[digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
My reading of the message is that Morse code is authorized NOT mandated. It seems a reasonable decision for a organization often dependent on volunteers, if they want to use it.. let'em. MARS will continue to use MT63, ALE, PSK, and many other digital modes. Andy K3UK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't this just precious. . The move is divisive, and obviously geared toward attrition. Navy seems to be leading the charge Chief NAVMARMARS managed to honor tradition, and managed to make policy move back toward the stone age. Nice tantrum. What a comfort. I will sleep better at night. For those that haven't followed the media campaign, MARS is moving toward a Customer-Based Emergency Communications organization. Since they are now involved directly with TSA and other Gov't ESFs, it seems only logical that they should try to pass their customer's traffic in CW. After all, it is more common than Latin, and all of their customers will certainly be able to copy. Further note, I don't think he really views CW as a last resort. . David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sholto Fisher Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:16 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] CW - last resort? Here's some food for thought for digimode only ops. DE NNN0ASA ZUJ CMB06-08: RR NOALL DE NNN0ASA 050 R 292200Z MAY 2008 FM CHNAVMARCORMARS WILLIAMSBURG VA TO ALNAVMARCORMARS INFO ZEN/CHIEF ARMY MARS FT HUACHUCA AZ ZEN/CHIEF AIR FORCE MARS SCOTT AFB IL BT UNCLAS SUBJ: CHNAVMARCORMARS BCST 06-08 A. DRAFT RADIOTELEGRAPH PROCEDURES 1. WHEN I ASSUMED THE CHIEF, NAVMARCORMARS POSITION IN NOVEMBER, 1997, WE WERE MORE THAN A YEAR INTO THE DOD MANDATED BAN ON CW ON MARS FREQUENCIES. A. SINCE THAT TIME THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION HAS, IN STEPS, ELIMINATED THE MORSE CODE REQUIREMENT FOR AN AMATEUR LICENSE. ALL EMERGENCY COMMUNICATORS KNOW THAT WHEN VOICE AND OTHER DIGITAL MODES SLOW TO A CRAWL OR BECOME UNUSABLE, CW CAN STILL BE USED. B. I REMEMBER THE NORTHEAST ICE STORM SHORTLY AFTER I BECAME CHIEF AND THE UNNECESSARILY LENGTHY EFFORT BY ALL OF SOUTHERN NEW ENGLAND TO RECEIVE ONE VOICE EEI FROM A NORTHERN NEW ENGLAND MEMBER WHOSE ANTENNA WAS COVERED IN ICE AND LYING ON THE GROUND. IT TOOK OVER AN HOUR WHEN CW COULD HAVE HANDLED IT IN A FEW MINUTES. C. AS MORE AND MORE OF OUR MEMBERS ENTER MARS WITH NO MORSE CODE EXPERIENCE, I AM AFRAID THAT WE WILL SOON LOSE THAT SKILL SET IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING. 2. IN VIEW OF THE ABOVE AND EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, AREA AND REGION DIRECTORS ARE AUTHORIZED TO ESTABLISH CW TRAINING AND TRAFFIC NETS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE AREAS AND REGIONS. ALL STATE DIRECTORS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO BEGIN CONDUCTING TRAINING IN CW ON THEIR TRAFFIC AND TRAINING NETS. 3. SINCE THE RADIOTELEGRAPH PROCEDURES WERE ELIMINATED BEFORE TEH PUBLICATION OF NTP 8(C), REF A WILL BE POSTED UNDER THE DOCUMENTS TAB ON THE NATIONAL WEB PAGE SOON. USE THESE DRAFT PROCEDURES UNTIL A FINAL TRI-SERVICE MARS PROCEDURE FOR RADIOTELEGRAPH IS DEVELOPED AND PROMULGATED. 4. MARS: TOGETHER WE CAN ACHIEVE ANYTHING. BT DE NNN0ASA QRU AR (taken from a post by K4OSO on the FISTS reflector) 73 Sholto KE7HPV.
