[freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[xor]

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 21:43:17 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> A side-issue is whether we want help (volunteers) with system
> administration, and whether we can trust people who come forward. Do we
> have any policy on who should have root access? If you want to help then
> mail me ...

I don't want to administrate the system but I would like to have manage access 
on the bugtracker if that's possible. I have quite a few ideas on introducing 
new categories, renaming old ones, etc. So if you want to then give me 
privileges please =)
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[freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[xor]

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 23:42:06 Ian Clarke wrote:
> I think a good compromise is to use a dedicated server, but to try to use
> it in the simplest most "vanilla" way possible.  This means stick to stuff
> downloadable through apt-get, and don't do anything fancy without a very
> good reason.  Emu had some fairly elaborate re-configuration which was
> ultimately the cause of its failure.  Osprey (the new server) should remain
> as close to a stock Ubuntu install as possible.

That is a good concept IMHO, especially because we use the most popular 
distribution now so it ought to be somehow well maintained, at least we can 
hope it is =) apt-get usually also notifies us about updated default config 
files 
and offers a diff.
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Re: [freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[xor]

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 21:43:17 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> A side-issue is whether we want help (volunteers) with system
> administration, and whether we can trust people who come forward. Do we
> have any policy on who should have root access? If you want to help then
> mail me ...

I don't want to administrate the system but I would like to have manage access 
on the bugtracker if that's possible. I have quite a few ideas on introducing 
new categories, renaming old ones, etc. So if you want to then give me 
privileges please =)


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Re: [freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[xor]

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 23:42:06 Ian Clarke wrote:
> I think a good compromise is to use a dedicated server, but to try to use
> it in the simplest most "vanilla" way possible.  This means stick to stuff
> downloadable through apt-get, and don't do anything fancy without a very
> good reason.  Emu had some fairly elaborate re-configuration which was
> ultimately the cause of its failure.  Osprey (the new server) should remain
> as close to a stock Ubuntu install as possible.

That is a good concept IMHO, especially because we use the most popular 
distribution now so it ought to be somehow well maintained, at least we can 
hope it is =) apt-get usually also notifies us about updated default config 
files 
and offers a diff.


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[freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Ximin Luo]

On 01/27/2010 08:47 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> Important piece of information: Our new server is a bytemark VM with 512MB
> of RAM, 20GB of disk and 100GB monthly transfer. It costs 27/mo. I am
> concerned that it may not be able to handle the load very well.
> 
> A 1GB VM would cost 45/mo (migration is very easy)

erm, WTF?? i *bought* a 2GB stick of RAM for ?20 last summer. why do they
charge that much (?45-?27=?18) for RENTING one?

X

[freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Christian Funder Sommerlund (Zero3)]

Matthew Toseland skrev:
> What do we want to host ourselves?
> Clearly we don't want to host anything that can't be upgraded reasonably 
> easily. I.e. not Wikka.
> 
> We already outsource our git repository (Github), and file downloads (Google 
> Code).
> 
> The server currently runs:
> - Mailing lists (Mailman); this could possibly be outsourced free.
> - Several websites with and without SSL. This could be done on any php host, 
> but we need multiple IP addresses.
> - MANTIS. This is quite heavy.
> - Our current wiki Wikka (NOT PACKAGED, has to be manually kept up to date).
> It will soon run:
> - Two MediaWiki wiki's (doc-fr and our new wiki migrated from sourceforge). 
> This is reasonably easy to set up and upgrade, we can use the debian package 
> with multiple instances.
> - Possibly Lurker, although there is an argument for entirely outsourcing 
> mailing list archives, or just relying on the very basic support built in to 
> mantis.
> 
> A side-issue is whether we want help (volunteers) with system administration, 
> and whether we can trust people who come forward. Do we have any policy on 
> who should have root access? If you want to help then mail me ...

Do we really want to host any of the above ourselves?

IMHO we should outsource all these generic tasks. Our core expertise is 
developing the Freenet, not hosting websites/wikis/maillists/... on the 
internet.

- Zero3

[freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 20:43:17 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> What do we want to host ourselves?
> Clearly we don't want to host anything that can't be upgraded reasonably 
> easily. I.e. not Wikka.
> 
> We already outsource our git repository (Github), and file downloads (Google 
> Code).
> 
> The server currently runs:
> - Mailing lists (Mailman); this could possibly be outsourced free.
> - Several websites with and without SSL. This could be done on any php host, 
> but we need multiple IP addresses.
> - MANTIS. This is quite heavy.
> - Our current wiki Wikka (NOT PACKAGED, has to be manually kept up to date).
> It will soon run:
> - Two MediaWiki wiki's (doc-fr and our new wiki migrated from sourceforge). 
> This is reasonably easy to set up and upgrade, we can use the debian package 
> with multiple instances.
> - Possibly Lurker, although there is an argument for entirely outsourcing 
> mailing list archives, or just relying on the very basic support built in to 
> mantis.
> 
> A side-issue is whether we want help (volunteers) with system administration, 
> and whether we can trust people who come forward. Do we have any policy on 
> who should have root access? If you want to help then mail me ...
> 
Important piece of information:
Our new server is a bytemark VM with 512MB of RAM, 20GB of disk and 100GB 
monthly transfer. It costs 27/mo. I am concerned that it may not be able to 
handle the load very well.

