Re: DlangIDE update
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 05:47:07 UTC, Vadim Lopatin wrote: On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 at 18:18:29 UTC, default0 wrote: Sweet! Glad you're back and working on this! Was wanting to give it a shot, but typing } on my keyboard (german layout, right-alt + 0) did not actually insert the character into the opened document, so I gave up. What is a platform? Linux with SDL? How do I reproduce it? Could you please submit a bug on github? Done! One of the things I did manage to try was putting a readln() into the standard hello-world-console-app preset. Turns out that it causes dlangide to hang up because it's not actually possible to have user input (or to configure dlangide to start the project separately so a regular console window appears). Killing the started process also was not possible since the respective option to stop debugging is still grayed out. Input hangs because running currently is just invoking of `dub run` - with input and output redirected. Output is shown in IDE message log, but for input just nothing is sent. I'm working on debugging, and as well will implement running apps w/o debugger with separate console. Sounds good! When the typical edit-compile-debug cycle works this will probably already be enough to start using it for smaller projects :-) I still haven't written much D code and my time is somewhat limited, but if there are simple tasks you need to get done, I would be glad to offer help! It would be great. Will be looking through GitHub and try to set DlangUI etc. up locally, too and see what I can do :-) Here's to hoping this IDE will keep going and turn out well :-) I think for programming language, it's big + to have native GUI library and IDE written in the same language. Adding Delphi style GUI builder could attract newbies. Yeah, also has the advantage of being able to work on DlangIDE while using DlangIDE, once it's come along some ways.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 07:12:06 UTC, Tony wrote: One thing that comes to mind to refute the contention that senescence would be insignificant at the age of 50 is notable technical achievement. If we were to list the mathematical and scientific discoveries of the past - like calculus and theory of relativity, etc. - how many would have been done by someone at the age of 50 or older? How many milestones in computing history were achieved by someone 50 or older? How many were done by someone over 40? And I think most of the aging process isn't even quality (what would most impact notable discovery) - it's quantity (that is, slower clock cycle). And companies probably have more concerns about quantity of thought than quality. There has been a significant prime number discovery made by a 50+ guy on prime number recently (on the spacing pattern between them). I can't recall his name. Alleged inventor of bitcoin is 44 years old. It is not 50+ but it is much closer than 25. Ivan Godard, behind the Mill is more than 60. I thin what you are looking at here is that youngster are more willing to take risk. When Einstein say that time is relative and ether doesn't exists, that mass and energy is that same thing and that energy exchange is quantized, he takes the risk of looking like a fool big time. But he has no reputation to loose, and he has no involvement in existing theories. Later in life, either you were not talented and most likely not made it, or you were talented and busy capitalizing and what you made younger. Later in his life, he is going to deny quatum physics, not because he has gone mad, but because the more you invest into something (relativity in his case) the harder it is to let go. That's due to cognitive dissonance.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 11:27 AM, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d-announce < digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com> wrote: > On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 07:12:06 UTC, Tony wrote: > >> One thing that comes to mind to refute the contention that senescence >> would be insignificant at the age of 50 is notable technical achievement. >> >> If we were to list the mathematical and scientific discoveries of the >> past - like calculus and theory of relativity, etc. - how many would have >> been done by someone at the age of 50 or older? How many milestones in >> computing history were achieved by someone 50 or older? How many were done >> by someone over 40? And I think most of the aging process isn't even >> quality (what would most impact notable discovery) - it's quantity (that >> is, slower clock cycle). And companies probably have more concerns about >> quantity of thought than quality. >> > > There has been a significant prime number discovery made by a 50+ guy on > prime number recently (on the spacing pattern between them). I can't recall > his name. > > Alleged inventor of bitcoin is 44 years old. It is not 50+ but it is much > closer than 25. > > Ivan Godard, behind the Mill is more than 60. > > I thin what you are looking at here is that youngster are more willing to > take risk. When Einstein say that time is relative and ether doesn't > exists, that mass and energy is that same thing and that energy exchange is > quantized, he takes the risk of looking like a fool big time. But he has no > reputation to loose, and he has no involvement in existing theories. > > Later in life, either you were not talented and most likely not made it, > or you were talented and busy capitalizing and what you made younger. > > Later in his life, he is going to deny quatum physics, not because he has > gone mad, but because the more you invest into something (relativity in his > case) the harder it is to let go. That's due to cognitive dissonance. > Yeah, its so frustrating that our emotions and concept of self drives our thoughts on any concept we contemplate. If we could blank slate our minds we would have nothing to process the concepts with either so that is no solution, best way is to contemplate many different concepts hoping to be able to process in a way that lacks prejudice. I often say to my wife that idealism and fanaticism are viruses of the mind because of this.