Re: [freenet-dev] What blocks Freenet adoption?
On Mon, 2016-01-04 at 02:26 +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > What blocks Freenet adoption? I mention Freenet in conversations often. I think #1 is that it's slow. Slow means that people who don't have to use it won't. Our users who are relatively technically savvy have less time/patience than ever. Developers, developers, developers, developers. It could be easier to create applications backed by Freenet. Something akin to an app store would unlock huge potential growth IMO. A UI that helps new users navigate cool things that they can do with Freenet once it's installed. Travis ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Hackathon?
I'd hack in a hackathon! (if I have time that weekend, of course) On Thu, 2015-10-22 at 18:09 +1000, dean wrote: > On 10/21/15 13:54, Steve Dougherty wrote: > > On 10/20/2015 10:10 PM, Dan Roberts wrote: > > > Hi Everybody, > > > > > > Is anyone interested in a Freenet hackathon? > > > > I am! > > I think this is a great idea. > > > ... > > > Given the rather dire sounding "Project Status" thread, one > > > of the first threads I caught since I signed up for the ML, I > > > think a > > > this might be useful to re-envigorate the project. > > > > Agreed. > > > > > Proposal > > > > > > > > > I propose that the Freenet Project hold a 48-hour weekend > > > hackathon > > > (00:00 Saturday to 23:59 Sunday) sometime this fall or winter, > > > and > > > advertise it for a month or so prior. > > > > Sounds good. I can look into whether something around my local > > cryptoparty can get involved as well. > > > > > To do this, the project needs a few things: > > > > > > 1. A straight forward goal or priority, and lots of low-hanging > > > -fruit > > >bugs contributing to that goal. > > > > Any ideas for that? Fixing UI annoyances? Probably-physical-layer > > bugs > > like https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=6612 ? Going > > through > > and finding strange code that can be improved? Darknet invites? > > > > UI things seem likely to be the most accessible thing for newcomers > > that > > comes to mind. > > This is true, it could also be partly a bug squashing party? That > gives > us lots of small attainable goals ( maybe...) . > > > > > > 2. A guide to getting up and running quickly (perhaps gradle is > > > useful > > >here?). https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Building_from_source > > >definitely needs a bit of help either way though (I can at > > > least > > >update the command-line section). > > > > https://github.com/freenet/fred/pull/412 exists and could be a good > > starting point; I agree that gradle seems like a better near-term > > solution. > > > > > 3. Support for green developers. There will be a lot of > > > questions. > > >(Although it may lead to a "blind-leading the blind" > > > situation, I > > >volunteer here.) > > > > I plan to be around as well. Anyone else? > > Id like to be around if I can, although I'm more on the green side ; > -) > > > > > > Possible issues > > > === > > > > > > I imagine one possible objection to this initiative is that code > > > reviewer time is finite, perhaps the increased contribution > > > volume would > > > actually be counterproductive? If this is the case, then a > > > hackathon is > > > probably a non-starter, unless a large backlog of non-critical > > > patches > > > is acceptable. > > > > I'd be surprised if people go from a new codebase to anything > > requiring > > long review in the span of 48 hours. I'll be around, and hopefully > > other > > people who can review things as well, so I'd expect us to be able > > to > > deal with much if not all of it very quickly. > > > > > The other issue is that few if any of us are in the same time > > > zones. I > > > believe this is pretty much a non-issue, it would be a 48-hour > > > event, > > > and if all existing developers commit to participating for some > > > portion > > > of the weekend, there will probably be significant overlap (which > > > is > > > good). > > > > > > Even if there is zero new-developer turnout, it would be useful > > > to the > > > project to have a designated time when everyone is working > > > together (and > > > in fact perhaps be more productive in that sense). > > > > Agreed. > > If this could be made a regular thing it could be advertised and > could > definitely help newbie's get involved. > > Cheers, > Dean. > > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Behind the times
Apologies for not reading the whole convo, but I have to stop here for lack of time and want to put in two cents. On Mon, 2015-10-05 at 12:52 -0500, Ian Clarke wrote: > On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 12:57 AM, xor wrote: > > 1) The security issue. > > > > Right, but it appears that solutions exist for this with Gradle. Gradle and Maven repositories are simple directory structures, if I recall correctly. It's possible that they could be maintained in freenet for security reasons. A maven pom can describe what repositories it pulls from. That alone might be a security reason to move away from ant. And if we're moving, don't move to maven. Gradle is overtaking maven for good reasons. > Here is the feature. A developer wants to work on Freenet, so they > type: > > $ git clone g...@github.com:freenet/fred.git > $ cd fred > $ mvn assembly:assembly > > And now they've built a copy of Freenet. yyyup. I actually spent over an hour last night trying to build Freenet. I may or may not be able to come back to it tonight, but it's definitely frustrating that it doesn't compile yet. Travis ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Donation page on website
