RE: [DDN] dumping old computers in the developing world
This is a terrible practice - sending our garbage to the poor. But new or old, computers will not be useful without software designed for applications relevant to the users. If they are illiterate, at any age, the first software they will need is that for developing literacy, in all its forms. Since each learner is unique, it should adapt to the individual person. It is currently useless to connect an illiterate person to the Internet, or to provide them with any existing computer tools. Illiteracy is not just a problem in the poor countries. It is all too common in the United States. So this software is needed everywhere, in many languages. Why is it not available now? Alfred Bork Donald Bren School of Information and Computer Science University of California, Irvine ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] open source article by DDN member christian einfeldt
I predict that Open Source is another of the false views of the future mentioned at the beginning of his article. We need content, not tools. Alfred Bork [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of California, Irvine. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Phil Shapiro Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 10:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [DDN] open source article by DDN member christian einfeldt hi everyone - this article on the Mad Penguin web site is very interesting. http://madpenguin.org/cms/html/62/5297.html authored by none other than DDN member christian einfeldt, from san francisco. http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/einfeldt - phil for extra credit points, check out this article explaining how open source will outlive windows. http://madpenguin.org/cms/?m=showid=4791 -- Phil Shapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.his.com/pshapiro/ (personal) http://www.digitaldivide.net/blog/pshapiro (blog) http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/pshapiro (technology access work) http://mytvstation.blogspot.com/ (video and rich media) Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others. - Desiderata ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] A Littl' More On Bridging the Digital Divide in Africa
I maintain that everyone should initially learn to read and write in the language or languages they have just learned to speak and to understand. I mean everyone on earth. This is possible today, but not with current educational directions and learning units. We should remove the emphasis on technology, and create the necessary learning modules. This can be done with highly adaptive tutorial computer-based units, in many languages. I suggest starting with a major experiment with young children soon after they have learned their native languages, involving all literacies, reading, writing, arithmetic, science, and technology. A proposal for the experiment is available. This experiment is only the first step. We then need a detailed plan to go from this beginning to learning for everyone on earth at all ages. It is likely to be an attainable goal, not just in Africa but everywhere. The key is creating all the learning material needed. This must be affordable by individuals and the world, so we need economic evaluation. Solving the problem of learning for all will help solve our other major global problems, including the digital divide. Alfred Bork [EMAIL PROTECTED] Donald Bren School for Information and Computer Science University of California, Irvine ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] A Digital Divide review: what to start with
Power is not necessary. Solar power is getting better and better. And mechanical means can generate power. Learning material for all forms of literacy is the best starting point, as I said. Alfred Bork University of California, Irvine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ehewitt Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 8:20 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: RE: [DDN] A Digital Divide review: what to start with What about reliable, affordable and accessible power? Errol Hewitt At 17:04 10/10/2005 -0700, you wrote: I would think that the first priority should be literacy, for everyone. In the US we still have a high illiteracy rate for adults. Access to current technology and information is of no use if the user cannot read. Mathematical literacy is also high on my list of priorities. Alfred Bork ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] A Digital Divide review: what to start with
I would think that the first priority should be literacy, for everyone. In the US we still have a high illiteracy rate for adults. Access to current technology and information is of no use if the user cannot read. Mathematical literacy is also high on my list of priorities. Alfred Bork University of California, Irvine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Grebnev Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:13 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] A Digital Divide review: what to start with Thank you, this seems to be a good initiative. Also, I have decided to narrow down the scope of the problem to a number of individual aspects as I feel it is the only possible way to accomplish the task. The topics I am going to cover are as follows: 1) access to technology 2) access to information (includes networking) 3) acquiring the minimal ICT skills at school 4) acquiring the minimal ICT skills after school 5) the ethnical aspect (with the 160 ethnic groups and only few of them having computerized literacy this seems to be one of the specific problems of the country) 6) lack of specialized content 7) the gender aspect Maybe there's something extremely important left out. And if so, I will be glad if someone points this out. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Bridging the Digital Divide in the US
