them publicly, they should be in a special branch (either one branch per feature or in one vendor-branch). The same goes for other contributing individuals/companies. The Kernel shows rather well that this can help more than it hurts. Disk space is cheap, and we have a clear indication of what's the authoritative upstream branch. Cheers, Daniel ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
On Jan 19, 2012, at 21:58 , ext Thiago Macieira wrote: By the way, considering what Ossi said in the other email (4.7 is closed as far as the qt project is concerned [...] [because] fixes are not being applied to 4.7 first), the Qt project needs to make a decision: - reopen the 4.7 branch and work on it, everyone, when a fix from someone (like Digia) turns up - tell Digia to stop increasing the version number - or turn over the maintenance of the 4.7 branch to Digia, including the ability to make releases My personal preference, seeing how busy everyone is with 5.0 alone, not to mention 4.8, is the third option. Turning over maintenance does not mean anything goes, but it means Digia engineers and the rest of the community work on the 4.7 branch inside the Qt project. Commits should still be reviewed and a Qt project release should still happen. I'm sure there are Linux distribution packagers who can help in the release testing for their own maintenance updates. I propose we nominate a release maintainer/manager, who is responsible for setting the priorities for that release. +1 I would say. Tuukka, do you agree? If so, can you name one or more maintainers inside Digia? Cheers, Daniel ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt Commercial 4.7.5 is out - how shall we contribute is the best?
Sorry for top posting... Yes, we are happy to maintain the 4.7 branch, thoug we are not planning more releases to it unless something comes up. Let's see where the decision settles, after which we do the needed actions, and see who from Digia is the best one for this. Yours, Tuukka daniel.molken...@nokia.com kirjoitti 19.1.2012 23:13: On Jan 19, 2012, at 21:58 , ext Thiago Macieira wrote: By the way, considering what Ossi said in the other email (4.7 is closed as far as the qt project is concerned [...] [because] fixes are not being applied to 4.7 first), the Qt project needs to make a decision: - reopen the 4.7 branch and work on it, everyone, when a fix from someone (like Digia) turns up - tell Digia to stop increasing the version number - or turn over the maintenance of the 4.7 branch to Digia, including the ability to make releases My personal preference, seeing how busy everyone is with 5.0 alone, not to mention 4.8, is the third option. Turning over maintenance does not mean anything goes, but it means Digia engineers and the rest of the community work on the 4.7 branch inside the Qt project. Commits should still be reviewed and a Qt project release should still happen. I'm sure there are Linux distribution packagers who can help in the release testing for their own maintenance updates. I propose we nominate a release maintainer/manager, who is responsible for setting the priorities for that release. +1 I would say. Tuukka, do you agree? If so, can you name one or more maintainers inside Digia? Cheers, Daniel ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