Create a Gratipay team? https://gratipay.com/about/features/teams/ On June 2, 2015 8:45:25 AM PDT, Juiceman wrote: >On Jun 2, 2015 11:07 AM, "Gerard Krol" wrote: >> >> Yes, that's the reason I didn't spend any time bringing it over. For >a >> single person donating $10k is a lot of money. A progress bar would >solve >> that. Our full goal could be to fund the project for 12 months, that >> doesn't sound unreasonable. >> >> Regards, >> >> Gerard >> > >12 months is still beyond the horizon of most average people. If you >want >to lose 50 pounds in six months you don't ignore the scale for 5 months >and >then find out you have only lost 10 pounds and stop eating for month 6. >You give yourself mini goals 5 lbs a week or 10 pounds a month or >whatever >works so you feel like progress is being made. If you don't make your >mini >goal you know to work harder for the next check-in. > >If you want to put a year progress bar next to it that is fine. > >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Juiceman >wrote: >> >> > I have been meaning to bring this for a while. The donate page >shows >our >> > balance $10K+ or whatever. In my mind this actually discourages >donations. >> > "eh. The project has enough money for now... my $10 isn't gonna >make a >> > difference." >> > >> > People respond to goals. We figure out what monthly amounts we need >to >fund >> > at full paid developer level and display that as a progress bar. >Thoughts? >> > ___ >> > Devl mailing list >> > Devl@freenetproject.org >> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl >> ___ >> Devl mailing list >> Devl@freenetproject.org >> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl >___ >Devl mailing list >Devl@freenetproject.org >https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] New Freenet website (almost finished)
Does look good. I'm reading my email on an Android tablet, and opened it in Firefox. Here's what it looks like: http://imgur.com/RNWu5JZ On June 2, 2015 5:52:41 AM PDT, hyazin...@emailn.de wrote: >My first reaction: 'Fucking hell ! Too beautiful !' :D > >Aside of this: >- The logo is too small and doesn't seem to have the best image >solution >- Missing the donation status section on the main page >- The design requires the content to be more visual, as it's more >arduous to read in this design; the main page solved this good, the >other pages not so well, yet > > >Greetings, >Torben Lechner > > >> Hello everyone! >> >> It has been a busy weekend and now the new Freenet website is almost >> finished! >> Take a look: http://realitysink.com/freenet/en/ >> The source is on Github: https://github.com/gerard-/freenet-website >> >> Thanks to everyone who gave feedback. As you can see in the readme >there >> are some things left to do. Some minor licensing stuff needs to be >finshed >> and the site will have to be translated. It uses gettext so that >should be >> quite easy. All content that was on the freenetproject.org site has >been >> migrated over and we can probably re-use most of the translations. >> >> Comments & pull requests are welcome! >> >> This message has been posted to the Freenet dev mailing list and to >the FMS >> boards Freenet and Freenet.promo. Please reply on the FMS Freenet >board if >> possible. >> >> Regards, >> >> Gerard >___ >Devl mailing list >Devl@freenetproject.org >https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Funding for Freenet - Limiting funders?
Seems to me that it's less 'who' that matters and more 'what terms'. Most significantly the objectives of the project should not be under influence, and contributed IP should be assigned. I don't really know: how often does a funder give money and just step back? On February 20, 2014 3:50:23 AM PST, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: >Hi, > >After CTS4 I started thinking about getting funding. When now Steve >had to start looking for a job, I asked Sandy for help on getting >funding, and she connected me to some people who know their stuff and >are willing to help. > >For this I asked on FMS last week if people would want to set specific >limits on funding. Things like “no governmet” and such. I did not have >time to forward this here, which is a shortcoming I now want to >correct. > >One of the funding advisers, with whom Sandy from OpenITP got me in >contact, asked me the following question: > >For grants one important consideration, particularly when moving >from a user-funded project, is: do you have particular guidelines >that you would like to follow for funding? Are you OK if a company >funded you, or perhaps only certain companies? Would any >government funding be OK or would you like to avoid government >funding, or specific governments such as the US? > >On this it’s not just my opinion which matters here, but the opinion >of all freenet users. So I would like to have *your* opinion on >that. In case you ask yourself whether you’re entitled to answer: If >you read this, then you are. > >The discussion on FMS is at > >freenet → Funding for freenet - limiting funders? We need your opinion > >Best wishes, >Arne >___ >Devl mailing list >Devl@freenetproject.org >https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] What areas of Fred most urgently need documenting/refactoring?