Several recent letters from Canada were in this list, some making negative comments about my views I criticized the courses currently available on the internet. I do not think there is much of value there, and I know of very little competent research that thinks otherwise. I see the following problems with current internet courses. 1. They are mostly imitations of courses based on lectures or video, so they suffer from the same problems as the older courses. 2. These courses are primarily passive, with large chunks of video or text. So there is little interaction. 3. There is little adaptation to the needs of the students, or attempts to find the learning problems of each individual student. This is critical for effective learning and possible today. 4. Many students do not learn with such courses. 5. They tend to allow the student to jump frequently, in the sense of hypertext. Research with the Brown hypertext courses and with the IBM products - Illuminated Manuscripts and Columbus - shows that the student choices are mostly random. 6. Most of the testing in such material is multiple choice. This is an inferior testing method, as skill in answering multiple choice questions can be learned so that students can do well with no knowledge of the subject area. I had some interesting experience here in working with ETS on GRE physics. An article today by Lisa McNeil tells of her experience in passing a hepatitis exam intended for the continuing education of doctors while knowing nothing about the subject area. Multiple cholce is the work of the devil, unsuitable for humans! 7. There is little well done evaluation of these courses. 8. The Internet itself has many problems. NSF is currently investigating what should be done. 9. Learning in the US (and Canada?) is not improving with these available courses. We know today how to overcome all these learning problems, and produce very effective courses on networks. The problem is that many current developers do not understand how to produce better learning units. Alfred Bork University of California, Irvine Donald Bren School of Information and Computer Science ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Is the Internet the New Social Welfare Delivery System?
Tom Abeles mentioned one of my favorite books about learning, The Diamond Age. Nell's primer in the book is possible today. It closely matches what I think should be happening. It is highly adaptive to her needs. I have a paper that describes this and three other such fictional views about the future of learning. You can find it on my web site www.ics.uci.edu/~bork under papers. Alfred Donald Bren School of Information and Computer Science University of California, Irvine ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Alfred Bork
Steve Thank you for your letter. I agree that this list is too full of text bytes. First, with regard to simulation, my views have changed a bit. We now think that a simulation like Motion, developed over thirty years ago, was 'naked.' By this I mean that It did not help students learn to use it, it did not watch to see if the student was looking at reasonable cases, and, most important, it did not determine what if anything the student was learning. So for many students it did not work, similar to all naked simulations. If you look at the genetic simulation in Families, in the Scientific Reasoning Series developed over 15 years ago, you will see a simulation imbedded in a learning environment. The simulation is less than 5 percent of the code. The program allows every student to discover the laws of genetics. 'Batteries and Bulbs', in the same series, also shows a similar example. We still demonstrate these programs today. To go to your second question, adaptive tutorial learning is still alive, but at the moment is not making progress. I do not see any other possibility for learning for all, the first step in solving most of the global problems. Currently we are wasting tons of money on possibly minor improvements in learning, usually with no full plan to improve learning. There are always the bandwagon types, leaping on each new technology as solving everything. But the problem here is not primarily a technology problem. It is a complex problem, needing a full plan. I think this situation will change, if we work toward that change. I invite others to join with me in the endeavor. The way to begin is with a major experiment with young children, and on the illiteracy problem at any age. These can probably be solved together, for all forms of illiteracy. I will send more information separately to you and to others who request it. Alfred Donald Bren School of Information and Computer Science University of California, Irvine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 4:00 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: RE: [DDN] Alfred Bork For some reason which others can guess at but only he can confirm Alfred Bork, who has a long ( 30 years? 