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 07:49:58 UTC, Rory McGuire wrote: The number of scarily intelligent people aged over 60 is most likely a lot higher than the number of 25 year olds that are so. Its just the way our brains work, your brain optimises its thought processes continually, and experience is where you get that. Indeed a very complex matter. In late teens we are probably quicker and learn more easily than later in life. After 25 I don't know how much slow down there has been, but as you get older you also can narrow down which trains of thought that are promising so you use your labour more efficiently. A 20 years old is going all over the place, a 50 years old will ask more questions of what is necessary to get the job done. Which is why the army only want youngsters (<25), older people would just ask too many legitimate questions about how the army is organized... In research the lack of direction of younger people can be an advantage in terms of finding new fields (e.g. looking in the not so promising areas) at the cost of higher failure rate. The Norwegian mathematician Abel probably did his findings due to not having an advisor to guide him all the way, so he was looking at math from his own angle. But finding new fields is just a very very small part of research, although it makes people famous. So yes, there are more famous young researchers, not because they are smarter, but because they are ignorant enough to walk into new terrain and probably also because they have something to prove before they get tenure. Besides, a lot of discoveries are the result of mistakes or misunderstandings. Young people make mistakes at a higher frequency. Often a bad thing, sometimes a good thing. Although very young people learn more efficiently, we also have to remember that learning is a skill too, so I think it matters more that one learns continuously and find better ways of learning as one gets older. People who keep their brain active can learn new languages at the age of 80, and in comparison even most teens have trouble learning a new language, yet 2 year olds learn languages like crazy! So, yeah, 2 year olds are much much better at learning than any other age group. Much better. Are they smarter, than the rest of us? On some metrics they probably are. They consider everything from a fresh angle. But older people can do that too, by training and techniques. Did I learn faster at the age of 18, than at the age of 40? Yes. Did I learn new technology faster at the age of 25 than at the age of 40? No, I think I learn faster now. Not because the brain is faster, but because I don't need to learn the basics as frequently. But I notice that it is more important to stay active (keep programming) as one gets older.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 07:49:58 UTC, Rory McGuire wrote: On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Tony via Digitalmars-d-announce < digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com> wrote: [snip] One thing that comes to mind to refute the contention that senescence would be insignificant at the age of 50 is notable technical achievement. If we were to list the mathematical and scientific discoveries of the past - like calculus and theory of relativity, etc. - how many would have been done by someone at the age of 50 or older? How many milestones in computing history were achieved by someone 50 or older? How many were done by someone over 40? And I think most of the aging process isn't even quality (what would most impact notable discovery) - it's quantity (that is, slower clock cycle). And companies probably have more concerns about quantity of thought than quality. Lol not sure where you getting all this, but the average 25 year old is a dumb ass compared to the average 50 year old. However that being said the average 50 year old is a lot less likely to get excited about their work and to do something super creative / learning new things. These things are not based on their brain activity though, it has a lot more to do with social conditioning and disillusionment. There are a lot less 50 year olds that are motivated to something disruptive in their fields of experience. I'd be swayed if you could link to interviews with older scientists, mathematicians or computer scientists who said their work declined with age because they became disillusioned or they ran into social conditioning issues. The number of scarily intelligent people aged over 60 is most likely a lot higher than the number of 25 year olds that are so. Its just the way our brains work, your brain optimises its thought processes continually, and experience is where you get that. Rather than the two of us expressing opposing opinions and you loling, we should probably look at research on the matter. Unfortunately, there is some disagreement with regard to cognitive decline. Some see it as a gradual decline from early adulthood and others seeing the decline postponed until later in life. This paper titled "The myth of cognitive decline" https://mindmodeling.org/cogsci2013/papers/0230/paper0230.pdf actually appears to acknowledge and accept that speed of reasoning declines with age: "Findings from a range of psychometric tests suggest that the rates at which the mind processes information increase from infancy to young adulthood, and decline steadily thereafter (Salthouse, 2011). Increasing reaction times are a primary marker for age related cognitive decline (Deary et al, 2010), and are even considered its cause (Salthouse, 1996), yet they are puzzling." but then attributes it to the brain having to deal with more information rather than having a slower processing speed - a bloated registry, if you will. "However, age increases the rage of knowledge and skills individuals possess, which increase the overall amount of information processed in their cognitive systems. This extra processing has a cost." But an employer wouldn't care if an older worker was thinking slower because of physical decline or because they had to sift through more information.