RE: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
Aside from postgresql also give borland interbase 6 some thought. It seemed to be stable enough has a nice feature set and includes a number of frontend apps Its also included with cobalt cubes.. -Original Message- From: Aaron Held [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: dinsdag 11 september 2001 4:53 To: Charlie Brady Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon The postGres comments are largely for the sake of levity, just to illustrate the point. I know I can incorperate it and I've been trying to work out the backup procedure as well. I like mySQL and use it for many other project, just not this one. And I have my own webmail for this app as well. BUT if I pull out mySQL how many other third party apps will I break? -Aaron - Original Message - From: Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Aaron Held [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Aaron Held wrote: I like the idea of aXon and what its goals are, a cutting edge distro with all the packages I need at the expense of the large userbase support and possible commercial help. Maybe we can have some type of compromise, use aXon as a resource for a set of patches and how-tos to push your vanella eSmith box to the edge (and replace MySQL with PostGres should be the top priority). The more you customize the more you lose the benefits of the main project. Mitel (previously e-smith) is, and has always been, happy to host any HOWTOs or patches or contributed packages. That hasn't and won't change. Moreover, with V5.0 the manager includes an interface which allows collections of add-on packages to be installed and configured directly from the manager. That way you will be able to customise without losing the benefits of the mail project. [We are unlikely to replace MySQL with PostgreSQL, but are quite likely to offer it as an additional choice. MySQL was provided to store user preferences for webmail - an application for which it remains an ideal choice. There are certainly circumstances where PostgreSQL is a more appropriate choice, and we have no problem at all with anyone choosing PostgreSQL as their DB of choice. We'd be delighted to have that as a contrib RPM!] Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Barrett Gay wrote: I have been using E-Smith for quite some time now and have always thought it to be a very good product. I'm glad that you like it. Recently the demand for a 2.4 kernel and a journaling filesystem has lead to the creation of a new project know as aXon. Forking the project seems to be rather an extreme step to take if all you want that's different is a 2.4 kernel and a journaling filesystem. aXon is a distribution based off of E-smith that features a 2.4.8 kernel with SGI XFS and FreeSwan IPSEC VPN support. aXon is currently under heavy development and we need support. Indeed, you'll be very busy. If you would like to a contribute or make a suggestion, please visit http://www.axonlinux.org. We are currently trying to organize a developer list and get to work. If you are interested in preventing divergence of your project and ours, then it might be a good idea for all developers to stay here on this list. We should be releasing a preview version this week. I'll be very interested to take a look. And I wish you luck. Have you read Homesteading the Noosphere, by Eric Raymond? I'd recommend that you do (although hearing Eric give the talk in person is an even better idea): http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homesteading/ -- Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
I believe some healthy open-source competition will benefit everyone. As a member of the development community I think I can make room to offer my support to both Mitel and aXon. I applaud the bold move the team behind aXon has taken and wish aXon Linux all the best! Regards, -- Darrell May DMC NETSOURCED.COM http://netsourced.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 03:15:13PM -0400, Barrett Gay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] If you would like to a contribute or make a suggestion, please visit http://www.axonlinux.org. We are currently trying to organize a developer list and get to work. We should be releasing a preview version this week. [...] As Charlie has said, we would strongly prefer to avoid both a project fork and splitting the devinfo list. I'm somewhat surprised that you didn't raise the prospect of a fork with us before deciding on that path. I think it would be a good idea for us to discuss this off-list to see how we can work together to avoid a fork. We are naturally interested in the 2.4 kernel and journalling filesystems, though they are not in the 5.0 release. FreeS/WAN support is already in 5.0 Thanks, Gordon -- Gordon Rowell[EMAIL PROTECTED] VP Engineering Network Server Solutions Group http://www.e-smith.com Mitel Networks Corporation http://www.mitel.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
Folks, On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:30:04 +1000 Gordon Rowell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I sincerely wish the aXon team all the best and am eager to work with them for the benefit of all. However, building, supporting and maintaining a distribution is a distinctly non-trivial task. I feel we would all be better served by thinking about how we could maintain two streams - one with 2.2.19+ext2 and another with 2.4+JFS/XFS/ext3 I could understand a fork if the e-smith team had been unresponsive or if the e-smith server had gone in a direction that was unacceptable to a significant part of the community. But it seems to me that neither is the case here - the e-smith team are being justifiably conservative given their primary constituency (i.e. SME's without high level/dedicated sysdmin resources). And they have indicated that 2.4 plus journalled file systems will happen. Surely it would make better sense, as Gordon has suggested, to maintain two streams? Or are there other (non-technical) issues that I'm not aware of? Just my 2c worth ... Steve -- Steve Landers Scripting Design Studio Digital Smarties [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perth, Western Australia www.digital-smarties.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