40?) and distinguished record as an advocate and developer of computer tutoring programs chooses to confine his remarks in discussions such as this to bitter jabs at what he considers misquided emphases in the educational technology movement. Here, for example, is Dr. Bork describing a computer-teaching program in physics in a 1980 book of essays: Our most widely used student-computer dialogue is MOTION, an 'F=ma' world for the student to explore freely. Students control in a highly interactive manner, the force laws, equation constants and initial conditions. Thus, they can examine many more situations than they can in the 'real'world, with much more control. Further they need not view the systems only in configuration (x-y) space, but can plot any two or three physically meaninful variables, thus moving toward viewing the system as existing in a wide variety of spaces normally unavailable. The very wide use by students not enrolled in physics classes testifies to its success. Hubert Dreyfus, deeply critical of what he saw as an excessive faith in the future of the computer as a teaching tool, quoted this paragraph in his 1986 book MIND OVER MACHINE and commented: In the future such simulations will surely become more common, helping students of all ages in all disciplines develop thier intuition. Dr. Bork, was this prediction accurate? Or is the computer tutoring movement less alive than it was in 1980? You have never lost faith or sight of this vision, and now believe that new visual and audio technologies make it possible for well-designed teaching/tutoring software to be a principal weapon in such global education problems as illiteracy. Why has this bandwagon come to a halt? Steve Eskow ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Bridging the Digital Divide in the US
I seriously doubt that either labs or computers in homes will help, particularly not old computers, The article accessed through the URL argues that the current situation is not tolerable, which I agree with. Then it proposes a solution, computers in homes, that is not going to help, with no evidence to support it. The real problem is that there is so little of use currently on the Internet, particularly with regard to learning. We need learning that continuously adapts to each user. Alfred Bork Donald Bren School of Information and Computer Science University of California, Irvine ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
Why not wait for the 99 cent laptop? Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Thompson Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 7:07 AM To: 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group' Subject: RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop Don't know about everyone else, but I think I'll wait for the $99 laptop. John T. Thompson, Ph.D. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
Who is 'we?' Not me. Learning as practiced today, in both the rich and poor parts of the world, is poor at best, and often nonexistent. Nothing works! For the US, see for example the publications of the National Academy of Sciences in reading, writing, and arithmetic. Or read the almost daily bombardment in the press on the poor quality of learning. For the rest of the world, talk to the billion children who have no schools. Nature seems to have tolerated plenty of failures! If some of you would like to see a draft paper of what I think should happen to lead to learning for all, plese let me know. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alfred -Original Message- Taran Rampersad Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:59 PM Why not wait for 99 studies of empirical evidence to support what we know already works? Nature doesn't have a plan. It simply doesn't tolerate failures. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
This topic has produced several letters. But like many things on this list it is looking only at hardware to solve problems. That will never happen with any of the major global problems, I predict. They are too complex to be solved by hardware ALONE. None of the twenty critical global problems discussed in High Noon are closer to solution than they were several years ago when the book was published. There are some ideas, but not fully understood yet. Alfred Bork ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] BBC story about the Divide -- in India
Yes. We must recognize that many poor people will not have reliable electricity. We can build solar capabilities easily into computers, and it has been done. Oddly, none of the cheap computer proposals (simputer, pctv from Carnegie Mellon, or the MIT computer design) have solar power as an option. More generally, Adlite, I agree that it is critical to have something very useful to use on these machines. Current Internet content is completely inadequate for the needs of most of these people now living in poverty. Health and education are good beginning possibilities, but it is not happening so far. Nor as far as I can see is anyone now making the effort to generate a critical mass of such material, in all the languages needed. . We should not invest in hardware for the poor until we have a sizable body of valuable material that meets their needs Alfred Bork University of California, Irvine. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adite Chatterjee Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 8:35 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] BBC story about the Divide -- in India Interesting story and not very new.. There are a few issues though: one's not disputing that computers are if not as necessary as clean drinking water and health centres, important as wellbut what after the novelty factor of the computer has gone down. What happens after power outages, irregular maintenance and simply the daily grind of making a living makes the computer just another unused item. Journalists rarely go back to write stories about that...There are other stories that are not being covered by the world media. For instance how the Internet is being used to make women self-sufficient in villages in Tamil Nadu... It's not just about technology for the sake of it, but using it to benefit people to make a living. Ultimately that's the model that needs to be developed to bridge the digital divide. Adite Chatterjee On 5/2/05, Steven Wagenseil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another very useful and interesting story reported by the BBC (One of heir editors must have awakened to the issue recently.) Check it out http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4498511.stm Steve ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- Adite Chatterjee www.icfdc.com ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: FW: [DDN] Simputer
I agree, Raymond. The potential dangers of widespread open source software (including operating systems) are great. Alfred Bork -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Raymond -Info Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 3:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group' Subject: RE: FW: [DDN] Simputer I actually like the idea of a simple low cost computer to assist with bridging the digital divide, with an emphasis on ASSIST. But I do have a problem with the idea of Open Source operating system; maybe someone can clarify this for me. If Microsoft has such a problem with people hacking into the loopholes of their closed source code, what type of malicious viruses will we begin seeing if an Open Source Operating system such as Linux becomes the dominant OS? Raymond Waynick ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
FW: [DDN] Simputer
There are half a dozen projects for producing cheap computers, including ones at MIT and Carnegie Mellon, most more interesting than the simputer. But none of them is based on any analysis of educational needs. I propose that we should delay such design until we have a sizable body of well evaluated learning material. Alfred Bork ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Fortune Digital Divide and Global Leadership
Lars has a very important point. Profit may play a role, perhaps a central role, in solving many of our major problems, including the digital divide and education for all. The idea that we can do it all with free software is a romantic notion, one that does not take into account the major expenses of producing good software and hardware that will work globally. Consider for example educational material. There is a long pre-computer history of producing quality learning units. For example, in the post Sputnik curriculum efforts each project cost millions of dollars. I see no examples of extensive effective learning units developed in any area, with of without technology, which has been developed with no cost. Does anyone on this list know of any? In our plan for the education for all solution, profit plays an important role. Alfred Bork University of California, Irvine ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] FW: [NIFL-HEALTH:4627] Adult Literacy education Wiki
To Steve Eskow Good summary of my view! Perhaps one point where I do not follow is that our tutoring is not Intelligent, in the sense of artificial intelligence. All the decisions are made by the designers, not by AI strategies within the programs. Eventually the approaches of artificial intelligence will probably be useful for large numbers of students, but not now. It is critical, I believe, that the student interaction must be frequent. Based on our studies the times between meaningful student actions should not generally exceed twenty seconds. Typically this is a free-form answer to a question from the computer, so the form is Socratic. The reason for the tutorial approach is to allow the learning units to adapt to each student. I see this lack of treating each learner as a unique individual, with different learning problems and interests, is the major reason why current approaches so often fail for many students, in both the developed and developing parts of the world. So this approach is the basis for solving the global problem of education for all, the billions you mention. We have developed at Irvine, a full system for producing such adaptive tutorial modules. I want to begin with a major experiment for young children. I suggest three areas, reading and writing for the first three years, mathematics for the first three years, and science for one year. Some of this work would be done in multiple languages. If the experiment is successful, I think we can attain 'education for all' in twenty years. This, and related matters, are described in the book I am writing at present, as I have mentioned before on this list. Alfred -Original Message- From: Steve