[DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Greetings, The question of health care and the digital divide issues that are being raised about knowing and data are central to discussions that are happening in medical education and diagnosis communities. A recent book http://www.amazon.com/Interprofessional-Family-Discourses-Knowledge-Processes/dp/1572734027/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1218309980sr=1-3 Interprofessional and Family Discourses: Voices, Knowledge and Practice (Language and Social Processes) http://www.amazon.com/Interprofessional-Family-Discourses-Knowledge-Processes/dp/1572734027/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1218309980sr=1-3by Marleen Iannucci McClelland and Roberta G. Sands, Hampton Press. raises questions about how different disciplines within healthcare diagnose patients and how voices are missing. This volume raises questions about dialogues in a face2face and digital world that are central to understanding areas of the digital divide that are often not visible. They also raise questions about how parents are engaged in the dialogues and thus how patients are able to access or enter information. This volume also proposes a biosocial model that might be of interest to those involved in discussion about health care and the digital divide. This volume also address questions about what counts as knowing, research and health care and how these are constructed through different lenses used by different actors. I see the questions that were raised, therefore, as interdependent with the broader concern of this community. Judith ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Actually the discussion of Taran about social-networking HAS a lot to do with digital divide. Assuming you are in need of some critical information, but you do not know where to find them (I know these days one can just go Googleling for info or Wikipediaing), don't you think it is nice if you could just turn to a trusted source for THE MOST EXACT info? That is where your 'community' becoming your best friends. We can have all the best communication technologies in this world, but if do not have the support of your 'communities' then what is the point of having all the knowledge? Do not assume either ALL the information one needs can be found online. Do not forget there are many knowledge are in someone elses's head and not put down on paper, or a disk. Furthermore there are times when the information one gets online is dubious, or you are in need of a sounding board to help you figure out the best way to tackle the problems, that is the time you would need a trusted community for expert help. Someone mentioned about different languages. Well, just take Wikipedia. The most entries is under the English language. BUT often time I found information in Dutch, of the same topic, gives me better info than English. But how many of us can speak more than one or two languages? Again, some human connections would be nice. Technologies is a media. Without HUMAN to pull or push for information or knowledge, technologies would forever remain some dumb media. Cindy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Sat, 9/8/08, Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Saturday, 9 August, 2008, 8:05 PM Just wondering ... all these talks. Where are they leading to? Lots of theories but would love to hear more about actual actions. Anyone here actually improving digital divide and Human Health activities? And how? Alan --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Mary Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mary Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 1:05 AM Hi there I think I asked the same question myself earlier?? Mary From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jorge Gallardo Rius Sent: Sat 8/9/2008 16:11 To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health Hey guys, What does all this have to do with Health and the Digital Divide? --- On Fri, 8/8/08, Stephen Snow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Stephen Snow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 3:10 PM Taran, Data is not a bad thing; it also is not every thing. Empiricism does not make for truth anymore than feeling makes for empiricism. [Was Decartes correct of did he just have it backward? Maybe instead of I think therefore I am, it is I am, therefore I think...and because I think I *know* that I am!] It takes a combination. Just as you say you need data, you cite a quixotic novelist as your own data. That's not a criticism, it is merely a reflection fo the way we all are -- needing both facts and knowing, the latter of which often is other than or beyond facts or empirical data. Now, of course, data matter. And there is a dearth of solid data in many areas of the electronic world. And from a data perspective, then, we can't really know what works or to what depth. (It raises a huge question about the actual validity of ANY online mechanisms, doesbn't it? About all we truly know is that a lot of people [20% of 6 billion is still quite a bunch in my limited thinking] use the heck out of this stuff and they use it in their own ways and for their own purposes, which often aren't OUR purposes or even purposes we believe are useful or valuable or, even, right. What was it Sam Clemmens once wrote? There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. So it isn't just data but also the quality of the data -- how it was gathered, how it was conceived (!), how it was interpreted -- that matters, as well. As long as I have been actively involved in the online world, and I'd put that right at about 20 years, I have believed (felt, sensed -- not known) that no one really knows what is going on with all of the online things. As soon as someone says he/she does know, I am immediately skeptical. Companies often do this: they love to prognosticate value or usage or some certain future because it might benefit them in some way. The truth -- or better yet, my belief -- is that we all are still touching separate parts of the elephant and describing it