Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 at 17:01:12 UTC, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: Hi everyone! For a while I was looking for a computer vision library in D on the web, but haven't found any. There were few libraries I found, providing some basic image processing functionality, but none that could be remotely compared to opencv or other similar open source computer vision toolkits present for other languages. Surely for a year, even maybe two, this has been stopping me to switch completely to D from C/C++. [...] I know it is a little late but I have just started this project https://github.com/aferust/opencvd
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Thursday, 28 April 2016 at 11:50:55 UTC, Edwin van Leeuwen wrote: On Thursday, 28 April 2016 at 11:32:25 UTC, Michael wrote: And I would also like to see some more scientific libraries make it into D. Though I understand that including it in the standard library can cause issues, it would be nice to at least get some Linear Algebra libraries in experimental or over with the rest of the science libraries. As I understand it that is part of the goal of mir: https://code.dlang.org/packages/mir Not sure if you were aware, but there is also a group with the aim to promote scientific dlang work: https://gitter.im/DlangScience/public I've seen the mir project and it looks promising. I'm also aware of Dlang science and I hope that it gains some support.
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Thursday, 28 April 2016 at 11:32:25 UTC, Michael wrote: And I would also like to see some more scientific libraries make it into D. Though I understand that including it in the standard library can cause issues, it would be nice to at least get some Linear Algebra libraries in experimental or over with the rest of the science libraries. As I understand it that is part of the goal of mir: https://code.dlang.org/packages/mir Not sure if you were aware, but there is also a group with the aim to promote scientific dlang work: https://gitter.im/DlangScience/public
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Thursday, 21 April 2016 at 18:47:46 UTC, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: Nice point about the Fortran, and also about the C++. :) I'd have to say I'm convinced - if there's a vote about such module joining Phobos, count me in! :) But really, when you look at it - the ndslice has made it to the Phobos, now it's probably natural to have some more extensive use of it in the standard library. Linear algebra stuff could be build nicely on top of the ndslice, you agree? Perhaps it's a bit late to add to the original conversation, but I believe: https://github.com/DerelictOrg would be the ideal place to host C bindings to OpenCV if that was actually the plan. I didn't realise, as somebody suggested, that they were planning to remove their own C bindings for OpenCV which is pretty sad. And I would also like to see some more scientific libraries make it into D. Though I understand that including it in the standard library can cause issues, it would be nice to at least get some Linear Algebra libraries in experimental or over with the rest of the science libraries.
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Thursday, 21 April 2016 at 16:13:31 UTC, Bill Baxter wrote: Fortran has some linear algebra functions in the standard library. :-) Java and many other modern languages are pretty much actively hostile to doing numerical computation, so including a linear algebra package in the standard library of those languages would just highlight how bad they are at it. C++ has a tradition of not having a standard library for anything you might actually need to get work done, so I wouldn't follow their example. --bb Nice point about the Fortran, and also about the C++. :) I'd have to say I'm convinced - if there's a vote about such module joining Phobos, count me in! :) But really, when you look at it - the ndslice has made it to the Phobos, now it's probably natural to have some more extensive use of it in the standard library. Linear algebra stuff could be build nicely on top of the ndslice, you agree?
