[digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Vojtech Bubnik" wrote: > > Hi Ralph. > > The second or multiple received streams may be caused by a non-linearity > somewhere between his computer and your computer. It may be his sound card, > his TX, your RX or your sound card. Yes, I experienced it also. The "ghost" > signals are of much lower amplitude though, so they are easily recognized and > ignored. > > If I were you, I would first verify, whether you do not overdrive your sound > card. Secondly I would adjust attenuator to just get some slight atmospheric > noise in your receiver. This way you will maximize your receiver's dynamic > range. If you still get some ghost signals, it may be a good time to upgrade > your sound card. > > 73, Vojtech OK1IAK I agree with this. Nonlinearities in the audio stages can create multiple copies of the signal in the audio band. Nonlinearities in the RF stages would normally create copies of the signal at multiples of the RF frequency for a single tone signal. I understand that the Collins KWM-2 creates a CW signal by modulating the carrier with an audio tone. The frequency of the audio tone is set around 1700 Hz so harmonics caused by nonlinearity in the audio stages would be outside the audio band. With my TS-2000 many ghost signals can often be seen. Not only are frequency multiples of the signal seen but also a weak signal in the presence of a strong signal can often be seen equally spaced on the opposite side of the strong signal. I suspect this is due to the nonlinearities associated with quantization of the 12-bit A/D conversion. Even when a narrow bandwidth is selected, copies of the signal can be seen well outside the passband of the narrow filter. Ghost signals are seen much less frequently with my radios with analog filtering. Ed WB6YTE
[digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
I haven't seen the same station on more than one frequency, but I have seen the callsign listed twice on the SAME line in the DM780 SuperBrowser. To illustrate: Normal display: W2ABC X psk31 text line .. "Double" display; W2ABC W2ABC XX psk 31 text line .. I have observed this with both versions 4 and 5. 73 de Dave, NF2G
[digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
Hi Ralph. The second or multiple received streams may be caused by a non-linearity somewhere between his computer and your computer. It may be his sound card, his TX, your RX or your sound card. Yes, I experienced it also. The "ghost" signals are of much lower amplitude though, so they are easily recognized and ignored. If I were you, I would first verify, whether you do not overdrive your sound card. Secondly I would adjust attenuator to just get some slight atmospheric noise in your receiver. This way you will maximize your receiver's dynamic range. If you still get some ghost signals, it may be a good time to upgrade your sound card. 73, Vojtech OK1IAK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Lambert" wrote: > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew O'Brien" wrote: > > > > > > > > Let me try again, Sheesh ! Can you actually decode text from the same > > > station on two different parts of the waterfall? How far apart on your > > > waterfall are these "doubles" ? > > > > > > > > > First... Sorry if I offended, it wasn't the intent... > > I never had success with WinWarbler because of my sound issues (see my > previous thread) and because I am using a laptop for digital and I also > because couldn't fit all of the DXLab applications on the screen in a way > that made sense. > > I've seen the doubling 14.070.150 & 14.070.20 (this operator was in the US) > and today I saw one that was on both sides of the waterfall 14.070.15 and > 14.072.90 (this operator was from EU) I thought to myself this is odd > sohere I am once again. > > Yes, I was able to decode the text, and as far I as could tell they were the > same text at the same time. > > The reason for the question I thought somebody had figured out a way to take > over a freq to ensure that they made all the contacts. > > So it is safe for me to assume this not a natural occurrence and I am just > being paranoid (again) > > - Ralph (AJ4GR) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know they are doubles? > > > > > > > > > > I don't, that's why I was asking the question. Sheesh! > > > > > > - Ralph (AJ4GR) > > > > > >
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall [1 Attachment]
Look at the line at 14.070.80 & 14.072.10 Thanks a bunch - R On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 9:22 PM, mikea wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 01:07:12AM -, Ralph Lambert wrote: > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com , > "Andrew O'Brien" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Let me try again, Sheesh ! Can you actually decode text from the same > > > > station on two different parts of the waterfall? How far apart on > your > > > > waterfall are these "doubles" ? > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for you input. > > > > I was able to get a screen shot on the super browser. Where can I > post/send it. Not sure how big it is. Its a jpg so it shouldn't be to bad. > > > > Send it to me, and I'll put it on my website and post the URL to this > list. > > -- > Mike Andrews, W5EGO > mi...@mikea.ath.cx > Tired old sysadmin > > -- Ralph's Computer Services DELL, Lexmark, Vizio AJ4GR <><
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 01:07:12AM -, Ralph Lambert wrote: > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew O'Brien" wrote: > > > > > > > > Let me try again, Sheesh ! Can you actually decode text from the same > > > station on two different parts of the waterfall? How far apart on your > > > waterfall are these "doubles" ? > > > > > > > Thanks for you input. > > I was able to get a screen shot on the super browser. Where can I post/send > it. Not sure how big it is. Its a jpg so it shouldn't be to bad. > Send it to me, and I'll put it on my website and post the URL to this list. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
[digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew O'Brien" wrote: > > > > > Let me try again, Sheesh ! Can you actually decode text from the same > > station on two different parts of the waterfall? How far apart on your > > waterfall are these "doubles" ? > > > Thanks for you input. I was able to get a screen shot on the super browser. Where can I post/send it. Not sure how big it is. Its a jpg so it shouldn't be to bad. - Ralph (AJ4GR) > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know they are doubles? > > > > > > > I don't, that's why I was asking the question. Sheesh! > > > > - Ralph (AJ4GR) > > >
[digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew O'Brien" wrote: > > > > > Let me try again, Sheesh ! Can you actually decode text from the same > > station on two different parts of the waterfall? How far apart on your > > waterfall are these "doubles" ? > > > > First... Sorry if I offended, it wasn't the intent... I never had success with WinWarbler because of my sound issues (see my previous thread) and because I am using a laptop for digital and I also because couldn't fit all of the DXLab applications on the screen in a way that made sense. I've seen the doubling 14.070.150 & 14.070.20 (this operator was in the US) and today I saw one that was on both sides of the waterfall 14.070.15 and 14.072.90 (this operator was from EU) I thought to myself this is odd sohere I am once again. Yes, I was able to decode the text, and as far I as could tell they were the same text at the same time. The reason for the question I thought somebody had figured out a way to take over a freq to ensure that they made all the contacts. So it is safe for me to assume this not a natural occurrence and I am just being paranoid (again) - Ralph (AJ4GR) > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know they are doubles? > > > > > > > I don't, that's why I was asking the question. Sheesh! > > > > - Ralph (AJ4GR) > > >
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
> > Let me try again, Sheesh ! Can you actually decode text from the same > station on two different parts of the waterfall? How far apart on your > waterfall are these "doubles" ? > > > > > > > How do you know they are doubles? > > > > I don't, that's why I was asking the question. Sheesh! > > - Ralph (AJ4GR) >
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
If WinWarbler repeatedly decodes the same callsign on multiple frequencies, it compares signal strengths to identify the primary and suppresses the harmonics. Harmonics can be caused by stations generating PSK with modulated audio below 1500 Hz. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of Andrew O'Brien Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 7:40 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Lambert" wrote: > > Why do I sometimes see double entries for the same call sign in the > waterfall. Is this some one working split? It seems like it is a > duplex issue or am I way off the boat on this one? > > 73, Ralph (AJ4GR) > How do you know they are doubles? You can expect to see doubles if using multiple decode options like those listed as "stations heard" in Winwarbler or in the "panoramic" view in Multipsk. In regular decode for BPSK31 you can also see a "harmonic" every 1000 Hz if a station is transmitting with a badly over driven signal. You may simply be seeing other close by signals, or possibly mistaking the two parallel vertical lines normally seen in BPSK31. Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew O'Brien" wrote: > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Lambert" wrote: > > > > Why do I sometimes see double entries for the same call sign in the > > waterfall. Is this some one working split? It seems like it is a > > duplex issue or am I way off the boat on this one? > > > > 73, Ralph (AJ4GR) > > > > How do you know they are doubles? You can expect to see doubles if using > multiple decode options like those listed as "stations heard" in Winwarbler > or in the "panoramic" view in Multipsk. In regular decode for BPSK31 you can > also see a "harmonic" every 1000 Hz if a station is transmitting with a badly > over driven signal. You may simply be seeing other close by signals, or > possibly mistaking the two parallel vertical lines normally seen in BPSK31. > > Andy K3UK > I don't, that's why I was asking the question. Sheesh! - Ralph (AJ4GR)
[digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, mikea wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 07:08:36PM -, Ralph Lambert wrote: > > Why do I sometimes see double entries for the same call sign in the > > waterfall. Is this some one working split? It seems like it is a > > duplex issue or am I way off the boat on this one? > > What program are you running, Ralph? MixW? DigiPan? HRD? Other? > > -- > Mike Andrews, W5EGO > mi...@... > Tired old sysadmin > I am using DM 780 v.5 Beta and I was using the currant stable version of DM 780 I don't remember the build number but Itried to keep current. I vaguely remember seeing it on Fldigi (Linux). These are the to/three programs I had the most success with. - Ralph (AJ4GR)
[digitalradio] Re: Double Entries on Waterfall
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Lambert" wrote: > > Why do I sometimes see double entries for the same call sign in the > waterfall. Is this some one working split? It seems like it is a > duplex issue or am I way off the boat on this one? > > 73, Ralph (AJ4GR) > How do you know they are doubles? You can expect to see doubles if using multiple decode options like those listed as "stations heard" in Winwarbler or in the "panoramic" view in Multipsk. In regular decode for BPSK31 you can also see a "harmonic" every 1000 Hz if a station is transmitting with a badly over driven signal. You may simply be seeing other close by signals, or possibly mistaking the two parallel vertical lines normally seen in BPSK31. Andy K3UK