Matthew Toseland wrote: >On Saturday 17 Aug 2013 17:54:14 xor wrote: >> - For how long will you be gone? > >I will be leaving my role as paid chief developer. As you're not gone yet it may be premature, but I just want to thank you very thoroughly for your years of labor on this project, which I believe has done a great deal of good in the world. And if it isn't prying to ask, I'm very curious what may be next for you. Travis
Re: [freenet-dev] Maven revisited
I meant that more as a question than a statement. But if the horse is starting to die I'll avoid beating it. On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 07:23:42 + Ximin Luo wrote: > Agreed; maven is better than our current build scripts in every other respect, > but we MUST NOT use it until secure downloads are implemented. > > On 02/02/13 05:12, Travis Wellman wrote: > > How is maven different than ruby gems? > > > > http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/30/rubygems-org-hacked-interrupting-heroku-services-and-putting-millions-of-sites-using-rails-at-risk/ > > > http://traviswellman.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Maven revisited
How is maven different than ruby gems? http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/30/rubygems-org-hacked-interrupting-heroku-services-and-putting-millions-of-sites-using-rails-at-risk/ -- Travis Wellman http://traviswellman.com/ On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:36:09 -0600 Ian Clarke wrote: > I recall that the reason for not using Maven is that it doesn't operate > over a secure connection, and it leaves us open to the compromise of any of > Freenet's dependencies Maven repositories. > > This is despite the fact that no such compromise as ever occurred on any > project that I'm aware of, and since we don't do code audits of Freenet's > current dependencies, our current approach doesn't immunize us against it > anyway. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Adding exit node capability to Freenet
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 21:49:25 +
Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Thursday 24 Jan 2013 20:31:09 Travis Wellman wrote:
> > I'd like to address arbitrary applications inserted into freenet. Can we do
> > that? Say, I insert some code, 1 or more people decide to trust that code,
> > and when I address that code it runs on their nodes. This could turn their
> > nodes into exit nodes, or prime number calulators, or whatever. Maybe what
> > I insert is a Freenet plugin?
>
> You want code to run on people's nodes, with no restrictions, at the whim of
> a Web of Trust?
Yup. Consider that I'm already running your code on my node at the 'whim' of
explicitly trusting freenet. The decision to trust ('install' if you will) some
functionality should be no more dangerous than the decision I already made.
Unless someone takes explicit action, the feature would do nothing. It's a way
to have exit nodes, but I can imagine a number of uses.
>
> Or you want easier plugins?
>
> PSKs do provide some programmability in the verification of keys stage
> though, and we might be able to go further than that, while limiting the
> amount of computation done per key, and not allowing any dangerous operations
> (e.g. accessing the web).
> >
> > Speaking of sneakernets, I'm interested in modeling how sneakernets might
> > augment Freenet. Can you do routing on a sneakernet?
>
> Yes, certainly. The problem is requests will be rather long term; currently
> requests are end-to-end, over quickly. Plus, publish/subscribe would be much
> more important (ULPRs are too short term and too unreliable).
True about publish/subscribe!
> The hardest problem: even if you can route, how do you assign locations to
> the social graph? Our current swapping algorithm probably would not work
> well. Possibly something that could do thousands of swaps at once, or
> something not based on swapping at all, might be interesting. Or maybe
> geography provides enough info for usable routing.
Gps location? It should probably not assume geographic info is available.
Not sure what you mean by doing thousands of swaps. I don't think I understand
that aspect of Freenet well, but sounds interesting.
I'm hoping to be able to contribute some code soon. What would be a good thing
to start with?
___
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Re: [freenet-dev] Adding exit node capability to Freenet
I'd like to address arbitrary applications inserted into freenet. Can we do that? Say, I insert some code, 1 or more people decide to trust that code, and when I address that code it runs on their nodes. This could turn their nodes into exit nodes, or prime number calulators, or whatever. Maybe what I insert is a Freenet plugin? Speaking of sneakernets, I'm interested in modeling how sneakernets might augment Freenet. Can you do routing on a sneakernet? Also, I'll be here tonight: http://blog.archive.org/2013/01/15/memorial-for-aaron-swartz/ -- Travis Wellman http://traviswellman.com/ On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 03:41:07 -0700 Vmon wrote: > I sent it to tech but seemed kind of dead, so I'm sending it to devel as > well. > > > Hello everybody, > > I have this idea in mind and would like to know if there has been some > effort in implementing it or not. The idea is to add exit nodes to > freenet that when the content isn't available on the network some nodes > fetch it from traditional web. The idea is coming from this tool called > "Unblock": > > http://unblock.cs.washington.edu/unblock.pdf > > It's a hybrid overlay/proxy system that helps people bypass > censorship. However, it lacks the distributed storage component of the > Freenet, which can be very valuable when the censorship is very tight > (whitelisting for example) and hence exit nodes and their bandwidth are > rare compared to the demand inside the censored area. > > I would like to know if there has been any effort in implementing such a > hybrid solution in Freenet. > > Earlier this evening I had a discussion on that with toad on IRC which > I'm attaching here but his final conclusion is here: > > "it's something you could layer on top of freenet with a plugin. it will > be hideously slow but it might be faster or more convenient than > the alternatives (tor via a bridge, if they don't block them; VPNs; > tunnels via external friends, end up getting shared very thinly, low > bandwidth; etc) > > it's been suggested occasionally but not implemented afaik, i don't > remember where > > it's likely to be high latency - similar to the > man-on-a-bicycle-once-a-week schemes they use for some villages > in the middle of nowhere in the third world that can't afford a > satellite but for static content we can deal with that - and it WILL be > faster than that assuming we're not using sneakernet transport :)" > > Cheers, > Vmon > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