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:26 PM, rikki cattermole via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: > On 20/04/2016 7:46 PM, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: > >> On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 06:14:58 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote: >> >>> I was thinking std.math.linalg kinda seems like the right place once >>> std.math is split up. >>> There is an isolated one other than gfm.math. gl3n but I don't have >>> permission to relicense to Boost. Its mostly ready unfortunately. >>> >> >> I agree it sounds nice to have linalg package in the standard library. >> Although I'm still not sure about it - I've never seen such package in >> any other language's standard library. I'm not saying it's not right, >> just a bit strange to me. >> > Fortran has some linear algebra functions in the standard library. :-) Java and many other modern languages are pretty much actively hostile to doing numerical computation, so including a linear algebra package in the standard library of those languages would just highlight how bad they are at it. C++ has a tradition of not having a standard library for anything you might actually need to get work done, so I wouldn't follow their example. --bb
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On 20/04/2016 7:46 PM, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 06:14:58 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote: I was thinking std.math.linalg kinda seems like the right place once std.math is split up. There is an isolated one other than gfm.math. gl3n but I don't have permission to relicense to Boost. Its mostly ready unfortunately. I agree it sounds nice to have linalg package in the standard library. Although I'm still not sure about it - I've never seen such package in any other language's standard library. I'm not saying it's not right, just a bit strange to me. I only need matrices and vectors in Phobos. Whey do I want them? Simple. I want windowing in Phobos. Which just so happens to have contexts such as OpenGL, Vulkan and DirectX. Why does that matter? window.size * projMatrix is why. Making things just work without extra work. And yes, Java does have a definition in its standard lib for Point which is what I need. Its just better to unify instead of separating it out.
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 19:53:27 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2016-04-20 06:31, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: I've given this a lot of thought. I use OpenCV daily on the job, and I'm very familiar with it. I too believe it would probably be smarter, faster and safer to wrap its C interface with D, from the user's point of view. https://github.com/jacob-carlborg/dstep Is it even safe to depend on currently unmaintained C interface? http://answers.opencv.org/question/17546/opencv-will-drop-c-api-support-soon/
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On 2016-04-20 06:31, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: I've given this a lot of thought. I use OpenCV daily on the job, and I'm very familiar with it. I too believe it would probably be smarter, faster and safer to wrap its C interface with D, from the user's point of view. https://github.com/jacob-carlborg/dstep -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 07:43:01 UTC, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: Sound great! Although I'm far from implementing methods that use optimization techniques for dcv, I'll be sure to remember this. Maybe you should push the solution to github and have other people take a look? hopefully at the weekend. I want to tidy up first...
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 07:13:44 UTC, xenon325 wrote: Great project, good luck! A minor note. Any specific reason, you've chosen MIT license over Boost ? AFAICT they are practically identical, but Boost is more popular in this community, so it would be easier in the future to exchange code between your project and dlang-science, for example. -Alexander Hey Alexander, thanks! I chose the MIT at first, but I've realized since then it would be more appropriate to license it under Boost. I will change it to boost for sure. Thanks for the suggestion!
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 06:14:58 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote: I was thinking std.math.linalg kinda seems like the right place once std.math is split up. There is an isolated one other than gfm.math. gl3n but I don't have permission to relicense to Boost. Its mostly ready unfortunately. I agree it sounds nice to have linalg package in the standard library. Although I'm still not sure about it - I've never seen such package in any other language's standard library. I'm not saying it's not right, just a bit strange to me.
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 06:10:50 UTC, tost wrote: On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 04:31:33 UTC, Relja I have an implementation of BFGS in D (except [open]BLAS :). BFGS is an algorithm for unconstrained optimization of nonlinear smooth functions. It is NOT L-BFGS and requires O(n*n) memory for optimizing f: R^n -> R. The linesearch may be useful to implement other algorithms. Sound great! Although I'm far from implementing methods that use optimization techniques for dcv, I'll be sure to remember this. Maybe you should push the solution to github and have other people take a look?
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
Great project, good luck! A minor note. Any specific reason, you've chosen MIT license over Boost ? AFAICT they are practically identical, but Boost is more popular in this community, so it would be easier in the future to exchange code between your project and dlang-science, for example. -Alexander
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On 20/04/2016 4:49 PM, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 04:37:10 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote: On the note of linear algebra. Would you be willing to improve gfm:math (or start from scratch I don't really care too much) for Phobos inclusion? Frankly, I didn't know about the gfm project - it seems nice! About the math module, I'm not really sure how (or where) it would fit into Phobos? Seems to me that such module really should be kept as a library. Isn't there a isolated 3D math library present in dub? Anyways, I'll look into it more closely when I find time! I was thinking std.math.linalg kinda seems like the right place once std.math is split up. There is an isolated one other than gfm.math. gl3n but I don't have permission to relicense to Boost. Its mostly ready unfortunately. Also how much do you know about color theory? Manu really needs help to get his color work to support blending (its mostly time thing really) and that would really help since its meant for Phobos. I've given it only a quick look just now, and it seems great! - I'll definitely look into it! Please!