Re: [digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
Amen, and hopefully someday soon, come into the 21st century by instituting digital voice, as well as the other digital modes currently used. Pax, Jim Dear W5LOG NNN0RKQ Andrew O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My reading of the message is that Morse code is authorized NOT mandated. It seems a reasonable decision for a organization often dependent on volunteers, if they want to use it.. let'em. MARS will continue to use MT63, ALE, PSK, and many other digital modes. Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
David, If you feel so inferior because you lack CW skills perhaps you should make the effort and develop them. Mocking someone for having something you do not is so very lame. 73, Charlie --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't this just precious. . The move is divisive, and obviously geared toward attrition. Navy seems to be leading the charge Chief NAVMARMARS managed to honor tradition, and managed to make policy move back toward the stone age. Nice tantrum. What a comfort. I will sleep better at night. For those that haven't followed the media campaign, MARS is moving toward a Customer-Based Emergency Communications organization. Since they are now involved directly with TSA and other Gov't ESFs, it seems only logical that they should try to pass their customer's traffic in CW. After all, it is more common than Latin, and all of their customers will certainly be able to copy. Further note, I don't think he really views CW as a last resort. . David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sholto Fisher Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:16 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] CW - last resort? Here's some food for thought for digimode only ops. DE NNN0ASA ZUJ CMB06-08: RR NOALL DE NNN0ASA 050 R 292200Z MAY 2008 FM CHNAVMARCORMARS WILLIAMSBURG VA TO ALNAVMARCORMARS INFO ZEN/CHIEF ARMY MARS FT HUACHUCA AZ ZEN/CHIEF AIR FORCE MARS SCOTT AFB IL snip
Re: [digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
I have to concur with Charlie. I did not see anything negative in the MARS reappraisal of CW. In fact, it seemed bizarre and counterproductive to me when they decided to not only drop CW, but to prohibit its use on MARS channels some years back! I do agree that there are almost no new hams who are willing to do the work necessary to become proficient with CW. Of all the classes I have taught over the years, mostly entry level Technician and more recently several General classes, I can not recall any of my students ever going on to learn CW. When I commented on this to our STM a year or so ago, he pointed out that while things were not going all that well with the Section Intrastate CW nets, the growth area was actually in the entry level CW nets. Back in the early 1980's when I got relicensed, I was quite active on the WNN (Wisconsin Novice Net) and WSSN (Wisconsin Slow Speed Net) and was even WSSN NCS for a year or so on Monday nights. We had about as many QNI then as now, so maybe there will be a few new replacements? Or maybe that is wishful thinking? Based on the comments by David, he does not seem to understand that CW really can get through when other modes can not, and that includes most of the digital modes.This is especially true if you consider the bandwidth used. And when you are in an emergency situation, you may have a telegraph key or can figure out a way to key the rig, but you may not have the computer necessary for most digital modes. There may be a few digital modes, that can compete with CW under extreme conditions and can operate with faster throughput. But there are very few traffic nets or emergency nets that seem to do this. None in our Section even though I have talked it up from time to time. The ARES leadership wants all digital to move to only Winlink 2000 so digital activity has not progressed well except perhaps in the more heavily populated areas. I can not even get new hams to operate machine CW, even though they have the privileges now to operate on 80/40/15/10. But then again, almost none of them will operate SSB or digital on 10 meters either:( 73, Rick, KV9U kb3co wrote: David, If you feel so inferior because you lack CW skills perhaps you should make the effort and develop them. Mocking someone for having something you do not is so very lame. 73, Charlie --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't this just precious. . The move is divisive, and obviously geared toward attrition. Navy seems to be leading the charge Chief NAVMARMARS managed to honor tradition, and managed to make policy move back toward the stone age. Nice tantrum. What a comfort. I will sleep better at night. For those that haven't followed the media campaign, MARS is moving toward a Customer-Based Emergency Communications organization. Since they are now involved directly with TSA and other Gov't ESFs, it seems only logical that they should try to pass their customer's traffic in CW. After all, it is more common than Latin, and all of their customers will certainly be able to copy. Further note, I don't think he really views CW as a last resort. . David KD4NUE
Re: [digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:07:17 -0400, Paul L Schmidt, K9PS [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Andrew O'Brien wrote: My reading of the message is that Morse code is authorized NOT mandated. It seems a reasonable decision for a organization often dependent on volunteers, if they want to use it.. let'em. MARS will continue to use MT63, ALE, PSK, and many other digital modes. Andy K3UK That's exactly the correct reading. Another tool for the toolbox. Digital modes (ranging in complexity from WL2K and ALE down to PSK31 and RTTY) will carry the bulk of the traffic. But if the computer goes down and propagation stinks, CW certainly beats nothing. I guess it's time for us all to learn how to build spark gap transmitters, just in case. -- Jack Hamilton Sacramento, California [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
UK members of this list are already constructing pigeon lofts. Simon Brown, HB9DRV -- From: Jack Hamilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] I guess it's time for us all to learn how to build spark gap transmitters, just in case.
