[digitalradio] Contest EPC BPSK125 contest this weekend.
Check out the rules and for the EPC contest this weekend. Russell = IN GOD WE TRUST ! = Russell Blair (NC5O) Skype-Russell.Blair Hell Field #300 DRCC #55 30m Dig-group #693
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
Hi John, At the time I was listening to the frequency there were RTTY stations on either side and very close, so did not attempt a connection. Were you using ALE400 or FAE400? My understanding is that FAE is faster than the ALE with plain text due to compression which I don't think is available in ALE400. I have never quite understood the purpose of the ALE modes unless perhaps it was used for a group (non ARQ) transmission. But in such a case wouldn't you want to use a better mode than ALE which is an older technology from the 1970's and developed before the advent of sound card modes and computer access. When I have tried the wide 141A (ALE/FAE 2000) modes, they have not been as practical to use for the conditions you normally find on the lower bands. FAE2000 might work reasonably well on higher bands with low ISI/Doppler. The speed is several times faster, but the bandwidth is about 5 times wider and less robust. The reasons that I am so impressed with FAE400: - relatively narrow (keeping under 500 Hz) to meet the IARU band plan bandwidths designated for the RTTY/Data portion of 80 meters - has compression which can greatly increase speed - first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set - first sound card mode employing memory ARQ The only other mode that may have some of these characteristics is Winmor, but that has not been released yet. What has been surprising to me is that few hams have any interest in using these connected modes, especially for public service/emergency use. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and QRM. Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning . John VE5MU
RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
technically we were using FAE400 mode and FAE2000 modes, in ARQ as opposed to general broadcast (unproto) mode. I agree with you on the 400ARQ mode, and the feature I appreciate most is the ability to send mail to an unattended station, having determined that the unattended station can hear you, using QRZ,HFN or a user defined net call. This is about the only time that the ALE function is useful is doing what it was meant to do: establish a link. More than a few hams have taken the approach that ALE is a legitimate mode for passing traffic. Unless traffic is limited to a one line message, there doesn't seem to be much point. What I would like to propose is that we pick an 80M frequency (not 3596, since it seems to be the main frequency for RTTY broadcasts and activity) and try to pass a few messages around the country, using 400. Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible store and forward functions as well John VE5MU Hi John, At the time I was listening to the frequency there were RTTY stations on either side and very close, so did not attempt a connection. Were you using ALE400 or FAE400? My understanding is that FAE is faster than the ALE with plain text due to compression which I don't think is available in ALE400. I have never quite understood the purpose of the ALE modes unless perhaps it was used for a group (non ARQ) transmission. But in such a case wouldn't you want to use a better mode than ALE which is an older technology from the 1970's and developed before the advent of sound card modes and computer access. When I have tried the wide 141A (ALE/FAE 2000) modes, they have not been as practical to use for the conditions you normally find on the lower bands. FAE2000 might work reasonably well on higher bands with low ISI/Doppler. The speed is several times faster, but the bandwidth is about 5 times wider and less robust. The reasons that I am so impressed with FAE400: - relatively narrow (keeping under 500 Hz) to meet the IARU band plan bandwidths designated for the RTTY/Data portion of 80 meters - has compression which can greatly increase speed - first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set - first sound card mode employing memory ARQ The only other mode that may have some of these characteristics is Winmor, but that has not been released yet. What has been surprising to me is that few hams have any interest in using these connected modes, especially for public service/emergency use. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and QRM. Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning . John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using MultiPSK as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail application. Does anyone find this to be wrong? The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or actually, re-done... For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS. Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting. I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer if the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem. Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, i.e., KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc 73, Jose, CO2JA --- John Bradley escribió: Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible “store and forward” functions as well John VE5MU VI Conferencia Internacional de Energía Renovable, Ahorro de Energía y Educación Energética 9 - 12 de Junio 2009, Palacio de las Convenciones ...Por una cultura energética sustentable www.ciercuba.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
So how would we go about using FBB or JNOS? JNOS has appeal since it can gateway to the internet, a desirable feature for emergency comms John VE5MU I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using MultiPSK as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail application. Does anyone find this to be wrong? The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or actually, re-done... For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS. Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting. I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer if the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem. Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, i.e., KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc 73, Jose, CO2JA --- John Bradley escribió: Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible store and forward functions as well John VE5MU VI Conferencia Internacional de Energía Renovable, Ahorro de Energía y Educación Energética 9 - 12 de Junio 2009, Palacio de las Convenciones ...Por una cultura energética sustentable www.ciercuba.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links
[digitalradio] Further testing with ALE400
Since W1AW is great on both info and QRM , frequencies have been moved. So as of 2200Z Friday, VE5GPM on 3592.0 USB FAE400 VE5MU on 7092.0 USB FAE400 Will be on these frequencies for the next 12 hours, please try a connect or HFN or QRZ sounding John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