as the whole. --Steve Snow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Stephen Snow wrote: Taran, Data is not a bad thing; it also is not every thing. Empiricism does not make for truth anymore than feeling makes for empiricism. [Was Decartes correct of did he just have it backward? Maybe instead of I think therefore I am, it is I am, therefore I think...and because I think I *know* that I am!] Data is not good or bad. The interpretation of data can be good or bad. Data simply *is*, it sits there. So I'm wondering where the data is sitting; we don't seem to have sufficient for good or bad interpretation. It takes a combination. Just as you say you need data, you cite a quixotic novelist as your own data. That's not a criticism, it is merely a reflection fo the way we all are -- needing both facts and knowing, the latter of which often is other than or beyond facts or empirical data. I did not quote Vonnegut as 'data', but I added his quotation as a balance. Vonnegut's work is not popular because people find him disagreeable... so maybe he was onto something when he wrote that. I cannot reject his remarks so easily because of that: further, recent experiences in my own life allow for some support of that. Be happy that I did not quote Vonnegut's reference to a US mailbox as a blue bullfrog that ate his mail and said 'ribbit'. ;-) Now, of course, data matter. And there is a dearth of solid data in many areas of the electronic world. And from a data perspective, then, we can't really know what works or to what depth. (It raises a huge question about the actual validity of ANY online mechanisms, doesbn't it? About all we truly know is that a lot of people [20% of 6 billion is still quite a bunch in my limited thinking] use the heck out of this stuff and they use it in their own ways and for their own purposes, which often aren't OUR purposes or even purposes we believe are useful or valuable or, even, right. 20% of 6 billion is abysmal in my way of thinking, for cultural reasons and otherwise. Perhaps that is a data point to consider in our different perspectives. And as far as the 20% of people 'using the heck out of this stuff' - no, the 20% is a reference as to how many people have access. The frequency and vigor of their use are not in the data. Slashdot.org, in 2004/2005, was seeing 3-4 million hits per day. But those web site statistics do not reflect individual users... as an example. What was it Sam Clemmens once wrote? There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. So it isn't just data but also the quality of the data -- how it was gathered, how it was conceived (!), how it was interpreted -- that matters, as well. Agreed. As long as I have been actively involved in the online world, and I'd put that right at about 20 years, I have believed (felt, sensed -- not known) that no one really knows what is going on with all of the online things. As soon as someone says he/she does know, I am immediately skeptical. Companies often do this: they love to prognosticate value or usage or some certain future because it might benefit them in some way. The truth -- or better yet, my belief -- is that we all are still touching separate parts of the elephant and describing it as the whole. Agreed. So how do we substantiate, in the context of this discussion, whether the digital divide and human health have a positive or negative effect on each other? -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Jorge Gallardo Rius wrote: Hey guys, What does all this have to do with Health and the Digital Divide? Everything. We all are discussing Health and the Digital Divide, but we're all looking at it from different angles. Even so, from these different angles we've yet to see any concrete data. This is a weakness in the discussion - and one that probably should be addressed. A discussion based on perception is well and good, but what are we basing the perceptions on? -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Paperless Homework wrote: Anyone here actually improving digital divide and Human Health activities? And how? Alan That's the crux of the discussion we're having, I think. How can you say that something is improving or not without data to support the claim? We are not selling snake oil here... :-) -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
So..some concrete things: --In Alaska, people are using satellites and computers to get counseling in remote villages. Is this additive? Is it helpful? Don't know. No data. Yet. --Here in North Carolina, there is a multi-node telepsychiatry initiative; T1s to rural sites to bring diagnostic capability to areas where mental health care is largely nonexistent. Helpful? I don't have data to say one way or another. The equipment is expensive and the projects cost a lot to mount and sustain. Would it be cheaper/better to entice a psychiatrist to do this in person, even as a circuit-rider? Well, I don't know! IF you could find one willing, and IF you could pay him/her enough to make it worth their while...maybe. --Pew surveys suggest that upwards of 150 million people use the web to get health information every year...mainly people in the U.S. Is this additive? What is the quality of the information they reach, and how do they know it is actually the right information? Would they be better served going to a doctor? Or picking up a book? So there are these questions about, even on a cost-benefit basis, if internet-mediated communication and information is worth it. To those of us who are early adopters -- and that might be considered many of those on this list -- we might find a lot of utility in the web. But we have grown with the internet and the web and have an extended learning curve. Information on the web is inadequately aggregated and poorly arranged and not well-maintained. There is useful stuff there, but I don't think anything is served by a gee-whiz approach to the web; I can't say that I *know* this, but I do *think* that we have a long way to go before the web is really useful to a big number of people. Now, 20% of 6 billions *is* a lot of people, and