[digitalradio] Re: [multipsk] Re: Tests in ARQ FAE

2007-09-29 Thread Steinar Aanesland
Hi Patrick,

What about trying 10.136,500 later this evening ?
The 30m is a lovely band free from contest qrm .

73 de LA5VNA Steinar


Patrick Lindecker skrev:

 Hello to all,
  
 As there is a WW RTTY contest, the 14109.5 frequency is and will not
 be free. So this ARQ FAE test will be done another day.
  
 73
 Patrick
  

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Patrick Lindecker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
 *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2007 11:21 PM
 *Subject:* Tests in ARQ FAE

 Hello to all,

 I will be QRV for tests to-morrow saturday morning in 14109.5 KHz
 USB at 10h00 UTC, for the ones interested. I will call CQ in ARQ
 FAE up to 10h30 UTC.

 A 4.4.2 Multipsk test version in a ZIP test package is available
 in my site. It contains the Multipsk test version (with ARQ FAE
 bugs fixed).
 http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_22_09_2007.ZIP
 http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_22_09_2007.ZIP

 Paste this adress in your Internet Explorer or equivalent.
 Download the file.
 Create a tempory folder (C:\TEST, for example), unzip the file in
 it and start C:\TEST\Multipsk.exe (the auxiliary files will be
 created automatically).

 73

 Patrick

  




Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

2007-09-29 Thread Rick
If the S/N ratios are measuring above the noise, the numbers indicate a 
very good link. As I have found out the hard way, when we tested SCAMP, 
it was not easy to even maintain 10 dB above noise. I am not clear on 
the amount of data you are sending as it appeared to be used more as a 
chat mode? Or did you send large files too?

Did the path drop out rather suddenly? The S/N levels seemed to be 
holding up quite well. If you had switched to Olivia, MFSK16, etc., do 
you think you could have continued communicating?

The 8PSK ALE modes are the same or very similar waveforms to what is 
used in RFSM2400 and the advantage of PC-ALE is that it now supports CAT 
PTT switching which is something I expect in a modern digital program.

When I use the term ALE, I am mostly referring to the various modulation 
schemes as one thing. I personally have minimal interest in the Link 
Establishment part of ALE as I don't see this as being used much except 
for some longer distance alerting on HF for sudden emergencies. What I 
do see more useful is that the modulation schemes are available as a 
more open standard and can compete with Pactor modes.

The fastest modes in RFSM are not as fast as the fastest modes in ALE 
since they can go about double that speed but do require ISB I think and 
that will not be used on HF amateur radio bands. Again, maybe we need to 
change the terminology to the appropriate MIL-STD or STANAG such as we 
do with Multipsk calling the slow speed 8FSK125 waveform 141A?

73,

Rick, KV9U








Les Keppie wrote:
 Hi Rick
 Yes relative S/N reports are given for each paket - but what
 they relate to is any ones guess and since I have no really good test 
 equipment that would do this cant really answer - but yes good data can 
 still be passed with signal levels just above 0db according to what
 we see - and the higher the S/N R the faster speeds can be acheived
 as you should see from the email I sent it is adaptive in speed to the 
 S/N R report it gets back from the receiving station
 If you study the logs I sent you can see it changing speed to adapt to 
 the changing S/N R reports it gets
 It keeps a record of all exchanges it makes (except the actual data)
 in four seperate logs

 No I havent  tried the faster Ale modes - whilst I have PC-Ale running 
 on my computer I do not fancy it all that much
 Ale may well be good at finding openings at various times on various 
 frequencies but mostly they are too poor and too short to pass much 
 useful data anyway - and to get decent thruput of data using a 
 comparable waveform it probably requires similar S/N R figures as RFSM8000

 Using Amateur bandwith- (ie.  the nonstandard mode in RFSM8000) the
 maximum capable speed is  bits per second which is quite a bit
 faster than that of Ale

 I will attach all four logs to cover this mornings test transfers 
 between  VK2DSG and TEST4 -
 You can now work out if you think it works

 The tests were done on 7196 usb over a distance of 400 klm
 TEST4 was using 200 watts and I using 100 watts pep

 Band faded out at end with no transfer possible
 Regards
 Les

   


Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

2007-09-29 Thread Les Keppie
Rick wrote:
 If the S/N ratios are measuring above the noise, the numbers indicate a 
 very good link. As I have found out the hard way, when we tested SCAMP, 
 it was not easy to even maintain 10 dB above noise. I am not clear on 
 the amount of data you are sending as it appeared to be used more as a 
 chat mode? Or did you send large files too?

