[digitalradio] GAREC 2008 Friedrichshafen EmCommm Meeting
GAREC 2008 Friedrichshafen EmComm Meeting Agenda http://www.darc.de/referate/ausland/new/HR2008/GAREC_2008_080618.pdf Note: Thursday - 14.45 “D-Star – an Advanced Technology in Emergency Communications” by Joachim Berns, DL1YBL GAREC 2008 Agenda Friedrichshafen.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
[digitalradio] Re: New Hams and New Digital Technology
Dave, AA6YQ wrote, The amateur radio's community rapidly adopted PSK31 once panoramic reception on soundcard-equipped PCs became available. When the dogs don't like the dogfood, its a mistake to blame the dogs... Dave, A more accurate ham radio dogfood analogy would go like this: I went to feed the puppies and a pack of old wolves attacked me along the way. I ended up in the hospital, and the starving puppies were eaten by the wolves. Let's face it, the majority of ham radio is still stuck in the mid 20th Century. Simply put, PSK31 is a flavor of RTTY: same keyboarding concept, but weaker signals. Adding an esoteric feature like your example of panoramic reception software to spice up an old recipe is cute. But, it isn't a significantly different method of operation... still RTTY :) But, to see this as a mode or software creation issue, is missing the point totally. The real issue is not what digital modes we operate or bring out or what features are in the software we use, or how existing hams are using modes. The important thing is: How we can change what has heretofore been considered socially acceptable in the ham community: bad public attitudes toward creative new and useful technology paradigms. A blatant example was what we saw with abolition of morse testing. If the old morse test wasn't enough to scare away the first generation of computer-raised youngsters, then the next generation of web kids was turned off by the vitriol spewed by those who fought to keep ham radio locked in the 19th Century. After ham radio stupidly shot ourselves in that foot, we sat back and allowed a huge and vicious attack on Winlink and Echolink. There went the next wave of youngsters. This situation can only be changed by operators who are not afraid to stand up to those who display such sour attitudes in public. Until this kind of change happens, prospective new hams who are growing up totally connected by RF with WiFi, webfones in their pockets and Bluetooth in their ear, will see ham radio as a dead end or an irrelevant old folks pastime... they WILL go elsewhere to be creative or have fun or learn about RF technology. 73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA
RE: [digitalradio] Re: New Hams and New Digital Technology
Well said Bonnie. I came to ham radio late in life as it were. I was first licensed in 2001 and upgraded last year with end of Morse testing. Frankly I'd like to get the code down to a usable level but a small problem with hear dyslectic make it difficult and frustrating. I well know the feeling generated by the vitriol of the folks who fought the changes, fortunately within the club I belong to it hasn't been real prevalent and new hams are welcomed regardless of their level. Further efforts are made to help all f us along. And as to the digital radio part. Some time ago I was attempting to work Pitcairn Island on 20M BPSK31. John was working split up about 500 kHz on the waterfall and was clearly stating so in his calls. I the fairly new no code general understood this somehow the two guys with the AA6 calls couldn't seem to figure it out and every time I'd start an exchange one of them would call right on top of Pitcairn. New did make a successful 2 way with John as I think it got fed up and shut down as I wasn't able to see him again either evening inspite of a good band opening. So it goes and we go on still looking for the elusive ones. 73's, Curt Curt Givens KC8STE, AAR5VR Army MARS Earthdog and Special Programs Director GCDOC/GCAC Dayton, OH Registering lawful Americans who possess a gun to stop armed criminals, is like registering virgins to stop prostitution. -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of expeditionradio Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 9:12 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: New Hams and New Digital Technology Dave, AA6YQ wrote, The amateur radio's community rapidly adopted PSK31 once panoramic reception on soundcard-equipped PCs became available. When the dogs don't like the dogfood, its a mistake to blame the dogs... Dave, A more accurate ham radio dogfood analogy would go like this: I went to feed the puppies and a pack of old wolves attacked me along the way. I ended up in the hospital, and the starving puppies were eaten by the wolves. Let's face it, the majority of ham radio is still stuck in the mid 20th Century. Simply put, PSK31 is a flavor of RTTY: same keyboarding concept, but weaker signals. Adding an esoteric feature like your example of panoramic reception software to spice up an old recipe is cute. But, it isn't a significantly different method of operation... still RTTY :) But, to see this as a mode or software creation issue, is missing the