Eskow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 8:42 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] FW: [NIFL-HEALTH:4627] Adult Literacy education Wiki To Alfred Bork: Alfred, since it is your practice not to go into detail on your views and proposals for solving the global education crisis but to send those interested to your books, there is often misunderstanding of what you are criticizing and what you are proposing. I'd like to try summarizing your position in stark black and white terms, risking misrepresenting the position but trusting that you will then correct my errors and add the necessary shadings and nuances. First: you have been since the 1970's a leader in the movement to use the computer and allied intellectual technologies such as artificial intelligence to create what have been called intelligent tutoring systems. Such tutoring systems have the student interact solely with the computer and the software that guides the process of individualized student learning. You argue that if the system has been well designed no intervention by a live teacher is required for good learning. An important plank in your current position is that the size of the current global education need--billions needing instruction--means that no system of learning that requires live instruction--whether face to face or at a distance--can begin to make appreciable inroads. Thus you reject or criticize most distance learning schemes, built as they are around live teachers who teach 30 or 300 or 3000 students, as being irrelevant, distractions from real solutions to the problem of global ignorance. The Wiki movement, therefore, you would tend to see as part of the pseudosolution. Recently you have incorporated into your thinking the belief that the newer voice-based technologies would allow illiterate students to converse with intelligent software in their native language, and be guided by that software to knowledge and skill. You believe, therefore, that attention ought to be given to raising the comparatively few millions of dollars that would be needed to create such intelligent instructional programs, test and improve them, and put them to w ork solving the world's educational problems. Alfred, am I at all close? Steve Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Alfred Bork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [DDN] FW: [NIFL-HEALTH:4627] Adult Literacy education Wiki Yes, Siobhan, I have looked at the wiki. My comment about personal experiences was not referring to the content of the wiki, but rather to the idea that it was going to help solve the major problem of adult literacy. What is missing is any use of interaction and personalization, critical ingredients for learning. Librarians sometime think that one need only display the knowledge, but for most people this is not sufficient for learning. I would be happy to send to readers my proposal on literacy. It is intended for young children, but the ideas could often extend to adults. Learning would be highly adaptive to the individual learner. Alfred
RE: [DDN] FW: [NIFL-HEALTH:4627] Adult Literacy education Wiki
Thank you for your thoughtful comments, Ross. We need to focus our energies and insist on empirical information, not vague mostly emotional personal experiences and arguments. Firstly, I would be careful of making assumptions about the experiences of people in this group. Secondly, how are we to get this empirical evidence if we are not to experiment with all potential solutions? Scientists eliminate some possibilities before beginning an experiment. Finally, if you have empirical evidence that supports your position please provide it and save us all some time. [Alfred Bork] My papers and books describe such an experiment, but we do not yet have funding for such an experiment. Convincing experiments in education are costly and difficult, because of the great differences between individuals. Only one in ten people in the world has internet access, and it is often marginal at best, No software on the current Internet will solve the massive problem of adult literacy I think you missed the proposed use of the Wiki. It is as an information gathering source for those who *do* have Internet connectivity. Not as a tool for the adult learners themselves. Are you saying that the Wiki will have no direct application to solving the problem of adult literacy, but will only suggest through its articles some possible directions? I will be happy to send the outline of my new book, and other information, to interested people. Please write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . It proposes to solve the 'education for all' problem with adaptive learning. Alfred Bork ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] FW: [NIFL-HEALTH:4627] Adult Literacy education Wiki