I DONT THINK YOU LOOKED AT THE FILE SIZES AND THE TRANSFER TIMES
OF THE FILES LISTED BELOW   READ ALL OF BELOW THROUGH
FOR FILE SIZES AND TIMES TAKEN(Copied from previous email)

Connecting to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
RFSM-8000, version 0.508, user license: BETA-TESTER - 29/09/2007 - 
11:19:09 AM
Maximum supported connection speed - 8000 bit/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
Connected to 'TEST4' - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
'TEST4' accept FTP-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
'TEST4' accept MAIL-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:20:10 AM
File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 173 sec, average 
speed 1322 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:23:20 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00023.jpg', size 39781 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:24:18 AM
File 'ATT00023.jpg' received succesfully, all time 259 sec, average 
speed 1225 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:28:55 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00011.jpg', size 16126 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:29:40 AM
File 'ATT00011.jpg' received succesfully, all time 45 sec, average speed 
2846 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:30:42 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00020.jpg', size 35064 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:31:37 AM
File 'ATT00020.jpg' received succesfully, all time 257 sec, average 
speed 1090 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:11 AM
'TEST4' request to read download directory 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
Request for sending file 'filelist' to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
Sending file 'filelist', size 643 bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 
11:36:29 AM
File 'filelist' sended succesfully, all time 14 sec, average speed 350 
bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:44 AM
'TEST4' request to get file 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT\#70726153230- de 
VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:47 AM
Request for sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' to 
'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:48 AM
Sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg', size 67971 
bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:38:09 AM
File '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' sended succesfully, all 
time 405 sec, average speed 1342 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:44:54 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:45:36 AM
File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 90 sec, average speed 
2531 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:47:24 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00035.jpg', size 32482 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:48:12 AM
File 'ATT00035.jpg' received succesfully, all time 117 sec, average 
speed 2214 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:50:26 AM
Receiving file 'Hi-Q Hat + Hot Rodz addition.JPG', size 1089463 bytes, 
from 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:51:39 AM

If you look at the transfer times you can see they go up and down
in relation to band conditions

 
 Did the path drop out rather suddenly? The S/N levels seemed to be 
 holding up quite well. If you had switched to Olivia, MFSK16, etc., do 
 you think you could have continued communicating?

Yes the path did drop out completely - and we maybe would have been able 
to continue with Olivia  - but of course it would only have been good 
enough to chat - and maybe small service messages
 
 The 8PSK ALE modes are the same or very similar waveforms to what is 
 used in RFSM2400 and the advantage of PC-ALE is that it now supports CAT 
 PTT switching which is something I expect in a modern digital program.

Read capabilities of RFSM8000 below
 
 When I use the term ALE, I am mostly referring to the various modulation 
 schemes as one thing. I personally have minimal interest in the Link 
 Establishment part of ALE as I don't see this as being used much except 
 for some longer distance alerting on HF for sudden emergencies. What I 
 do see more useful is that the modulation schemes are available as a 
 more open standard and can compete with Pactor modes.

The Freeware version of RFSDM2400 working at max speed of 3200 bits per 
second is available to all
 
 The fastest modes in RFSM are not as fast as the fastest modes in ALE 
 since they can go about double that speed but do require ISB I think and 
 that will not be used on HF amateur radio bands. 

The fastest speed avail to registered users - using the
non standard mode  (.3 TO 2.7 KHZ will be  bits per second and for 
those that can use the .3 to 3.3 khz version will be 8000 bits per second

Again, maybe we need to
 change the terminology to the appropriate MIL-STD or STANAG such as we 
 do with Multipsk calling the slow speed 8FSK125 waveform 141A?
 
 73,
 
 Rick, KV9U
 


Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

2007-09-29 Thread Andrew O'Brien
So, Rick...am I correct in assuming RFSM is legal in the USA if you
got to the image sub-bands ?


Re: [digitalradio] 30 Meter PropNet Weekend October 6/7

2007-09-29 Thread Rick
Is this 30 meter beacon activity legal?