point totally. The real issue is not what digital modes we operate or bring out or what features are in the software we use, or how existing hams are using modes. The important thing is: How we can change what has heretofore been considered socially acceptable in the ham community: bad public attitudes toward creative new and useful technology paradigms. A blatant example was what we saw with abolition of morse testing. If the old morse test wasn't enough to scare away the first generation of computer-raised youngsters, then the next generation of web kids was turned off by the vitriol spewed by those who fought to keep ham radio locked in the 19th Century. After ham radio stupidly shot ourselves in that foot, we sat back and allowed a huge and vicious attack on Winlink and Echolink. There went the next wave of youngsters. This situation can only be changed by operators who are not afraid to stand up to those who display such sour attitudes in public. Until this kind of change happens, prospective new hams who are growing up totally connected by RF with WiFi, webfones in their pockets and Bluetooth in their ear, will see ham radio as a dead end or an irrelevant old folks pastime... they WILL go elsewhere to be creative or have fun or learn about RF technology. 73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Check our other Yahoo Groups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup Yahoo! Groups Links ___ No viruses found in this incoming message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5 http://www.iolo.com ___ No viruses found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5 http://www.iolo.com
[digitalradio] Re: New Hams and New Digital Technology
AA6YQ comments below --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, expeditionradio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, AA6YQ wrote, The amateur radio's community rapidly adopted PSK31 once panoramic reception on soundcard-equipped PCs became available. When the dogs don't like the dogfood, its a mistake to blame the dogs... A more accurate ham radio dogfood analogy would go like this: I went to feed the puppies and a pack of old wolves attacked me along the way. I ended up in the hospital, and the starving puppies were eaten by the wolves. Most innovative new ideas are vigorously attacked, Bonnie -- unless they are so obviously flawed or irrelevant that they are just ignored. In the domain of engineering, these attacks are an essential part of the process by initial concepts become pragmatic solutions. The successful innovator not only tolerates such criticism, he or she actively solicits it. In today's web 2.0 speak, this is the wisdom of crowds; 50 years ago, it was if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Let's face it, the majority of ham radio is still stuck in the mid 20th Century. Simply put, PSK31 is a flavor of RTTY: same keyboarding concept, but weaker signals. Adding an esoteric feature like your example of panoramic reception software to spice up an old recipe is cute. But, it isn't a significantly different method of operation... still RTTY :) This paragraph exposes a passel of personal prejudices, Bonnie. It also contains a solid helping of guilt by association, reminiscent of Professor Howard Hill's warning against the game of Pool which starts with P which rhymes with T which stands for Trouble. Just because PSK31 offers real-time keyboard-to-keyboard QSOs doesn't mean that its users are stuck in the 1950s any more than the use of cellphones for real-time voice communication means that most of the world's population is stuck in the 1920s. Your dismisal of panoramic reception as cute misses a critical point. Peter G3PLX's initial PSK31 implementations -- the first of which required special purpose hardware, and the second of which ran on a PC but was difficult to use -- achieved little in the way of adoption. It was the addition of panoramic reception that pushed PSK31 past the tipping point of broadscale adoption. Would the addition of panoramic reception to RTTY have pushed RTTY into broad scale usage? Probably not (we can discuss this on another thread, if there's interest). The non-linear positive results generated from an effective implementation of just the right ideas are sought after in many domains; the Douglas DC3 aircraft is a oft-cited example of the same effect in aeronautics. Anyone interested in the acceptance of innovative new ideas for broad acceptance by the amateur radio community would be well served to understand this effect, rather than write off an essential ingredient as cute. But, to see this as a mode or software creation issue, is missing the point totally. The real issue is not what digital modes we operate or bring out or what features are in the software we use, or how existing hams are using modes. The important thing is: How we can change what has heretofore been considered socially acceptable in the ham community: bad public attitudes toward creative new and useful technology paradigms. You mistake criticism of new ideas for bad attitude. The rapid adoption of PSK31 by the amateur community proves that it