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 09:27:55 UTC, deadalnix wrote: I thin what you are looking at here is that youngster are more willing to take risk. When Einstein say that time is relative and ether doesn't exists, that mass and energy is that same thing and that energy exchange is quantized, he takes the risk of looking like a fool big time. But he has no reputation to loose, and he has no involvement in existing theories. Maybe in the field of physics, but is it possible to release things in mathematics or computer science that aren't proven at the time of their announcement? Later in life, either you were not talented and most likely not made it, or you were talented and busy capitalizing and what you made younger. That's a very good point. Capitalizing or lacking equivalent motivation.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 10:33:33 UTC, Tony wrote: On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 09:27:55 UTC, deadalnix wrote: Later in life, either you were not talented and most likely not made it, or you were talented and busy capitalizing and what you made younger. That's a very good point. Capitalizing or lacking equivalent motivation. Actually it isn't. Capitalizing is to a large extent related to superficial aspects such as connections, appearance and playing by the rules. Although some people get famous for being different, they are in the small minority. But it makes better stories and headlines.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 10:26:03 UTC, Tony wrote: I'd be swayed if you could link to interviews with older scientists, mathematicians or computer scientists who said their work declined with age because they became disillusioned or they ran into social conditioning issues. They are bogged down with teaching and administration and are at that time specialized in an established field and follow the money (research grants which generally focus on what "society needs", i.e. what is established). Academia also focus on having a tally on publishing, which unfortunately does not breed depth, but breadth. When you do a master you can basically pick up any topic and give in to your own curiosity, most people follow the same area as their master when they move towards a ph.d. So you have a source of "curious noise" at the entry level, but after that there is gravity towards the established. In order to do something new you have to both be really really curious about something and also have the time to go all the way. As you master a field the curiosity probably drops. That said, most ph.d. reports are boring. Media propagates the fairy tales which are the result of that stochastic entry level. You never hear about the 99.9% boring results.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 10:44:35 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 10:33:33 UTC, Tony wrote: On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 09:27:55 UTC, deadalnix wrote: Later in life, either you were not talented and most likely not made it, or you were talented and busy capitalizing and what you made younger. That's a very good point. Capitalizing or lacking equivalent motivation. Actually it isn't. Capitalizing is to a large extent related to superficial aspects such as connections, appearance and playing by the rules. Although some people get famous for being different, they are in the small minority. But it makes better stories and headlines. How are you defining "capitalizing"?
Re: DlangIDE update
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 09:18:37 UTC, default0 wrote: One of the things I did manage to try was putting a readln() into the standard hello-world-console-app preset. Turns out that it causes dlangide to hang up because it's not actually possible to have user input (or to configure dlangide to start the project separately so a regular console window appears). Killing the started process also was not possible since the respective option to stop debugging is still grayed out. Input hangs because running currently is just invoking of `dub run` - with input and output redirected. Output is shown in IDE message log, but for input just nothing is sent. I'm working on debugging, and as well will implement running apps w/o debugger with separate console. Sounds good! When the typical edit-compile-debug cycle works this will probably already be enough to start using it for smaller projects :-) Running in external console is implemented. Run button now starts dub build, and if build is successful executes program in external console. Stop button added. Xterm is used as external console on posix. Tested under windows and linux.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 11:04:46 UTC, Tony wrote: How are you defining "capitalizing"? Climbing the ladder. Many researchers don't want to climb the ladder (e.g. become head of department or even group leader) because it means that they spend 100% of their time on administration and none on research. So you'll see effects like having the leadership being passed around or being the result of peer pressure. Many already have 50% teaching, then a lot of overhead for administration/supervision, so maybe the time left over for actual research is 40% + spare time. Take any kind of leadership role and the research time may be swallowed by "urgent issues". Some researchers are also very conscious and probably spend more than they should on teaching which further erode available time. Another issue is that on the entry level research is more individualistic, but higher up it pays off to be in the same area as you colleges and being part of a community. So there are many reasons for people with tenure to stick to a smaller research area that they know well, but the bottomline is that if you only have 3 months to produce a quality paper then you have to stay specialized. IMO, the most interesting papers are still published by experienced researchers, only in the rare cases are their early papers the most interesting.