Can you reference where Part 97 permits this here in the U.S. below 28.0 
MHz?

Appreciate your help in understanding this.

73,

Rick, KV9U


Don wrote:
 Please join us to promote 30m PSK and Propagation Study on 30 meters 
 (PropNet anchor freq= 10.1395 USB PSK +1500 and 30m PSK call 
 freq=10.140 USB).  This event will be the weekend of October 6th  7th 
 (z 10/6/07 -Sat until 2359z 10/7/07 -Sun).  Any station welcome to 
 participate be it a PropNet PSK Beacon (tx  rx) or a PropNet `lurker 
 mode' (rx only).  SWL stations or others not wanting to be a beacon (tx 
  rx)  please note PropNet has `lurker mode' (rx only) function so 
 anyone can participate.  Please go here and download and try PropNet 
 and get on 30 meters October 6th  7th:

 http://www.propnet.org/
 http://www.n7yg.net/propnetpsk/main.html
 http://www.n7yg.net/propnetpsk/download.html
 http://www.n7yg.net/propnetpsk/faq.html

 de kb9umt Don – promoting 30 meter digital activity (30m our only low 
 power digital band)
 http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/30meterPSKGroup/
 http://www.30meterdigital.com

   


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[digitalradio] 30 Meter PropNet Weekend October 6/7

2007-09-29 Thread Don
Please join us to promote 30m PSK and Propagation Study on 30 meters 
(PropNet anchor freq= 10.1395 USB PSK +1500 and 30m PSK call 
freq=10.140 USB).  This event will be the weekend of October 6th  7th 
(z 10/6/07 -Sat until 2359z 10/7/07 -Sun).  Any station welcome to 
participate be it a PropNet PSK Beacon (tx  rx) or a PropNet `lurker 
mode' (rx only).  SWL stations or others not wanting to be a beacon (tx 
 rx)  please note PropNet has `lurker mode' (rx only) function so 
anyone can participate.  Please go here and download and try PropNet 
and get on 30 meters October 6th  7th:

http://www.propnet.org/
http://www.n7yg.net/propnetpsk/main.html
http://www.n7yg.net/propnetpsk/download.html
http://www.n7yg.net/propnetpsk/faq.html

de kb9umt Don – promoting 30 meter digital activity (30m our only low 
power digital band)
http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/30meterPSKGroup/
http://www.30meterdigital.com




Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

2007-09-29 Thread Rick
I am convinced that the MIL-STD-188-110A and similar high speed 8PSK2400 
modes are legal on the voice/image portions of the bands. Being a fairly 
conservative type person, my plan is to contact the FCC and get a better 
read out.

In fact, I am working on a request for a response from FCC on several 
digital issues that I think should be examined. If anyone has a specific 
item that they would like me to ask, please contact me or suggest 
something on this group.

Some wanted me to not ask certain questions, but it seems that it is 
better to ask and be told no, than to do nothing and find out later that 
you could have been doing something legally all along.

I do want to ask about how they view the operation of automatic stations 
that do not listen before transmitting, particularly the ALE sounding 
and calling and the various mail systems.

73,

Rick, KV9U


Andrew O'Brien wrote:
 So, Rick...am I correct in assuming RFSM is legal in the USA if you
 got to the image sub-bands ?


   


Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

2007-09-29 Thread Rick
The speeds look similar to Pactor 3 if the S/N ratios are as high as 
they seem to be. By the time you reach 15 dB S/N P3 should be close to 
maxing out at 2722 bps uncompressed, therefore throughput of around 5000 
bps or 5000 wpm at maximum.

The MIL-STD-188-110A (older) specification has speeds up to 4800 bps.

The MIL-STD-188-110B (3G) specification adds speeds up to 9600 bps.

The STANAG 4539 specifications have three waveforms include three levels:
- a very robust low speed 75 bps that uses the STANAG 4415 PSK data 
modem waveform
- a medium speed MIL-STD-188-110B waveform
- a high speed waveform from MIL-STD-188-110B, Appendix C, providing 
3200 to 12800 bps

There are others including a QAM modem approach

(Reference my ALE Protocols and Terms document on the hfdec yahoogroup 
site for more details).