presents no impenetrable obstacles to the uptake of good ideas and useful technologies when implemented in a useable manner. However, bad ideas and flaws in good ideas will be mercilessly exposed, -- as they must be if the process of innovation is to succeed. A blatant example was what we saw with abolition of morse testing. If the old morse test wasn't enough to scare away the first generation of computer-raised youngsters, then the next generation of web kids was turned off by the vitriol spewed by those who fought to keep ham radio locked in the 19th Century. Yes, wistfullness can be a problem. Normally this dies off with each generation of users, but licensing requirements can prolong the agony by an extra generation. It means that new innovations must be incrementally more useful and valuable to overcome generational friction. PSK met this challenge, and SDR appears to be well on its way. Hand-wringing over the fact that it isn't as easy as it ought to be is a distraction from the work at hand. After ham radio stupidly shot ourselves in that foot, we sat back and allowed a huge and vicious attack on Winlink and Echolink. There went the next wave of youngsters. WinLink was and is attacked on solid technical grounds: its unattended stations transmit on frequencies already in use, interfering with ongoing QSOs. The defense of WinLink has been a perfect example of anti-innovative behavior -- rather than acknowledge the problems and correct them, its advocates
[digitalradio] Digital Voice Net in Progress
All, Just a reminder that the FDMDV digital voice net takes place every Saturday and Sunday at 1800z on 14236.0 KHz. Mel, K0PFX is net control. The net is still in progress as of 1915z; usually lasts a few hours. There's DV activity after 00:00z as well so look for us on the same frequency. Regards, Tony, K2MO Kings Park, NY
RE: [digitalradio] Re: New Hams and New Digital Technology
HEAR HEAR! Gil, W0MN http://webpages.charter.net/gbaron N 44.082147 W 92.513085 1050' EN34rb Hierro Candente, Batir de repente -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Bernstein Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:48 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: New Hams and New Digital Technology AA6YQ comments below --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, expeditionradio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, AA6YQ wrote, The amateur radio's community rapidly adopted PSK31 once panoramic reception on soundcard-equipped PCs became available. When the dogs don't like the dogfood, its a mistake to blame the dogs... A more accurate ham radio dogfood analogy would go like this: I went to feed the puppies and a pack of old wolves attacked me along the way. I ended up in the hospital, and the starving puppies were eaten by the wolves. Most innovative new ideas are vigorously attacked, Bonnie -- unless they are so obviously flawed or irrelevant that they are just ignored. In the domain of engineering, these attacks are an essential part of the process by initial concepts become pragmatic solutions. The successful innovator not only tolerates such criticism, he or she actively solicits it. In today's web 2.0 speak, this is the wisdom of crowds; 50 years ago, it was if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Let's face it, the majority of ham radio is still stuck in the mid 20th Century. Simply put, PSK31 is a flavor of RTTY: same keyboarding concept, but weaker signals. Adding an esoteric feature like your example of panoramic reception software to spice up an old recipe is cute. But, it isn't a significantly different method of operation... still RTTY :) This paragraph exposes a passel of personal prejudices, Bonnie. It also contains a solid helping of guilt by association, reminiscent of Professor Howard Hill's warning against the game of Pool which starts with P which rhymes with T which stands for Trouble. Just because PSK31 offers real-time keyboard-to-keyboard QSOs doesn't mean that its users are stuck in the 1950s any more than the use of cellphones for real-time voice communication means that most of the world's population is stuck in the 1920s. Your dismisal of panoramic reception as cute misses a critical point. Peter G3PLX's initial PSK31 implementations -- the first of which required special purpose hardware, and the second of which ran on a PC but was difficult to use -- achieved little in the way of adoption. It was the addition of panoramic reception that pushed PSK31 past the tipping point of broadscale adoption. Would the addition of panoramic reception to RTTY have pushed RTTY into broad scale usage? Probably not (we can discuss this on another thread, if there's interest). The non-linear positive results generated from an effective implementation of just the right ideas are sought after in many domains; the Douglas DC3 aircraft is a oft-cited example of the same effect in aeronautics. Anyone interested in the acceptance of innovative new ideas for broad acceptance by the amateur radio community would be well served to understand this effect, rather than write off an essential ingredient as cute. But, to