A 1GB VM would cost 45/mo (migration is very easy), or a new dedicated server 
would cost 59/mo for 2GB/120GB/200GB (with a dual core ATOM), or 90/mo for 
something comparable to emu (dual core AMD, 8GB/500GB/400GB). IIRC emu actually 
cost quite a bit more than that, although they may have reduced the price later 
on?

And yes, we need the money. All figures above in GBP.
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[freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Matthew Toseland]

What do we want to host ourselves?
Clearly we don't want to host anything that can't be upgraded reasonably 
easily. I.e. not Wikka.

We already outsource our git repository (Github), and file downloads (Google 
Code).

The server currently runs:
- Mailing lists (Mailman); this could possibly be outsourced free.
- Several websites with and without SSL. This could be done on any php host, 
but we need multiple IP addresses.
- MANTIS. This is quite heavy.
- Our current wiki Wikka (NOT PACKAGED, has to be manually kept up to date).
It will soon run:
- Two MediaWiki wiki's (doc-fr and our new wiki migrated from sourceforge). 
This is reasonably easy to set up and upgrade, we can use the debian package 
with multiple instances.
- Possibly Lurker, although there is an argument for entirely outsourcing 
mailing list archives, or just relying on the very basic support built in to 
mantis.

A side-issue is whether we want help (volunteers) with system administration, 
and whether we can trust people who come forward. Do we have any policy on who 
should have root access? If you want to help then mail me ...
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[freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Christian Funder Sommerlund (Zero3) <
lists at zero3.dk> wrote:

> Do we really want to host any of the above ourselves?
>
> IMHO we should outsource all these generic tasks. Our core expertise is
> developing the Freenet, not hosting websites/wikis/maillists/... on the
> internet.
>

Well, that was the argument that motivated us to try to move everything off
emu over 6 months ago.  The result?  Nothing was moved off emu except source
control.  Its all very well saying we should move everything off our own
servers, but we tried that and it simply didn't happen.  I think we have to
accept that outsourcing everything may not be a practical goal in the short
to medium term (if only because nobody is sufficiently motivated to do the
work that would entail).

I think a good compromise is to use a dedicated server, but to try to use it
in the simplest most "vanilla" way possible.  This means stick to stuff
downloadable through apt-get, and don't do anything fancy without a very
good reason.  Emu had some fairly elaborate re-configuration which was
ultimately the cause of its failure.  Osprey (the new server) should remain
as close to a stock Ubuntu install as possible.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: ian at sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
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[freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Matthew Toseland  wrote:

> Important piece of information:
> Our new server is a bytemark VM with 512MB of RAM, 20GB of disk and 100GB
> monthly transfer. It costs 27/mo. I am concerned that it may not be able to
> handle the load very well.
>

I doubt your concern is justified, nothing we are talking about is likely to
be resource intensive so far as I can see.  Remember, half a gig of RAM used
to be a lot!

We do need to keep an eye on data transfer just to ensure we aren't hit by
any nasty surprises.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: ian at sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
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Re: [freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Ximin Luo]

On 01/27/2010 08:47 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> Important piece of information: Our new server is a bytemark VM with 512MB
> of RAM, 20GB of disk and 100GB monthly transfer. It costs 27/mo. I am
> concerned that it may not be able to handle the load very well.
> 
> A 1GB VM would cost 45/mo (migration is very easy)

erm, WTF?? i *bought* a 2GB stick of RAM for £20 last summer. why do they
charge that much (£45-£27=£18) for RENTING one?

X
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Re: [freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Christian Funder Sommerlund (Zero3) <
li...@zero3.dk> wrote:

> Do we really want to host any of the above ourselves?
>
> IMHO we should outsource all these generic tasks. Our core expertise is
> developing the Freenet, not hosting websites/wikis/maillists/... on the
> internet.
>

Well, that was the argument that motivated us to try to move everything off
emu over 6 months ago.  The result?  Nothing was moved off emu except source
control.  Its all very well saying we should move everything off our own
servers, but we tried that and it simply didn't happen.  I think we have to
accept that outsourcing everything may not be a practical goal in the short
to medium term (if only because nobody is sufficiently motivated to do the
work that would entail).

