Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Michael Grube wrote: > You are a random, anonymous person with some unqualified sense of > importance I am unimportant. Where did I talk about myself? I'm talking about the people who run this project who Ian is ignoring. Anonymously precisely because who I am is irrelevant. > I'm not sure actually, what are you trying to accomplish? Read my original mail: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55278.html > This conversation isn't really helpful anymore and should have > ended about 20 emails ago. Yes, with Ian Clarke saying "I'm sorry, I was wrong. Consider my plans void." > Veiled insults and being living because the word "Classic" > is added to the title seems incredibly dramatic to me. Classic implies Freenet is obsolete. It will mean that anyone who randomly runs into the website will consider Freenet "Classic" as outdated and not the first thing to use. It means that he effectively intends to end the project. Which is a dramatic thing. Re the insults: It was tried for many years to be polite with Ian Clarke. Unfortunately he has an extremely large ego which he uses to believe he can just dictate how the project operates. This ego needs to be trimmed by confronting him with the reality of it. > The regular users in this post who are not highly invested > developers seem fairly neutral to me. I cannot remember a single person saying the name change is a good idea.
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Ian Clarke wrote: > Freenet304987 wrote: > > But you absolutely do **not** have to steal the name of an existing > > software for that. > > The name - which I came up with - never belonged to one codebase, it > belonged to the mission. This was the case from the beginning, which > is precisely why our mission statement didn't mention any specific > implementation. You are stuck in the past. Things you did 24 years ago do not grant you free reign forever. You've been absent for over a decade, Freenet has moved on. > > Millions of software projects were able to come up with a unique > > and good name, so can you. > > I did, 24 years ago. Stuck in the past. > Don't be silly, me not doing what you think I should do isn't > "oppression". Trying to push through a major change against a whole team of people who have been working for free for you for decades. If that is not oppression, then what is? > > This is beyond ungrateful. > > It is utterly vile and you should be ashamed. > > I'm happy to hear different perspectives, but this melodramatic > language helps nobody. You arbitrarily decide you can effectively delete the work of decades (by renaming it to something which sounds obsolete, which means people will not use it). Tell me: If a whole team getting treated like this after years of donations is not melodramatic, then what is melodramatic?
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Ian Clarke wrote: > > You do not care about the currently existing, vibrant Freenet > > Community? > > I care about the maintainers and users of Fred, and I've said I > do If you care so much about the maintainers, then why are you ignoring the fact that they are **all** here, right now, telling you "no"? > this is why I've been discussing this with you for the last > 18 months to ensure that I gave your perspective a fair hearing, > even if I ultimately didn't agree with it. You discussed this in private with a single person. That is not a discussion with "the maintainerS" or the "userS", plural. Such a discussion would have been what is happening on the mailing list here right now. And as you can see, it would have resulted in a "no", because it does result in a "no" now, which you still not seem to accept.
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Ian Clarke wrote: > > The core of it is the opinion of **EVERYONE** in this room, > > Nobody wants your forced theft of the project's name, > > not even a minority! > > What "room"? This mailing list. Almost everyone who is important on the team is currently here. They're all telling you "no". How difficult is it to understand the concept of "no"? > I've already said, the constituency I care about is the next > generation. You don't speak for them. You don't either. You're born 1977. They can speak for themselves and join Locutus if they like to, or Freenet, or none. They don't need you to grandstand on their behalf. They've shown their capability with Fridays For Future.