Re: DlangIDE update
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 09:18:37 UTC, default0 wrote: I still haven't written much D code and my time is somewhat limited, but if there are simple tasks you need to get done, I would be glad to offer help! It would be great. Will be looking through GitHub and try to set DlangUI etc. up locally, too and see what I can do :-) Added development environment setup instructions (VisualD, Mono-D) to README.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 07:12:06 +, Tony wrote: > If we were to list the mathematical and scientific discoveries of the > past - like calculus and theory of relativity, etc. - how many would > have been done by someone at the age of 50 or older? How many milestones > in computing history were achieved by someone 50 or older? How many were > done by someone over 40? And I think most of the aging process isn't > even quality (what would most impact notable discovery) - it's quantity > (that is, slower clock cycle). And companies probably have more concerns > about quantity of thought than quality. Cole 1976 showed that there was scant difference in productivity for natural scientists at the age of 30 and at the age of 50 (measured in terms of the rate of citations of published papers). It looks like the younger ones produced more work and the older ones produced better work. Specifically for mathematics, Stern 1978 observes that the number of papers produced peaks before the age of 40, but citations per paper grow significantly, so that a mathematician at the age of 55 is likely to be cited as much as one at the age of 40 and significantly more than one below 35. So unless aging suddenly got much scarier in the past four decades -- but no, you're talking about people in history, which goes back a lot more than four decades. The availability heuristic is unreliable, but JPass is available for just $20 per month. http://www.jstor.org/stable/284859?seq=1 Of course, this does reinforce the decision to hire younger software engineers. The metrics are about lines of code per day or time to implement something with not a care about software defects, which favors younger developers over older ones.
Re: DlangIDE update
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 12:10:33 UTC, Vadim Lopatin wrote: On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 09:18:37 UTC, default0 wrote: I still haven't written much D code and my time is somewhat limited, but if there are simple tasks you need to get done, I would be glad to offer help! It would be great. Will be looking through GitHub and try to set DlangUI etc. up locally, too and see what I can do :-) Added development environment setup instructions (VisualD, Mono-D) to README. Thanks for the instructions! I followed them, but when I tried to build in Visual Studio, I got the following error: Building Debug\dlangide.exe... C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\src\dlangui\graphics\images.d(34): Error: module io is in file 'dlib\image\io\io.d' which cannot be read import path[0] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\src import path[1] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\3rdparty import path[2] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\3rdparty\libpng\source import path[3] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\DerelictGL3\source import path[4] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\DerelictUtil\source import path[5] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\DerelictFT\source import path[6] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\DerelictSDL2\source import path[7] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\de_image\source\interfaces import path[8] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\de_image\source\png import path[9] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\dlib import path[10] = C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\libdparse\src import path[11] = C:\D\dmd2\windows\bin\..\..\src\phobos import path[12] = C:\D\dmd2\windows\bin\..\..\src\druntime\import Building Debug\dlangide.exe failed! I checked the import path[9] it listed, and relative to that path, there is the dlib/image/io/io.d file (ie in "C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\dlib\dlib\image\io\io.d"). I'm not sure why it doesn't find that file, despite listing a path that contains this file in the imports (and has the necessary permissions for reading it, and the file obviously not being used by anything). I'm using Visual D. Pretty stumped on that right now, building with dub obviously works, and I suppose I could then attach the debugger from within Visual Studio, but that's not a workflow I'm looking forward to (nor do I know if it works the way I hope)...