they get some functionality out of all of this (probably mostly email!) but it is a far cry from Dave Hughes's vision of wiring the planet. We are still too west-focused, in information, usage and language to have big usefulness...and then there are larger issues about the narrowing of interests and parochializing thought through the vertical nature of the internetSo lots of questions. Health and the digital divide is right in there. Steve Snow [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 8/10/08 12:30 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually the discussion of Taran about social-networking HAS a lot to do with digital divide. Assuming you are in need of some critical information, but you do not know where to find them (I know these days one can just go Googleling for info or Wikipediaing), don't you think it is nice if you could just turn to a trusted source for THE MOST EXACT info? That is where your 'community' becoming your best friends. We can have all the best communication technologies in this world, but if do not have the support of your 'communities' then what is the point of having all the knowledge? Do not assume either ALL the information one needs can be found online. Do not forget there are many knowledge are in someone elses's head and not put down on paper, or a disk. Furthermore there are times when the information one gets online is dubious, or you are in need of a sounding board to help you figure out the best way to tackle the problems, that is the time you would need a trusted community for expert help. Someone mentioned about different languages. Well, just take Wikipedia. The most entries is under the English language. BUT often time I found information in Dutch, of the same topic, gives me better info than English. But how many of us can speak more than one or two languages? Again, some human connections would be nice. Technologies is a media. Without HUMAN to pull or push for information or knowledge, technologies would forever remain some dumb media. Cindy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Sat, 9/8/08, Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Saturday, 9 August, 2008, 8:05 PM Just wondering ... all these talks. Where are they leading to? Lots of theories but would love to hear more about actual actions. Anyone here actually improving digital divide and Human Health activities? And how? Alan --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Mary Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mary Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 1:05 AM Hi there I think I asked the same question myself earlier?? Mary From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jorge Gallardo Rius Sent: Sat 8/9/2008 16:11 To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
This is an interesting discussion, though it may be an easier one to have as a set of narrower questions on a web discussion. I agree that the use of data, both qualitative and quantitative, would be ultimately vital to determining impact and perhaps not enough as been done. Just as important is defining the scope of questions. I see a number of arenas for this. Human health is also broad. I leave that to health experts, but perhaps this encompasses individual physical and mental health, and then public health. I also see some distinction between getting health info, getting info about where to get health assistance, participatory health support activities, and use of digital media to support creating health marketing materials, and use of telecenters and digital media as a health prevention (and fitness and public safety) activity. Here are some of the areas of research I'd see on this topic from my experience in community technology. 1) Does learning about health information online improve health? 2) Does participating in a health or disease-related support group improve physical and/or mental health? 3) Does retrieving health info likely lead to its use and to a subsequent impact? How is this different or complementary to information provided by another source (friend, care provider, brochure)? 4) How many community technology/ telecentres are connecting residents with health and fitness information? (e.g. I know of a group of seniors that use the computer lab to retrieve walking maps for their exercise.) 5) If someone's knowledge of using a computer and the Internet increases, does it increase their sense of self-sufficiency and control, and thereby extend their life and quality of life? (There's an interesting potential correlation to some research done in England finding that if seniors have a greater sense of their choices and control, it results in extending their lives.) 6) Does a social network, with an e-component (email, text, web), enhance a consumer's access to health care provider and health information (that is accurate)? 7) Does the production of content (e.g. writing about nutrition, your health, mapping neighborhood air quality) lead to increased health awareness and health? 8) What is the public safety impact of youth media programs? This is all consumer sided vs provider sided (health professionals getting access to exchanging data and best practices) and doesn't include potential impact from health monitoring (remote testing/transmission on diabetes, blood pressure, etc). And of course all this takes money for research. I'd definitely like to see more and how it gets indexed in the health and Internet/dig divide/ social health journals. - David *** David Keyes Director of Community Technology Programs City of Seattle Department of Information Technology PO Box 94709 Seattle, WA 98124-4709 USA (206) 386-9759 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax (206) 684-0911 http://seattle.gov/tech/ Street address: 700 Fifth Ave. Suite 2700 Judith Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/10/08 7:04 AM Greetings, The question of health care and the digital divide issues that are being raised about knowing and data are central to discussions that are happening in medical education and diagnosis communities. A recent book