This cracks me up, how quickly they turn hu? As a project manager myself, who also happens to know about development forks and has experienced it himself, it amazes me how people get as soon as someone begins a fork. 1. If you decide to fork from an existing project, the very first thing a responsible developer should do is contact that project and inform them. As both Gordon and Charlie have alluded to, perhaps together is better than apart. And when I talk about informing them I don't mean to say Hey you asshole, we can code better and will prove it, but to say What you have done is wonderful, and we think we could contribute. That is always a nice place to start, then you see where it takes you from there. 2. There are always those who are quick to jump on the fork band wagon, they are the same people who will start flaming the original application on all the boards, telling the world of how their new choice is so much better. A good example of this is PHP-Nuke and Post -Nuke. 3. Inevitably, forks damage the community...period. 4. Why Off-List? It is a development issue isn't it? Are you joking? It is not a development issue, it is a business issue. If it were a development issue it would be on the aXon boards or list, not e-smith. This is a private matter and should be handled in private. The result should be public. I don't know the guys from aXon, they may be great people, but they have made some elementary mistakes, not the least of which is posting on the e-smith boardsvery bad taste. You never try to steal away the competition's Dev people of users, if you product is good, they will come to you. IMHO Garret Acott http://myphpnuke.com - Original Message - From: Jon Pamment [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gordon Rowell' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Barrett Gay' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:11 PM Subject: RE: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon Why Off-List? It is a development issue isn't it? I think it would be a good idea for us to discuss this off-list to see how we can work together to avoid a fork. Sincerely Jon Pamment -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.277 / Virus Database: 146 - Release Date: 9/5/2001 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
FreeS/WAN support is already in 5.0 But only with ServiceLink, right? Or did I misunderstand? --Robin -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
I have not been active on list for a while but I have to comment now. Mainly because I already did. I have been working with the open source eSmith for about a year, mainly as a Internet Appliance Product Manager (but I could not get the product completed before we field chapter 11) and more recently as an IT consultant. On the one hand I recently took a contracting position where I am integrating a custom app into eSmith to sell as an appliance. Its a good body of work and for the most part it does exactly what I need. There are some application and architecture choices made that will make my life more difficult (like using MySQL when MY app needs postGres). So I am interested to see the approx aXon will take. Then I could just take the Open Source download, make my changes and live royalty free. On the other hand, I would have to monitor all the security alerts, update all my clients (I just got Caldera Volution working perfectly when I learned about the eSmith NOC!), and continually test and review any new/improved components going into the box. Whenever I change a main component I lose a portion of the developer community as a support base as well as the possibility of using eSmith as a technical resource. I welcomed aXon as another resource of developers getting into the internals of the system and working out ways to change it. I also need Java, which they provide. I thought about what eSmith actually provides. In my opinion what I value from eSmith is: 1) A solid selection of core packages 2) A client user interface ( Simple, with the choices they need to make, not the ones they need to pay me to make) 3) A power user - Consultant interface (IT Consulting tip #258: You can always charge more when you go to the command line) 4) A big happy user community 5) A big happy well funded corperate entity to partner with when I land the 'big' account 6) A NOC that can monitor my client boxes and proactivly fix and monitor them And most importantly 7) A system pre-configured in line with commonly accepted best practices, what I used to spend a considerable amount of time doing. (Firewall rules, LDAP admin, qmail replacement, qmail web stats, starter website...) I like the idea of aXon and what its goals are, a cutting edge distro with all the packages I need at the expense of the large userbase support and possible commercial help. Maybe we can have some type of compromise, use aXon as a resource for a set of patches and how-tos to push your vanella eSmith box to the edge (and replace MySQL with PostGres should be the top priority). The more you customize the more you lose the benefits of the main project. I am very interested to see thier new management interface, the current one makes my boxes seem slow to the customers. And for the record, my email was sent originally off-list, I did not intend to call Barret 'rude' in public forum. One of the reasons I like Open source development is becuase it breeds both technical and business innovation, based on the best product and service, rather