Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 16:37:29 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 24/12/15 02:08, Walter Bright wrote: This has resurfaced on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xya5v/so_you_want_to_write_your_own_language/ In the comments, about the cluttered syntax. For the attributes, due to legacy reasons, it seems like D got all the defaults wrong. System instead of safe, mutable instead of immutable, not pure instead of pure and so on. We might not be able to get rid of any attributes but if some of these defaults were different perhaps it would not be necessary to use so many attributes all the time. I know that many here don't agree but personally I think the language could have less syntax it had AST macros. Some syntax that is built-in now could be moved to library code in the form of macros. I agree. As we all know, these choices have much to do with trying not to disturb all the welcome people from C/C++. But now that D is becoming a more self-confident language, and a larger percentage of newcomers to D have other backgrounds than C/C++, it is becoming increasingly important to have the language "do the Right Thing" from the outset. By now the former C/C++ programmer has to learn an entirely new language, as compared to 5 or especially 10 years ago, when D could (well, at least sarcastically) be described as just another Dialect of C. Today, D is a proud and strong, and not even a new, language, and the Default choices of system/safe, (im)mutable, (not)safe, etc., should be based only on choices that are obvious when we look at D now and in the foreseeable future. Not on what the past was.
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On Friday, 25 December 2015 at 02:56:31 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/24/2015 5:25 AM, Joakim wrote: Ah, I see you have it here instead: https://www.digitalmars.com/articles/b90.html Any idea why it's not indexed? It's in the menu on the left. Never mind, I looked some more and it is in google's index. When I initially tried googling the phrase "perhaps you should consider taking up a career as a chartered accountant instead of writing a language" from that piece, it only turned up the spam site, same when I try it now. I'm used to Google being pretty good at finding specific phrases like that, so I thought the article wasn't indexed. Guess google is slipping...
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On 12/24/2015 5:25 AM, Joakim wrote: Ah, I see you have it here instead: https://www.digitalmars.com/articles/b90.html Any idea why it's not indexed? It's in the menu on the left.
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 16:37:29 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 24/12/15 02:08, Walter Bright wrote: This has resurfaced on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xya5v/so_you_want_to_write_your_own_language/ In the comments, about the cluttered syntax. For the attributes, due to legacy reasons, it seems like D got all the defaults wrong. System instead of safe, mutable instead of immutable, not pure instead of pure and so on. We might not be able to get rid of any attributes but if some of these defaults were different perhaps it would not be necessary to use so many attributes all the time. I know that many here don't agree but personally I think the language could have less syntax it had AST macros. Some syntax that is built-in now could be moved to library code in the form of macros. I think it depends a lot on your personal preference. For instance, I am always annoyed about immutable types being forced upon me (okay, they wouldn't be forced, but I'd have to work to get rid of them). I like mutable types. Regarding the AST macros - I simply don't know enough about how that works in practice to have an opinion. Java doesn't have that stuff, so I don't know what I am missing :-)
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 13:03:03 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/23/2015 7:35 PM, Joakim wrote: On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 01:08:38 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Time to give your old articles a better home, I think, assuming you have the copyright or can get it. https://www.digitalmars.com/articles/b89.html Firefox gives me this: www.digitalmars.com uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for digitalmars.com (Error code: ssl_error_bad_cert_domain) And I believe this is an old problem.
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On 24/12/15 02:08, Walter Bright wrote: This has resurfaced on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xya5v/so_you_want_to_write_your_own_language/ In the comments, about the cluttered syntax. For the attributes, due to legacy reasons, it seems like D got all the defaults wrong. System instead of safe, mutable instead of immutable, not pure instead of pure and so on. We might not be able to get rid of any attributes but if some of these defaults were different perhaps it would not be necessary to use so many attributes all the time. I know that many here don't agree but personally I think the language could have less syntax it had AST macros. Some syntax that is built-in now could be moved to library code in the form of macros. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 01:08:38 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: This has resurfaced on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xya5v/so_you_want_to_write_your_own_language/ Hi Walther, interesting article. I guess it's like with entrepreneurship in general. It's a lot of work and lots of people will tell that you don't have what it takes, it won't work, you can't beat the big guys etc. But, as you progress and they see the results, more and more of them change their "no" to "maybe", "hmm..." and "yes". I am working on a cloud project where we will also need to implement a little language that can run inside our cloud. The constraints are quite different from a general purpose language in terms of compilation / interpretation time, memory usage etc. so the design will probably be different than e.g. D. I am looking forward to this project. Yes, it's geeky, and yes, it will probably "suck" in the first versions - but eventually we will get there, and it will work just fine.
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 13:21:45 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 13:03:03 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/23/2015 7:35 PM, Joakim wrote: [...] https://www.digitalmars.com/articles/b89.html That's a different article, the Gimli one, not the one with practical advice. Also, I get a certificate error when I click on it, because it doesn't apply for the www subdomain. Ah, I see you have it here instead: https://www.digitalmars.com/articles/b90.html Any idea why it's not indexed?
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On 12/23/2015 7:35 PM, Joakim wrote: On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 01:08:38 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: This has resurfaced on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xya5v/so_you_want_to_write_your_own_language/ Will you be moving that article and your other work to your own domain? One reddit commenter says that drdobbs link crashed his chrome tab, I've seen another drdobbs article start repeatedly reloading in a loop, and a Google search for a random phrase from this article doesn't even turn up this link but some spam site called impythonist that copy-pasted your article. Time to give your old articles a better home, I think, assuming you have the copyright or can get it. https://www.digitalmars.com/articles/b89.html
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On 12/24/2015 3:43 AM, Jakob Jenkov wrote: I am working on a cloud project where we will also need to implement a little language that can run inside our cloud. The constraints are quite different from a general purpose language in terms of compilation / interpretation time, memory usage etc. so the design will probably be different than e.g. D. I am looking forward to this project. Yes, it's geeky, and yes, it will probably "suck" in the first versions - but eventually we will get there, and it will work just fine. I wish you the best for it.
Re: So You Want To Write Your Own Language
On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 13:03:03 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/23/2015 7:35 PM, Joakim wrote: On Thursday, 24 December 2015 at 01:08:38 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: This has resurfaced on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xya5v/so_you_want_to_write_your_own_language/ Will you be moving that article and your other work to your own domain? One reddit commenter says that drdobbs link crashed his chrome tab, I've seen another drdobbs article start repeatedly reloading in a loop, and a Google search for a random phrase from this article doesn't even turn up this link but some spam site called impythonist that copy-pasted your article. Time to give your old articles a better home, I think, assuming you have the copyright or can get it. https://www.digitalmars.com/articles/b89.html That's a different article, the Gimli one, not the one with practical advice. Also, I get a certificate error when I click on it, because it doesn't apply for the www subdomain.