I could not care less about the status quo or influence. My goal is to improve learning in the world, including literacy, by an order of magnitude. It can be done, but not if intelligent people jump on ANY new bandwagon that appears. We need to focus our energies and insist on empirical information, not vague mostly emotional personal experiences and arguments. Only one in ten people in the world has internet access, and it is often marginal at best, No software on the current Internet will solve the massive problem of adult literacy I will be happy to send the outline of my new book, and other information, to interested people. Please write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . It proposes to solve the 'education for all' problem with adaptive learning. Alfred Bork University of California, Irvine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taran Rampersad Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:15 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] FW: [NIFL-HEALTH:4627] Adult Literacy education Wiki Alfred Bork wrote: I see no evidence that this will help adult literacy in any large amount. At best it is an unfounded hope. I could have fun with this and say that some hope is based on faith, but that's not really what this is about. Wikis have had a tangible influence throughout the world; the era preceding Wikis lacked said influence. Every new idea is seen by some as a solution. And every new idea is seen by everyone as a challenge to the status quo. Whether people are against change or for change is really the issue. Take podcasting, as an example. It challenges the status quo. There are problems with it for the developing world; one is a matter of usability through access to bandwidth. That's a tangible problem. But is it worthwhile to address? Certainly. There are problems that need to be addressed, and even as I have played the part of devil's advocate about podcasting and mobcasting, it doesn't mean that it isn't a worthwhile thing to explore. In fact, it has to be explored to gain the evidence to substantiate either position - optimist or pessimist. And there are ways around the issue of bandwidth that have nothing to do with bandwidth. By identifying problems, they can be solved. So far, I have yet to see anything but spurious rejection about Wikis. Truth be told, I did not originally like Wikis. But the core of the Wiki is something that I do believe in - participation - so I played with it anyway. And I liked it - while there are things that I do not believe a Wiki should be used for, I will stand up for what they are good for. And they certainly are good for education - perhaps the role is limited in traditional institutions that are unwilling to adapt, but in time the gatekeepers will retire or die. Wikis have a place in the future, I have no doubt. As an autodidact, my interest in the present education system is fleeting - my interest in the future education system will affect the young people who I have grown to love, and who do not exist yet. My nieces, my nephews, and perhaps someday my children. When I discuss education, though I have taught at a few different levels, I do not discuss it by staring at my feet. I look to the horizon, and the news here is that the Wiki is no longer at the horizon. It's at our feet. Deal with it. Oddly enough, it was Ross Gardler's response to this that got me tracking the conversation back. I know Ross from the time he spent in Trinidad and Tobago, where he tried to institute such things at the University of the West Indies - and met with success. Where he and I did not see Wikis the same way a few years ago - slight differences between strong personalities - I hope that my criticisms were constructive, because if they contained phrases like 'unfounded hope' I would certainly be ashamed of myself. You live and you learn. At any rate, you live... When we talk about adult literacy, I wonder how many professors strive to better themselves at the same rate that they hope that their students learn. Maybe that's my personal problem with a lot of professors, perhaps that's a stereotype that I have with traditional education... Perhaps I suffered under professors who did not believe in trying new things. Ahh, but the ones who did... they failed here and there, but in sharing their failures with we lowly students, they taught us more than a canned curriculum can. I can name every instructor who did this. I cannot remember those that did not. Clinging to an education system which has grown larger buildings, more administration and consistently failed to keep pace with curriculum is a problem. Today we talk of the Wiki. Some criticize the Wiki as a tool, and yet they do so without basis - claiming a lack of basis as the evidence that they themselves lack. So all I ask is that they help gather the evidence. I'd love to see where the Wiki in education has failed. And so would people who use them
RE: [DDN] FW: [NIFL-HEALTH:4627] Adult Literacy education Wiki
I see no evidence that this will help adult literacy in any large amount. At best it is an unfounded hope. Every new idea is seen by some as a solution. Alfred Bork -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Champ-Blackwell, Siobhan Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:03 AM To: DIGITALDIVIDE (Digital Divide) Subject: [DDN] FW: [NIFL-HEALTH:4627] Adult Literacy education Wiki Fyi - siobhan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Rosen Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:31 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-HEALTH:4627] Adult Literacy education Wiki NIFL-Health Colleagues, We would like to introduce you to the Adult Literacy Education Wiki. Wiki-wiki, a Hawaiian word meanimg very, very quickly, refers in the online world to a web site where you can immediately and easily add to or change text. The best-known application is the Wikipedia, a multilingual encyclopedia, created and modified daily by thousands of people across the world. We think a wiki can be a useful