see this as a mode or software creation issue, is missing the point totally. The real issue is not what digital modes we operate or bring out or what features are in the software we use, or how existing hams are using modes. The important thing is: How we can change what has heretofore been considered socially acceptable in the ham community: bad public attitudes toward creative new and useful technology paradigms. You mistake criticism of new ideas for bad attitude. The rapid adoption of PSK31 by the amateur community proves that it presents no impenetrable obstacles to the uptake of good ideas and useful technologies when implemented in a useable manner. However, bad ideas and flaws in good ideas will be mercilessly exposed, -- as they must be if the process of innovation is to succeed. A blatant example was what we saw with abolition of morse testing. If the old morse test wasn't enough to scare away the first generation of computer-raised youngsters, then the next generation of web kids was turned off by the vitriol spewed by those who fought to keep ham radio locked in the 19th Century. Yes, wistfullness can be a problem. Normally this dies off with each generation of users, but licensing requirements can prolong the agony by an extra generation. It means that new innovations must be incrementally more useful and valuable to overcome generational friction. PSK met this challenge, and SDR appears to be well on its way. Hand-wringing over the fact that it isn't as easy as it ought to be is a distraction from the work at
Re: [digitalradio] Re: New Hams and New Digital Technology
As usual, Dave puts the correct perspective to advancing technology. Ask yourself why others would attack what many radio amateurs enjoy doing and even go so far as to use extreme name calling and personal attacks of hams don't happen to support their vision or beliefs of what should be a successful technology. Amateur radio will survive primarily by keeping the older technologies available as well as adding some new ones that prove themselves. Sometimes new things are good enough to attract others, but most of the time they are not (ACSSB). Sometimes they are wildly successful for a time but are preempted by other forces (packet radio). Some of the major mode breakthroughs with radio technology, have been the ability to use CW (rather than damped waves), SSB rather than DSB AM, low cost FM phone technologies which work well with repeaters, etc. They may never become obsolete as long as they fulfill the needs of the users and can do the job better than anything else. There have been advances made with melding computers with radio and although may not always be directly related to amateur radio, are still considered a part of it: IRLP, Echolink, internet e-mail, even discussions such as we are having at this moment in time in this very group. But not very many are interested in such specialty areas, often only a few percent of the radio amateur population. A few may prefer eSSB, digital voice, older AM modulation, but then a much larger group prefers casual VHF FM repeater operation, contesting, DXing, and other of the myriad forms of the hobby. And it is mostly a hobby or else few would be interested or active. Even for those, such as myself, who focus more on how can we improve emergency communications. We are a tiny subset of the whole. Clearly, PSK31 and RTTY are the preferred digital HF modes at this time. Anyone who attacks others for enjoying those activities is acting in a very inappropriate manner and one has to ask if they have some underlying personal problems or behaviors. We all know people who act in this manner and we tend to shun them as they marginalize themselves and paint themselves into a ever narrowing corner of what could have been a wide open space. No matter how much we might want to, we can not force others to see our way of operation or our particular choice of technology. We can only attempt to improve something to the point that others take notice and see the value in what we are doing. Most new concepts are flawed and fall by the wayside. There are only a few that can withstand serious scrutiny and the test of time and prove their worth. If you are involved in something new, ask yourself everyday: Am I behaving in an appropriate manner to my fellow hams? Am I listening attentively to any criticisms, recommendations, requests for help, offered solutions, etc.? And am I trying to build a community, or do I want to control others? 73, Rick, KV9U Dave Bernstein wrote: The amateur radio's community rapidly adopted PSK31 once panoramic reception on soundcard-equipped PCs became available. Given this rapid transition, it seems unlikley that the amateur community then shifted gears en amsse and refused to consider all subsequent advances in digital mode technology. The more likely explanation is that, from the community's perspective, none of the subsequent advances in digital mode technolgy have to this point offered sufficient new appeal/value to motivate a broad transition from PSK31. When the dogs don't like the dogfood, its a mistake to blame the dogs... 73, Dave, AA6YQ