http://www.amazon.com/Interprofessional-Family-Discourses-Knowledge-Processes/dp/1572734027/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1218309980sr=1-3 Interprofessional and Family Discourses: Voices, Knowledge and Practice (Language and Social Processes) http://www.amazon.com/Interprofessional-Family-Discourses-Knowledge-Processes/dp/1572734027/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1218309980sr=1-3by Marleen Iannucci McClelland and Roberta G. Sands, Hampton Press. raises questions about how different disciplines within healthcare diagnose patients and how voices are missing. This volume raises questions about dialogues in a face2face and digital world that are central to understanding areas of the digital divide that are often not visible. They also raise questions about how parents are engaged in the dialogues and thus how patients are able to access or enter information. This volume also proposes a biosocial model that might be of interest to those involved in discussion about health care and the digital divide. This volume also address questions about what counts as knowing, research and health care and how these are constructed through different lenses used by different actors. I see the questions that were raised, therefore, as interdependent with the broader concern of this community. Judith ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Correction -- MEDIA in the sentence below should be MEDIUM Technologies is a media. Without HUMAN to pull or push for information or knowledge, technologies would forever remain some dumb media. Cindy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Sun, 10/8/08, Stephen Snow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Stephen Snow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Sunday, 10 August, 2008, 5:30 PM So..some concrete things: --In Alaska, people are using satellites and computers to get counseling in remote villages. Is this additive? Is it helpful? Don't know. No data. Yet. --Here in North Carolina, there is a multi-node telepsychiatry initiative; T1s to rural sites to bring diagnostic capability to areas where mental health care is largely nonexistent. Helpful? I don't have data to say one way or another. The equipment is expensive and the projects cost a lot to mount and sustain. Would it be cheaper/better to entice a psychiatrist to do this in person, even as a circuit-rider? Well, I don't know! IF you could find one willing, and IF you could pay him/her enough to make it worth their while...maybe. --Pew surveys suggest that upwards of 150 million people use the web to get health information every year...mainly people in the U.S. Is this additive? What is the quality of the information they reach, and how do they know it is actually the right information? Would they be better served going to a doctor? Or picking up a book? So there are these questions about, even on a cost-benefit basis, if internet-mediated communication and information is worth it. To those of us who are early adopters -- and that might be considered many of those on this list -- we might find a lot of utility in the web. But we have grown with the internet and the web and have an extended learning curve. Information on the web is inadequately aggregated and poorly arranged and not well-maintained. There is useful stuff there, but I don't think anything is served by a gee-whiz approach to the web; I can't say that I *know* this, but I do *think* that we have a long way to go before the web is really useful to a big number of people. Now, 20% of 6 billions *is* a lot of people, and they get some functionality out of all of this (probably mostly email!) but it is a far cry from Dave Hughes's vision of wiring the planet. We are still too west-focused, in information, usage and language to have big usefulness...and then there are larger issues about the narrowing of interests and parochializing thought through the vertical nature of the internetSo lots of questions. Health and the digital divide is right in there. Steve Snow [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 8/10/08 12:30 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually the discussion of Taran about social-networking HAS a lot to do with digital divide. Assuming you are in need of some critical information, but you do not know where to find them (I know these days one can just go Googleling for info or Wikipediaing), don't you think it is nice if you could just turn to a trusted source for THE MOST EXACT info? That is where your 'community' becoming your best friends. We can have all the best communication technologies in this world, but if do not have the support of your 'communities' then what is the point of having all the knowledge? Do not assume either ALL the information one needs can be found online. Do not forget there are many knowledge are in someone elses's head and not put down on paper, or a disk. Furthermore there are times when the information one gets online is dubious, or you are in need of a sounding board to help you figure out the best way to tackle the problems, that is the time you would need a trusted community for expert help. Someone mentioned about different languages. Well, just take Wikipedia. The most entries is under the English language. BUT often time I found information in Dutch, of the same topic, gives me better info than English. But how many of us can speak more than one or two languages? Again, some human connections would be nice. Technologies is a media. Without HUMAN to pull or push for information or knowledge, technologies would forever remain some dumb media. Cindy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Sat, 9/8/08, Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Saturday, 9 August, 2008, 8:05 PM Just wondering ... all these talks. Where are they leading to? Lots of theories but would love to hear more about actual actions. Anyone here actually improving digital divide and Human Health activities? And how? Alan --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Mary Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mary