online environment for adult literacy practitioners, adult learner leaders, and researchers to have ongoing discussions in areas of mutual interest. The idea of having a wiki arose from planning the Meeting of the Minds research and practice conference held in Sacramento, California in December, 2004. The Adult Literacy Education(ALE) Wiki is not a replacement for electronic lists. It is a complement to, and we hope an enhancement of them. Because a wiki is an easily edited document environent, current or past electronic list discussions can be selectively copied to the wiki, continued at any time, and referenced (and linked) in future e-list discussions. For each wiki discussion topic a summary, glossary, and list of research and other references can be created. We hope the ALE Wiki will become a handy electronic reference shelf of definitions and resources for discussions which take place on adult literacy e-lists, and where one could easily find research citations, full-text studies, threaded discussions which have taken place on listservs, and other materials which are all organized around specific research topic areas and questions. It could also be an environment where researchers describe their completed and ongoing work, see how practitioners are reacting to or using their research, and see what questions and issues practitioners and adult learner leaders think are important to study. A wiki, by design, is a participatory environment. We would like to invite you to work on the ALE wiki with us. (Our motto is workers, not lurkers.) We are trying to organize this so that lots of people from the field are involved in adding/changing and editing text, but also so that in each of the areas there is a leader, a topic manager, to help keep things organized.. If you would like to visit the Adult Literacy Education Wiki, and we hope join in, you will find it at: http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Main_Page To set up a log-in account, so you can add to the ALE Wiki, go to: http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Special:Userlogin Please e-mail David ([EMAIL PROTECTED] ) if you have technical questions. We hope you will find the Adult Literacy Education Wiki as intriguing as we do, and that you will join other researchers and practitioners who have begun to experiment with it. David J. Rosen Jackie Taylor Marie Cora Marian Thacher Erik Jacobson ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] the cheap computer
Daniel, I do not think these decisions should be made on what device is cheaper, or currently more widespread, but rather, for education for all, on what devices are best for highly effective learning material. I know how to do highly adaptive tutorial material on PCs, but I do not see anyone doing it on cell phones. Alfred Bork -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel O. Escasa Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 8:46 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: RE: [DDN] the cheap computer Sabi ni Alfred noong Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:31:44 -0800: I have long argued that the digital divide is not simply a hardware problem to be solved by cheaper computers. Rather, there must be something useful for the possessor of such computers to do with them, in the native language of the user. I'll go even further, if I may. You can only make computer prices so low. I don't think you can *ever* lower a computer's price close to a low-end cell phone's. I posit that in most of the developing countries, cell phone penetration is orders of magnitude higher than that of PCs. In the Philippines, for instance, there are about 20 million cell phone subscribers out of a population of 80M -- a penetration rate of 25%. I don't see PC penetration as anywhere near 10%. Second, the PC is only one access device into the Internet. The cell phone is another. And I'm not necessarily talking about WAP-over-GPRS -- data rates are still too high for most people. What the cell phone has done in the Philippines is let more people access the Internet, even if they're not aware of that. No, they don't browse the World Wide Web, not in great numbers anyway. Instead, they request and receive data through Short Messaging Service (SMS). Having been involved in a project to provide SMS Value-Added Service (VAS), I can tell you SMS VAS users *do* use the Internet, albeit transparently. One concrete example is http://www.doctorgeorge.com.ph, in particular the Text-a-Doc service. Subscribers of Smart Telecomms send a free-form medical query to a special number, and a live doctor at the other end browses a Web page to read and reply to those queries. That's almost a live chat. Another, more prominent example, is http://www.b2bpricenow.com, which is something of an exchange far as I can tell. Suppliers register and price their goods and services on the Web, then (registered) users can request those services and goods and corresponding prices by sending a keyword to a special number. I *think* they may also close transactions through SMS but I'm not entirely sure. As an aside, I called b2bpricenow.com prominent because it's received awards and citations from international agencies, and both houses of Philippine Congress. DoctorGeorge.com's Text-A-Doc is largely unknown even here :( As to hardware pricing, a PC is approximately 4x the cost of a low-end cell phone. In regard to SMS VAS pricing, each text message costs PhP2.50, or approximately US$0.04 -- well within reach of even poorer Filipinos. No, you can't do word processing or spreadsheet calculations or presentations on a cell phone. On the other hand, all three carriers even have gateways to Friendster now. At least two have gateways to Yahoo! IM. More importantly, you *can* use SMS to get information. Point being that the PC isn't the only device for bridging the digital divide. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] the cheap computer