Re: [digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
Andrew O'Brien wrote: My reading of the message is that Morse code is authorized NOT mandated. It seems a reasonable decision for a organization often dependent on volunteers, if they want to use it.. let'em. MARS will continue to use MT63, ALE, PSK, and many other digital modes. Andy K3UK That's exactly the correct reading. Another tool for the toolbox. Digital modes (ranging in complexity from WL2K and ALE down to PSK31 and RTTY) will carry the bulk of the traffic. But if the computer goes down and propagation stinks, CW certainly beats nothing. - ps
Re: [digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
Very good Simon. Years ago we had racing pigeon's. To bad I still don't have the loft. Have a good day. George K1OLS PS I thing your program is great. UK members of this list are already constructing pigeon lofts. Simon Brown, HB9DRV -- From: Jack Hamilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] I guess it's time for us all to learn how to build spark gap transmitters, just in case. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Check our other Yahoo Groups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
Even when I have nothing against DV, people have to recognize that it is not a QRP activity. I see quite a few signals I can never decode because they do not exceed the threshold. FDMDV is not PSK31. 73, Jose, CO2JA --- Jim Dear wrote: Amen, and hopefully someday soon, come into the 21st century by instituting digital voice, as well as the other digital modes currently used. Pax, Jim Dear W5LOG NNN0RKQ
Re: [digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
Do not laugh. It could come to pass that we (mankind) will need to reinvent spark gap.Who knows what evil lurks in the minds Chuck AA5J At 02:39 PM 6/1/2008, Jack Hamilton wrote: On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:07:17 -0400, Paul L Schmidt, K9PS mailto:k9ps%40arrl.net[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Andrew O'Brien wrote: My reading of the message is that Morse code is authorized NOT mandated. It seems a reasonable decision for a organization often dependent on volunteers, if they want to use it.. let'em. MARS will continue to use MT63, ALE, PSK, and many other digital modes. Andy K3UK That's exactly the correct reading. Another tool for the toolbox. Digital modes (ranging in complexity from WL2K and ALE down to PSK31 and RTTY) will carry the bulk of the traffic. But if the computer goes down and propagation stinks, CW certainly beats nothing. I guess it's time for us all to learn how to build spark gap transmitters, just in case. -- Jack Hamilton Sacramento, California mailto:kd6ttl%40arrl.net[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
Could be true Chuck. I guess to take it just a step further, we need to ask Simon to start looking into writing another mode into his great software to decode/operate the hammers to hit the trees like the old natives in the jungle do. Oops, somebody would have to go cut down trees and the huggers ain't going to like that, so I guess the knocking sounds will be vertically polarized due to striking standing trees. Oh wait! This even predates CW and was just as effective . hmm Should we find possible scenarios to justify this mode now too? HiHiHi John KE5HAM --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Mayfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do not laugh. It could come to pass that we (mankind) will need to reinvent spark gap.Who knows what evil lurks in the minds Chuck AA5J At 02:39 PM 6/1/2008, Jack Hamilton wrote: On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:07:17 -0400, Paul L Schmidt, K9PS mailto:k9ps%40arrl.net[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Andrew O'Brien wrote: My reading of the message is that Morse code is authorized NOT mandated. It seems a reasonable decision for a organization often dependent on volunteers, if they want to use it.. let'em. MARS will continue to use MT63, ALE, PSK, and many other digital modes. Andy K3UK That's exactly the correct reading. Another tool for the toolbox. Digital modes (ranging in complexity from WL2K and ALE down to PSK31 and RTTY) will carry the bulk of the traffic. But if the computer goes down and propagation stinks, CW certainly beats nothing. I guess it's time for us all to learn how to build spark gap transmitters, just in case. -- Jack Hamilton Sacramento, California mailto:kd6ttl%40arrl.net[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [digitalradio] Re: CW - last resort?
Go to Africa and learn the drums. They work too and are effective over a large area. At 03:28 PM 6/1/2008, you wrote: Could be true Chuck. I guess to take it just a step further, we need to ask Simon to start looking into writing another mode into his great software to decode/operate the hammers to hit the trees like the old natives in the jungle do. Oops, somebody would have to go cut down trees and the huggers ain't going to like that, so I guess the knocking sounds will be vertically polarized due to striking standing trees. Oh wait! This even predates CW and was just as effective . hmm Should we find possible scenarios to justify this mode now too? HiHiHi John KE5HAM --- In mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.comdigitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Mayfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do not laugh. It could come to pass that we (mankind) will need to reinvent spark gap.Who knows what evil lurks in the minds Chuck AA5J At 02:39 PM 6/1/2008, Jack Hamilton wrote: On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:07:17 -0400, Paul L Schmidt, K9PS mailto:k9ps%40arrl.net[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Andrew O'Brien wrote: My reading of the message is that Morse code is authorized NOT mandated. It seems a reasonable decision for a organization often dependent on volunteers, if they want to use it.. let'em. MARS will continue to use MT63, ALE, PSK, and many other digital modes. Andy K3UK That's exactly the correct reading. Another tool for the toolbox. Digital modes (ranging in complexity from WL2K and ALE down to PSK31 and RTTY) will carry the bulk of the traffic. But if the computer goes down and propagation stinks, CW certainly beats nothing. I guess it's time for us all to learn how to build spark gap transmitters, just in case. -- Jack Hamilton Sacramento, California mailto:kd6ttl%40arrl.net[EMAIL PROTECTED]