I think a good compromise is to use a dedicated server, but to try to use it
in the simplest most "vanilla" way possible.  This means stick to stuff
downloadable through apt-get, and don't do anything fancy without a very
good reason.  Emu had some fairly elaborate re-configuration which was
ultimately the cause of its failure.  Osprey (the new server) should remain
as close to a stock Ubuntu install as possible.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: i...@sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
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Re: [freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Matthew Toseland  wrote:

> Important piece of information:
> Our new server is a bytemark VM with 512MB of RAM, 20GB of disk and 100GB
> monthly transfer. It costs 27/mo. I am concerned that it may not be able to
> handle the load very well.
>

I doubt your concern is justified, nothing we are talking about is likely to
be resource intensive so far as I can see.  Remember, half a gig of RAM used
to be a lot!

We do need to keep an eye on data transfer just to ensure we aren't hit by
any nasty surprises.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: i...@sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
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Re: [freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Christian Funder Sommerlund (Zero3)]

Matthew Toseland skrev:

What do we want to host ourselves?
Clearly we don't want to host anything that can't be upgraded reasonably 
easily. I.e. not Wikka.

We already outsource our git repository (Github), and file downloads (Google 
Code).

The server currently runs:
- Mailing lists (Mailman); this could possibly be outsourced free.
- Several websites with and without SSL. This could be done on any php host, 
but we need multiple IP addresses.
- MANTIS. This is quite heavy.
- Our current wiki Wikka (NOT PACKAGED, has to be manually kept up to date).
It will soon run:
- Two MediaWiki wiki's (doc-fr and our new wiki migrated from sourceforge). 
This is reasonably easy to set up and upgrade, we can use the debian package 
with multiple instances.
- Possibly Lurker, although there is an argument for entirely outsourcing 
mailing list archives, or just relying on the very basic support built in to 
mantis.

A side-issue is whether we want help (volunteers) with system administration, 
and whether we can trust people who come forward. Do we have any policy on who 
should have root access? If you want to help then mail me ...


Do we really want to host any of the above ourselves?

IMHO we should outsource all these generic tasks. Our core expertise is 
developing the Freenet, not hosting websites/wikis/maillists/... on the 
internet.


- Zero3
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Re: [freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 20:43:17 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> What do we want to host ourselves?
> Clearly we don't want to host anything that can't be upgraded reasonably 
> easily. I.e. not Wikka.
> 
> We already outsource our git repository (Github), and file downloads (Google 
> Code).
> 
> The server currently runs:
> - Mailing lists (Mailman); this could possibly be outsourced free.
> - Several websites with and without SSL. This could be done on any php host, 
> but we need multiple IP addresses.
> - MANTIS. This is quite heavy.
> - Our current wiki Wikka (NOT PACKAGED, has to be manually kept up to date).
> It will soon run:
> - Two MediaWiki wiki's (doc-fr and our new wiki migrated from sourceforge). 
> This is reasonably easy to set up and upgrade, we can use the debian package 
> with multiple instances.
> - Possibly Lurker, although there is an argument for entirely outsourcing 
> mailing list archives, or just relying on the very basic support built in to 
> mantis.
> 
> A side-issue is whether we want help (volunteers) with system administration, 
> and whether we can trust people who come forward. Do we have any policy on 
> who should have root access? If you want to help then mail me ...
> 
Important piece of information:
Our new server is a bytemark VM with 512MB of RAM, 20GB of disk and 100GB 
monthly transfer. It costs 27/mo. I am concerned that it may not be able to 
handle the load very well.

A 1GB VM would cost 45/mo (migration is very easy), or a new dedicated server 
would cost 59/mo for 2GB/120GB/200GB (with a dual core ATOM), or 90/mo for 
something comparable to emu (dual core AMD, 8GB/500GB/400GB). IIRC emu actually 
cost quite a bit more than that, although they may have reduced the price later 
on?

And yes, we need the money. All figures above in GBP.


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[freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?

[Matthew Toseland]

What do we want to host ourselves?
Clearly we don't want to host anything that can't be upgraded reasonably 
easily. I.e. not Wikka.

We already outsource our git repository (Github), and file downloads (Google 
Code).

The server currently runs:
- Mailing lists (Mailman); this could possibly be outsourced free.
- Several websites with and without SSL. This could be done on any php host, 
but we need multiple IP addresses.
- MANTIS. This is quite heavy.
- Our current wiki Wikka (NOT PACKAGED, has to be manually kept up to date).
It will soon run:
- Two MediaWiki wiki's (doc-fr and our new wiki migrated from sourceforge). 
This is reasonably easy to set up and upgrade, we can use the debian package 
with multiple instances.
- Possibly Lurker, although there is an argument for entirely outsourcing 
mailing list archives, or just relying on the very basic support built in to 
mantis.

A side-issue is whether we want help (volunteers) with system administration, 
and whether we can trust people who come forward. Do we have any policy on who 
should have root access? If you want to help then mail me ...


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