Overall it sounds pretty exciting to me as I know how well 1000 bps 
worked with SCAMP and I was quite surprised and pleased how well it 
worked with good signals.

It will be interesting for you to provide us with more information with 
the weaker signals, especially those below zero dB S/N since that is the 
where the difficulty lies.

73,

Rick, KV9U

Les Keppie wrote:

 I DONT THINK YOU LOOKED AT THE FILE SIZES AND THE TRANSFER TIMES
 OF THE FILES LISTED BELOW   READ ALL OF BELOW THROUGH
 FOR FILE SIZES AND TIMES TAKEN(Copied from previous email)

 Connecting to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
 RFSM-8000, version 0.508, user license: BETA-TESTER - 29/09/2007 - 
 11:19:09 AM
 Maximum supported connection speed - 8000 bit/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
 Connected to 'TEST4' - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
 'TEST4' accept FTP-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
 'TEST4' accept MAIL-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
 Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
 29/09/2007 - 11:20:10 AM
 File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 173 sec, average 
 speed 1322 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:23:20 AM
 Receiving file 'ATT00023.jpg', size 39781 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
 29/09/2007 - 11:24:18 AM
 File 'ATT00023.jpg' received succesfully, all time 259 sec, average 
 speed 1225 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:28:55 AM
 Receiving file 'ATT00011.jpg', size 16126 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
 29/09/2007 - 11:29:40 AM
 File 'ATT00011.jpg' received succesfully, all time 45 sec, average speed 
 2846 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:30:42 AM
 Receiving file 'ATT00020.jpg', size 35064 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
 29/09/2007 - 11:31:37 AM
 File 'ATT00020.jpg' received succesfully, all time 257 sec, average 
 speed 1090 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:11 AM
 'TEST4' request to read download directory 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT'... - 
 29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
 Request for sending file 'filelist' to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
 Sending file 'filelist', size 643 bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 
 11:36:29 AM
 File 'filelist' sended succesfully, all time 14 sec, average speed 350 
 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:44 AM
 'TEST4' request to get file 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT\#70726153230- de 
 VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:47 AM
 Request for sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' to 
 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:48 AM
 Sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg', size 67971 
 bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:38:09 AM
 File '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' sended succesfully, all 
 time 405 sec, average speed 1342 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:44:54 AM
 Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
 29/09/2007 - 11:45:36 AM
 File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 90 sec, average speed 
 2531 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:47:24 AM
 Receiving file 'ATT00035.jpg', size 32482 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
 29/09/2007 - 11:48:12 AM
 File 'ATT00035.jpg' received succesfully, all time 117 sec, average 
 speed 2214 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:50:26 AM
 Receiving file 'Hi-Q Hat + Hot Rodz addition.JPG', size 1089463 bytes, 
 from 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:51:39 AM

   


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Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

2007-09-29 Thread Les Keppie
Howard Brown wrote:
 Les, can you comment on Rick's question about PTT via CAT?
 
 I know that RFSM2400 keys my PTT via my Rigblaster but I 
 guess Rick wants it to key the rig via the data port???
 
 Howard K5HB
 
Some Kenwood models already catered for - and there is a user defined 
setup for other radios
Dmitry does not have the various parameters for keying Yaesu and Icom
radios at this time but I am very certain if someone were to send him 
this information he would soon put it in the current program
In an earlier email I did ask if anyone could send him the information 
for both Yaesu and Icom radios he would put it in the program for
Ptt on and off

This is an evolving program and to quote him from the webpage

 Current version is 0.508(beta). (In reference to RFSM8000)

 Program is not available for all yet, but will be very soon – in 
October/November 2007.

 We will respectfully accept any suggestions about new features from 
all (e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]).

I do think this program will be quite a good rival for Pactor 3
in the registered form - and also a good addition to anyones
data capabilities in the Freeware form

Les VK2DSG


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[digitalradio] See previous post

2007-09-29 Thread Les Keppie
Hi All
Sorry - forgot to put this bit in
de les




'TEST1' complete current part of file, new part: 2 - 30/09/2007 - 1:34:59 PM
File 'AERO 101.JPG' received succesfully, all time 495 sec, average 
speed 4123 bits/sec - 30/09/2007 - 1:35:50 PM
Disconnected from 'TEST1' - 30/09/2007 - 1:36:06 PM