Re: DlangIDE update
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 15:31:46 UTC, default0 wrote: On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 12:10:33 UTC, Vadim Lopatin Thanks for the instructions! I followed them, but when I tried to build in Visual Studio, I got the following error: C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\src\dlangui\graphics\images.d(34): Error: module io is in file 'dlib\image\io\io.d' which cannot be read ... I checked the import path[9] it listed, and relative to that path, there is the dlib/image/io/io.d file (ie in "C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\DCode\DlangUI\..\dlib\dlib\image\io\io.d"). I'm not sure why it doesn't find that file, despite listing a path that contains this file in the imports (and has the necessary permissions for reading it, and the file obviously not being used by anything). I'm using Visual D. Pretty stumped on that right now, building with dub obviously works, and I suppose I could then attach the debugger from within Visual Studio, but that's not a workflow I'm looking forward to (nor do I know if it works the way I hope)... Looks like you have opened obsolete project. Deps should be in dlangui/deps, not in dlangui/.. Probably, you have used old build instructions. See at end of dlangide's README.md Open dlangui/dlangui-msvc.sln
Re: DlangIDE update
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 16:26:14 UTC, Vadim Lopatin wrote: On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 15:31:46 UTC, default0 wrote: Looks like you have opened obsolete project. Deps should be in dlangui/deps, not in dlangui/.. Probably, you have used old build instructions. See at end of dlangide's README.md Open dlangui/dlangui-msvc.sln I did open that solution (I even double checked I got the right one). So no, that's not it, I'm afraid :/
Re: DlangIDE update
I should mention that the dlangui\.. is some build artifact, too, the files are in dlangui\deps locally (it probably tries to shorten the path name?)
Re: DlangIDE update
On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 at 18:18:29 UTC, default0 wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 at 15:58:43 UTC, Vadim Lopatin
wrote:
Hello,
DlangIDE is getting close to usable.
DlangIDE is and IDE for D programming language written in D
using DlangUI library.
Sweet! Glad you're back and working on this!
Was wanting to give it a shot, but typing } on my keyboard
(german layout, right-alt + 0) did not actually insert the
character into the opened document, so I gave up.
As a European, I have a secret trick about keyboards, that I "got
for free" with my Kaypro-II computer (the blue-key version), back
in 1984.
Always use the en-US keyboard when programming. Period!
Keys, such as []{}\/?|*$ etc. are in very handy and quick places.
The inventors of programming languages and operating systems have
put the most used characters in easy-to-reach keys. -- And on top
of it, all of the funky key combinations just work.
On Linux, I merely press both Shifts to temporarily switch to my
native language, which I only need for text strings, nothing
else. I'd expect Windows and Mac to provide something similar.
After a couple of weeks, you'll never look back.
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 11:04:46 UTC, Tony wrote: On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 10:44:35 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 10:33:33 UTC, Tony wrote: On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 09:27:55 UTC, deadalnix wrote: Later in life, either you were not talented and most likely not made it, or you were talented and busy capitalizing and what you made younger. That's a very good point. Capitalizing or lacking equivalent motivation. Actually it isn't. Capitalizing is to a large extent related to superficial aspects such as connections, appearance and playing by the rules. Although some people get famous for being different, they are in the small minority. But it makes better stories and headlines. How are you defining "capitalizing"? Once you made it big with something, you become a reference in that area. You can continue to work on it, producing various incremental improvement, polishing and so on. You gain influence on youngster and can have impact that way. You are usually in a respectable position. You also have a lot to loose. If you go into some stupid new project you can end up looking like a moron if it doesn't pan out, while, by doing nothing or keeping improving what made you big in the first place, you do just fine. Once you are amongst the top at something, why would you throw it all away to start something new ? Some will do it, but overall it is uncommon. On the other hand, incentive are just not the same for youngsters.
Re: DlangIDE update
On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 at 19:24:19 UTC, default0 wrote: I should mention that the dlangui\.. is some build artifact, too, the files are in dlangui\deps locally (it probably tries to shorten the path name?) I found that I forgot to change project import paths for all configurations. I used Debug/X64 only so did not notice it. You probably using Debug/win32. Fixed. Project file is updated.