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 04:31:33 UTC, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: I'm interested in contributing towards parts that involve machine learning/numerical optimisation. I have written some of my own CV/ML programs with D in the past, but none of them are particularly well engineered since they were all intended for just my own use. That's great, thanks Henry! As I've noted above, I think it would be wise to keep modules like ML and optimization apart from this library, and to integrate dcv with them through ndslice. Maybe it's more likely that you could contribute to DlangScience's SVM libray with those parts? But any of your previous CV experience is more than welcome for DCV - I'll contact you on the github so we could discuss this further, hope that's ok. I have an implementation of BFGS in D (except [open]BLAS :). BFGS is an algorithm for unconstrained optimization of nonlinear smooth functions. It is NOT L-BFGS and requires O(n*n) memory for optimizing f: R^n -> R. The linesearch may be useful to implement other algorithms. It works fine for me, but needs some refactoring. Given existing bindings for nlopt: would this be useful? If so, I start the refactoring. For now, there are no benchmarks, but it is definitely faster/fewer iterations than optim(method="BFGS") in R and the algorithm should be better than the version in GSL (if n is not too large, GSL uses some kind of L-BFGS).
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 at 04:37:10 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote: On the note of linear algebra. Would you be willing to improve gfm:math (or start from scratch I don't really care too much) for Phobos inclusion? Frankly, I didn't know about the gfm project - it seems nice! About the math module, I'm not really sure how (or where) it would fit into Phobos? Seems to me that such module really should be kept as a library. Isn't there a isolated 3D math library present in dub? Anyways, I'll look into it more closely when I find time! Also how much do you know about color theory? Manu really needs help to get his color work to support blending (its mostly time thing really) and that would really help since its meant for Phobos. I've given it only a quick look just now, and it seems great! - I'll definitely look into it!
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
Hey guys, thank you all for responding! Standard modules for color conversion already exists. See for instance That's awesome, thanks! - I'll look into it! Wouldn't it be easier to just write bindings to C interface of OpenCV, or make a thin D-style wrapper over that API, and use a proven widely supported computer vision library rather than try to reinvent the wheel? I've given this a lot of thought. I use OpenCV daily on the job, and I'm very familiar with it. I too believe it would probably be smarter, faster and safer to wrap its C interface with D, from the user's point of view. The reason why I chose not to do it is it's complexity - OpenCV has everything implemented/integrated inside - linear algebra, machine learning, optimization and all the other submodules that are needed for cv. In the dcv project, I'd really like to rely on third party libraries for such functionality - actualy I was encouraged and inspired to do it because of DlangScience guys. I'm hopping that scid and other such libraries would get a interface with ndslice in time, which is the reason I chose to use it as main array structure in the library. I believe (as many do I'm sure) that through the ndslice, D would get numeric ecosystem nice and well integrated as python, which I think would be a great success for the language. So the long story short - we could build a opencv wrapper, but here I wanted to start building something that would more nicely fit with DlangScience and other D libraries. You've got a bad @trusted here Thanks - I'll fix it and try to learn bit more about @trusted! I am happy to see that you use ndslice. We start to build numeric library for science and machine learning. SVM, which is used in CV is in out TODO list. You are welcome for feature request and for contributing. Hey Ilya! The text above tells that I've been closely following your work, and that I hope ndslice plays important part in D's numeric future. I will of course watch the SVM and other such projects from you guys, and will contribute whenever I can - thanks a lot for your effort! I'm interested in contributing towards parts that involve machine learning/numerical optimisation. I have written some of my own CV/ML programs with D in the past, but none of them are particularly well engineered since they were all intended for just my own use. That's great, thanks Henry! As I've noted above, I think it would be wise to keep modules like ML and optimization apart from this library, and to integrate dcv with them through ndslice. Maybe it's more likely that you could contribute to DlangScience's SVM libray with those parts? But any of your previous CV experience is more than welcome for DCV - I'll contact you on the github so we could discuss this further, hope that's ok.