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Ian Clarke wrote: > You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree. That's another grave misunderstanding: This is not "my" opinion. The core of it is the opinion of **EVERYONE** in this room, Nobody wants your forced theft of the project's name, not even a minority! And the rest of what I said is also very likely the opinion of a great majority of everyone who has been taking care of your project for free for decades. I know that because I actually talk to them, unlike you. Learn to read the room. You're acting like King Joffrey in GoT where he is completely isolated and proceeds to scream "I AM THE KING!!!", hoping to get his authority back, even though he has zero. Someone who has to scream he is the king is **not**. Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Ian Clarke wrote: > The constituency I'm concerned with are the children growing up > today facing a world where technology is a force of oppression > and control, not a force for good. Business as usual hasn't > addressed this and won't address it, that's why I'm doing > something about it. That's fine. But you absolutely do **not** have to steal the name of an existing software for that. Millions of software projects were able to come up with a unique and good name, so can you. Hell, nowadays you could even have ChatGPT etc. generate one. You studied CS "and artificial intelligence", use it. Besides: You say you're against technology being a force of oppression. And you do that in the same thread where you're trying to oppress the people who have been running your software project for decades, for free. This is beyond ungrateful. It is utterly vile and you should be ashamed.
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Ian, for over 10 years, I have been a member of the Freenet community, too. You have some grave misunderstandings which I would like to clear up. They concern: - what you think you're entitled to do vs. what you actually are. - what you think your personal qualities are vs. the actual ones. - *especially* what you think the consequences of forcing this through will be vs. what they actually will be. - what Freenet needs. You seem to believe that by inventing Freenet, you own it and can do whatever you want with it forever. You discovered its math, which is great, but that does not make you the owner of the math, math has no owner. Instead, Freenet, like any other open source software, is a meritocracy. You have not contributed **any** useful merit for well over 10 years. You do not write code. You do not regularly communicate with the team. You do not even talk to the users on Freenet itself. And I am fairly confident you haven't even used Freenet in ages. Typically, you are only one thing: absent for years. Then all you do is burst into the "room" every once in a while, tell everyone that what they're doing is garbage, and boss them around. Hence you're **not** entitled to use the name Freenet like you want to. The people who have been writing the code for the past decades are. Which brings us to your qualities: Yes, by having a dominant, pushy character, you are good at acquiring funding. But unfortunately, this is also what is called narcissism. You are the absolutely stereotypical manager which annoys everyone who does the **actual** work. You are not just bad at helping a team of developers, but you're actually **so bad** that the only thing you do is interrupt them. Let's talk about the elephant in the room: Nobody on the core team likes you. None. They only don't say this because they're afraid of your outbursts. You're an obstacle to them, and have been for a long time. The only reason you haven't been banned yet is that migrating the infrastructure would have been detrimental to Freenet's users and a waste of time. But this only applies up to a certain level of misbehavior. So while you think you can just force the developers to do what you want, what will actually happen is this: They'll treat you as a malicious actor, an attacker, like any other open source project would do, and fork the project - under the **original** name. Because Freenet aims to prevent censorship. That includes censorship of Freenet itself. They will publicly discredit you, and you'll be known **not** as the great leader you think you are, but just another person who turned evil. Look at how everyone hates Elon Musk, that's you, just with less money. Finally, let's talk about what Freenet needs: Freenet needs not your vision, but to be left alone by you. While you have been rambling here, Arne has merged dozens and dozens of pull requests, some of which are the 70th (!) part of continous work. Yes, it is a 20 years old codebase. But it has people who understand it, and who work to resolve its issues. People who have been working on it for **decades**. You sully their great efforts with your belief that you'd somehow still "own" Freenet. The patience to merge the 70th part of a branch, **as a volunteer** is ridiculously valuable and **not** something you can provide. **Especially** not something you should tamper with and mess up. Once your fancy new project is at the point where Freenet is now, it will be in the same situation: Rust won't be the cool toy of the day anymore, and someone will urge to rewrite it. Yet another 20 years wasted. The rewrite-treadmill is futile and must be avoided. Please do everyone a favor and step down as leader and transfer leadership to Arne who does the actual work. Stick to acquiring money for Locutus. Have fun with Locutus, nobody asks you to stop. But do **NOT** abuse the merit and name of the Freenet community to advertise Locutus. You did not add to Freenet's merit in a long time, so it is not your property. Locutus must have its own name and its own infrastructure. Move it to its own domain and GitHub with a different name than "Freenet". You do not deserve to use the name Freenet. Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