then the best ad campaign (usually). So I appologize for that. I will download and play with aXon, possibly contribute and use it, but as soon as one of my customers decides to pay me, I'll sign up as an eSmith reseller. Interesting enough my app is based in Enhydra (www.enhydra.org), an open source java app server. They just pulled the Open Source version of thier Enterprise version. My app is based on thier 'classic' version - which remains open, but I was just in the initial stages of porting it to the Enterprise version. So now I have to go discuss licensing/forking/ and community on that list also. The things I go throught for a high quality free platform. Thanks, -Aaron Held [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.metrony.com === As Isaac Newton would say now: If I see further than others, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants too dumb to patent their discoveries. (Gregory Palast, http://www.observer.co.uk/ ) - Original Message - From: Gordon Rowell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jon Pamment [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Barrett Gay' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 11:11:38AM +1000, Jon Pamment [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why Off-List? It is a development issue isn't it? I'm more than happy to discuss it on-list, but I felt it worthwhile to discuss this in detail with the aXon team. As I said, I was surprised that there was no contact before the announcement of the fork. I sincerely wish the aXon team all the best and am eager to work with them for the benefit of all. However, building, supporting and maintaining a distribution is a distinctly non-trivial task. I feel we would all be better served by thinking about how we could maintain two streams
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Aaron Held wrote: I like the idea of aXon and what its goals are, a cutting edge distro with all the packages I need at the expense of the large userbase support and possible commercial help. Maybe we can have some type of compromise, use aXon as a resource for a set of patches and how-tos to push your vanella eSmith box to the edge (and replace MySQL with PostGres should be the top priority). The more you customize the more you lose the benefits of the main project. Mitel (previously e-smith) is, and has always been, happy to host any HOWTOs or patches or contributed packages. That hasn't and won't change. Moreover, with V5.0 the manager includes an interface which allows collections of add-on packages to be installed and configured directly from the manager. That way you will be able to customise without losing the benefits of the mail project. [We are unlikely to replace MySQL with PostgreSQL, but are quite likely to offer it as an additional choice. MySQL was provided to store user preferences for webmail - an application for which it remains an ideal choice. There are certainly circumstances where PostgreSQL is a more appropriate choice, and we have no problem at all with anyone choosing PostgreSQL as their DB of choice. We'd be delighted to have that as a contrib RPM!] Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
The postGres comments are largely for the sake of levity, just to illustrate the point. I know I can incorperate it and I've been trying to work out the backup procedure as well. I like mySQL and use it for many other project, just not this one. And I have my own webmail for this app as well. BUT if I pull out mySQL how many other third party apps will I break? -Aaron - Original Message - From: Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Aaron Held [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Aaron Held wrote: I like the idea of aXon and what its goals are, a cutting edge distro with all the packages I need at the expense of the large userbase support and possible commercial help. Maybe we can have some type of compromise, use aXon as a resource for a set of patches and how-tos to push your vanella eSmith box to the edge (and replace MySQL with PostGres should be the top priority). The more you customize the more you lose the benefits of the main project. Mitel (previously e-smith) is, and has always been, happy to host any HOWTOs or patches or contributed packages. That hasn't and won't change. Moreover, with V5.0 the manager includes an interface which allows collections of add-on packages to be installed and configured directly from the manager. That way you will be able to customise without losing the benefits of the mail project. [We are unlikely to replace MySQL with PostgreSQL, but are quite likely to offer it as an additional choice. MySQL was provided to store user preferences for webmail - an application for which it remains an ideal choice. There are certainly circumstances where PostgreSQL is a more appropriate choice, and we have no problem at all with anyone choosing PostgreSQL as their DB of choice. We'd be delighted to have that as a contrib RPM!] Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 07:28:04PM -0700, Robin Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FreeS/WAN support is already in 5.0 But only with ServiceLink, right? Or did I misunderstand? The FreeS/WAN modules and associated programs are included and installed automatically. Configuration of FreeS/WAN is provided by the ServiceLink VPN service if you choose to purchase this. Thanks, Gordon -- Gordon Rowell[EMAIL PROTECTED] VP Engineering Network Server Solutions Group http://www.e-smith.com Mitel Networks Corporation http://www.mitel.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