Hello to all, has compression which can greatly increase speed The compressed alphabet derives from the IZ8BLY MFSK Varicode. The main modifications are a priority given to accented small characters (much used in French, Spanish...). The gain is about 50 % in English. - first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set: So as to be able to transmit accented characters and also non-latin characters (Cyrillic ones for example), - first sound card mode employing memory ARQ It's really indispensable for an ARQ protocol because it permits to drastically decrease the number of retries (each new frame retry is equivalent to an increase of 3 dB on the minimum S/N with a limit which is the impossibility to detect the header). Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible store and forward functions as well I have added to my wishes list the possibility to add an ARQ FAE repeater. I will see if it is possible (I'm not sure as it is quite complex). Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting. Seems also difficult (due to the translation of protocols), but another solution would be to use the TCP/IP link (RX/TX) and add a new protocol layer (not simple either). I could extend the functions from the TCP/IP control. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Rick W mrf...@frontiernet.net To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a Hi John, At the time I was listening to the frequency there were RTTY stations on either side and very close, so did not attempt a connection. Were you using ALE400 or FAE400? My understanding is that FAE is faster than the ALE with plain text due to compression which I don't think is available in ALE400. I have never quite understood the purpose of the ALE modes unless perhaps it was used for a group (non ARQ) transmission. But in such a case wouldn't you want to use a better mode than ALE which is an older technology from the 1970's and developed before the advent of sound card modes and computer access. When I have tried the wide 141A (ALE/FAE 2000) modes, they have not been as practical to use for the conditions you normally find on the lower bands. FAE2000 might work reasonably well on higher bands with low ISI/Doppler. The speed is several times faster, but the bandwidth is about 5 times wider and less robust. The reasons that I am so impressed with FAE400: - relatively narrow (keeping under 500 Hz) to meet the IARU band plan bandwidths designated for the RTTY/Data portion of 80 meters - has compression which can greatly increase speed - first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set - first sound card mode employing memory ARQ The only other mode that may have some of these characteristics is Winmor, but that has not been released yet. What has been surprising to me is that few hams have any interest in using these connected modes, especially for public service/emergency use. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and QRM. Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning . John VE5MU Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Further testing with ALE400
At 0415Z was not able to connect on 40 meters (too close) but with about 10 watts connected to VE5GPM on 80 meters. I sent some chat text and then tried to send a file but no throughput, even when going to 50 watts. Wondering if something locked up there? I reconnected at about 0430Z and am currently in process of sending a file about 1400 bytes long, but it is taking a long time as there are some retries (memory ARQ possibly working to our advantage?). Finished after about 8 minutes. With most sound card modes, it would have been very difficult to expect accurate transfer of a file of this size. Any other connections this evening and successful file transfers? 73, Rick, KV9U SW Wisconsin John Bradley wrote: Since W1AW is great on both info and QRM , frequencies have been moved. So as of 2200Z Friday, VE5GPM on 3592.0 USB FAE400 VE5MU on 7092.0 USB FAE400 Will be on these frequencies for the next 12 hours, please try a connect or HFN or QRZ sounding John VE5MU No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1925 - Release Date: 1/30/2009 7:37 AM
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
When I used to be on another digital group (I think it may have been one of the TAPR lists?), Maiko was able to get certain hardware/firmware to work with his development of JNOS2. Although JNOS is very theoretical to me, I wonder if it could it be set up with the mode of your choice (within limits) that will work well with sound cards? Considering the tremendous effort that has gone into some of these technologies, and the little use they seem to have gotten, it suggests to me that they do not meet the needs of a target user. Developing for proprietary hardware/firmware does not seem like the direction to take, but developing for sound card applications does seem like the most practical way to create something that may reach critical mass with enough users. I have believed for some time that we need a framework that would allow bolting on of different sound card modes for low cost and accurate data transfer between stations and even into the internet on an ad hoc basis so that you can set it up whenever you have the need and wherever an internet connection might be available for public service/emergency traffic. By itself, the old MIL-STD-188-141A protocol is a fairly old technology (1970's), and would not normally be something that we would intentionally use anymore. The FAE modified form has proven itself to me and several of us who have been experimenting with it, since it is more robust and yet reasonably fast with the slower baud rate and narrower bandwidth of FAE400. Are any developers looking at the Winmor specifications and its approach to not only error free data transfer, but having adaptive modes that can work under varying conditions? 73, Rick, KV9U Jose A. Amador wrote: I almost always used JNOS with KISS interfaces, it is a natural way of using it. TNC's under MSDOS, and also thru pipes under Linux with net2kiss (I would have to go back to the manual to remember a few details). It could be interfaced with the BPQ switch, so FBB, JNOS, the BPQ switch could share the same KISS TNC. I was not succesful to interface JNOS to MultiPSK using TCPIP, and have not tried yet using the KISS interface, but I see that others have had quite a bit of success with it. Could that be extended to ALE? Right now I don't really know, but looks interesting to find out. I am not up to date with all that Maiko has added to JNOS 2.0 73, Jose, CO2JA --- John Bradley wrote: So how would we go about using FBB or JNOS? JNOS has appeal since it can gateway to the internet, a desirable feature for emergency comms John VE5MU I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using MultiPSK as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail application. Does anyone find this to be wrong? The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or actually, re-done... For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS. Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting. I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer if the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem. Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, i.e., KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc 73, Jose, CO2JA