I have long argued that the digital divide is not simply a hardware problem to be solved by cheaper computers. Rather, there must be something useful for the possessor of such computers to do with them, in the native language of the user. My main interest is in the 'education for all' problem, not just as discussed in the recent conferences, but at all levels of learning. Solving this vital problem could lead to a solution to the digital divide problem. I am currently working on a book concerning attaining education for all. I would be happy to send information to those interested. Please write to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Alfred Bork University of California Irvine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charlie Meisch Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] the cheap computer Whether one approves of Wal-Mart's overall business model or not, we have to admit that this particular product is indicative of the larger Digital Divide problem over all. By that I mean the distribution problem: the largest providers of data services have a tough time building out the infrastructure to even give people in rural areas the option of meaningful access to the Web. Xandros had the right idea in going to a distributor/retailer like Wal-Mart given the chain's ubiquity in rural areas. But there still has to be a compelling reason for people to actually shell out the $200 for the machines, and that's also part of the issue - a part about which we've spoken before. Perhaps the question we ought to be discussing is this: how can we make the most of the availability of affordable computers in these areas? While broadband access remains something of an issue, there are still 21st Century Skills opportunities, I would think. Any thoughts? Cheers, Charlie Meisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Original Message Follows From: quot;[EMAIL PROTECTED]quot; lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],The Digital Divide Network discussion grouplt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] the cheap computer Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:01:09 -0500 Thanks for the post Carolyn. The point which I was trying to make is that the cost for computers is quickly becoming almost a quot;non-issuequot;. That, of course, is not to say that the poorest of the poor can't feed themselves- that is another issue. The concern regarding Wal-Mart needs a more substantive addressment than a post which differentiates corporate giving in the United States. Wal-Mart, in spite of all the concerns about its corporate practices continues to enjoy increasing sales, globally, particularly from persons of lower income who find the prices for food and other goods within their budget at Wal-Mart. And whether or not they share the sentiments of a faction within the US, continue to patronize Wal-Mart and bolstering its position as the world's largest retailer. If, indeed, the public at large were concerned, then there would be a response which Wal-Mart would feel financially and would have to address. That they continue to enjoy public confidence as evidenced by their financial success should give everyone on this list pause to ask WHY. And it should aks whether all the current efforts regarding the digital divide may need serious reassessment. Your raising this question should generate a serious exchange not only on DDN but GKD and the many other digital divide discussions on the Web. thoughts? tom abeles Original Message: - From: Carolyn Birden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:33:14 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] the cheap computer WalMart's prices may look tempting, but you might want to consider the following before you buy: http://www.buyblue.org/bluexmas.html Carolyn Birden At 8:19 AM -0600 12/14/04, Tom Abeles wrote: gt;Wal Mart is everywhere, even in the PRC. And now they have a gt;commercial version of what was to have been the volkscomputer gt; gt;thought this would be of interest: gt; gt;Xandros amp; Microtel Deliver $199.98 Linux Desktop to the Masses gt;http://www.linuxelectrons.com/article.php/20041209213249573 Friday, gt;December 10 2004 @ 07:30 AM gt;Xandros, the leading developer of easy-to-use Linux solutions, today announced gt;that Wal-Mart.com is carrying a fully loaded Linux desktop computer with the gt;pre-installed Xandros Desktop Operating System (OS) for only $199.98. gt;Built by Microtel and available at Wal-Mart's online store,* the new gt;desktop PC gt;offers a complete suite of pre-installed software for home, school, and small gt;office desktop use. The PC provides an affordable alternative to all other PCs gt;on the market today. The $199.98 price tag includes a free subscription to the gt;Xandros Networks news and update facility which features a huge inventory of gt;open source and commercial software