Agreed. There has been a lot of development in E-Smith and forking was bound to happen eventually. Trev. -Original Message- From: Darrell May [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 6:33 PM To: Barrett Gay; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon I believe some healthy open-source competition will benefit everyone. As a member of the development community I think I can make room to offer my support to both Mitel and aXon. I applaud the bold move the team behind aXon has taken and wish aXon Linux all the best! Regards, -- Darrell May DMC NETSOURCED.COM http://netsourced.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
Garret, No, I wasn't joking, I see no harm in an open discussion about the merits for or against of a fork and/or the future direction of development of e-smith. I believe they are development issues. As it happens, on the face of it, without fully exploring the issues, I don't think a fork is a good idea either. (The term divide and concur comes to mind, not to mention the wasted energy of duplication) A separate issue but related AFAIC: I'm not so thrilled with the direction Mitel/e-smith took recently re ipsec, and I might not be the only one. I feel that as a small business (less than 5 ppl) I'm left out of the current advances and perhaps not in the Mitel picture of the future. The asking price is simply way to high. (btw my e-smith server is paid up!, I'm not a free loader) A discussion in the open is almost certainly going to involve the whys and I won't be surprised if some of it relates to the cost of participation in the new ServiceLink to obtain ipsec. Should I be correct in my assumption then Mitel may consider an alternative approach to the current offerings that would allow business such as mine to use the service or part there of and contribute financially. Therefore I put it to you that it may be in the best interests of all of us, end users, developers, Mitel and partners that a discussion such as this in the open could be beneficial to all concerned. I am interested in others opinions but I will not respond to flames ! Jon 4. Why Off-List? It is a development issue isn't it? Are you joking? It is not a development issue, it is a business issue. If it were a development issue it would be on the aXon boards or list, not e-smith. This is a private matter and should be handled in private. The result should be public. -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
I agree to disagree :-) Although I see the sense in much of what you say, and yes even agree with much of it, I feel that a discussion of a fork should ALWAYS begin in private. I have seen lack of communication tear apart great projects and even greater communities. It is hard to carry on a true and thoughtful discussion in public, with others taking turns at chiming whenever they see an opening. Garret - Original Message - From: Jon Pamment [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'little bark BIG BYTE' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Gordon Rowell' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Barrett Gay' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:18 PM Subject: RE: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon Garret, No, I wasn't joking, I see no harm in an open discussion about the merits for or against of a fork and/or the future direction of development of e-smith. I believe they are development issues. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.277 / Virus Database: 146 - Release Date: 9/5/2001 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
[e-smith-devinfo] Business issues and FreeS/WAN (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon)
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 01:18:01PM +1000, Jon Pamment [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] A separate issue but related AFAIC: I'm not so thrilled with the direction Mitel/e-smith took recently re ipsec, and I might not be the only one. We are shipping 5.0 with a FreeS/WAN (ipsec) enabled kernel and all associated tools. Building a network of machines with FreeS/WAN requires significant configuration and we have not included our work in that area in the general distribution. We have built a service around simplified configuration of multiple servers so that they can easily join and leave IPSEC VPNs. This is the ServiceLink VPN service, and we charge for that. We believe that the combination of ServiceLink services provide the features most requested by small businesses, with VPN being one of those. The public release of 5.0 is identical to the 5.0+ServiceLink release except that it does not contain any ServiceLink code. I feel that as a small business (less than 5 ppl) I'm left out of the current advances and perhaps not in the Mitel picture of the future. The asking price is simply way to high. (btw my e-smith server is paid up!, I'm not a free loader) Our picture of the future is most definitely aimed at businesses such as yours (especially those such as yourself who register and pay for our time). However, I'd like to ask that we keep all pricing/business issues off the devinfo list. We have all sorts of people on the devinfo list, and one problem we have is that some people are using it as a free support service. You may have noticed that we (e-smith) tend not to answer support type questions on devinfo, for this very reason. This is a development list and should be focused on development, not business issues or technical support. A discussion in the open is almost certainly going to involve the whys and I won't be surprised if some of it relates to the cost of participation in the new ServiceLink to obtain ipsec. I don't believe the cost of our services is a topic for the devinfo list. An ipsec enabled kernel is standard in 5.0 and we provide an optional service to simplify its configuration. Should I be correct in my assumption then Mitel may consider an alternative approach to the current offerings that would allow business such as mine to use the service or part there of and contribute financially. This is best raised directly with our Authorized Partners as we discuss these issues with them. Therefore I put it to you that it may be in the best interests of all of us, end users, developers, Mitel and partners that a discussion such as this in the open could be beneficial to all concerned. I disagree, as this is a development list. As such, its focus should be on development. I am interested in others opinions but I will not respond to flames ! Gordon -- Gordon Rowell[EMAIL PROTECTED] VP Engineering Network Server Solutions Group http://www.e-smith.com Mitel Networks Corporation http://www.mitel.