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On the note of linear algebra. Would you be willing to improve gfm:math (or start from scratch I don't really care too much) for Phobos inclusion? Its one of the things I need for my work e.g. windowing + image. Also how much do you know about color theory? Manu really needs help to get his color work to support blending (its mostly time thing really) and that would really help since its meant for Phobos.
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 at 17:01:12 UTC, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: Hi everyone! For a while I was looking for a computer vision library in D on the web, but haven't found any. There were few libraries I found, providing some basic image processing functionality, but none that could be remotely compared to opencv or other similar open source computer vision toolkits present for other languages. Surely for a year, even maybe two, this has been stopping me to switch completely to D from C/C++. [...] I'm interested in contributing towards parts that involve machine learning/numerical optimisation. I have written some of my own CV/ML programs with D in the past, but none of them are particularly well engineered since they were all intended for just my own use.
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 at 17:01:12 UTC, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: Hi everyone! For a while I was looking for a computer vision library in D on the web, but haven't found any. There were few libraries I found, providing some basic image processing functionality, but none that could be remotely compared to opencv or other similar open source computer vision toolkits present for other languages. Surely for a year, even maybe two, this has been stopping me to switch completely to D from C/C++. Anyhow, lately I've started working on such library [1]. The plan at first was to implement the most basic computer vision algorithms, on top of which other more complex algorithms could be built on. So far, I've mostly had experience with feature correspondence, optical flow and stereo vision, so those would probably be the first few modules I'd implement. But I was really hopping to find other computer vision people in the D community, that would like the idea and help out. I'm not well experienced in D, and also It's fair to say that I'm not experienced well enough in computer vision area to take on an undertaking such as writing this library alone. So I feel it's evident that I'd need some help, to make this library usable to other computer vision scientists and engineers. Is there anyone who would like to join me? Cheers, Relja [1] https://github.com/ljubobratovicrelja/dcv Hi Relja, I am happy to see that you use ndslice. We start to build numeric library for science and machine learning. SVM, which is used in CV is in out TODO list. You are welcome for feature request and for contributing. https://github.com/DlangScience/mir Best regards, Ilya
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On 19.04.2016 19:01, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: [1] https://github.com/ljubobratovicrelja/dcv You've got a bad @trusted here: https://github.com/ljubobratovicrelja/dcv/blob/3b7e4908bfb535536f4b71862239ee071d22461d/source/dcv/core/algorithm.d#L23 You're trusting Range's empty, front, and popFront, but they may be unsafe. You're also trusting arbitrary code that's passed in via comparator.
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 at 17:01:12 UTC, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: Hi everyone! For a while I was looking for a computer vision library in D on the web, but haven't found any. There were few libraries I found, providing some basic image processing functionality, but none that could be remotely compared to opencv or other similar open source computer vision toolkits present for other languages. Surely for a year, even maybe two, this has been stopping me to switch completely to D from C/C++. OpenCV has a C interface. Wouldn't it be easier to just write bindings to C interface of OpenCV, or make a thin D-style wrapper over that API, and use a proven widely supported computer vision library rather than try to reinvent the wheel?
Re: Computer Vision Library in D
On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 at 17:01:12 UTC, Relja Ljubobratovic wrote: [1] https://github.com/ljubobratovicrelja/dcv Standard modules for color conversion already exists. See for instance https://github.com/TurkeyMan/color https://github.com/adamdruppe/arsd/blob/master/color.d Great that you've made compatible with ndslice!