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 09:05:13PM -0600, Trevor Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed. There has been a lot of development in E-Smith and forking was bound to happen eventually. We are certainly looking forward to the public release of the source code for your server. Thanks, Gordon -- Gordon Rowell[EMAIL PROTECTED] VP Engineering Network Server Solutions Group http://www.e-smith.com Mitel Networks Corporation http://www.mitel.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] Business issues and FreeS/WAN (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon)
Gordon Rowell [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: We are shipping 5.0 with a FreeS/WAN (ipsec) enabled kernel and all associated tools. Building a network of machines with FreeS/WAN requires significant configuration and we have not included our work in that area in the general distribution. Does anyone know if the contributed FreeS/WAN e-smith manager panel add- on (e-smith-ipsec-0.4-7.noarch.rpm) works with the 5.0 general distribution? Regards, -- Darrell May DMC NETSOURCED.COM http://netsourced.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
Squidguard for 4.1.2 is available freely to YOUR customers... updated vacation-how-to was published for the benefit of YOUR customers... what else do you want from me, Gordon? I try to help other people on the devlist as best as I can. I'm not the best programmer but I do my best. That's my contribution. Sorry if it's not enough for you guys at Mitel. :-( Trev. -Original Message- From: Gordon Rowell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 11:03 PM To: Trevor Ouellette Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 09:05:13PM -0600, Trevor Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed. There has been a lot of development in E-Smith and forking was bound to happen eventually. We are certainly looking forward to the public release of the source code for your server. Thanks, Gordon -- Gordon Rowell[EMAIL PROTECTED] VP Engineering Network Server Solutions Group http://www.e-smith.com Mitel Networks Corporation http://www.mitel.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] Business issues and FreeS/WAN (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon)
suppose a lot of the angst about IPSEC and FreeS/WAN will be answered when we finally get to SEE the new SME Server It looks like a LOT of people on this list are sweating on it's release (me too) ;-) Why don't we calm down until we see what the Mitel guys have got for us ... Mitel Guys -- the sooner you release the better IMHO. Hugh Fox Sales Director www.drcauto.com drcauto now hosts support newsgroups: news://news.drcauto.com/drcauto.lt_toolkit news://news.drcauto.com/drcauto.smart_architect news://news.drcauto.com/drcauto.accurender_lt The same groups are accessible via your browser, go to: http://discussion.drcauto.com - Original Message - From: Darrell May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gordon Rowell [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jon Pamment [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [e-smith-devinfo] Business issues and FreeS/WAN (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon) Gordon Rowell [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: We are shipping 5.0 with a FreeS/WAN (ipsec) enabled kernel and all associated tools. Building a network of machines with FreeS/WAN requires significant configuration and we have not included our work in that area in the general distribution. Does anyone know if the contributed FreeS/WAN e-smith manager panel add- on (e-smith-ipsec-0.4-7.noarch.rpm) works with the 5.0 general distribution? Regards, -- Darrell May DMC NETSOURCED.COM http://netsourced.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 11:29:14PM -0600, Trevor Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Squidguard for 4.1.2 is available freely to YOUR customers... updated vacation-how-to was published for the benefit of YOUR customers... what else do you want from me, Gordon? I try to help other people on the devlist as best as I can. I'm not the best programmer but I do my best. That's my contribution. We greatly appreciate these contributions. Sorry if it's not enough for you guys at Mitel. :-( If your PowerElf server is not derived from e-smith, I formally and publicly apologise. If it is, we are most definitely interested in seeing the public release of the code. Thanks, Gordon -- Gordon Rowell[EMAIL PROTECTED] VP Engineering Network Server Solutions Group http://www.e-smith.com Mitel Networks Corporation http://www.mitel.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] Business issues and FreeS/WAN (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] E-Smith + 2.4 + XFS = aXon)
Mitel Guys -- the sooner you release the better IMHO. Agreed. I would also add it would be wonderful if you released more often. Taking 4.12 as an example, since the initial release of 4.1.2 there have been mandatory security updates as well as updated rpms fixing problems found and reported on devinfo, yet the iso remains stagnant. It would be a great service to the community if the iso was updated any time something makes it to 'official' update status. Regards, -- Darrell May DMC NETSOURCED.COM http://netsourced.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
